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Naruto Chapter 529 – Ino-Shika-Cho to the Rescue

naruto-retro1Post Author: Bob

Pretty solid chapter this week. Overall I felt the fight with the Kin/Gin brothers was rushed, especially since we’re talking about taking down someone with the power to undergo a Kyuubi transformation. But I also understand that Kishi needs to keep things moving along in order to move on to the other parts of the war we’re waiting to see. I have lots of work and tests this week, so I will be keeping this week’s chapter review somewhat barebones.

– It was both interesting and gross to discover the Gin/Kin brothers survived by consuming the meat inside the Kyuubi’s stomach. You’d think they’d be able to create more super shinobis this way, but Kishi covered his tracks by adding in the point about other ninja dying after eating the flesh of a bijuu and how the brothers were distant descendants of the Sage.
– The purifying pot was definitely an interesting weapon, but I was more impressed by the Raikage’s assistant, Mabui’s, ability to transmit an object to a distant location with a lightning jutsu. I can see so many possibilities with such a technique.
– I didn’t expect Ino-Shika-Chou to be the key to winning this battle; this team hasn’t seen any action since the battle versus Hidan and Kakuzu so one could say it was about time they claimed a victory.
– I never thought that the Ino-Shika-Chou combo was great to begin with; there’s just too many things that can go wrong with the coordination of their attack. And with the exception of Chouji, the team isn’t best fit for frontal encounters with enemies, so they’re pretty vulnerable if Shikamaru or Ino miss the opportunity to trap the enemy. I had my doubts whether they would succeed against a powerful opponent like Kinkaku but it looks like the moral of this chapter is that teamwork triumphs over going at it solo.
– The appearance of Shikamaru’s team was also meant to bring them to the same battlefield as their former sensei, Asuma. I’d be tough for them to be forced to fight Asuma, but I think they’ll handle it fine and it’ll give Shikamaru to show Asuma how much stronger he has become.
– This last battle just flew by, which is surprising considering how powerful Gin/Kin were made out to be. But I think Kishi paced it well to keep the action flowing and give a number of secondary characters their time in the spotlight.

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69 Responses

  1. Arite chapter i guess. So now its confirmed that 2nd hokage actually died by the hands of KinGin bros. But how? KinGin bros uses those weapons to seal away the opponents whole body or the soul? so how come Oro managed to summon the 2nd with edo?

  2. First! Very Nice Chapter.

  3. @xTailed: Probably the old fashion way. A good o’ ass kicking. lol.

  4. The first page is a little funny, Naruto senses a disturbance in the force. It was the darkside.

  5. The second Hokage almost died at their hands. He was killed while holding off an elite force of about 20 Cloud Ninja to save Danzo and Hiruzen, which we learned in Danzo’s death flashback.

  6. Update: according to Narutopedia, the brothers were part of the Kinkaku force, which did kill the second hokage like I said. My bad. I guess that would make sense since they referred to him as “dead”.

  7. my question is how old were the gin/kin brothers when they died and who killed them cause they sure as hell didn’t die of old age? they were swallowed by kyubi from what i can til must have been an early age like teens to make the timeline work. kyubi was still running rampant before being sealed by mito and they were still around when their force killed the 2nd hokage. the 3rd was appointed hokage in his late teens early 20s but was a kid if i am correct when kyubi was sealed. the kin/gin bros at the most looks like they in their mid to late 20 early 30s so once again something is not adding up but i could be wrong as i am sleepy and heading to bed being lazy to research right now.

  8. Your chapter reviews keep getting shorter and shorter ='(.

    Is it because you’re getting sick of Naruto or…?

  9. One more thing, Kakuzu better get a fucking badass fight. I know Kishi (or rather his editor) HATES Kakuzu… But he really needs the love, seriously, he’s like one of best characters in this manga.

  10. hi long time reader first time commenting. i know this has nothing to do with the chapter but you must see this and tell me what you think http://www.animedude.net/airing-anime/naruto-shippuden/naruto-x-uniqlo-special-episode-1/ it called Naruto x Uniqlo Special 1 but i cant see this happen in the anime

  11. @the evil ryu: i totally agree with you. A timeline is necessary. Thing is, the battle of the end and when the first got summoned show that he was around the same age. What i’m thinking is that the soon after the battle with madara, the 1st retired making tobirama the 2nd.
    This would mean that madara the events between the ginkin brothers getting kyuubi powers and the battle of the end were not too far apart. As madara had just gotten the kyuubi. With tobirama, his edo wasn’t older than any of his flashbacks, so i think these events all occurred in less than 2yrs, making tobirama the shortest reigning hokage… No surprise there!
    PS: I NOMINATE KISU TO ASSEMBLE AN AD HOC EVENTS TIMELINE FOR NARUVERSE! That kid knows the naruverse better than most of us and always seems to have the time to research through manga!

  12. I second the motion!

  13. What wouldof been nice to see of the Kin/Gin Brothers is some History or Flash backs but if we done that to all the enemies then it would take a very long time to get through the war so think Kishi has got it at a good pace and he can always add a little more action into the Anime when it comes around i guess!

  14. There are unofficial timelines online, although not all of them are complete. I would volunteer to make one for nartuohurricane.com or shannaro, but I don’t have that kind of time. I haven’t even been able to finish my fanfic in the last year, I might just post it as is, even though it is old…

    Kishi won’t (if he’s a good story teller, which I think he is) put out a timeline until much later because it would reveal too much about the story.

    As to the chapter itself, I thought it was pretty good. It highlights how widespread the “Senju/Uzumaki” branch of the Sage is over all of the countries. We only know of 2 major doujutsus (besides Rin’negan itself) and they are in Konoha… so are those the only descendants of the other branch? I just wonder what made the “‘body” inheritance of the sage spread so much. Or maybe they just reproduced like crazy…

  15. I wonder if ginkaku too was able to go into “kyuubi” form, since the Raikage said both of the brothers absorbed the nine tails chakra.

    And as for this “filler” battles, I am also afraid (since I do not like him) that all of these alliance´s “victories” will end once sasuke is unleashed……,.,

    And yet, I hope he still kills Ten ten, my God, what waste of ink, please someone put her out of her misery, lol

  16. @madzikage, I take no credit for this. Well I take credit for finding it of course 😛

    “Wo Ai Ni, on January 3, 2010 at 5:47 am said:

    Firstly, the ages (Part 1)

    Naruto: 13
    Minato: – (this tired me a lot!) Academy: 10 Chuunin: –
    Kakashi: 27 Academy: 5 Chuunin: 6
    Jiraiya: 50 Academy: 6 Chuunin: –
    Sarutobi: 69 – – – (if he lived right now, he would be 72, just like Danzo)

    Now, the calculations:

    When Jiraiya was born, Sarutobi was 69-50=19.

    When Jiraiya started training with Sarutobi, the later was 19+6=25.

    When NARUTO was born, Jiraiya was 50-13=37. Kakashi was 27-13=14.

    When Kakashi was born, Jiraiya was 50-27=23. When Minato trained Kakashi (5), Jiraiya was 23+5=28. These 5 years Jiraiya trained Minato (10), so when Kakasi graduated, Minato was 15 years old and already a Jonin to take over Kakashi’s team.

    If Jiraiya trained Minato at his 23 years, he must have trained Yahiko’s team 3 years ago, so 23-3=20. That means, when he returned to Konoha (23), he immediately started training Minato(10).

    Kakashi became a Jonin at 13. So, he was trained for 8 years by Minato (already 23).

    One year later, at Kakashi’s 14 and Minato’s 24, NARUTO was born. (Poor Minato, you were Hokage for just one year!)”

    Everything before Sarutobi is a toss up though, but by using Kakuzu’s age you should be able to fill in any little blanks.

  17. I know Kishi is trying to boost up the Konoha 11 and their rep, I can see this being the trend with every shinobi that was resurected, but seriously he is nerfing the reborn shinobi to an extreme degree. How can Ino even control a person who is in kyuubi cloak mode? Oh my god, I can see it now Ten Ten beats Nagato, and Sasuke owns Itachi like nothing if they fought again, that would be the last straw. lol. I thought it was interesting what Shukaku, Shikamaru’s father, said, legends of long ago are greatly exaggerated, I can see it now, Ino-Shika-Cho took down the Kin Gin Bros, by themselves, when we all know it was with a whole battalion behind them, or just how they were exaggerating the Kin-Gin Bros. victory over the Second Hokage, they think they soloed him, but it took the Bros and 20 elite cloud shinobi to take down the Second Hokage, how many times has this happened? Everyone thinks Oro got owned by Sasuke, but no one knew Oro’s weakened state or the fact that Oro wasn’t going for the kill, Choujiro thinks Sasuke took down Zabuza and Haku. hahaha, Sasuke supposedly took down Itachi, yeah real legendary, when Itachi was pulling his punches, everyone will think Naruto defeated Pain/Nagato, the Rinnegan user, single-handedly, when we all know that was not the case. It is to say the least annoying as hell when characters in the story make assumptions without knowing the whole facts. Expect major nerfing of all of our revived favorite shinobi’s don’t expect anything gret, that way if the battles are truly epic from here on out, you will presently surprised. Can’t wait for the next chapter.

  18. @kisu and wo: sarutobi was 25 when he trained jiraiya? that means that jiraiya was trained by the hokage because sarutobi from the danzou flashback became kage when he was still in the 2nd’s team and he looked quite young in that!
    Now there’s that flashback where sarutobi is with the 1st and the 2nd and he looks like a kid, i’d say 6-10 (from the way kishi draws kids) and it looks like a time of peace (not sure if this was anime only) anyway, supposing it was not that would mean that flashback occurred after the battle at the end during a time of peace. So that was 19-15years before jiraiya’s birth. Additionally if we say (based on how teenagers are drawn) that sarutobi was in his late teens (like part 1 itachi) when the 2nd died, that would place those events around the time when jiraiya was born.
    What that means is that the ginkin brothers would have to at least be teen age(old enough to be used to capture the kyuubi)+teen age(the age sarutobi became hokage)=in their 30s when they attacked and killed the 2nd as part of that 20elite kumo squad. This would mean that given the way they are drawn, they either died soon after the 2nd’s assassination or were killed during the assassination.

    This is all speculative, but what are your guys opinions?

  19. it doesn’t matter if Kin/Gin Bros were young or old but they were strong enough to defeat the 2nd hokage

  20. @The Evil Ryu, I agree. I want to know who was the one who end up killing them, since they were strong enough to defeat the 2nd hokage.

    Also, I wonder if Madara/Tobi ever came in contact with them? 😡

  21. @Chiaki, I also wonder if Madara/Tobi came in contact with them.

  22. Where the heck is madara/tobi?

  23. @a lost shinobi

    the million dollar question =) ive been going over all the information i cud find about tobi, manga, anime wiki u name it. in my opinion tobi absolutely has to be someone we kno and cant be a completey new character or a character that we just caught a split second glimpse of (like that uchiha that was part of team tobirama. just an example) in all reality tobi can be anyone but given the info i cud dig up all of it truly points to tobi really being who he claims to be which is madara uchiha. the things that give credibility to him not being madara is one, the mask. if u already revealed your identity then wats with the mask? its possible it cud be to hide scars that cud be on his face tho. two, who else cud it be and wat is their motive? if it isnt madara cud it be another uchiha? it has to be someone who knows everything there is to know about the history of konoha, the senju and the uchiha as well as all the powers of all forms of the sharingan and the rinnegan. this person wud have to know all of the this. in my opinion, it has to be someone who was alive before the time of the founding of konoha. now we all are aware that tobi is very good at lying as well so that also gives more credibility to him not being madara. also who cud have been in that coffin summoned by kabuto’s edo tensei that wud startle tobi so much? cud it have been the real madara which wud mean tobi is an imposter? or if tobi is madara who cud kabuto hav summoned that wud instill fear in him and who cud he hav ties to that if those ties were revealed it wud jeopardize his plans? (i mean seriously if it is madara the guy is damn near 100 years really old who cud he hav ties too) also tobi stated that if itachi knew everything about hi he wud be dead. to me these are the questions that make up tobi’s mysterious character and i think no matter how hard we try or how close we get to finding who he cud be or if he is madara, kishi’s too good a writer to let us figure it out without him wanting us to.

  24. @lost shinobi

    i read too fast u asked where he is i thought u sed who lol silly me a little over zealous… too much coffee this morning =)

  25. @ fastninjaa you made a great point about uchiha kagami what do we know about this guy . it isn’t clear to me why the second took six shinobi possible the strongest six in the village and not anbu. i mean first off he left the village took his replacement and the guy that was his rival so danzo had to be strong with out the sharingan and you had to figure that he would not take anyone weaker than kakashi.the point i am trying to make is kagami was a guard for the hokage maybe friends with danzo (who has many secrets) and it seems he was around the same age as the third he could have been trained by madara and he would be alive now wrinkled and know all about the uchiha past . keep in mind he helped itachi slaughter their clan he has all those sharingans but danzo manged to get his hands on some too.

  26. Gosh, Kisu, I think I feel honored that you found and represented this comment of me! And posted one year ago? How did you manage that? You do deserve kudos! 😀

    Well, I initially wanted to find the age of Minato. And slowly, based on sheer Maths, I found the timeline of the basic story, at least. Nagato and Konan, for example, were in their 40s when they died.

    Indeed, it seems that Jiraiya started training with Sarutobi, when the later was already Hokage. So, as Madzikage said, KinGin brothers were very young when Kyubi ate them. And still young when they fought the Second and when later they somehow were killed. (As they are resurrected now quite young.)

    But as Kisu said, everything before Sarutobi is pure guess and estimations, without Maths. Because Kishi hasn’t given yet any ages or any more info for people before the Third.

    At least, we know that Nawaki was 12 and Dan 27 when they died, so we can kinda guess the age of Tsunade at that time, thus guess the time when she was a baby and Hashirama was still alive.

    We also have Kakuzu (91), but still it’s kinda hard, as we don’t know in what age he was when he fought Hashirama. He was around when Kingaku (who was young then) transformed into Kyubi, after Kyubi had eaten him. So, Kakuzu was still in the village and Kyubi was still free (before the Hashirama-Madara battle).

    Kyubi ate KinGin, Kakuzu saw them -> Kakuzu fought Hashirama, lost and left his village (but maybe this incident can go after Madara too) -> Hashirama fought Madara, Kyubi was sealed in Mito-> Tobirama became Hokage -> Tobirama was killed, maybe by KinGin, and Sarutobi became Hokage.

    I know that all this sound complicated; and to think I could add some other numbers too. ^^;

    If you find a mistake, though, do tell me, guys. ^^; I guess I just have wait for the 4th Databook to see if these calculations are right. 🙂

  27. also tobi stated that if itachi knew everything about hi he wud be dead

    could it be Sasuke and Itachi’s father?

  28. @Bob-sama

    Good post but there are some areas where I would disagree when it comes to the Ino-Shika-Chou – I am pretty sure they already set up a plan prior to going onto the battle field because few chapters back when Shukaku was giving the Raikage battle plans; he stated now it’s time for Ino-Shika-Chou to enter the battlefield and we are now starting to see them in actions. With the Allies having the ‘Purifying Pot’ – this will be the KEY to defeat all the EDOs to think of it… if someone with Ino ability can get into the enemies head and make them answer to the pot… they will be sealed. So I can see Darui divison soon wiping all of their enemys… I will agree with you that the battles are seem to be a little rush but when the anime comes there will be more filled in piece that the manga didn’t showcase. Kishi is just giving us major points/actions in the war…

  29. I now belive tobi is shisu uchiha, its was said that the misukage was controlled by someone, and we have been told shisu sharingan could do that without the person being aware. his death was never really discussed, only that he drowned which could of been a zetsu clone like kisame clone which kept it shape after being decapitated. we know he was te best of the uchiha at the time as stated and itachi looked up to him so i dont think itachi was strong enough to kill. I think shisu had a deal with danzo like the use of his right eye for the first dna and thats why he was so intrested in danzo for the purpose of retrieveing his eye, and when that was no longer possible he settled for nagato eye. That could be why itachi referred to him as a shell of his self. maybe shusi is the son of madara and thats why he use his father name and still wears th mask. i will re-post later with more facts but remember people, me a simple man, a member of teamevolution figured it out, our maybe he just a edo summon that as never cancled..lol could be that simple. p.s bob please post more as i always look forward to your insight. its on a different level from us all.

  30. @teamevolution1
    You know something it kind of make sense but then again it doesn’t. To make it simple he was one of the best Uchihas and if Itachi Uchiha looks up to you you are a bad ass bastard and you would think Kabuto would have brought him back as he was in Konoha for years and could have retrieved the DNA then. So it could be possible however, beside Itachi, Kabuto never revived other Uchihas and you can’t say he never had chances as he got Neji’s dad’s DNA. But he could be holding back the uchihas for sometime later. Madara’s son? grandson maybe but not son. Shisu would have to be like in his 40 to 60 when itachi killed him or so say. Remember Madara was around between 100 to 80 years ago in Konoha’s life span and Itachi killed Shisu when Sasuke was like what 8? That make Shisu an old fart.

  31. @ teamevolution you have a lot of good points, but I doubt madara is shisu I think that mist nin with the byakugan would have noticed. If u remember tobi/madara showed up at the kage summit, but then again who knows

  32. As far as the time line I used Sabotori as my link. like I said he was a child if not even born during the time kyubi was sealed. Now like I said KinGin now look like mid to late twenties to thirties. Yes we don’t know who long before Kyubi was seal from when they were swallowed but I feel it had to be sometime like a year or two. Now if my speculation is right the KinGin were like around 12 to 18 when they were sent to fight Kyubi. Now using the 3rd i guess he was in his early 20s when given the title Hokage now using that that would make KinGin when they and their forces killed the 2nd between 32 to 40 years old (Remember it is speculation based on already written facts and picture profiling) Now that is where things get stupid as everyone that was resurrected are from the time they died. And them brothers do not look a day over 30 at the most. So either Kishi needs to rewrite his story on the brother if they help kill the 2nd with those other 18 men or say the Kinkaku Forces was just named after the older brother and they died before the 2nd Hokage died by does forces. Yes I know naruto has a bigger picture behind it but simple stuff like that is turning faithful readers and watches such as us on this sight away from it.

  33. Hope you folks know what i mean in my last post. tried to keep it simple.

  34. @teamevolution

    good point. shisui can very well be tobi if u put the pieces together. kabuto stated that he cudnt find his body either (if kabuto cud recover the bodies of the 2nd mizukage and tsuchikage it shudnt have been that hard to find shisui’s body) giving credibility to him being alive. at the summit, it was revealed that Ao once fought shisui and had permanent memory of his chakra. when the fighting began Ao was ordered by mei to chase the fleeing danzo, so he wasnt there while tobi revealed to the kage his moons eye plan, while if he was there and if tobi is shisui, he wud have identified him as so, so thats a pretty big coincidence. and tobi claims to have met with danzo before the uchiha clan massacre and if tobi is shisui, it cud have been to exchange one of his sharigan eyes and arm for hashirama’s dna. also shisui was feared as the shisui of the body flicker referring to his mastery of the technique. danzo cud have made shisui’s arm part of their deal to also transplant it as well as shisui’s eye into himself to try and obtain shisui’s body flicker prowess. and if tobi is shisui maybe his alleged space-time ninjutsu is his special version of the body flicker or maybe it cud be a space-time ninjutsu that is a sharigan power unique to only him like his mind controlling genjutsu. (idk if any other uchihas can use the same genjustu as shisui to control their targets mind without them knowing but as far as i kno it was never stated) for shisui to potentially be tobi we need to kno how old was he wen tobi attacked konoha for the second time and tried to tame the nine tails after naruto’s birth and or how old was he wen he died.

  35. @teamevolution: at the time of the massacre, kabuto was too young to be dna hunting and afterwards, danzou and madara were too focused on sharingan collecting to give him access to uchihas (my opinion) still shisui is a mystery. I just don’t get why people can’t just say tobi is madara! I think at most it is him in another body.

    @the evil: read my earlier post, i posited a similar theory. Then we can discuss our opinions.

  36. @fightingspirit7

    itachi killed his father fugaku during the uchiha clan massacre

  37. @fastninja

    Well, Shisui’s arm and eye were taken and implanted into Danzo (with some of the Shidome’s cells to provide enough physical energy to aid in the use of the sharingans). So, it IS possible Shisui lived after that BUT…

    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-222/04/

    Shisui was found drowned in the river. It is possible he faked his own death, but what was Itachi’s traumatic event that awakened his MS?

    Also, Tobi’s technique is space-time ninjutsu. This technique has nothing to do with body flicker.

    Based on the only image we have of Shisui (I can’t remember the chapter at the moment), I would guess he was about Itachi’s age when he died. It would make sense, if they went to the academy together it is more likely that they would be friends.

    Lastly, there is NO WAY Tobi is Madara. Just because Kisame called Tobi “Madara” doesn’t mean he really is Madara. When Tobi came out of the shadows he probably said “OK Kisame, my name is Madara” since Kisame is too young to have seen Madara before the VOTE fight, and after the VOTE fight, Madara was assumed dead, Kisame would have to take Tobi’s word for it. Quite frankly, Tobi has been pushing too hard to make other people THINK he is Madara. I don’t quite know who Tobi really is (I have some ideas), but the ones who are definitely out are:

    Madara (Tobi tries too hard for it to be true)
    Sage Six Paths (Unless he disapproved of the way the clans made peace).
    Shisui (Itachi had to kill him, Shisui was going to blow Itachi’s cover).
    Fugaku (Itachi killed him).
    Danzo (He’s dead… thanks to our favorite Emo.)
    Tobirama (Sealed in the Shinigami).

    This only leaves a few possibilities at the moment, as Tobi MUST be someone we have already been introduced to:

    Izuna (Madara’s brother, Tobi and Itachi said Izuna died, but that could be one of Tobi’s lies).
    Obito (OK I know Obito is probably too young and it is highly unlikely that he survived the crushing rocks, but what if he did…)

    So that’s it, it’s either Izuna or Obito, and quite frankly Obito gives the story more flavor, but maybe that’s just because I’m such a Kakashi fan.

    Now for all of you insisting that Tobi is Madara and it is a straightforward evil-Villain type plot that is motivating this whole manga, isn’t that a little boring?

  38. Lastly, for those of you who say that Narutopedia says Tobi = Madara, their article is based on the idea that Tobi is NOT lying, which he totally is.

  39. @ripcord

    yea thats the same thing i sed tobi has to be someone we’ve been introduced to or have seen before. if tobi is izuna why wud he take on his brothers identity? wat wud he have to hide? and theres no way tobi is obito either. if he is then kishi shud just change the name to kakashi shippuden. why wud obito want to cast an infinite tsukuyomi to put the world under his control? he has absolutely no motive at all. tobi = power hungry fiend who wants world domination. obito = honorable shinobi that died saving his friends life and on his deathbed gave his friend his clans legendary dojutsu, the sharingan, which to me is a big deal given as to how protective clans and villages are of their kekkei genkai’s. and tobi loves to blabber about uchiha this senju that. im pretty sure obito knew nothing about the centuries long uchiha and senju feud, the founding of konoha or the sage of the six paths. scratch obito off the list its not him either.

  40. @ripcord: he tries too hard to make people believe he’s madara? Come on that’s a nonsensical reason to discard him being madara. Additionally, the same character we know today as tobi is the same character who a)fought minato and b)controlled the mizukage these two facts eliminate obito from the list based on age.
    Too be honest, kishi is digging a literary hole for himself if tobi is not madara. This is because he’ll have to invent a highly convoluted back story based on ass pull (like the ginkin brothers) to explain everything about him. Him just being madara explains everything. And it’s not boring, i think it’s quite intriguing to know what madara’s plans have been all along and to discover how he’s survived for almost a century.
    Additionally, you rightly disqualified a number of ninja from the list and i’d also take off izuna, simply due to the fact that there is no rational explanation for him being izuna and not being madara. As i mentioned it will all be an ass pull back story if he’s not madara. The body kabuto summoned was probably izuna’s, and his shock was from seeing his brother.

  41. @madzikage

    it was izuna kabuto summoned. kabuto sed to tobi after he shocked him with the summon that he didnt tell a soul so it had to have been someone who cud reveal his true identity and or stop his moons eye plan.

  42. it WASNT*

  43. honestly i would be pissed if tobi is madara… for one hes not that powerful from what we have seen of him thus far and it would be way to anticlimactic if he was tobi. and @mad yea tobi does seem to go overboard to say hes madara… if u r who u say u r let ur actions do the talking. up tilll now he says im madara im madara… and yet all he does is phase out when hes forced to battle or try to suck ppl in. If he is this persistent to let ppl know who he is than thats a flag in itself. hopefully its not madara cause if it is… ugh how boring

  44. Obito is NOT Tobi!!!!!!!!!

    There is NO way he coud have become powerful enough to bound a tailed beast to his wil, something that only four men have accomplished, perform time/space techniques, cast a genjutsu and manipulate a jinchūriki whose ability to control his beast teorically would have made him immune to any form of illusion (according to killer bee) etc etc etc, in just 3 years???
    IMPOSIBBLE!!!!

    I am 99% sure that this masked guy is Uchiha Madara, or at least his mind and soul are, however I do have “doubts” about his body, after all, he shoud be almost 100 years old, his EMS seems to be gone, and we do not know the exact details of the infamous battle with Hashirama, and why he says he is just a shell of his former self….

  45. we have been told in the past that Madara was the only Uchiha able to control the kyubi and we have seen tobi do that then tobi is madara
    end of discussion

  46. tobi can’t be shishu. wouldn’t someone have picked up his chakra like they did with danzo at the kage meeting?

  47. Well, my thinking of Obito being Tobi rests all on one panel in the manga, bottom right of this page:

    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-243/17/

    If Obito was indeed able to see the future, he definitely could have just “known” how to do everything he has done so far.

    If Tobi is Madara, what do the people of present day care about that? There is no one who was alive from back then, and quite frankly the ONLY part of the old Senju/Uchiha feud left is Sasuke and Naruto and that isn’t even part of the original feud. Sasuke hated Naruto even without knowing Naruto was a Senju.

    Like Kakashi said about Kakuzu, all Madara would be is a washed-up old man.

    Lastly, the body in Kabuto’s coffin WAS Madara himself. Kabuto clearly is playing with Tobi’s mind in that chapter, playing with the fact that Tobi is hiding his identity. If Tobi’s face were Madara’s face, then he would have every reason to show it, even if it had scars. I could understand previously that he hid that implanted left eye to have an Izanagi trump card, but now in my opinion if Tobi were Madara, he has no reason to wear that mask anymore.

  48. @polytox: i say that forming a backstory about the series antagonist during the twilight of the manga is bad writing. And as you pointed out, at the very least it is his soul in another body.
    Moreover, why do we keep giving credence to his power based on his fight with hashirama who is nothing but a glorified yamato by the way.

  49. First. I suspect tobi is far stronger then most people think. In fact he is so strong that most of the time he is directly confronted he doesnt have to fight. Not to mention his sharingan we we dont see him using all that much, and now he has one of peins eyes. We shouldnt confuse weakness with choosing not too fight.

    Secondly i believe tobi is madara but in much the same way oro jumped from body to body i believe madara is doing this as well. From what i remember i believe that jutsu was stolen from the leaf by oro and perfected.

    There is no reason to not consider madara using a derivitive of the same jutsu. This would also explain how kabuto and oro knew so much about it.

    I believe the reason he hides his face is because he is in a cloned body similer to that of zetsu. This would give him many spare bodies to use. And also explains how he has been able to amputate random parts of his body. As would it explain the whole “shell of his former self” line.

    Whoever tobi is in reality it has to be someone we know. To make the main villen into a completly new charater after all this time is very haxzors. I suspect the summons kabuto had was madaras real body but because madara isnt dead kabuto couldnt complete the edo summons and was only able to bring forth the body to show madara what exactly he knows

  50. @madzikage

    Well I believe that madara is/was a very strong character, and as I wrote above I have my reasons to do so, and well, during the kage meeting, the all proudful Onoki who always shows disdain to almost anyone, was shocked by Madara´s revelation about choosing to carry out his designs behind the shadows through Akatsuki, despite how powerful he was/is, something to which madara answered he was a shell of his former self…..

    And as for battle with the first hokage goes, sometimes Shodaime is portrayed like a formidable shinobi who “defeated” the combined might of Madara and the Kyuubi, and considering the fact that the 6 tails transformation gave Nagato a lot work, is quite a feat, but at the same time as you pointed out midzu, againts a frail and old Sarutobi, Hashirama did not looked THAT impressive.

  51. @bringerofkaos

    It can’t be Madara’s “real” body. Edo Tensei summons the SOUL not the body. If Kabuto’s coffin had a Madara in it, then it was Madara’s soul and Tobi cannot be Madara. If Tobi is Madara, then the body in the coffin had to be someone else’s.

  52. @Bringer of chaos

    I agree with with you, Kabuto showed Madara his old body just to scare him and join forces……

  53. @ripcord.

    I understand how edo works. And maybe i wasnt clear enough. I believe he summoned his body but that it isnt tied to edo. IE he summoned madaras corpse to show madara just how much he knows about what madara has been doing.

    I refuse to believe. That kishi will completly hack the main villain in the series to such a degree to make him into a character we have never known.

    Also in an unrelated topic i will be getting a new comp on the comming weeks and shortly there after im goin to try my hand at a fanfic of my own that will start where shippuden did

  54. Ok, so explain to me why Madara’s soul would be afraid of his own body?

  55. This is my timeline of events

    – madara perfects a body / soul swapping jutsu prior to his fight with hashirama.

    -madara creates or clones zetsu generating a new body for himself.

    – madara fights hashirama and in so doing burns out his EMS sharingan trying to exert control over the kyubi away from hashirama.

    -hashirama defeats madara. Madara uses izangi (if he had it then) to fake his own death. Leaving him alive but his body too banged up to continue using. Think paralized.

    -madara switches bodies into a zetso clone and implants 2 new sharingans into it ( not EMS). Also giving him the ability to modify his new body with the cells of senju or whatever else comes around.

    – madara saves his old body in hopes of restoring it back to functionality and restoring his EMS at some point in the future

    – kabuto knowing whats going on finds madaras original body and summons it to show madara just how much he knows about whats goin on

  56. @bringerofkaos

    But Hashirama did not have the Kyuubi in that battle, it was under Madara’s control.

    Madara could not have used Izanagi unless he got Hashirama’s cells before the battle, that or Madara’s claim that you need both Senju & Uchiha cells for it to work is false.

    Kabuto’s summon was in an Edo Tensei coffin. The body he summoned was an Edo Tensei’ed soul, not just a corpse.

  57. Yes. But after madara summoned the kyubi there could have been a powerfull struggle over it. Hell given how little we know about the fight hashirama could have just gauged out his eyes.

    Substitue izangi for some other jutsu. There is enough out there.

    A coffin is a coffin. We never saw what was in it let alone the body inside move. So how do you know it was an edo summons for sure? Afterall we didnt know the truth about the kyubi attack till recently.

    All i’m sayin is there are things not necasarily considered that are not out of the realm of possability.

  58. @bringerofkaos

    Then you have to acknowledge that it is possible that Obito could still be alive. Also, it is definitely an Edo Tensei summon:

    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-490/03/

    So, nope, can’t just be a corpse.

  59. I guess we wont really know till kishi tells us…..assuming he knows yet

  60. He knows, that’s how he’s able to tip-toe around it and tease us so much. That’s why I feel like we won’t find out who Tobi is right up until he is about to die.

  61. wow, this went from a chapter discussion to a freaking timeline contest..lmao. have at it guys. imma sit this one out, i mean we won’t really know the order of things until kishi, not kisu, makes one available, i mean its his manga, he can have as many plot holes and space/time jutsus as he wants and the mystery behind tobi will catch us completely off guard, but im sticking to my guns on the him being the guy that itachi “killed”.

  62. Why can’t Tobi just be Madara? The Third Databook said he was Madara. Either way, does it really matter? It’ll only become important who he is when he takes off the mask.

    @Just passing, are you in love with me or something bro? Sorry, I don’t swing that way.

  63. Where the heck is Madara???
    He’s collecting some DNAs, preparing his own army.

  64. I think the body that was summoned was either Tobi/Madara/Master Splinter/Yogi Bear/Bugs Bunny’s real body or his brother. I think it is his brothers body. I think this because of 2 main reasons. 1. I think it was stated somewhere that his younger brother actually was the stronger the two, comparable to Sasuke and Itachi, because even orochimaru said Sasukes eyes were stronger, plus Sasuke looks like Madara’s little brother, and we all are well aware of how Kishi loves to foreshadow things. 2. He would know all about Madara and his weaknesses. Once again just a theory though, :-).

  65. So then why all the mystery? I would feel like I was jerked around. I don’t buy the whole “he just needed to provide cover, so the silly Tobi personality was just an act.” I mean, he wasn’t active in Akatsuki as Tobi with that personality for very long, it seems absurd to me, IMHO. But we shall see.

  66. I would of thought that if it was a corpse it would of been a reverse summon instead of Edo tensei! if it was Edo tensei or a form of it then it would be a vertical coffin which would prevent the corpse from falling out when the coffin lid would open! also Reverse summon comes in the puff of smoke instead of being raised from the ground.

    I think that it maybe his brother or someone who has the ability rival Madara’s power or mentally knock his game! Madar/Tobi doesnt seem the sentimental type to be caught off guard by a past love or fellow family member so not quite sure! Maybe its the Sage of the six paths but i would of thought his DNA would been wasted away many moons ago unless someone kept a Vial of his blood the the remains in a sacred shrine!

  67. wouldnt be a vertical coffin sorry!

  68. here’s are my gripe’s ;

    1). y did oro summon the forth if he was sealed and y did the 3rd try to stop it. it seams other villages are aware of the edo summon and how it work, so shouldn’t the be aware as well.hummm

    2). y was ino able to take control kinkaku in 6 tail cloak when she couldn’t handle sora in 1 tails cloak.

    3). y was the 2nd on a mission without any ambu, just a bunch of kids, and if they did indeed kill him how did the leaf get the body back and y did the attack him.

    4). I will post more on my break.

  69. 530 is out

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