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Naruto Chapter 527 – Shut Up and Fight

naruto-retro1Post Author: Bob

So just read chapter 527, it’s definitely an interesting battle that’s going on and we even get a few important name drops like 2nd Hokage and the Sage of Sixth Paths. With still so little to go on about these mysterious figures of the past, we’ll appreciate every morsel of information Kishi decides to shed for us. Yet although the Kinkaku/Ginkaku battle was filled with fast-paced action, I still felt the pace of the story has slowed down a bit. This is partly because this is the first time in a while where Kishi has introduced “new” enemies with elaborate techniques/abilities that require somewhat lengthy explanations. Yes, this tends to slow down the flow of things, but I appreciate how Kishi is once again incorporating mythology and literature into his work.

Last chapter I said I wasn’t too interested in the Gin/Kin brothers overall… and I’m still not, lol. To me they just seemed like all the other “elite” but nevertheless throwaway villains that Kabuto has summoned for this war. They were created solely for the purposes of this war and thus disposable. Unlike villains of the past which had enough chapters and time devoted to backstory to help develop them, you know that these new villains have the life expectancy of an anime filler character. They follow the traditional cookie-cutter formula of being introduced with over-powered techniques and have apparently well known and fearful reputations (yet never mentioned before in the series), but in the end are soundly defeated by the heroes and are never heard of again. It’s difficult to get attached to these ‘flavor of the week’ villains.

That said, you can’t deny the Gin/Kin brothers have been given some pretty epic powers. The backstory the Raikage gives even states that they left the Second Hokage on the verge of death in their battles – now that deserves some respect. As if that wasn’t badass enough, the brothers also took on the Kyuubi and survived in the beast’s stomach for two weeks, WEEKS! Something like that would probably have drove any other ninja insane, but the brothers came out tainted with the Kyuubi’s chakra, making them even stronger than before.

So far, it hasn’t been mentioned that they possess any kekkei genkai abilities, but who needs that stuff when you have the Sage’s super weapons and Kyuubi chakra in your veins to boot. The brothers themselves are based on villains from a story in Journey to the West, an ancient work of Chinese literature that even inspired Goku’s character in Dragon Ball. The four powerful weapons the brothers possess are right out of the stories down to the unique soul sucking powers. The weapons are said to be out of a set of five that were treasures left behind by the Sage of the Six Paths. They are said to have a tremendous drain on the user’s chakra when used and so can’t be handled by normal shinobi. The Gin/Kin brothers are seen wielding the weapons prior to obtaining Kyuubi’s taint, so they must have been born with an abnormally high chakra reserves much like Kisame. The appearance of these legendary weapons themselves raises some interesting points:

1. The brothers possess only 4 of 5 weapons. How did the two brothers come into possession so many valuable artifacts? Who has the fifth weapon? And why do I get the feeling it’s going to be important.
2. The weapons are perfect for a Jinchuurikis as they have enough chakra to counter the side effects; I wouldn’t mind if Naruto got his hands on one after the brothers are defeated.
3. Despite how supposedly powerful they are, three of the weapons (the sword, rope and gourd) are kind of awkward in function because they’re not much use unless comboed together. Plus, the function of the gourd is pointless if an affected ninja simply had the discipline to keep his/her yap shut.
4. The weapons appear to be bound to the brothers so that even after they are summoned from the dead, they still can be used. This point was also demonstrated with the swordsmen. So I bet a similar argument can be made about Itachi and the sword he used (through Susanoo) to trap Orochimaru… does this mean that Kabuto can force an undead Itachi to release Orochimaru? (assuming zombie Itachi still has the power to summon Susanoo)

Lastly, I just found it hilarious that the Gin/Kin brothers’ unique technique is essentially a slap in the face to all character in the series who have annoying, over-used catch-phrases and are natural loudmouths…. Hmmm, can you think of someone who matches that description?

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120 Responses

  1. holla kin/gin whoopin ass, but how come no one else is helping??

    darui got some cool points with the storm technique

    but a big question is how did the gourd suck up samui when she didnt say “cool”, i think thats wierd and since this is an obvious loop hole in the weapons, there gonna be screwed and everyone might as well pack there bags cuz no one can handle them lol

  2. Ok so if silence is the effective way to nullify this technique, how did Samui get sucked up? She didn’t say a word and unless I missed something I can’t figure out how she did.

    Also, if these weapons are based of the Journey To The West, what’s the fifth weapon?

  3. @bob
    in the journey to the west the 5th weapon is a pot and this pot fits it well http://www.mangareader.net/93-51588-3/naruto/chapter-494.html

    it belonged to the 3rd Raikage

    @fire fist
    it will probbley be explained next week how Samui was sealed

  4. lol @bob im thinking they samething. those brothers are bad business for the orange ninja loooooooooool they’re probably more of a treat to naruto than madara lol

  5. maybe…the 5th weapon the fan used by madara

  6. Intresting how the ‘secret words’ for the sibling were their names. Lol.

    Samui = Cool (weather)
    Atsui = Hot, Warm; Hot (thing); Warm (hearted)

  7. @spurs

    I already posted the 5th weapon its the pot in the link

  8. My thoughts on this chapter, it was boring. Kishi made up a lame way for the KinGin Bros to get Kyubi power. That explanation was weak. It’s like he just didn’t care. The most powerful Biju couldn’t digest two guys? Really? Really? At this point I just many start saying Pain can over power that fat old fox again.

    *takes Envy’s cred*

    I posted it first *smug look*

    Now I post my comment again:

    ““The five treasures in “Journey to the West” were the Amber Purifying Pot, the Seven Star Sword, the Banana Palm Fan, the Golden Canopy Rope and the Crimson Gourd, the only one Kin and Gin don’t have is the pot which I think might be where the Third Raikage sealed the Eight Tails many years ago.
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-51588-3/naruto/chapter-494.html

    And I posted this 2 weeks ago:

    “Fun fact: Kinkaku and Ginkaku in “Journey To The West” have a magical gourd that can suck everyone in and turn them into alcohol. This chapter’s Kin-Gin bros’ shoulders are Kin(gold) and Gin(silver), while Bee’s tattoo read’s Tetsu(iron), so looks like Kishi is really going for a full shout out here. “” :/

  9. Sasuke’s secret word would be “power” or “revenge”

    Naruto’s is clearly “Dattebayo”

    Sakura’s is “SASUKE-KUN!!!!!”

    Hinata’s is “uhm uhm uhm”

    Shikamaru “drag/troublesome”

    Mine would be “damn”

    @Zep, your forgiven cuz you write good fics 😉

  10. You beat me to it kisu though i only thought of naruto, sasuke, and shikamaru’s lines.

  11. Damn you Kisu Damn you

    anyway Pain’s word would be Peace or Pain or I am God

    Madara’s would be his own name he tries to get the point across enough

    does the Kyuubi even have a digestive system its made of Chakra and it does not have to eat so they may be able live in the belly

  12. lol @ Sakura’s catch phrase, but it’s definitely SHANNARO!!!

    Some others that come to mind
    Tsunade’s: sake
    Deidara: Hmmm
    Jiraiya: Boobies!

  13. Pretty average chapter. I disagree with you Bob i think The Gin/Kin brothers are obtaining Kyuubi’s chakra before wielding the weapons. If not then with these weapons they will able to defeat the kyuubi himself

  14. Good post Bob. It would make sense that the last of the 5 items would make an appearance later on, we were told about the 7-swordsmen and they all made an appearance eventually.

    Seems that the Cloud was always stealing things from the Land of Fire. They stole the Sage of Six Path’s weapons, they tried to steal Kushina, and the Byakugan. I guess as the Raikage pointed out the Leaf had been hard to take down and the Cloud was playing as dirty as possible to do that.

    I also found it interesting that the Cloud and Leaf formed an alliance with the 2nd Hokage & Raikage; yet it fell apart later. When this is all over, I don’t expect Kishi to have written every detail in the manga, but it would be nice to have an outline/timeline of events like:

    Yr 1 Sage of Six Paths is born.
    Yr 10 Sage of Six Paths unlocks Rin’negan… etc.

    That is probably a lot to ask though…

  15. @ripcord

    Yeah, all of us are waiting for more SOSP’s life. Hope we will get at least some bit of information when there will be Tobi’s final arc

    Nice to see that Kishi is pulling everything from his sleeve in this war. Kin/Gin as Bob said not very interesting characters.

    Now just speculating from were seven swordsmen got their weapons and also Kin/Gin. I can’t imagine that someone would threw away such unique weapons/artefacts , so my opinion is that this collection was collected by both Oro/Kabuto. So, there is a high chance that Kabuto posess 5th Sage’s artefact.

  16. @kisu & bob

    You guys forgot:

    Might Guy: Power of Youth!
    KillerBee: Yo!
    Omoi: worried
    Shino: bug
    Kiba: Generic complaining… I’m sure he’ll say the word soon enough.

    Well that’s all I got for now. By the way, does the alliance have ANY mythical weapons left at its disposal? I guess that 5th SOSP weapon is a possibility, but right now it feels like Kabuto/Akatsuki has all of them. There is also Chojiro’s sword… I can’t think of any others.

  17. are all you guys thinking these brothers are gonna swallow EVERYONE! ??? lol

  18. Ok the 3rd raikage has the pot which was proven. My ? Is how the heck did he get it? My guess is the second raikage had it and left it to the 3rd after the brothers attacked him and the second hokage

  19. Lee: Guy Sensei!

  20. @Mattmaru

    No, but it is fun to think about all the catch-phrases we’ve seen so far.

  21. @ fightingspirit7
    dude that is sooooooo true too lmao

    and all these catch phrases… maybe kishi had a plan for this all along lmao. kishi “i think ill give everyone a catchphrase that way i can introduce a villian who uses those phrases against them while we fight”

    i can see him thinking that somewhere at the beginnning hahahaha

  22. i think that the brothers weapons are kinda cool… In a shinobi’s world they are trained to move in silence so a weapon that used their words against them is kinda unique in that aspect…. but this isnt the first time ive seen this technique in manga/ anime…. If anyone remembers Yu Yu Hakusho, Chapter Black one of the guys that went to to Genki for help had the power of taboo, which is any word that is made illegal in his territory, or said with phonics would cause the rule break to loose his/her soul. I’m thinking that is what caused the other ninja to be captured by the gourd.

  23. guys i gotta feelin that obito is gonna make an appearance soon.

  24. spoiler alert!! lol

  25. Okay this may be a stupid question but couldn’t their most used word be the name of their technique? I mean Naruto says Rasengan every time you see him practically, but I guess his word would be dattebayo.

  26. great post bob but on comment on the color scene from the hokage madara fight. ok is it possible that kin and gin are related to naruto look at the whiskers and the uzumaki clan was suppose to be great sealers. look at the jutsu sealing weapons huge chakra needed and the had them when they fought the the nine tails

  27. I don’t get how the gin kin brothers got 9 tails power. It states the cloud were trying to capture the 9 tails but didnt the first hokages wife already have the 9 tails sealed inside of her? And judging from the panel shown the 9 tails seemed to be free and untamed. Can anyone explain it to me I’m lost

  28. @a lost shinobi

    The 1st Hokage & 2nd are close in age, so all of this happened close together.

    The 9-tails was not captured by Hashirama until after his fight with Madara, so before then it roamed free. As it roamed free, I am sure many villages tried to capture it, including the Cloud. Sometime after the Kyuubi spat them out, Madara took control of it and tried to kill Hashirama.

  29. @ Rip: very good analysis. That actually makes sense, which is more than Kishi has done. lol.

    Choji: Bar-B-Q
    Neji: Byakugan
    Ten-Ten: Tools
    Kankuro: Puppet
    Gaara: Sand
    Temari: Wind
    Kakashi: Raikiri ( Lightning Blade)
    Bender: ASS. lol. (couldn’t resist.)

  30. @ rip that makes sense thanks

  31. the 2nd hokage sucks. I don’t care what jutsu’s he invented he seems to constantly get his ass kicked by the cloud nin

  32. I gotta admit, the second hokage is so undermined in the Naruverse to the point it ticks me off, he seems like the most quiet, strongest kage of his time and yet he couldn’t handle an ambush on his life by some other village, couldn’t handle the Gin/Kin brother (unless those two are clossely related) and sure as hell couldn’t handle a woman cuz I don’t see any lineage on his part! His fabled Reanimation technique is getting hacked by one of the least important starting charcters in Naruto.

  33. i figured it out. i know who tobi is. none other than the 2nd hokage. think about it, he knows time space jutsu, tobi knows time space jutsu, he killed mardara and the first hokage to get the sharingan at the valley of the end. isnt his name tobirama. he some how used an animation jutsu to put his soul in madara body. remember i figured it out first. it required a lesser mind…lol

  34. @zepwolf
    ha ha ha its “kiss ny shiny metal ass”

  35. @ripcord, good explanation, but it doesn’t make sense. Tobirama was Kage in the flashback this chapter, which could only mean Hashirama either died or gave him the position and retired. So far everything in the story points to Hashirama dying before Tobirama and passing it on that way.

  36. @kisu
    If u remember there could be 2 kages in the same time of course I’m talking about 3rd and 4th, who were kages at the same time. Something similar could happened also with 1st and 2nd so I think ripcord’s explanation is valid, maybe it is not true, but it does make sense

  37. @bloodjust: ‘… couldn’t handle a woman…’ hahaha LOL!
    @teamevolution: I would go so far as to say he’s tobi, (plus i think that would be a weak plot ‘twist’) but he certainly is a curious character. For someo who appears to be the better part of über powerful, he was constantly losing out to the cloud.
    As far as the chapter goes, as a fan of journey to the West (did anyone watch the live action version?), it was a good shout out.
    @everyone who felt that chapters showing the different sides of the war slowed the pace down. I’d have to say that chapters like this one do that to a much more intense degree.
    PS: THE MONKEY KING in Japanese is SON GOKU. Bob alluded to this, but i think for those who didn’t know it just goes to show how important Journey to the West was to manga.

  38. The second hokage can’t be tobi his soul is sealed with the 1st and 3rds

  39. The second hokage can’t be tobi his soul is sealed with the 1st and 3rds and if somehow he is tobi kishi will tons of explaining to do

  40. @bringer: it’s most used ‘word’, not ‘phrase’. lol.
    @teamvolution: you’re kidding, right? tell me that was a joke. it has to be.
    @Kisu: thanks for the compliment and the forgiveness. lol.

  41. People, people, you are underestimating the Second Hokage, if you remember in the Danzo flash back, as he was going to die, they were being chased by the Kingaku and Gingaku forces, I found it funny how the two bro’s were making fun of the Second Hokage, call him a dead ass in the last chapter, and all they could do with 20 plus members was only bring him to the verge of death. It’s laughable, even with those hack weapons that’s all they could do, they are weak and the I wouldn’t be surprised if they were in fact killed by the Second during their encounter. I agree with Kisu, they are fodder villains, not that interesting, cop out powers and weapons, but still want to see them fight. hahaha

  42. @ john those 20 cloud nins killed the second and the kin gin brothers attack was on the second hokage and raikage which he was left on the verge of death.

  43. @john yea they attacked the second hokage twice. The first time was when they left him on the verge of death and the second time was when we assume they were in the cloud nin group That killed him. And @a lost shinobi I fully agree with u in terms of the second being weak. In his time he may have been quite elite but the more I hear about him the less I’m impressed. At first glance we heard he was strong but then both he and the first lost to the third who wasn’t half as strong as he probably was in his prime. Than we hear that he died against the cloud nin forces (although in fairness we r not sure how strong all the ninja were. We could assume they were pretty badass considering that the second thought he along with danzo the third and the rest of his group together couldn’t handle them but we will never know ) and now it sounds as if He almost died to these two by themselves. I’m sorry but the second seems to me to be the weakest hokage.

  44. @kisu

    Your problem is you believe they got the 9-tails taint AFTER the attempt on the 2nd Hokage’s life. I believe this occured before, way before. The years are arbitrary, just to break it up.

    Yr1: Leaf is founded, Hashirama becomes Hokage, Madara is pissed and he leaves the village. Cloud is also founded to counter the Leaf. Cloud attempts to capture Kyuubi, Kin-Gin get swallowed, Cloud fails. 2 wks later, Kin-Gin get spat out.

    Yr2 or late yr 1: Madara gets his hands on the Kyuubi and fights Hashirama. 1st Hokage takes Kyuubi for himself.

    Yr3: Hashirama gives bijuu to other villages, to broker piece AND because he is on verge of death (from fight with Madara).

    Yr5: Cloud & Leaf enter alliance, Kin-Gin attempt coup.

    Yr10: Alliance breaks down, Cloud Hunter nins kill 2nd Hokage, Sarutobi becomes the 3rd.

    Does that make sense now?

  45. @rip: in a way it does. I mean who’s to assume Konoha was the only village to be founder at that time. I don’t remember Kishi stating that Konoha was the first village to be founded. And if it was, let’s say your not from the fire country, you wouldn’t like two of the strongest clans joining together. I’ll start a village to counter their power.

  46. @LordErcan, no the Third wasn’t a Kage while the Fourth was in office. The Third was just alive. He had retired.

    @rip, ok now I get what you’re saying, but everything is still dubious. Kishi needs to set up a timeline because I could make up a timeline like you but with way different interpretations and still not be wrong.

  47. @Kisu: Kishi need to get his act together, period. lol.

  48. @kisu

    I’m just giving Kishi the benefit of the doubt until he’s done. You are right though, it was not well explained in the manga and I am speculating.

  49. @ kisu

    who said that when the fourth hokage was in office the 3rd wasnt still the third hokage? they still retain their titles even i they arent the current one. it would just mean that the fourth hokage supersedes the third hokage as the leader. i mean we still refer to all the dead kages as their respective titles even tho they r dead.

  50. @chakrabeast, you misunderstood. When I say he was no longer Kage I meant he retired from the position and gave it to Minato which means the Fourth was the leader or Konoha, not Hiruzen.

  51. Well the tailed beasts are nothing more than visible chakra in animal form.(weird animals but animals nonetheless) as strong as these guys are it’s believeable that they survived being swallowed up by the kyuubi. It’s not like it can actually eat them like living species can.

  52. I think you ppl are forgetting that when the 2nd hokage died he had along with him, hiruzen the god of shinobi, danzo who is pretty powerful, slinger with other shinobi who I’d say should be at least somewhat powerful, what I’m saying is that his death doesn’t make since first of all why you wouldn’t take a chance fighting when you have a group of strong fighters an he had some pretty bad techniques that should have at least allowed him to escape idk his death just don’t make since to me at all

  53. @Minatofan: your writing doesn’t make ‘since’ to me. lol. jk, dude.

  54. @Token and (a lost shinobi)
    That is assuming the coup de’ ta ambush wasn’t the same attack, as that time that the Second had Hiruzen and Danzo, with him. Think about it, why would the Hokage be outside on a simple mission, It would have to be something really, really important for the Hokage to drag his ass out, like I don’t know make peace arrangement with the Second Raikage! The way I see it, the Kin and Gin Bros got one shot at the Second Hokage and failed, while they probably took out the Second Raikage, I don’t really know. To put it simply, that Danzo flash back was the attempted coup de’ ta of the Kin Gin Bros. Why else would the Second be outside the village with only a few escorts? It’s just like the Five Kage Summit only bring a couple of your shinobi when you are in the presence of other Kage. That being said even with those twenty extra people, who were probably Anbu level, which means, fodder and distractions. lol. the Kin Gin Bros. couldn’t cut it with their legendary weapons and hyped up chakra.

  55. Zepwolfx haha I probably don’t make much sense at all

  56. apart from minatofans spelling j.k. he has a good point and i think others have mentioned about the second hokage being taken down by 20 soldiers before. perhaps this was apart of his bigger plan… such as madara not actually dying when he faught the first…

  57. As, someone had pointed out above. Tobi can’t be the Second hokage aka Tobirama, because HE WAS SUMMONED by Oro with his edo tensei then sealed by 3rd death god technique.

  58. @John, yeah except Tobirama survived the KinGin bros’ assault. In Danzo’s flashback he went off and died.

  59. in danzo’s flashback tobirama went off and didnt return we cant be sure he died at the hands of the kingin bros and about tobirama being tobi, the reaper death seal is his technique he created it so whos to say he doesnt have a way of escaping the belly of the reaper that only he knows how to do

  60. to me there is a possibility of tobi being the second hokage i just cant come up with a motive as to why he wud be doing all of this if he is. also on obito being tobi, i think kakashi wud have had some sort of flashback or memory or something of him and obito wen he first saw tobi’s sharingan wen they were going after sasuke during the sasuke vs itachi arc

  61. @Kisu
    It is also possible that he didn’t die, but he was to messed up to resume the Hokage title after from Hiruzen who he had just named, afterall the main purpose of Danzo’s flashback was to explore Hiruzen gaining the Hokage title and their rivalry, not to explore the Seconds death. Afterall his death wasn’t seen and as we all know, if you don’t see someone die their is a strong chance they are alive, the Second’s dead that’s for sure we can deduce that from the Edo Tensei, but he might not have died from the Kin Gin encounter, maybe the injuries did him in…

  62. @FastNinja

    Tobirama did not create Shikki Fuuin. It has to be an Uzumaki technique.

  63. @ripcord

    oh okay my mistake but although he didnt create the technique wat if he still found a way to escape the reapers belly by expanding the jutsu i mean its possible isnt it? we know little to nothing about the second hokage as it is we cant even be sure how exactly he died let alone the extent of his powers and wat he cud do

  64. oh and ive been reading these posts since forever i just never posted myself until today =)

  65. Welcome to the forums FastNinja. It is possible, but the 2nd Hokage wasn’t really in control when the 3rd sealed him away and I doubt he really foresaw that moment.

    If the 2nd Hokage did have a way of coming back, it would be reviving on his OWN from the netherworld which is possible and would be a huge twist.

  66. @ripcord, Shiki Fujin is an Uzumaki technique? Where was this stated?

  67. @ripcord and kisu; its never been fully stated who create dthe technique however given that only the third and fourth used it, its quite possible that either one created it (although i would say that the third made it due to the fact he was able to use it also so perhaps the third taught it to minato?)

  68. i dont believe the third created the technique cus wen kabuto summoned the the second tsuchikage the third mizukage and raikage and the fourth kazekage they refer to it as tobirama’s technique along with a few others at different times in the manga did. i dont recall anyone saying that the reaper death seal is hiruzen’s jutsu despite the fact that he can use it and we dont know if tobirama ever used it cus we know damn near nothing about the guy =( i wanna know more about the second cus they dont make just anyone a kage even if your related to one and given the era in which tobirama was hokage while conflicts were arising i think he must hav been pretty badass depsite the fact that we’ve only seen him get wrecked by cloud ninja on more than one occasion

  69. to think that the kin-gin brothers left the 2nd hokage on the verge of death when he possessed such jutsu as impure world resurrection…

    I wonder who end up taking down the kin-gin brothers? :/

  70. @fast ninja edo tensei is the seconds technique. The reaper and edition tensei r two different jutsu. All We have been told is the third and fourth used the dead demon reaper That’s all we know have used it so its plausible one of them created it

  71. Edo*

  72. @thanx for the correction i thought they were the same thing

    im gonna go off topic here and say that i think that the fourth kazekage is gonna be badass strength wise although most of you mite think hes weak cus of how he died but his opponents were oro who i dont hav to go into detail how strong he his im sure we all kno, kimimaro who almost killed gaara before he had his bijuu extracted and kabuto while he was just a med ninja but still cud put up a good fight. and the fourth kazekage was pretty young so its understandable he died fighting oro along with two other powerful shinobi

  73. @Fastninja, welcome. Anyway, the Fourth Kazekage died like a bitch if you take the anime as canon lol.

    5:49 in this video

  74. Not exactly sure how that counts as much.. anime can hardly ever be counted as canon and that scene seems like ur typical animen scene where they just get to the point and dont explain much. I mean honestly gaara in that timeskip could last longer according to the anime scene. I think that kishi should give a flashback to that day when the fourth kazekage is brought into battle to give us a glimpse of is true power

  75. btw even in that scene kabuto states “EVEN the sand kazekage is no match for us” and shortly after oro says this is all thanks to you kimmimaro sooooo even by ur own evidence it was a joint effort it would seem from the group of them against the fourth kazekage

  76. what the hell’s happening with the drafting, it’s getting sloppy, messy every week. kishi, don’t make this the same as the animation, f”in sloppy!!

  77. yeah the poor fourth kazekage is getting a good beating here. in all fairness, he was up against oro, kabuto and kimmimaro. all he had was two guards who were probably nothing spectacular. he probably did put up a good fight but we will probably never know.

  78. @kisu

    I am going off of 2 things:

    1. Shikki Fuuin is a powerful sealing technique.
    2. Kushina knew ALL about it.

    This suggests to me that it is an Uzumaki creation.

    I am baffled by one thing though: when the 3rd Hokage used it, he said “so this is the death god that the 4th spoke of” when they didn’t even SPEAK when Minato used the technique.
    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-122/13/
    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-504/05/

    The only way I could reconcile that is if Minato told the Saindame about it earlier as a new powerful sealing technique, meaning Minato knew about it first. There is no way that Sarutobi created it.

  79. i would of thought that Kushina would of taught Shiki Fujin to Minato as it seems that its the uzumaki symbol in the middle but i might be wrong! he did make it his own when he added the reverse summoning seal with it aswel as he mentioned.

  80. @mattmaru

    The Uzumaki symbol probably came FROM the shape the seals make; Naruto’s 8-trigrams seal has a similar shape as well.

  81. Well yeah they are very similar probably because they came from someone who created them out of the Uzumaki clan i would imagine! the 8 trigam seal seems to be a modified verison of Shiki Fūjin. they look almost identical anyways if you look at both of them!

  82. that anime scene is def. inaccurate. a bunch of dead sand shinobi and the kazekage just standing still while wearing his kage uniform? it looks as if he didnt even put a struggle let alone give them ” a match” as kabuto stated. mite as well just call him a daimyo on a count of how helpless the anime made him out to be lol poor guy he’s just misunderstood… i hope o_0

  83. In my opinion if we had a Kage battle royale, i think that the leaf’s kages would come second from last, and that’s only because the sand is generally weak, i mean as much as gaara is in my top 5 favourite characters, one has to question the fighting ability of a village that makes a 15yr old their leader!

  84. You didnt do a good job explaining why the Hokage’s would come second to last, you only gave a bried explanation as to why the Kazekage’s would be last.

  85. Well, if you think about it:

    Iwa has been fighting with Suna for a long time, so that means Suna is about even with Iwa.

    Konoha vs Cloud vs Mist so those must be about even. That’s my take anyway.

  86. if were talking current kages then tsunade is def. the weakest. all we see her do is summoning and super strength.

  87. @token I don’t get what you’re getting at? I said “Anyway, the Fourth Kazekage died like a bitch if you take the anime as canon lol.” I wasn’t arguing against anything FastNinja said, just sharing in the fun.

    @ripcord, I prefer to believe the Shiki Fujin has always been a Konoha technique. Another thing, Kishimoto already ranked the villages in 2009. The strongest Village is Kumo (after Kumo is Iwa, then Konoha then Kiri) and the weakest is Suna.

  88. Of current kages Fast i wouldnt be to sure. I would have to say its quite possible that mei may in fact be the weakest. The raikage has shown that he is one of the stronger ninja, the tsuchikage has shown to be quite forminable even in his old age, gaara has shown that despite his young age he still has skills and I am positive that the alliance would not have put him as a head general if he was weak and tsunade has shown to be a great hand to hand combatant going toe to toe vs oro even while paralyzed by her fear and already in a weakened state. Mei hasnt shown much and so I would have to say that Mei is the weakest, followed by gaara and than tsunade.

  89. @kisu lol all i was sayin was the anime was a joke of a flashback and im not even sure y it was brought up

  90. @token

    tsunade did showcase what shes capable quite well against oro but she had jiraiya’s help and at the time oro arms were lifeless and he cudnt do any jutsu that required hand seals and he was still holding his own against the both of them. and i think the opposite of wat u stated about mei possibly being the weakest. she has the job of not only guarding her country’s daimyo but all the others as well and we all kno how valuable the daimyos are to their countries(which i still cant understand why they seem like a bunch of dummies to me -_-) as stated in an earlier post by someone(cant remember who sed this and to lazy to check) the daimyos are like the president of the U.S. and we all kno how important the president is and how much security he has at all times. their normal armies of body guards are off fighting the war so for the five kages to send mei and few other ninja who are probably decent but still fodder(not chojuro i think hes badass) that says a lot. so she kind of has to be powerful to be given that responsibility also the five kage kno or let me say think they kno who theyre dealing with which is allegedly the legendary madara uchiha

  91. legendary madara uchiha lol

    @token, I dont take the anime as canon, which is why I said “if you take the anime as canon”. The anime contradicts itself too much to be a really credible source.

  92. ok heres another tobi theory =) [if u feel a strong urge to flame please go easy]

    is it possible that tobi is madara but undead through edo tensei? i mean if it is the real madara how else wud he be immortal? cud the fight between him and hashirama have been planned by him and tobirama? cud the coffin that kabuto showed tobi have been tobirama? given as to how little we kno about tobirama i think its plausible but im just saying this without checking if it can even be possible

  93. @FastNinja, no it isnt. Tobi ripped off his limbs many times but they never regenerated like Edo Tensei zombies’ limbs do.

  94. the daimyos are useless if the are presidents than the kages are four star generals or five if you like the army my point is a daimyo can be killed and you just get a new one but if a kage was killed you can’t just get a new one cause that person has to be capable of great things. as of right now mei is fodder at least one kage will fall and it is her she is with the daimyos not because she is strong but cause she is useless in this war

  95. @kisu oh kool ok thanx

    things im dying to kno:
    1. who in gods green earth is tobi
    2. more about tobirama
    3. wats the other jutsu that kabuto has up his sleeve

    things im dying to see:
    1. tobi join the war and demolish the joint forces
    2. black zetsu fight somebody anybody
    3. fourth kazekage vs gaara
    4. kakashi raging against the seven swordsmen
    5. oro make a comeback somehow

  96. @fast while it is true oro went against the two of them remember jiryia was drugged and tsunade was in a state of shock and was being beaten up before she squared off vs oro. Mei has shown Nothing up to this point and all we’ve seen her do is spit. The daimyos r not that useful and like king said they r replaceable while the kages do the tough work like having to deal with politics and defend the villages if attacked. The daimyos r just tucked away so as not to break a nail

  97. @token

    well thats all true. to us the daimyos are replaceable but to their countrys and the kages they are valuable or else they wudnt put mei on guard duty cus even if she is weak shes still the leader of the hidden mist. and i like to have faith in people so although we’ve seen absolutely nothing special from mei ill give her the benefit of the doubt cus she is a kage either way and u cant be completey fodder and be given the title of kage no matter how weak your village is.

  98. oh yea and another thing i want to see is hidan!!!! hes too awesome =)

  99. @ripcord: i was talkin about a battle of the kages, not the villages. I am just not impressed by hokages. The 1st is a glorified yamato, the 2nd for all his strength (edo and his allegedly hectic water jutsu) got pwned by 20ninja (yes elites but we’d expect more from a kage), 3rd allegedly knew a lot of jutsu but in his whole arsenal didn’t have a technique to seal oro’s edo summons (bearing in mind it was his teacher’s technique-other villages knew a lot about it, surely his student would have either learned it or have an intimate knowledge of it). The 4th epic vs fodder ninja ftg ends there not really for use against elites. 5th well we haven’t seen her do diddly squat except almost die.
    Compare that to an untraceable, dust release user, a super fast, super strong lightning user, a storm release user, a metal ‘sand’ user, etc and they don’t seem worthy of their titles. As a village konoha is fortunate to have strong ninja per capita, but it’s leadership isn’t comparatively potent. And i say this as a collective not as individuals
    @fastninja: the daimyos more important than a president. I’d liken them more to a royal family like the british one. Where they don’t rule on a policy level or make decisions. But believe you me if a war is meant to break out the queen must agree and if the UK were to be attacked they’d be protected by the best. Basically the daimyos power comes from tradition and divine right not from popular vote or them actually being able to do anything.

  100. So kumo and Iwa are stronger now! is that because the Uchiha clan has been wiped out and that they have a jinnchikuri that can control his Bijuu? I wouldnt know why Iwa is stronger then Konoha though!

  101. I think the reaper is jutsu that 4th created, but it is based on the Uzumaki’s tehnicques, same as hakke fuijin.

  102. Also I do not know why, but I think shiki fuijin is incomplete, unfinshed, the missing part, which should allow that user execute the technique without dying.

  103. @augustus: I don think the shiki fuigin is incomplete. If it didnt have such a high drawback, aside from using a lot of chakra I am sure, then it wouldn’t be such a respected technique. I mean without such a high price it would get used all the time. There wouldn’t be any consequences and therefore it would become like the reanimation jutsu that Kabuto is using so crazily. I am sure though that Kabuto’s technique must have some kind of price aside from a living sacrifice. Grant it, he probably found some crazy way of dulling the side affects or something. My point is that the shiki fuigin should be left the way it is. Ninja should keep there reverance for some techniques. When jutsu get to insanely powerful and overused they lose there appeal and become just like anything else. What makes them special and cool is there rarity and mystery.

  104. @uchihatrinity: Absolutely agree with you, that excessive use, and if everyone could use this technique, it wouldnt be s class respected jutsu.

    It’s just me, some crazy thoughts going on in my head, that In the end Naruto could learn to use this technique without consequences, but in a special way that only he can do. So that would make him unique and special, such as rikudo sage was.

  105. @augustus

    We already have that technique, it’s called the “Rinnegan.” I think giving anything else that kind of power cheapens the legacy of the Sage Six Paths.

  106. I still think Naruto is going to get the Rinnegan, by taking either Sasuke’s eye’s to defeat the final villan, Kabuto(more and more likely)Orochimaru(becoming more plausable)Madara(Tobi, 2nd Hokage, Obito, Rin, Kakashi, Elmo, Darth Vader, Raphael from the Ninja Turtles, Tom from Myspace), or by using Itachi’s gift which could be his ocular powers like how he gave them to Sasuke, except Naruto uses them to an amplified version, because he already has the bloodline to use the Rinnegan i.e. Uzumaki and has Uchiha chakra( Itachi’s gift). This is the more likely of the two.

  107. @Uchiha The Infamous

    Itachi’s gift to Naruto is clearly to combat Sasuke in some way, and that’s that. Itachi gave it to Naruto ONLY after he was statisfied that Naruto would do whatever it took to save Sasuke and the village together. I think the context of Itachi’s “crow mail” makes it all but certain that it has to do with dealing with Sasuke in the future.

    I highly doubt it has anything to do with the Rinnegan, unless the Rinnegan is specifically as a counter to Sasuke, but that seems like too much to me. Besides, we’ve already seen an Uzumaki who could withstand the Rinnegan without any Uchiha cells/influence: Nagato.

  108. I agree to a certain extent, ripcord, but the gift could be Naruto putting Sasuke in some sort of genjutsu that Itachi specifically placed in Naruto. This is highly likely because Naruto has never been good at it, and it has been stated many times. This could be a form a foreshadowing, and we all know Kishi’s most favorite way of writing genjutsu into the story is through the ocular jutsu of the Uchiha, and what ocular jutsu is Naruto more likely to be able to get a Sharingan or Rinnegan. I think Rinnegan since it can only be handled by someone with an Uzumaki body. Plus, they are continually amping Naruto up to be the new SOSP. He already has the ideals and principles of the sage, now he has the body, what’s last other than the eyes?

  109. This is all just a theory though.

  110. @Uchiha The Infamous

    Yes, it would make sense if it was a Tsukyomi, since Sasuke “beat” Itachi’s in their fight, and he sealed an Amaterasu in Sasuke, so it would make sense that he sealed his other MS power in Naruto… and due to Naruto’s Uzumaki lineage he might be able to stand it. This is the point I was making.

    Personally, I don’t see Naruto getting a Doujutsu at all: he is a shinobi of hard work, just like Jiraiya, a “genious” ability like the Rin’negan doesn’t suit him.

  111. lol I remember back in Part 1 when you could legitimately call Naruto a “Shinobi of Hardwork”, but ever since these revelations of his heritage and how they make him special, I’ll take his title and give it to Lee since he deserves it a lot more. Naruto has lost that “underdog appeal”, in my opinion.

  112. eh heritage is all well and good but that doesnt translate to certain dominance of power like naruto has shown…… asuma was the son of one of the best hokages konoha had ever seen and yet he hasnt reached a level close to naruto. Heritage/lineage helps but i cant let that take anything away from naruto. He has still worked his ass off, alot more than kishi’s fav emo kid.

  113. @kisu

    naruto is the jinchuuriki of the nine tails so he has to work extremely hard to control it and in my opinion way harder than lee since all he does is simple taijutsu. and i dont think naruto is going to gain possession of a rinnegan or a sharigan its not his style i cant see him using a doujutsu. i think itachi put some sort of genjutsu or seal inside of naruto so when they confront each other at some point in their reunion itachi will appear and be able to talk to sasuke and get him to change his ways and fight along side the alliance to help stop tobi’s plan. kind of like how minato and kushina sealed away some of their chakra inside naruto so they cud see him as a young adult. but then again idk just a theory

  114. @kisu

    Yes, yes, Naruto’s lineage does take away from his “hard work” image, but if you think about it he couldn’t completely come from a family of schmucks. Although I would say that so far, it would seem that neither of his parents’ families have kekkei genkais so even if they are powerful clans, Naruto still might have to work hard to become powerful too.

  115. Naruto may never get a doujutsu but if he does, remember who called it first, lol. 🙂 It’s all in the sport of good conversation though.

  116. Jump releases will be late this week. Mangastream’s having difficulties

  117. @kisu

    I heard there was a lot of snow in Japan, so the deliveries were late.

  118. @rip, oh that explains it. I’m glad it doesn’t snow where I live. Ever.

  119. Does Madara actually use the fox against Hashirama, i forgot?

  120. @cursedhidan

    yes he does. then hashirama takes control of the fox from him and his wife mito sealed it within herself

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