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NARUTO CH. 619: A CURSED CLAN!

By: Cesc!

cecsHello Narutards, My name is Cesc (AKA HashiramaDaGod, akaItachiDaBaus). I am very excited to be writing this review. I have been visiting and commenting on here since 2009; I usually stay under the radar and have gone through a couple of aliases so you all probably never notice me. I have never written nor attempted to write anything like this before. All the writing I ever do is for assignments so this will be the first time I will ever write something for fun (and hopefully it won’t be the last). So let’s get started then shall we.

THE GOD OF SHINOBI!

Like every single one of you, I was pleasantly surprised that Kishi kicked off this chapter where 618 left off. How that small Uchiha shrine can contain all that Epicness is beyond me. Just look at this first page, I literally stayed on it for five minutes

Untitled1

The fourth great Kages are summoned and stand before the great snake king, and the emo Uchiha and his pets. Surprisingly, Untitled6Suigetsu is the first to speak, referring to Mega Magnum as the God of Shinobi. Tobimara quickly realizes what is going on and expresses his disgust at the situation while the god doesn’t seem to realize what is going on (despite the fact that he had been summoned before).  The third as well knew exactly what was going on as did the fourth whom seems to express some respect towards Snake King. So apparently, after having his hands taken away, Snake King spent his down time collecting scrolls, and doing research on lost clan secrets. And this is how he happened to come across the bypass to the death god seal. Meh I’ll buy it Kishi, and I suggest you all do and move on.

In this chapter, the fourth was as cool as we all expected, the third was as U7ntitledknowledgeable as we all know him to be, and the second wasn’t far off from what we expected. However, the First, the God of Shinobi was absolutely hilarious. I loved this guy when I had no idea what his personality was like; now that I do, I just love him even more. This guy’s personality just adds to his awesomeness in my opinion. It reminds me of certain goofy hero named Goku. He seems to have a care free attitude when it comes to the small mishaps in life, but nows how to handle shit when needed to.

Ok, let’s get serious!

Unti87tledOk I did not love this chapter solely because of the awesomeness the First brought, but also because of the information and secrets levealed by Tobirama. To be honest, I did not expect Tobirama to be the talkitive type, nor one to hush his brother like that. If anything, I was expecting the first’s personality to be more like what Tobirama’s is, with a mix of compassion. The truths finally start coming out when Sasuke begins his interview with the Kages, starting with the third, Sasuke seeked final confirmation that Itachi’s story was indeed true. I was glad Sasuke asked this question, because I know it must have been very hard for him to believe even after so many pople told him. But hearing it from the third, confirms it for us for as much it does for Sasuke. Itachi was truly something special, and the Leaf should not have let him go to waste like that.

Next question was for Tobirama, and his answer reveals plenty of new info and confirms many other speculations about the Uchiha. According to Tobirama, the Uchihas are a cursed clan. They are not cursed because the fight too hard, but because they love too hard. That just confused the shit out of me. Here, for 618 chapters we have been led to believe the Uchihas are born for the fight, and now we are told they actually love and care more than the Senju. Needless to say, I loved Suigetsu’s response to this, “so what’s the beef? Can’t you guys just get along…since both clans are filled with all this lovey-dovey crap…?” Well aparently it is this strong feelings towards love and friendship that creates the problem. You see, when an Uchiha loves, they not only fall head over heel in love but get overly attached gf crazy in love (ya lame). So if you can imagine how bat sh*t crazy things will get when you break up with overly attached gf, you’ll have a small idea of how crazy sh*t gets when an Uchiha loses his love.

Tobirama!

Tobirama realises this dark side of the Uchiha and sort to keep it in check. Even though he had the best of intentions for the Unt87itledvillage, as Snake King stated, Tobirama went about solving it the wrong way. His attempts to make things better only succeded in making them worse. He saw the danger the Uchiha’s posed to the survival of the village and so tried prevent it by isolating them. He felt Hashirama’s methods of dealing with the situation was not effective, seeing his brother as being too compasionate towards the Uchiha. To me Hashi had the right idea. If Tobirama knew that all the Uchiha’s wanted was love, then when did he treat them as such, why not love them and let them learn to love him like his brother tried to do.

Tobirama goes on to reveal further info about the Uchiha and their sharingan:

  • Sharingan evolves when the Uchiha lose love, and it gets transfomed into hatred that consumes them.
  • Contrary to common belief, Madara did in fact love his brother dearly.

Qquestion: (Some of you asked in the “It’s out!”).

  1. If the tomoes mean hatred and despair, why did Sasuke and Tobi activate theirs while trying to protect their friends?
    1. My best guess is that they felt as if they were losing their friends, and the love they had for said friends turned into hatred for the person trying to take them away. The Mangekyo part however is consistant with Tobirama’s statement.
    2. This is my question, answer if you can. Danzo mirrored Tobirama ideals, yet Tobirama chose did not choose him as Hokage, instead he went for the old man whom reflected his brother’s ideals more?
  • So this wraps up my first ever review, I enjoyed doing it and I hope you guys like it. But please, give me some feed back on how I can improve.
  • I know I missed some points, but you see how long this post is already?
  • Cheers!!
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118 Responses

  1. @?????I’m about that Naruto life, lol.

    Uchiha power rankings:

    1. BIG MAGNUM (enough said)

    2. 44 MAGNUM (BIG MAGNUM’S little brother, enough said.)

    3. Shisui ( Simple fact of his genjutsu being the most powerful of all Uchiha.)

    4. Itachi (Quiet. Powerful. Intellectual.)

    5. Sauke (Itachi’s little brother, all I could think of for him.)

    I really hope BIG MAGNUM and MEGA MAGNUM meet up.

    BIG MAGNUM: “Common Obito the 1st just came back. We’re headed back to the hole in the ground and our big tree for another 100 years. Maybe he’ll be gone by then…..”

    Obito: “Yes sir bawse, before we go can I kick Kakashi in the nuts and run?”

    BIG MAGNUM: “Make it fast…..I got some Sunade clones growing on the tree back home, and they are definitely ABOUT THAT LIFE!!!!!!”

    MEGA MAGNUM: “Ninja you still ain’t dead……..wait a minute……is that my ninja Oonoki the fence sitter over there??? IT IS!!!!!!! What’s the business my NINJA???!!!!!!!”

    Posted this on it’s out but wanted to add this:

    Great review. Keep up the good work

  2. “and now we are told they actually love and care more than the Uchiha”

    mistake there, meant to say “Senju”, not “Uchiha.”
    couple other mistakes in there (forgetting “as” and saying “when” instead of “why”) but I’m you can those out.

  3. @cesc I agree with your question. It would not make sense that Tobirama would choose someone who did not uphold his ideals, especially since Senjus seem to have high regard for history and their reputation.To be more precise, this situation would not make sense only if Tobirama made the selection himself. However, even though it may not be clear in the manga, the Naruto anime seems to suggest that the Hiruzen’s appointment was the joint decision of the First and Second. Decide for yourself after looking back at the Third’s fight against Orochimaru and Danzo’s fight against Sasuke. In general, if my idea is true, then Tobirama may have compromised with Hashirama to maintain his sense of fairness. In addition, he may have also done it to show his respect toward his brother.I hope that answers your question.

    Also, to your point about the Uchiha, the Second’s revelations explain why all of them have such intense personalities. They even clarify why the rigid, stickler Kakashi suddenly relaxed and took things in stride. The chakra from Obito’s sharingan must have evened Kakashi’s temperament.
    Generally, with every new detail about the Uchiha,it becomes easier to accept Obito’s rapid rise to power and as well as his quick descent into darkness. No matter how shocked we may have been when Tobi was first unmasked, these new insights demonstrate Kishi thoughtfulness in going through with this choice. I think I like the Uchiha a little more now.

  4. Sorry @cesc I misread the byline. That answer is for you.

  5. @Naruto Tutor, don’t worry about it I corrected it for you.

  6. Thanks.

  7. This revelation still doesnt help make obitos rise in power (even though really this rise in power isnt that much since the fourth didnt really have a problem dealing with him) any better to take. Ninja like sasuke and itachi lost family/very close friends (in itachis case his affection for shisui probably would rival that of sasukes affection for itachi as itachi considered shisui to be like a brother to him) while obito lost a girl he rarely talked to . Im sorry that still doesnt compare no matter how u slice it.
    Imo the uchiha rankings are slightly different;

    1) madara
    2) itachi
    3) madaras brother
    4) shisui
    5) sasuke

    I say itachi only cause frankly we dont know enough about madaras bro while everyone from obito to the third hokage have called itachi truly gifted and one of the greatest/smartest shinobi around and are amazed by him. Shisui as great as his genjutsu was, we simply dont hear the same praise from ppl like we heard about itachi and honestly when ppl thought itachi killed him they didnt seem shocked that he was able to but rather that he would kill his best friend.

  8. Seriously there are just too many comparisons I can make between this manga and star wars, and the information the 2nd gave about the uchihas power just adds more an more.

    @token, it seems to me everyone talks about shisuis eyes an genjutsu alone almost as much they talk about all of itachis traits an abilities. Everyone was shitting bricks at the Kage meeting just out of suspicion of danzo having one of his eyes, which winded up being true, an kabutos was drooling over the possibility of obtaining the other eye from itachi.

    So I guess that means madaras brother willingly gave him his eyes.

    Wait hold up, are they in an uchiha place? Why would that clan have something like this, unless this was originally an uzumaki spot, and at some point was covered up?

  9. Btw, that picture of kakashi scares me……..

  10. You guys are forgetting about Obito…

    1) Madara.
    2) Obito. Kamui is just the ultimate hax move.
    3) Shisui
    4) Madara’s Brother
    5) Itachi
    6) Sasuke

  11. @?? u r saying obito is above itachi? man what are u basing this off of lol what exactly has obito done in any battle? kamui isnt hax and itachi would counter that easily. Obito doesnt even crack top 5 uchiha much less number 2. And shisui’s eye yes was amazing but they talk only about his eye not necessarily his battle prowess. Itachi was intelligent and was considered to be one of the best users of genjutsu as well as an excellent tactician. I just dont think we know enough about shushi to give him any ranking honestly.

  12. obito isnt that powerful a ninja even with the rinnengan and sharingan (the strongest eyes in all of naruto)… all he does is use kamui repeatedly thats not exactly smart fighting or power.

  13. Hey, remember when kabuto was one of the main villians in this manga?

    Yea, me neither.

  14. Wow, I want to know how some of you could possibly think that Madara’s little brother (among others) is stronger than Sasuke lol. We haven’t even seen him in a fight and you say he’s greater than another Uchiha that possesses the EMS, something that has only been done once in the entire history of the clan…you are either being biased or trolling…Face it, EMS has no cost of using + perfect eyesight. That means the sky is the limit for Madara and Sasuke, the only thing that factors in is chakra. Unlike the normal MS users, who do have a cost per use + bad eyesight, which gets worse every time you use it.

  15. If the Second’s explanation doesn’t explain why obito got strong enough to control Kurama and challenge the Fourth, then at least it shows the extent the Uchihas’ passion for others and their willingness to preserve those bonds. Looking at it in this way, I find that the circumstances of a bond might be irrelevant. What matters more is the interest each person sustains because of that bond. See, whatever their relationship was, the fact is that Obito thought enough of his time with Rin to unlock his MS, and, even more, to sign up for Madara’s insanely complex scheme. I understand that it may not always agree with common sense., but emotions are truly incomparable. Two people will feel things differently, even when their choices are virtually the same. It does not make sense; simple as that.

  16. @7warlord
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v42/c386/5.html
    madara and izuna were pretty much equals. the only reason i put madara and itachi above izuna is cause we have seen what these two can do full force and izuna we never saw him be able to control the nine tails etc. but if he and madara were equal even earlier than madara ems than izuna > sasuke
    @naruto tutor anyone can challenge someone that is far superior to them lol. Obito was severly outclassed that whole time and honestly who has obito even beaten? He hasnt really fought anyone cept for konan and even she would have won except for that whole uchiha hack. It should make sense… maybe if kishi made them grow closer or something it would make sense to compare losing her to kakashi to what sasuke and them went thru but fact is kishi did a horrible job of showing any kind of close connection between the two and because of that that is why ppl have a problem with obito.

  17. Good one cesc for your first.
    But what I liked about Bobs and Jdoggs reviews were they weren´t just stating the obvious rather than focused on the points which were controversial. Even some ppl don´t agree with their opinion it started a discussion. So maybe for your next review just focus on the critical points but other than that it was good. I said it before maybe it´s possible that we have more than one writer per week, why not compare notes

  18. @token
    Ok. We have not seen Madara in combat pre-EMS. We have hardly seen him in combat when he had EMS activated. The only Uchiha techs we have seen him use are Genjustu, Fire techs, and Susanoo. We have never seen him in a situation where he was forced to go all out only using EMS. I guess you can say Perfect Susanoo, but he wasn’t even trying then. You bringing up the fact that Izuna was the same level of pre-EMS Madara doesn’t prove anything and you know it lol. You are just putting Sasuke on the bottom of the barrel because you hate him. That is biased.

  19. @ultimate, I see what you mean, I did a whole lot of summarizing here and not enough analyzing. Thanks for the feedback, I will definitely keep this in mind for next week’s chapter.

  20. i would love to see an interaction between tobirama and BIG MAGNUM lol even a little arguement between those two could wreck the

  21. So warlord are u saying that sasuke now is stronger than madara pre ems? Remember so far aside from perfect susanno we haven’t really seen any new tech from ems. This could change but ems so far has just been able to allow the user to spam their eye tech without blindness. Yea I hate sasuke but everything I’ve mentioned isn’t false; sasuke right now has not shown us anything different from before. Could this change sure but RIGHT NOW sasuke and even madara didnt really gain new tech from ems rather they just r now able to use ms tech whenever without fear of blindness. Not only that but by your logic sasuke with ems is stronger than itachi… After all itachi doesn’t have ems so sasuke must be superior right?

  22. Good review! I enjoyed reading it. Much less complaining than the last editor so it was in comparison much more delightful to read. Keep it up! Thank you

  23. Though I disagree with what you said about Perfect Susanoo, I’ll leave it alone until there’s more proof. But as to me thinking Sasuke is stronger than Itachi, I won’t deny that. Just look at the techs that Sasuke can perform: Chidori/Chidori variations, Summonings, and Amaterastu combined with Susanoo, and lets not forget about Kirin. I thought everyone knew EMS Sasuke is stronger than MS Itachi (in their hearts), it’s just that Itachi is a better strategist and a Genjustu prodigy. However, is Sasuke also not a strategist. He gets emotional yes, but he does think, and when he does, he that much more deadlier. Even though Itach’s illusions are nearly flawless, they won’t last long against a fellow mangekyou user, especially an eternal mangekyou user. Itachi has the Sword of Tostuka, but Sasuke’s Susanoo can not only negate that, but outlast it well. Remember, Sasuke’s Susanoo changed when he got EMS. It’s more powerful and deadlier now. Itachi doesn’t have EMS. When he uses MS, he feel more pain in his body, not to mention the blindness effect. So you ask me if EMS Sasuke is superior to MS Itachi? I say yes.

  24. That first sentence is worded wrong: I agree with what you said about the so-called other EMS’s abilities besides Perfect Susanoo, so I’ll leave that alone until there’s more proof.

  25. Umm r u forgetting the jutsu itachi used against Kabuto? Man the fact u say sasuke is more powerful than itachi… I can’t even combat tht lol and I’m the biased one :-/ love how sasuke was able to attack and hit itachi with Kirin and chidori…. I wait he tried that and he couldn’t hot itachi… Hmmm well at least sasuke can hit itachi with a Amaterasu arrow….. O wait itachi has the ultimate swd and shield combo for susanno! Well sasuke can get itachi in a genjutsu…. I wait itachi is also master of genjutsu and tactician! And u said WHEN sasuke thinks lol itachi never stops he’s always ready. Lol I won’t even bother arguing with u… It’s clear your a sasuke supporter and we all know how difficult and pointless it is to argue with one of those :-/

  26. …and this is what happens when a Sasuke supporter meets a Sasuke hater…You can’t even finish the argument before one of them stomps off into the sunset lol

  27. “For someone who doesn’t speak pain, you sound very fluent ”

    Props to anyone who know who said this line in anime.

  28. I think it was made very obvious why Tobirama chose Hashirama over Danzo: Hashirama was more than willing to sacrifice himself for the village while Danzo hesitated. Tobirama likely valued courage and selflessness over ideological similarities, so he chose the more courageous and selfless one over the one whom he agreed with more.

  29. @ unknown, it’s really easy if you just Google the quote, lol

  30. Ok Itachi was a genius in everything and anything he did. Sasuke may have more fire power/endurance, but 9/10 Itachi will beat him
    To this day we have not seen Itachi pushed to his limits. He has never been forced to use anything more/less than what he needs to defeat his enemy. But just because we have not seen him make a summon dies not mean he is incapable of it. He has just not been in a fight yet that justifies the use of a summon. And everytime he has appeared in a fight, he introduces an attack/jutsu never b4 seen.
    Kakashi vs Itachi – Itachi reveals Tsukuyomi.
    Sasuke vs Itachi – Itachi reveals amaterasu and susano’o.
    Pain vs Itachi – Itachi reveals energy blast from susano’o.
    Kabuto vs Itachi – Itachi reveals Izanami.

    Point is, we have no idea where Itachi’s limits lie. What he can and can’t do. As for Sasuke, all we don’t know is what the 4th power is from EMS. But then again, Itachi is the one that told Sasuke about that, and at that time he was straight up lying about nearly everything, who’s to say that he did not lie about that?

    Where is BLEACH!!!!

  31. @Nemo, great answer. But I think you meant Sarutobi, not Hashirama. Hashi is the first homage, aka the god of shinobi.

  32. @ cesc, sorry, I meant to say Hiruzen. I just got the 2 Hs mixed up

  33. Thank u cesc u said it how I wanted to but I managed to ramble lol

  34. Good first review…

  35. Just a few thoughts on each character who was there in this chapter.

    Sasuke: His Brother Itachi must of known about the trick to the Eyes because he kept on poking Sasuke to get him angry and resent him so Sasuke would be as powerful as possible. Lets Remember that Sasuke In the entirety of the Uchiha clan has the biggest emotional mountain to over come due to the fact his entire family and clan where decimated. so does this beg the question does Sasuke have the most amount of special Chakra now? If we refer to this pic http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sasuke_Uchiha?file=Sasuke_Cold_Chakra.jpg

    this shows how big and strong his chakra power is and how the sadness/hatred is becoming of him because of all the trials and tribulations he has had to face.

    Orochimaru: Now lets remember orochimaru is a snaked for a reason. why would he help sasuke if it wasnt to benefit himself? he hasnt simply become a Samaritan. to go to all the effort is for a reason. maybe he wants to know all this information too.
    Why would they go to the uchiha Shrine? they dont need to go there. it is out the way i admit but there must be a significance to go there.

    Orochimaru’s Vessel is now a low yield clone of Hashirama Senju so that must be a good thing right? Can he now perform certain Wood jutsus? i guess he doesnt know how the Jutsu’s or maybe he does after reading about all those ancient scrolls.

    Orochimaru now has his Arms back which means that he is at least on par with the 3rd, sarutobi when he was in his old age plus he has all the knowledge of kabuto’s research and spying so he has any tactical advantage that brings. Also can go into sage mode. on top of that he has the 4 hokages who are arguably the best and strongest Shinobi in history. So Orochimaru right now has a pretty good advantage over most people.

    Hashirama: he strikes me to be the person who is like a man walking quietly carrying a big stick: he is reserved he approaches everything with caution. others may run there mouth’s but Hashirama knows when to say his piece. he hasnt got to where he is now without knowing exactly what to do.

    Tobirama: the classic shoot first ask questions later type of leader. he is very knowledgeable though obviously knowing all about the sasuke and having allot of high yield justsu’s under his belt. But Orochi was very correct in stating he should of kept Edo Tensei to his grave. such a gung ho way of life. something made him think that sarutobi was the better option though? in all his pro collateral nature he chose the guy most like his big brother instead of him? something tell me we will find out soon.

    Minato: the odd man out? he and sarutobi have been clean up crew to try and stop this problem that Tobirama has created between the uchiha and the rest of the village. Lets hope he can work his genius to get out of this Edo Tensei because if he cant it falls down to Tobirama.

    Sarutobi: he has had to be the person that has had to deal with the most amount of shit in the village i think. he has done it well all things considered but i do feel sorry for him.

  36. NInjas who obtain the title of kage don’t tend to live very long and sarutobi did it for 35 years at least, taking into account his period of retirement before minato died. The only other dude who held that position that long possibly is onoki, but I don’t remember when he became kage.

    I agree with Matt about orochimaru, it’s really out of sheer curiosity of what sasuke plans to do and what the kages have to say that he hasn’t proceeded to start fucking ninjas up. I’m surprised kabuto didn’t know of this location and take advantage of it, sure it could be as simple as orochimaru keeping this a secret from him, but didn’t kabuto pretty much stayed to his hip the whole time after the fight with sarutobi? Also, didn’t Kabuto went through all of orochimaru’s research to learn the edo technique and collecting samples from a bunch of ninjas all around the ninja world?

  37. Great first review man, keep it coming.

    As for your question of why the 3rd over Danzo, I think it’s actually pretty simple. I think the 2nd, despite treating him like a little kid it seems, respected the leader and the man his brother was above all else. I think he understood that his brother was a leader who the people needed, who loved them, and would do anything for them. I think he saw this in Sarutobi, a guy who was trained by the first and inherited his ideals. While Danzo was much like the 2nd, the 2nd knows that the first was a better leader for the village than himself, or else he would’ve been the first hokage, not Hashirama.

    Oh, and does anyone else miss Goku quite a bit? I had some good times with that guy when I was younger.

  38. I love the chapter about danzo and sarutobi! the quote is amazing “You are the leaves bathing in the sun I am the roots that grow in the dark” really does show you do need both light and dark for there to be balance in the world.

  39. If the Uchiha’s were such cursed clan, destined to become evil, driven by hate, consumed by sorrow, then how come Itachi, a pure Uchiha, still managed to remain good, fueld by his sense of duty, and love towards Sasuke? Isn’t this a plothole?

    Itachi is in a way a Mini version of the SotSp. So what happened with his brain?

  40. @ impaler
    Itachi was no different. You think he annilated his whole clan, including his parents, simply because some old geezers told him too?
    Itachi just loved and hated differently then his clan. Even though it wouldve probably be in the villages best interest to have killed sasuke back then as well, he spared him out of love. Also he wanted to die a villain and to be killed by sasukes hand, and to die without sasuke or anyone else knowing the truth.Why? Because he wanted sasuke to be the salvation of his clan. Itachi knew about the history of his clan. And he was the one who revealed their plan to start a rebellion and take over the village, which led to the leaders decision. And instead of trying to find a way to mend the bridges between them, he killed them off instead. Maybe he did try but saw it as completely hopeless seeing his Clan’s arrogance. All that tells me that his actions were not only driven by duty and love, but also by hatred, for his clan.

  41. isn’t having your beliefs and emotions pulled by two very different ideals would be more chaotic, than, say, putting all your emotional rage on one entity out of sheer principle?

  42. I agree Impaler, he loved the village more then he loved his clan as he knew the Clans history and where it would lead too. like it said in the chapter Itachi was different from an early age with a Hokage like wisdom and chose to stop the impending war before any more blood was shed. that is for the love of the Village not his clan with exception his Brother. you saw his fellow Uchiha tried to boss him about when he was being investigated by the disappearance shisui that they where arrogant in there power. Obviously Tobirama’s fanned the Uchiha flames (see what i did there…) by exiles them to the outskirts of the leaf village as well which isnt there fault.

  43. For me the biggest surprise of all was the statement of Orochimaru that he won´t use the Hokages to destroy the Leaf. As Mattmaru stated for me the biggest question is what the intention of Oro really is. You don´t summon 4 of the strongest shinobi just so they can talk to Sasuke. Oro obtained already the cells of Hashirama and I believe that give him not only some sort of abiltiy to create some wood, he had already strong healing abilities but now it´s going over the roof. Sasuke is so blind and full of hatred that he let that happen without saying one word, if Oro goes on with this rate he might be a stronger threat that Naruto itself and Sasuke let that all happen. Think about it first the extraction of Kabuto, than his arms, than the 1st cells now the Hokages. If he wants he could controll them all. I would say he is already stronger than Sasuke at the moment.

    @jdogg just because cesc made the review doesn´t mean that you state your opinion. I would like to hear your opinion about this chapter even it is not the review

  44. And about the topic who is the stronger shinobi Sasuke or Itachi. Itachi would wipe the floor with Sasu with it wasn´t his brother. Tactically he is above all other ninja, for example the crow he gave Naruto he planned this a year or two before everything were even happened. About the power, maybe Sasuke gained some power but if Itachi would perform Izanagi on Sasuke on the first place we would have zombie Sasuke now.

  45. Would itachi even use izanagi or Izanami against Sasuke? First of all, Sasuke already knows the mechanics of izanagi, since Danzo abused it against him. I doubt any ninja in existence had to counter it as many times as Sasuke had to. Even if itachi could’ve done a better job performing the technique he would only be able to hold it temporary, and at max, only twice. That’s a huge risk against someone who experienced it firsthand and knows its weaknesses. Same for Izanami. It seems to me Itachi used that technique only as a last resort to subdue kabuto without killing him, and he had luxury of being dead, so he could spam it more than if he was alive. It’s been proving countless times its always a risk of using genjutsu against a uchiha, And a uchiha as strong as Sasuke, who we’ve seen already to break some of the strongest genjutsus around? I doubt itachi be crazy enough to try, becuase if he fails, it’d be game over.

    For itachi, he would have to rely on his skills and strategy, Which he has an obvious advantage on, to beat Sasuke. At this point, It’d stupid to try and match Sasuke in terms of power.

  46. oh shit, it just hits me that itachi wouldn’t even be able to use izanagi since he doesn’t have senju DNA.

  47. testing, testing……..

  48. Not a bad chapter. It was all good until I read the worst line in the entire series:

    Sasuke: “I’m neither pure nor am I a child.”

    Okay so maybe it wasn’t the “worst” line but still….it sounded so off to me.

    Oh well other than that, I enjoyed it. I like how Kish came up with the whole Uchiha curse love hate thing. However it seems like again the “Uchiha” are the main issue of Naruto.

    Oh well. One day Naruto it will all be about you. One day…..

  49. @Cesc: BTW great review. You just like all the other authors here have a unique style. I do agree with ultimate though; it would be great to hear your thoughts on the chapters. Other than that keep em coming.

  50. @unknown we can discuss this to the end of time who is stronger at the current state but if Itachi wouldn´t hold back the first encounter they fought seriously Sasuke would be history. Besides he has one of the strongest weapon of all, Sasonoo with the sword which can seal souls. Tell me how would you dodge this, besides the fact that Itachi is superior on a tactical base, even if it´s just a slighty lead.

  51. @ ultimate
    for the sake of argument, lets say sasuke would actually do nothing but stand there with his susanno unleashed while being attacked by the Sword of Totsuka. Whether or not it’ll work will depend on Sasuke’s chakra reserves, stamina, and where itachi strikes. Susanno is a direct materialization of the user’s chakra. Even if it gets destroyed, the user can unleash another susanno as long as he has enough chakra to do so. So Even if itachi sucessfully seal Sasuke’s susanno with the sword, he’d only seal the amount of chakra sasuke puts into his susanno. Itachi would have to hit sasuke directly in order to be the most effective.

    As far as itachi’s yata mirror, it nullifies most techniques becasue its endowed with all the nature transformations. However, what about Advanced chakra natures? Or, in susannos case, a mere materialization of chakra? Sasuke’s attacks with susanno doesn’t use chakra natures, unless he wants em to in order to boost its power.

    As far as Sasuke’s susanno goes, it naturally has a basic advantage over itachi’s in terms of offense and defense( EMS did more than just remove the blinding side effect of the sharingan; also not counting itachi’s yata mirror), and Sasuke would having an easier time using Susanno because his chakra reserves and his control over his sharingan are much better than itachi. Sasuke’s long range attack is so fast that its nearly impossible to dodge without a speed comparable to minato, naruto, and space time ninjutsus. However, could it bypass yata mirror? There’s no evidence it would or wouldn’t since the attacks of susanno are different. Also the susanno’s defense may be great, but it’s not inpenetratble.

    I still think itachi would defeat sasuke, but it’d take everything he’s got to do so.

  52. As long you think Itachi would beat Sasuke, we are on the same side. You can argue with rest.

  53. Bahhh…… no fun!!!! (-_-)

  54. Sasuke has better control over his MS than Itachi? NO!! Better control over Amaterasu perhaps just as Itachi has better control over Tsukuyomi. We haven’t seen Yata’s mirror so we have no idea what it’s limits are so it is better to keep it off the table. Itachi though will always be superior to Sasuke.

  55. Intellectually? sure.
    In combat? Not for long if he hasn’t already.

  56. Somebody probably touched upon this, but relationship between snake boy and sasuke have changed considerably. At first it was nothing more than a Michael Jackson child predator like(forgive me Michael) relationship, snake boy giving him candy then attempts to have his way with him, now within several chaptors progressed into a relationship similar to naruto an jiraya, in a twisted way. If you think about, even orochimaru did more for sasuke than naruto ever accomplish with him, even brought sasuke back to the village an have yet to destroy one building, even though hours before he was ready to eat, fuck, and kill everything that moves. Sasuke really does owe a lot to snake boy for getting this far, even if he decides to still steal his his body in the future.

  57. @unknown the scary part about itachi is that we have ever seen him be forced into a corner yet like we have for sasuke in many of his battles. And even if u consider susanno as itachis last ditch effort against sasuke that was a hell of a last effort as itachi literally was going blind and dying from a fatal disease all while purposefully NOT trying to kill sasuke. Talk about variables in a fight! And everyone says sasuke is a more powerful fighter…. Where has this been shown? Itachi himself has been known to be proficient in fire Justus and in terms of genjutsu easily outclasses sasuke and he even has access to izanami. The only advantage sasuke has is Kirin/chidori and frankly those were useless against sasuke. Until we see more from sasuke I’m not sure that even now he has passed itachi… On the contrary itachi up to this point has shown to be inferior in almost very way and he has yet to unleash a all out desperate assault like what sasuke specializes in

  58. Superior*

  59. @ token
    ” and he has yet to unleash an all out desperate assault like what sasuke specializes in ”
    “The scary part about itachi is that we have never seen bin being forced into a corner yet like we have for sasuke in many of his battles.”

    If the fights against nagato and kabuto Didn’t happen, I would’ve agreed with you on these two points. The exact opposite happen here especially the fight with kabuto. I saw itachi Trying everything he can to subdue kabuto so he can reverse the edo, and sasuke simply following his league and trying not go against itachi s wishes an just kill the guy. We ‘ve hardly learned anything from sasuke ‘s new powers outside of the side effects being nearly gone (blood leakage still exist but it seems the pain and the blindness have all but extinguished.) Yet we have see Itachi used nearly all of his skills and introduces a few new ones he already knew so by now I have pretty good idea of his skills by now. And if using a jutsu like izanami as the last jutsu he performs (with a nasty side effect that puts MS to shame) wasn’t a sign of desperation, I don’t what is.

    Whenever I doubt sasukes skills with genjutsu, I always go back to the fight against ransom. The way he used tsukuyomi to counter his izangi (which is far superior) was pure genius an skill. Itachi is surperior to sasuke in genjutsu but that proves he’s no slouch either.

  60. @token I meant danzo. Damn dude are you writing on a handheld like me? I saw so many mistakes in your writing, and I had to proofread mine three times before posting an I still made mistakes.

  61. I’m doing way too much writing here, an I bate writing. Keep this up an I may have start posting myself.

  62. Against Kabuto itachi used izanami cause 1) Kabuto was too powerful for normal genjutsu with his snake mode and 2) once again itachi couldn’t kill him. There has not been one opponent that itachi ever tried or wanted to kill. If itachi wanted someone dead they were as good as finished (except for Tobi but let’s be real Tobi would have been except for that horrible warping thing he does which seems cowardly for a uchiha but I digress). And yes I am typing on a phone lol

  63. Lol, this manga is so terrible.

    Kishi wanks Itachi so hard he made Hiruzen look like an idiot. The sad thing is everything would’ve been perfect if Hiruzen had just made 7 year old Itachi Hokage. The Uchiha don’t feel marginalized, Madara can come home, Naruto’s parents aren’t in a position to die as the village doesn’t lose strength, and this wunderkind uberkage solos the world and brings about peace, since he was clearly already strong enough to beat anyone! Not that he’d have to, since everyone would be happy to lose to him, like how his parents gleefully let him kill them.

    Fuck this series.

  64. Missed you too kisu 🙂

  65. @ kisu, I actually kinda see where you’re coming from. I liked it better when Itachi was a villain. I also liked it better when Pein was a villain and Obito was a hero and Tobi was an enigma. I wouldn’t go as far as to say “fuck this series” but I do think the characters have a tendency to become less interesting the more we know about them.

  66. Kishi messed this war pretty much up, but at the end it got a lot better and if he continues on this level it might come to a good end.

    @kizu I know deep inside you, you still love this series. Especially when your fav character Sasu will get more spot light the next 50 chapters

  67. Itachis storyline for me remains quite possibly the best thing about naruto besides minatos badassery. Ppl complain about how itachis story played out but frankly no one saw it coming an that is what makes a great storyline. Just cause he wasn’t as bad as he was portrayed means it was a bad story? Not ony that but kisu u went from sasuke being kishis fav to itachi? Lol stay on one side of the fence. No fence hopping. Itachi still remains the best thing to happen to naruto aside from the fourth

  68. And u like sasuke itachi doesn’t get random power ups so kishi isn’t exactly showing him as much love as for sasuke

  69. @Kisu

    This manga would improve 100% if we replaced Sasuke with Vegeta, lol.

    That would be awesome Vegeta and Orochimaru fighting together. It wouldn’t last long because Vegeta would kill Oro not too long after the partnership forms, lol.

  70. I honestly don’t see much difference between the two. Both one of the last of their kinds, both have huge chips on their shoulders, both resents the main character, both with spoiler personalities, both had upgrades from villains at some point….. I can go on all day.

    I do wonder about this, if itachi was reconized even at that age, by high ranking ninjas at that, a special individual, why did they throw him to the wolves?

  71. @unknown cause they were stupid lol. We have seen konoha is horribly stupid and yet somehow prosper :-/ maybe it has to do with the over abundance of powerful ninja they r lucky to have lol.

  72. I do not know why someone would compare Vegeta to Sasuke. I can see some similarities but on a wide range Vegeta is by far the best anti-hero character there is. While he does become good he still has that asshole personality that the fans love. While Sasuke keeps on changing his character from one thing to the other. I am not saying that Sasuke is bad, I am just saying that Vegeta is a solid character that has not changes his personality or his ways. While Sasuke is still developing and we do not have a full understanding of how he will turn out. We do not know if he will turn out to be the most diabolic character the Naruto series has ever seen or to a sweet-heart as he was in his childhood.

    @Kisuzachi, good to see you still around. While I probably would agree with you on everything on this series. I still would not say screw it. I am still waiting for that last moment and than I will decided what rating this manga deserves. So far it is surviving because of its previous former self. The only thing hold Naruto in the top three right now, is that people know Kishi can do some awesome work and he has done that in the last couple of weeks. I still think that there needs to be a lot of cleaning up from his part, I still have hope for this manga to be one of the best. Either way we will know by the end if this is a great or a manga that went from greatness to lameness.

  73. Well said Jdogg about Vegeta. I would like to add also that Vegeta unlike Sasuke has the GREATEST THEME MUSIC EVER!!

  74. Since everyone is on the subject of the manga, if Kish would keep his characters “original” and stick to the main story more (Naruto), then this manga would easily jump to the top. That’s one thing about One Piece and Bleach is that all of the characters are “original”. You don’t have to worry about 4 or 5 people coveting the same abilities. (An example being the Sharingan, wood release, and the recycling of techniques: Rinnegan, Edo Tensei,) It was okay to do it in moderation, but after awhile it becomes old. I still glance at the manga to see if Kish will return to his original ways but at the same time there are other interesting things I’ve got my eyes on as well.

    I guess what keeps me coming back here is that ya’ll are some interesting folks on this site!

  75. I like gohans theme music better, when he faced cell :b

  76. @Immortal, could of said it any better. There some very likable people on this site, that we can probably make a manga out of, it could be called; Shannaro, and we all fight to be the best arguer about our favorite manga.

  77. personally vegetas self destruct music was awesome but this one tops it for me :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gEGl1mHhdE (specailly at :45-1:20)

  78. sorry about double post phone being funky lol

  79. @everyone

    I am glad I was able to start such a great discussion, lol.

    Vote Vegeta 2013

    ~I am the Infamous One, and I approve this message :-).

  80. Vegeta who?

    Vote Rock Lee 2013

    How can you deny that Power of Youth baby?

  81. @unknown

    The only thing I saw was a reminder of Lee getting molly wopped by the two real ninja in that piece, lol. Aside from that he looked flashy, but did no real damage.

  82. I actually like sasuke character and how he struggles with emotions but i do dislike how this manga is centered around the Uchihas but this is still my fav manga

  83. Remind me how many times vegeta got his ass whooped? Don’t Worry though, he can be a member of Lee’s secret service security if he ask politely, you know they need to meet their mininum requirement for affirmative action……

    Rock Lee 2013!

  84. @Unknown, Vegeta does get his ass kick a lot of times, but in the end he becomes the second strongest being in the universe. Also, he is one of the few that can get his ass kicked in style. Like how he went with a bang fighting Fat Buu.

  85. @ jdogg I definitely agree to that. Its almost an art form with vegeta.

    I bet he still have nightmares of this fight.

  86. @Unknown, but what a honorable way to go out. Freza is a great villain, for one, for a long time I thought him to be a female, but it turned out that he was a male. I guess with the womanish voice and those sharp purple lips gave it off. But the only villain that I would compare to Freza is none other than Orochimaru. Both are freaky, both have a weird sense on everything and both want “To Rule The WORLD!!!” As for a Vegeta in Naruto, Sasuke can be considered but he is not a Vegeta. He is something new and I still think that Sasuke can become a character that even his haters will have a new found respect for him. As for how this will happen, well there are only a few things that need to happen to put him on that status. But it is all up to Kishi.

  87. @jdogg sadly there is no saga where vegeta was second strongest at the end… Well maybe the frieza one but that’s it. Cell saga it was clearly Gohan and goku as top 2, buu saga once again goku and ultimate Gohan as top 2. Vegeta was solid 3 though an at least he provided the flashy techniques that were enjoyable o watch.

  88. As for te ‘vegeta’ of this series Im not sure there is one as vegeta was a anti-hero and sasuke is just a villain right now.

  89. @ everyone

    If we really want to get down to power rankings in DBZ:
    First case without including the GT anime:

    1. Broly (Legendary Super Saiyan enough said.)
    2. Goku (SS3 enough said)
    3. Kid Buu (Absolutely beast)
    4. Vegeta (After he dies and came back in the Buu fight in my opinion was stronger than Ultimate Gohan, because of the saiyan ability to get stronger after death or close to it.)
    5. Ultimate Gohan (personally i think ss2 gohan was overall stronger because of the killer instinct. Even after Gohan was older and went ss2 Vegeta noted how he was stronger as a kid, because he stopped honing his skills.)

  90. @ everyone

    Second Case including GT

    1. Omega Shenron (only spirit bomb could stop him).
    2. SS4 Goku.
    3. SS4 Vegeta.
    4. Syn Shenron.
    5. Nova Shenron.

    Just only wished they would have made a SS4 Broly. Then there would be no question of who’s the strongest, lol. He would molly wop Goku, Vegeta, BIG MAGNUM, MEGA MAGNUM, Orochimaru, Sasuke, Naruto, and the SOSP all on one team. The only they would stand a chance is if they shared the same body, lol. But somehow Itachi would come a long and would have figured out a way to beat him by the time he turned 3 years old, smh. At that age he had the knowledge of the SOSP and the Elder Kai put together, sigh.

  91. *They would only.

    Darn these new fangled talking machines.

  92. @uchiha the power ranking r fine except for 3, and 5. Remember kid buu was not the strongest state. It was his most chaotic and uncontrollable state and also his base state if u will. Fat buu was created when the fat Kai was absorbed therefore weakened in power (and remember ss2 vegeta couldnt handle fat buu, his weakest stage).However when fat buu was split and absorbed by the skinny buu, his power was increased. Than when that buu attacked the tower only gotenks at ss3 had a chance. Than ultimate Gohan easily handled super buu and was only beat after he absorbed ss3 gotenks and piccolo (gotenks was quite possibly the strongest hero outside goku and Gohan). U mention vegeta saying Gohan was weaker which was true at that time. However after potential was unlocked gohans power was completely unmatched by anyone including goku as mystic Gohan handled super buu with ease. The rankings have to be
    1) broly
    2) goku
    3) mystic Gohan
    4)kid buu
    5) fat buu
    6) vegeta

  93. And y all the hate on itachi suddenly? The third thought he was brilliant (which we all knew already) he was extremely talented and gifted in battle (we already knew that) and just cause the third said it all the sudden itachi is op? We all know his one weakness was sasuke cause he would never be able to kill his bro. If they fought itachi would dominate and is far superior but sasuke would win cause itachi could never kill him….. Itachi puts sasuke over the village and would never kill his brother. Getting tired of all the whining about itachi being overpowered when sasuke and madara have been overpowered beyond belief and yet madara is viewed as big magnum and a beast. The double standard kills me lol

  94. Don’t mind first ranking I was wrong lol. New an updated; (I didnt do fusions cause that’s too much)

    1) broly
    2) mystic Gohan
    3) goku
    4) kid buu
    5) fat buu
    6)vegeta

  95. @Token

    1st: I like Itachi, he’s my 1.B. of Uchiha. BIG MAGNUM of course is 1.A.

    2nd: Kid Buu was far superior to Super Buu. Goku fought Super Buu and Kid Buu, and even he said Kid Buu was stronger than anyone he ever fought. That’s why he made the wish for him to come back as someone good. So that he could train against him, and prepare someone strong as him or stronger to protect the Earth when he no longer would be able to do it. Even Super Buu wad scared to evolve into him. He gave SS3 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, and Fat Buu more than they could handle. Are you telling me Ultimate Gohan is stronger than SS3 Goku? Normally you and I can pretty much agree on most subjects, but have to disagree with you on this one man.

  96. goku said that but goku as ss3 couldnt handle super buu and needed to fuse with gohan. He knew he couldnt beat super buu by himself as ss3. And ultimate gohan was stronger than ss3 goku… he on his own basically toyed around with super buu and even after the absorption of gotenks and piccolo both gohan still put up a fight with super buu. Super buu wasnt scared to change into him in essence he didnt want to “lose himself” as he wouldnt “be me anymore”. Also while ss3 goku tried to hold off super buu with gotenks inside him goku had a much harder time with it than gohan did and was almost defeated had it not been for the fusion wearing off inside him. Also kid buu when transforming goku and vegeta both notice that when at the hulk buu stage he was very powerful and in fact when kid buu was finished they were slightly relieved as his power level went down at the final transformation stage. What made kid buu so dangerous was that he was unpredicatble, irrational, and 100% evil with zero restraint thus making him a completely different foe. The power lvl difference between goku at ss3 and mystic gohan for me is miniscule enough where i would say both could be 2 and 2A but imo gohan just was more powerful even though goku possessed the clearly superior fighting intellect. I just go by the fact that ss3 gotenks was on par with super buu, fusions were considered to be stronger than a base person, and ultimate gohan toyed with the same buu that ss3 gotenks had trouble with.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I1q13RsJjY here is buu changing and vegeta and goku noticing that the power level at kid buu was lower than the hulking one and they clearly feel they could take him whcih ss3 goku could.

  97. @Token

    He had to pull his trump card susanoo….sorry 😛 I mean spirit bomb to beat him. If it wasn’t for that they would have all been toast. In fact if it wasn’t for that last wish to give him some super saiyan power back he still wouldn’t have beat him.

    Also, I think the power level decreasing thing was kind of like when Aizen couldn’t since Ichigo. Just not on such a grand scale. Even Super Buu got tired and had to eat to refuel. Kid Buu was just a non-stop beast.

  98. Eh the wish thing is a wash cause let’s be real u need more than power when facing buu lol the little guy could rearrange himself like a edo tenses zombie so that seems unfair too lol.

  99. @Token, that vid only proves the opposite of the point you are trying to make. Whey they said “he shrunk” they were referring to his physical size. He got smaller, but his power level certainly did not increase. You could see how the Kai kid was terrified of kid Buu.

    And as for Mystic gohan handling super buu better than goku, remember they were on earth. Goku did not even bother fighting super buu because he can’t maintain ss3 well on earth. Kid buu was the strongest and ss3 goku was stronger than mystic gohan.

  100. Decrease*

  101. remember that they can also tell power levels. Buu was not hiding his power at all he simply was unleashed and dangerous. They noticed the spike in power as he hulked up and got relieved…. if they were scared sensing his power level than calmed down when he finished they clearly were not worried about his power level. In fact even when fighting kid buu there was not a time when goku was worried while fighting him head to head. He pretty much killed buu several times but teh fact he regenerated over and over again was what caused the problem for them. If buu didnt regenerate so much taht fight was over in the first 2 min but because he continually came back it drained goku of his energy due to being in ss3 stage for so long. Buu wasnt as powerful as goku he simply had better stamina and outlasted goku due to goku not being able to stay in ss3 mode for very long

  102. They may invoke the wrath of the group but am I really the only one on this Naru-forum that, although I enjoyed DB, am not really into the thread? I just didn’t touch me the same way it’s obviously touched many of you….

  103. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/620

    Manga is out…Tobirama is so hardcore he melted suigetsu with a stare

  104. Sorry been away guys, was my bday an had a 4 day bender!!!

    The new bleach an naruto chapters are out and FUCK ME ITS KICKING OFF!!!!!!!

  105. @Tensa – hahaha, welcome back to reality and happy belated birthday. Kicking off PROPERLY!!!

    Bleach – acid???

    Naruto – one finger???

    TOO DAMN MURCH!!!

  106. So the 1st an 2nd hokages weren’t in full power when orochimaru. We pretty much knew that, but at least its confirmed now.

  107. *summoned them during the attack on the leaf village.*

  108. @Unknown – yup good to see some of these holes being filled in!

    Also confirmed this chapter; the First’s badassery!

  109. @Tawuya

    Thank you!!!! Now back to business:

    Bleach – Unohaha……..thee badest bitch in the Bleach Universe!!! If i read that right, it was acid an then she healed him right after burning his flesh an muscle off in almost an instant! This fight was actually beautiful but i thought kubo would have gone the route of zaraki learning his swords name this chapter……

    Naruto – History never looked so fuckin’ sweeeeeeeeet!!! FINALLY WE GET TO SEE THE FLASHBACK OF ALL FLASHBACKS!!!!!!!!! BIG PIMPIN VS BIG MAGNUM ROUND 1 VALLEY OF THE END!! Yoooooooooo its too much, kishi is fuckin wit my blood pressure wit this shit tryna make a brother passout! Kishi in this chapter not only pissed on the haters, he took a fat shit, wiped his ass an didnt bother to flush!!!! Im gonna go read this again fuck it!

  110. #hahahahahaExcitedMan

  111. @Gizzla – is this not the most psychotic look on a woman’s face you’ve ever seen:

    http://naruto.anifreak.com/manga/bleach/526/8/

  112. wow what a chapter

  113. @ Tawuya
    She looks like a woman who has just had a shit day, drove an hour an a half to get a box of krispy kreme doughnuts and got told “sorry we’ve just sold the last one!!”

  114. #hilarity! ahh yes, Gizzla has returned!

    So dude is Kenpachi and still isn’t interested in hearing what his Zanpaktou has to say?! Beast. Wonder how dude training Ichigo and Abarai feels about this…

  115. Did the first just say Itachi was better than him? Even though he meant in a principles and love for the village way. Pretty high praise.

    Love how Oro turnes into a MEGA MAGNUM fanboy when he got a compliment.

    The MEGA can supress edo with his chakra alone. Beeeeeaaaaaaast!!!!!!

    @tensa,

    Been trying to hold some of the good hilarity down while you were gone, like my first post on this thread.

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