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Naruto Chapter 509 – More Rinnegan Theories on the Way

naruto-retro1Post Author: Bob

Last week when we were left with the cliffhanger of Konan facing off against Madara, I was wondering whether will follow through and actually commit a whole chapter or two to the actual battle. The reason I say that is because there wasn’t really any built up to this confrontation; it kind of just popped up out of nowhere after all the Kisame business. Also, Kishi has not been known to give his female characters a fair share in terms of action sequences, and the nature of Konan‘s abilities seems to suggest she would not make an effective frontline fighter. But chapter 509 has surprised us by showing that this little lady is not someone to be trifled with.
The outcome of this chapter’s battle surprised me. Konan’s paper technique seems at face value to be a standard jutsu that utilizes physical force to entrap and damage her enemies. By all means, it should had little to no impact on someone with Madara’s talents. But somehow against all odd, Konan inflicts a severe injury to Madara with her suicidal jutsu, and allows us another small glimpse beneath the mystery man’s mask. Heck, she even tops Minato (she got his arm and his face) in the amount of damage she managed to inflict to Madera, that’s very respectable for a kunoichi that hardly gets any screen time. Konan’s epic display of her paper powers on the last page is even more impressive than anything she has created so far, but it feels like she is pushing beyond the safe limits of her powers. It seems this gal is already fully committed to exchange her life at a shot at talking down Madara.
Along with the battle, we’re also presented with a flashback to Konan, Yahiko and Nagato’s past during the beginnings of Akatsuki. The appearance of this flashback should have sealed the fact that Konan is going to die permanently, but this time proved to be an exception to the rules of manga. Indeed Konan lives to see another chapter, she is a little crispy but still very much alive at the end of that suicide explosion — so Konan fans can happily release a sigh of relief. My money is still on Konan not dying in this encounter with Madara because I feel there needs to be some remnant of the old Akatsuki left in order for Nagato to be redeemed, and Konan needs to survive to carry on what that organization originally stood for, or at least pass on the torch to someone like Naruto. As for the contents of the flashback itself, I felt it was a little lacking in actual useful information about what happened during that era in Amegakure. All that talk of bridges to peace and supporting each other came off as just fluff talk as there wasn’t anything presented to back up their pep talk. In the end we learned absolutely about Konan & friends’ pasts than we did prior to the flashback. Personally, I’d like to have seen some scenes about the suffering and selfless sacrifices those kids had to make during the early days of Akatsuki’s founding to further build up the characters of these tragic heroes. That or a flashback of how Madara came to control Akatsuki from the shadows.

Madara hinted at his hand in Akatsuki’s creation and influence on its direction, but like always it’s far from a complete picture. I can believe Madara when he says that he influenced Yahiko to create Akatsuki; after living for so long, Madara would have the knowledge, experience and resources to seed a mercenary-like organization of his own — he just needed the right pawns to manipulate. Yahiko must have been an ideal candidate as whispered promises of a better future into the young shin obi’s ear. What I have a hard time comprehending is Madara’s claim that he was the one who gave Nagato his Rinnegans. Now I can see two interpretations of this statement: 1. Madara meant that he was responsible for causing the war and chain of events that led to Nagato’s activation of his Rinnegans (on the night his parents were murdered); 2. Madara meant he literally ‘gave’ Nagato’s his special eyes. How the latter came about is a very interesting question which I’m sure the Naruto community is already buzzing with theories about. What we know so far about transference of dojutsu abilities in the Naruverse suggests that Madara did it in either of two ways: 1. He somehow transplanted the Rinnegans into Nagato at a young age; or 2. He fathered Nagato — meaning Madara himself must possess the genes for the Rinnegans and must be a direct descendant of the Sage of Six Paths. In truth, both of these scenarios seem pretty whack to me, but we know so little about who this “Madara” truly is that I guess anything is possible at this point. It’s clear that “re-obtaining” the Rinnegans is an important part of Madara’s Moon’s Eye Plan or he wouldn’t be bothering with all this trouble with Konan. Madara must have ’gave’ those eyes to Nagato to utilize his energy to cultivate them to a certain level before he can harvest them. A similar fate awaits Sasuke…


105 Responses

  1. This chapter was certainly very interesting. Madara’s comment about giving Nagato the Rinnegan is very odd. I would think that if Nagato didnt have the Rinnegan naturally that it would come at some cost. Because as we all know the sharingan, when transplanted to a non-uchiha, signifigantly drains the users chakra and stamina. Granted Nagato mentions, when creating the Chibaku Tensei, that his was nothing compared to the moon that the Rikudou Sennin created. So perhaps, if the Rinnegan was not naturally his, then he didnt possess the full potential power that this kekkai genkai holds. Cant wait for the next chapter to find out more.

  2. Madara needs a power boost, asap.

    I hope Madara doesn’t = Obito, or Obito’s body, it would make no sense if it were true… But he looks so much like Obito under that mask. Fuck. >_<

  3. heh, that was nice konan. dont you guys think the artwork are a little bit sloppy in the past few chapters? what the hell’s goin’ on? the anime’s sloppy, now it’s the manga. it’s like bleach, getting sloppier in the preceeding chapters. we’re losing quality nowadays

  4. Also, before people come in here and say OMG MADARA SAVED KONAN HE WOULD HAVE WON, SHE SUCKS. I do believe Madara was actually just saving himself, sucking in the explosion, which also, in turn, saved Konan. I’ve seen a lot of posts of people saying that on other forums, just bleh. Strangely, Madara seems contempt on killing Konan, will he use Kabuto’s Edo Tensei to rez her corpse so she wont have a choice but to tell him where the Rinnegan is? Idk, but normally Madara would try to manipulate his opponents into telling him the info…
    Madara is getting more and more aggresive and impatient?

  5. Triple post, but wtf is with Madara’s arm? After losing it against Torune and Fu did he get a fake one? Then again, there wasn’t much blood there either. Why is there no visible blood anywhere? After seeing what happened to Kisame last chapter I doubt Kishimoto would hold back on showing blood…

  6. You’d think it would be easier for him to use genjutsu on her with his sharignan, but strangely Madara doesn’t seem to use that side of his sharingan powers all that much in battles. The only case I can remember is how he controlled the previous mizukage.

  7. I just realized Madara deliberately put himself in harm’s way to save Konan from the explosion, as he still needs to know where Nagato is hidden

  8. Awesome chapter. Konan made a sea of paper XD! She a rare species indeed, “Usefulius Kunoichius”. They’re an endangered species these days.

    @Bob, I think your first idea was the right one. Madara probably set up most of the negative events in Nagato’s life and is thus responsible for Nagato awakening his Rinnegan.

  9. i am only going to say this once and i hope someone saves this or remembers this, the whole mystery behind the so called madara goes something like this obito+shisui+kakashi=something big.
    the reason i say this is because, one obito is important in the naruto world for two reasons, and these are big reasons.
    1. he changed kakashi from being a cold-hearted shinobi that only cares about the missions and fuck everything else, if u got caught during a mission then oh well, u are expendable. now he cares for his nakama, and hell they even made the last movie dealing with his idealology.
    2. this is the biggest impact that obito has on the manga. HE PROVED THAT U DIDN’T HAVE TO BORN WITH THE BLOODLINE TRAIT IN ORDER TO HAVE THE EYE JUTSU. that in itself is big enough, after kakashi told how he was able to have a sharingan then all of these stories started to pop up about eye transplant and killing best friends and brothers taking each others eyes. then u have danzo whom has an arm full of sharingans.
    Next we are gonna throw zetsu in there, this is to me one of the most mysterious characters in the series, i mean he can make perfect clones and give a “recharge” of chakra, and he eats dead bodies for god knows what reason. Believe it or not most of u guys are saying how kisame was a big part of Akatsuki, but to me zetsu is the only irreplaceable member, he is like a whole support squad split into two. no doubt he has a big role to play in the upcoming mangas, and to tell the truth, i want to hear his story or see his ” flashback” more than i want to see the others. and last but not least Itachi’s friend Shisui(don’t kill me for spelling his name wrong) i u guys have to think, we are first introduce to him when sasuke and naruto have their big battle at the valley of the end. and he was said to be named shisui the teleporter and would accept any mission that would benefit the uchiha clan. it might be me but when itachi got the news that his friend that was like an older brother to him died, it looked to me like itachi was hurt and that feeling of loss activated his MS. ok so that was that, and now years after naruto and sasuke clashed, we are thrown into the kage summit, and now we find out that shisui also has another very important super rare ability to control other people’s minds. that isn’t just something that is thrown into the manga just so we can debate over it. and then holy shit danzo of all ppl has one of his eyes, just one. ppl cut on ur brains please, if this is the only manga/anime that u are into then i feel sorry for u and i know that u won’t understand what i am about to say. but for all of use veteran otaku’s we know that u don’t just put little tidbits in the manga unless it adds up to something big in the end, take bleach, all of the little things with aizen and gin and ichigo have been slowly adding up to explode into all hell awesomeness. japanese manga artists’ writing style is a whole lot different from americans, they actually plan, and if u are in the business of making a popular anime/manga where every week u have to leave ur readers with a cliff hanger so they have to come back next week, then i would blow their damn minds.
    so the secret behind madara lies within those three characters. believe it or not. no naruto, sasuke,the 4th, or oorochimaru isn’t selfproclaimed madara, nor is kakashi. but i do know that this imposter has something to do with kakashi, obito, and shisui. watch.

  10. i was the one who said Konan was going to win this my bet she beats Madara and forces him to bail

  11. This chapter was Epic, the definition of the artwork was the best I’ve seen in awhile. I really can’t see Madara giving Nagato the Rinnegan, unless he helped carry out the pregnancy of Nagato’s mother, or bribed Nagato with baked bread. Nagato never mentioned it nobody. The whole identity of Tobi is so strange to me. We all understand how Oro swaps bodies, but in Tobi’s case I can’t determine his appearance, but I get a feeling Zetsu is some kind of underling or a syfy creation that was created by Tobi in a lab, Who knows.

    Maybe Nagato really isn’t the direct bloodline of the Sage of 6 paths, but rather he is or not, Nagato is still the best

  12. @Bob Yeah, I don’t understand Madara’s game, it isn’t like he got into another huge battle and hurt his eye from then and now.
    This seems to suggest that he is deliberately keeping his techniques a secret. But for him to even hold back against Minato? Madara’s character doesn’t make any sense…
    Furthermore, it is almost like Madara is like an android, him not having the traditional dark colored blood (not to mention barely any is coming out), having what seems to be screws on him, and now he’s reattaching limbs… When he says he is a shell of his former sense, does he mean it in a literal sense?

  13. @brokenbonds, maybe what he means is that the body he has is nothing more than just that, a shell. When he gets his arms ripped off it looks like the stuff that Zetsu makes, so maybe the body he has is just sort of a loner for whatever being or soul is really in there. Going with this theory (probably an old one but oh well) you could make the guess that during his fight with Hashirama that he got defeated so utterly he actually did die but his spirit refused to go and at some point he stumbled onto Zetsu and this is where we are…but I’m hoping it’s Obito haha the appearance and coincidences (sharingan side placement) seem to uncanny to not have a relation.

  14. The idea that Madara is somewhow inhabiting Obito’s body or that Obitio is claiming to be Madara is the best guess as to Tobi’s identity. I mean the warping jutsu that he uses looks exactly like the one that Kakashi uses with Obito’s left eye. So i mean it is pretty irrefutable.

  15. @Kisu/Bob
    Id like to agree on that theory but if Madara had created the events then he mustve known Nagato would inherit it in order to control it and eventually become his, like hes doing to Sasuke. If thats the case then why not kill Nagato, take the eyes, and create the Juubi? Unless Madara didn’t know and he eventually found out. Which I find impossible (he may have resources but he’s not God/Kishi). The only way I see Madara knowing someone would eventually have the Rinnegan is if he 1. He’s that resourceful, 2. The Uchiha Tablet says so or 3. He really is Kishi and has the manga, anime, narutards in Mugen Tsukuyomi………..I doubt 3

  16. @Eagle87 Was it really predicted before, lame =[.
    Anyway, it appears Zetsu may be a mechanic of sorts… Madara and Zetsu have been working together for quiet awhile now, it’s possible he made him a “shell” to host the body of Madara, considering something that appeared similar to Zetsu healed Madara’s arm.

  17. @UchihaTrinity But Kakashi got the right side and Madara got the left side, I came to the understanding that each Mangekyo eye has a unique technique (Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi), not to mention Madara doesn’t even need to activate it to use his space time ninjutsu.

  18. @brokenbonds, I don’t really keep up with all the theorists out there, way too many these days.

    I’m curious as to how Kishi will do the unveiling of “Madara”. That’ll be a chapter to remember.

  19. First of all, kudos to Konan. That was certainly an impressive performance. I had felt she had underlying strength, and here she got a chance to show it. I agree with the idea that Konan should survive to preserve a remnant of the original Akatsuki. The fact that the flashback did not provide any conclusive information may be a hint that this will be true.
    Second, I have to admit that the only plausible way I can see for Tobi’s claim that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan to be true is that he caused the events that allowed for the awakening of the Rinnegan. I find it hard to believe that Tobi could have obtained a set of Rinnegan eyes, and I can’t see him as Nagato’s father. The question would be how he knew Nagato had the Rinnegan in the first place.
    Forgive me for referring to the masked man as Tobi, but I don’t feel it is correct to refer to him as Madara until we have some evidence. I honestly don’t think he really is Madara. Rather, I think it is someone else masquerading as Madara, perhaps even occupying a remnant of Madara’s body. This would explain how Zetzu is involved: he uses a remnant of Madara’s DNA to create clones. Is it possible that Zetzu is actually the one behind all this, passing for Madara as he did for Kisame in the battle with Raikage and Killer Bee?

  20. @Eagle87 Yeah, at this point I think it will either go down as; Madara is in a fake body, or he is controlling said body like what Nagato did. The latter is looking more and more believable considering how the body has screws etc, doesn’t feel pain, fake blood etc… I don’t like the idea of this Tobi being controlled, it has been done before.

  21. @BrokenBonds It is true that Madara is not shown activating his Mangekyou when warping but I still have a feeling that its Obito somehow. And Kakashi has the left while Madara has the right.

  22. hey i just picked this up and noticed this….
    Im pretty sure people have considered this but is it just me or does tobi look like shihui uchiha?!?!
    Recently hurt “madarra”: http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/93055731/15
    and shihui uchiha: http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-459-page-15.html
    the eyes and hair are a little different but say it is shihui then its been a coule years so he might have aged or changed a bit…
    i dunno this is just a theory. if im wrong can someone correct me or anyhting 😀

  23. great chapter by the way!!

  24. okay i wanna say something but i cant!!! every time i try n post my comment it doesnt show up!! >:o
    well anyways has anyone noticed a little reseblance between madarra we jsut saw hurt and shuisui uchiha?!
    shuisui pic can be found during the kage meeting and we all know bout the recent pic of wounded madarra.

  25. sorry i cant put up links cuz everytime i try my comment wont how up >:o

  26. man man man!!! that was a totally awsome chapter!!! i really do hope konan beats the living hell out of madara but lets face it ppl, we all know the real outcome of this part of the story. still i wish it would be the other way around……i hope kishi brings a good twist out of this.that madara giving nagato the rinnegan is a nbit too much to understand but still i truly hope that this will be a good twist.

  27. yoyo madara said my name in this chapter well only the clue part. i know its stupid 😛

  28. I HAVE A QUESTION!!! did kabuto resurect nagato without the renegan?? o_O last time i checked, that resurection jutsu brought back the first hokage iin all his glory–and if konan is still in possesion of nagato’s body and eyes after kabuto’s deed–could you say that we got a ‘clone’ on our hands?? im confused…

  29. For all you people that were saying Konnan’s paper jutsu wouldn’t work in the rain, what do you have to say now?

    This Tobi looks young, & I say “this” Tobi because the one that went up against Minato appeared older. So I’m going with the theory that thier is more than one person acting as Tobi. Perhaps Obito and Shisu.

    But if I’m correct Obito’s body was crushed, so if it is him Zetsu most have repaired his body. And it could be Madara possessing it. If this is correct bad on Minato and Kakashi for not recovering his body and making sure he was actually gone.

    Sadly so far flashbacks equal death so good bye Konnan you were one bad ass chick.

  30. I love Uchihas. They’re so fascinating.

  31. hi everyone. This is my first blog. This sight is truly awesome and I want to take my hat off to Bob and the others who have made this sight the most informative Naruto fan site.

    My comment is on Madara/Obito. I’m sure that everyone knows this but it seems to me that Kabuto, who was Oro’s assistant knows the true idenity of Madra/Obito. Does anyone have any more insight on this. the chapter where kabuto reveals the last coffin to Madra/obito/tobi is chapter 489


  32. sorry everyone the chapter where kabuto implies that he knows Tob/Madras’s Identity is 490

  33. soo….crazy theory but somehow it’s becoming more and more plausible. Tobi is the Sage of the Six Paths! hahah….well…half joking. What we know by now is that Tobi is NOT the real Madara Uchiha, and that the body he’s using is not his original one. So that leaves someone who knows about hundreds of jutsus, is old enough to have experienced most of the shinobi history and manipulate the shinobi world single-handedly, and is jaded enough to have the ambition to take over the world.

  34. Maybe he has the power to awaken doujutsu through eye contact. Seeing as madara seems to be everywhere and knows everything, why wouldn’t he have been able to sense the birth of a descendant of the SoSP and then warp to there and maybe just simply congratulate nagato’s parents, look madara in the eye and awaken the rinnegan? Nagato most likely had the genes for his eyes madara was the trigger. And finally a chapter worth commenting on. I found guy’s battle too boring and most of the others just not capable of getting me excited.
    @Bob: great post

  35. I think Tobi’s space-time ninjutsu is the jutsu that he got when he obtained his EMS. Remember that you get an extra jutsu or something when you get it.

  36. Madara i believe is Obito,or Obito’s body as this is my belief it is not up for challenge merely discussion.

    We have confirmation that they do look similar.
    Obito left his right sharingan eye intact in his body.
    he died, but we never saw the removal of his body…
    Kakashi contains his left eye which uses ofensive space time ninjutsu Madara’s eye uses the exact oppisite… COULD IT BE THEY WERE MENT TO BE A PAIR?

    my beliefs untill i can be convinced otherwise

  37. Great post Bob, once against I’ll say the reason why I love Konan is partly because she is the strongest female ninja we’ve come across but what makes her great to me is the Uniqueness of her ability, paper ninjutsu! I think this is what made Gaara so popular, his sand ninjutsu was unique.

  38. its interesting that tobi said,”dont underestimate the eye powers of an uchiha child”

  39. http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-242-page-17.html

    I say Tobi’s face looks an aweful like Obito’s in this shot from kakashi gaiden.

    I say, what is the POINT of showing Kakashi Gaiden, I get that it is an interesting story, and we understand Kakashi a little better, but Obito’s comment of being able to see the future now that Kakashi has his sharingan…. that has always stood out with me.

  40. Why is it that “madaras” body all black? And this just made things more confusing need answers

  41. i don’t want to offend anyone, but its hard to tell by a half broken mask and bandages wrapped around, as to what madara/tobi/ etc looks like, especially when most of the uchihas look so similar.

    there are so many possibilities as to who madara is, although as with most villains, it is not the most obvious, but the person in the background that turns out to be the true identity. you know like with the murder who done its and its the supposed good guy turned evil. hopefully that makes sense to someone other than me 🙂

    konan, you go girl, i really don’t think its time for her to go yet. lets hope she sticks around.

  42. @eaglesfan10 i think you have a good point about madara awakening the rinnegan with his eyes. isn’t that what happened with sasuke to awaken his new powers?

  43. yo, i think madara by saying that he gave Nagato rinnegan means maybe that he was the one to train him or smth? Maybe he showed Nagato how to use it properly – Jirayas training after all was very basic. Him knowing all the secrets of sharingan allowed him to also teach the use of rinnegan.

  44. anyone suppose it could be Izuna, Maybe Izuna faked his own Death, madara was thought to be dead at the valley of the end after fighting his fight with hashirama. and is seeking revenge for madara’s death, hence why he would be shocked when he saw kabuto’s coffin

  45. one thing i understood from the flashbacks is that konan loved yahiko in a romantic way, but she’s such a great woman who wouldn’t put that above the greater cause. yahiko on the other hand, was an even greater person; he probably knew konan loves him, he notices all the hints, but he’d always ask her to stay at nagato’s side, he’s the embodiment of self sacrifice 🙂
    it’s only natural for konan to think about the person she loved first then the organization they all believed in second, but she’d step on her heart and work for the greater cause, the cause they all believed in and fought for, the bridge she supported on the price of her heart.

    on the other hand, i’d support your second guess bob, i would think implanting the rennigans would need more “work” than that with the sharingan or byakugans. the rennigan might need a special host to be “nurtured” first, since the originals weren’t there and he probably got his hands on the DNA, then when the growth is complete, he would be able to re-transplant them to any other vessel, or more specifically, HIS vessel (Body). but u’ll never know, he might even transplant them inside Naruto! since he was willing to help sasuke complete his EMS, i’m sure he has other stuff in mind. after all, he IS seeking “completion”.

    madara’s plan is proving to be even more detailed and well thought out than i thought it was. he’d even go as far as influencing some kids from the shadows to form an organization and later on using that organization to his benefits. i’m not sure if what he said about the plan during the kage meeting was true, and i ‘m sure there are essential parts about it still in the dark, no one knowing what it is but him.

  46. I made a post this morning, but apparently it was taken off or just didn’t go through. Tobi’s posture looks very similar to Obito’s in this Kakashi Gaiden frame, and if you look at the eye area and the hair, the similarity is clear.



  47. For those of you who say it makes no sense for Obito to be Tobi, I say this:

    Kakashi Gaiden did introduce background for Kakashi and Minato, but it also seeded the controversy over Tobi. I find that to be too important. Kishimoto could have told that story later on, as a part of the manga as a flashback, BUT instead he decided to introduce it in the beginning. I believe this is because Kakashi Gaiden is what shapes part 2, or at least it helped shape the events made clear to us in part 2, such as the night of Naruto’s birth.

    I’m not saying that Obito is doing this all on his own, or even that it is his soul that is controlling what is left of his body, but I find it hard to believe that it is anything but Obito’s face under that mask.

  48. could it be that madara’s “throw away” right arm symbolize the arm that was trapped under the boulder when he was obito, that arm and leg would be useless. and he would need zetsu to remake the limbs or possibly the whole body. maybe kishimoto-san is trying to tell us something by everytime tobi gets into a serious fight pssst, there goes that arm, and then after the fight he has a new one, that zetsu gave him.

  49. For the Shisui theory. It’s dead. They found his body when Itachi killed him. No way Madara would have his body.

    For the Obito theory. Obito’s body would have decayed since it would have been dead for 17 years or so.

    For the Kakashi theory of having Tobi having his right eye. Not likely. Just because Tobi’s power is the opposite of Kakashi’s doesn’t mean there’s a link. We haven’t seen a Uchiha yin-yang power like that.

  50. @kigami, whoa and so says the law of u…lol, man u taking this shit too serious, i am not gonna rule out any possibility in this manga/anime, take danzo with an arm full of sharingans, thats not even possible, but it is in this anime. so before u go on ur “I am right, what i say is the law of this manga” trip, remember this, narutoverse is fiction, and doesn’t and can’t exist in the real world.so anything is possible. no to debunk u.
    1. shisui theroy isn’t dead if he were out of the pic, then why even mention his eye and abilities yrs apart in the manga. that body they found could have been made by zetsu, ever think of that, i mean the guy can make perfect clones.
    2.yeah obito’s body would have decayed, if he was dead, duh. i mean the so called madara is probably like oro. and has to change bodies with an uchiha, zetsu seeing the battle could have swished in and took it before death and saved it somehow. that explains my “throw away arm’ theory. dude think. madara’s mystery has something to so with obito+kakashi+shisui.
    3. im not even gonna comment on ur comments anymore because u come off to me as closed minded, and u talk as if we have to listen to u because for some reason u think ur word is law…lol
    yeah right. unless u are secretly kishimoto then, ……i don’t even want to say anything.

  51. I have a feeling guys we won’t be seeing Tobi’s face yet if he really is Madara..I think Kishimoto will have to unmask Kakashi first.,.funny, I don’t seem to care what’s under Kakashi’s mask but I’m dying to see Tobi’s.,.anyways, go Konan!!!

  52. I meant to say madara looks nagato not look madara in the eye it was 2am over hear so I was beat.

  53. Madara’s full face won’t be shown until he has his manical moment like sasuke had when they did almost a full page shot of his evil expression with his MS showing. Madara’s will be when his Moon’s Eye plan comes to fruition and he will dramatically rip off the mask and cloak and give out this evil laugh with lighting bolts shooting down in the background. Remember I called this scene first, thank you, lol.

  54. I’m sorry not Madara but…..

    Madara/Obito/Sasuke/Orochimaru/Naruto/Itachi/Sakura/Might Guy/Akuma/Goku/Shredder


  55. Great chapter. Loved how we final got a female that can take care of herself. You go Girl.

    I wanna let you guys know of this theory I have. May seem far fetched but just listen. I do think the EMS does give the person immortality but in a different way. I think two thing happened during and after the fight with the 1st Hokage. Madara used his left eye to use Izanagi but because his body was badly damaged in his fight he had to do something or his powers would fade and he would actually die. So he found out what can be called the true meaning of Immortality in EMS. Like many items and body parts in other manga/anime, movies and tv show. He can transfer is conciseness into his EMS and pass it into another body. Think about it. Now he looks young, close to Obito and Shisui, when he talked to Sasuke after Itachi’s death he removed part of his mask to revealed a older face that looks like Danzo’s (I said that in my comment in Naruto Chapter 509 is Here!) And it would expalin why he needs the Zetsu looking thing to fix that damned right arm of his. So I am not saying I believe my theory but think. What if he can take bodies of other Uchihas dead or alive (or any body as a matter of fact), transfer his remaining powers into the body via the Eye and use the body for himself. We are so drawn on is it him or is it not him when it can be but only the body not the person or the mind of the person but of Madara’s. The only thing as we all have asked is if it is Madara why is he Sharingan normal looking and not EMS or at less MS? Well my last thing is maybe he can turn on and off the EMS, It was said and correct me if I am wrong That the EMS stops the MS user from going blind and grants his dojutsu enormous new powers. I believe it was never said he could not turn it on and off. He could be hiding it for other reason or he can’t use it because the body he has can’t take the strain of the EMS being acvtivated.

  56. When Tobi is telling the story of Madara, we clearly see that there is no sharingan in Madara’s eyes while he argues about the peace with the Senju. The Eternal part in EMS means the person will never go blind again for using MS powers.

  57. @ryu1978, dude i am with u on that one, but don’t let kisu or kigami see this because they will go bat shit over the obito or shisui idea which i think is correct, if u read my post i was saying something along those lines.but u hit the nail for me, and now that i think about it he did look older when he was speaking to sasuke than he does now. that explains my ” throw away arm” theory. and come to find out they did not say that the eyes of EMS could not be turned on and off. SEE thats what i mean those little bit of details are what kishimoto can play around with. and i their were some kind of poll i would definitely pick ur theory or mine. thank u so much for ur comment now i know that i am not the only one that isn’t closed minded. thank u again, but beware u are gonna get spammed by kisu or kigami because they think their words are law. thanks again.

  58. Madara’s shock at being the darkness was priceless. I think he really thinks he’s acting in everyone’s best interests.

  59. @ just passing

    Kisu and kigami may be the “other guys” to most folk but I like the guys because even though they give you the other stuff most people do not wanna hear or ideas they don’t like I respect their comments because they DO make a lot of sense even if it sometimes comes from far left field. The only time I think I never like any of their comments was the “kill Naruto save the Kyubi” Thing back in CH 501 and 502 but that is in the past.

    You welcome on the comment. Like I said it may seem far fetched but when you think about it it does (at less to myself and you for now) make some sense.

  60. just passing just to tell you Madara lost his left arm too in the fight with the 4th so your arm and leg theory is usless

    when Madara attacked the leaf village shisui was like 7 or 8 years old and obito was 15 Madara was fully grown

    how the hell would they go back in time and give Nagato the rinnegan

  61. @siskin

    um i don’t think is shock was related to being called darkness i think it was to falling into a paper ocean that would cut him up seal him or just let him fall to his death

    Madara can’t fly after all

  62. @envy listen dude, this is the last time that i am going to address u also. shisui WASN’T THE SAME AGE AS ITACHI don’t u think i thought of that as well. and the same for obito’s body
    1. shisui was like an older brother to itachi, the uchihas that came to ask itachi questions stated that itachi looked up to him as an older brother figure. so damn ur 4th theory, that place the age just right, tobi did seem more youthful
    2. yeah he might have lost the left arm so what if ZETSU CAN PUT HIM BACK TOGETHER. we seen something similar when one of the zombie brothers lost is head and it was put back on. but i think that zetsu’s technique would be more refined.
    look the only cat that i will be bouncing ideas about the manga will be ryu1978 he seems to have an open mind.
    im stand firm by my tobi+shisui+kakashi theory until i am proven wrong. and if i am proven right u, kisu, kigami, and prodigy will never live it down. and if i am wrong i will never live it down as well. so later playa.

  63. by obito+shisui+kakashi theory, i am not stating that all are one in the same. i am saying that the mystery behind tobi/madara has something to do with those 3. kakashi and his eye being the key. until then imma wait.

  64. isn’t it possible that because zetsu can replicate peoples chakra and their abilities and create their clones that means that zetsu could also clone them to whatever age level he wants. madara wanted sasuke to believe he was madara, who in sasukes eyes would be extremely old, therefore, clone is an older verison of whoever he is. whether it be madara, obitio, shisui etc. all zetsu requires is their chakra, which maybe he can get from eating their bodies??? all these clone bodies with special chakra that madara/whoever he is can use at his disposal…

  65. Honestly I hope its not the soul transferring idea cause frankly that seems like a cop out…. oro did that in a way and I found it fresh at the time but now I feel That its being overplayed. If it is the soul transfer than kishi is just being lazy.

  66. @token

    How is the soul transfer thing being overplayed? No one else in the manga has done it yet.

  67. Oro is essentially transferring his soul from body to body. I mean he goes from a woman to a younger mans body. That was how he survived for so long. Not to mention kabuto absorbed some of oro and now ur noticing more of oros characteristics showing that his “essence ” still lives on.

  68. For the life of me why do people think Madara/Tobi is Obito? He was a regular Uchiha who just awoken his sharingan before his death. He had no beef with Konoha what so ever. He was a young brass ninja and thats it…. Again nothing special about Obito. And even so how you Madara/Tobi even know where Obito body was? Obito is gone.
    IMHO these Obito theories is not only absurd but really getting out of hand…

  69. I don’t think people are saying this actually Obito, they may mean that someone is wearing his body just look at the picture above, he look a lot like and him and that arm that’s been blown away is the same arm that is always destroy but it always regenerates and it happenes to be the same side where the Rock crushed Obito’s body. We are not saying it’s him mind and body but maybe just someone manipulating him body.

    Look I may was one of the people just like you who hated this theory but just look at the picture you have to admit it does in fact looks like him but if it’s not then cool. Maybe it’s some long lost ninja.

  70. Honestly I think this is madara. And why so people keep saying madara held back against nagato? When did they even fight? I’m sorry I just may have missed it is all.

  71. If it is some random ninja, Kishimoto will have to introduce the backstory and that would feel cheap, I find that the person behind the mask is someone we already know, this way it feels more connected to the beginning of the series (or perhaps at least the beginning of part 2… which is why I personally feel Kishimoto put Kakashi Gaiden there).

  72. Madara cannot be Obito because he was adult with full capabilities of his shringan when he faced Minato. During this time, Obito would still be a teenager that had just gained a sharingan. Plus why would a teenager have infinite knowledge on how the Nine-tails was sealed in Kushin?

  73. @ BOB—-a.k.a. Bob impostor!

    There is one way, and only one way I could see that Tobi would be Obito and that’s the end of the story:


    In the lower right frame Obito says “I will see the future” which might just mean that his eye will continue to see even though Obito himself does not live on… OR it could mean he really would end up seeing the future. I don’t know how he would know that BUT if Obito were able to see the future, as he mentions, then he would know everything that happened after that.

    This means that it is likely that Naruto mirrors Watchmen, as many people have stated (though I myself have not read it nor seen the movie).

    I personally find it very poetic if Tobi is Obito, there is a personal connection involved that makes the villan nature of Tobi a little more complex.

    Of course, it could just be Obito’s body possessed with Madara and that’s how Tobi knows everything.

  74. just passing this is the first time ive talked to you

    and yes shisui was older Itachi was but Itachi was 5 at the time and I doubt that suisui Itachi’s best friend was way older then him

    Obito was 15 Kakashi was the same age and hardly changed at all when he was see Madara he is fully grown and is not a teenager

    Madara does not look young that pic is just odd and makes him look young don’t know why

    how would Madara if Madara was Obito or shisui how would he go back in time to give Nagato the rinngan
    they were not even born yet or were infeants

  75. @Envy

    If Tobi did cause Nagato to release his Rin’negan or if he actually gave Nagato the Rin’negan then you are right, Obito (and Shisui) would have been too young or perhaps not even born yet.

    However, if Tobi is not Madara, then he is lying, and so who is to say he isn’t lying about that either.

  76. “im stand firm by my tobi+shisui+kakashi theory until i am proven wrong. and if i am proven right u, kisu, kigami, and prodigy will never live it down.”

    Huh? How’d I get into this? I don’t care either way if he is Obito or not. In fact, that’d be kinda fun seeing Kakashi’s reaction

  77. well if madara is the sage of six paths, then he would have given everyone their special abilities especially nagato with the rinnegan. he just wants what he gave back. 🙂 sorry to whoever suggested madara = sosp first.

  78. damn just read the other fanfic and realised someone made a fanfic on the same thought. 😦 oh well….. great minds think alike….

    by: NF

    Naruto 510: An Unexpected Kinjutsu

    Madara falls down into Konan’s paper.
    He holds his mask and tries to use his space-time [ninjutsu], but the exploding fuda among Kona’s paper prevent Madara from doing so.

    Konan: “it seems the space-time ninjutsu was a failure. It seems you cannot [teleport] anything other than what is directly besides you.”
    (if you want to teleport yourself, you have to materialise. it also goes slower than when you teleport something other than yourself)
    Madara: “I have to stop teleporting. If i won’t be able to slip through the explosion, things will be dangerous indeed.”
    (There are exploding fuda all around me… I can’t carelessly teleport)
    Konan: (Madara can slip through materials for a time period of approximately five minutes.)

    The paper starts covering Madara
    Konan: “In order to kill you, I prepared six hundred billion exploding fuda… They will continue to explode for ten minutes.”
    Inside the explosion…..
    (Konan has a small flashback)
    Madara: “I was the one who induced Yahiko to start Akatsuki and I was also the one who gave Nagato the Rinnegan.”
    Yahiko and Nagato moved on their own! They weren’t just shōgi pieces! Even if they were like that, I will fight and die with this intention! That is why this will is tied together!! It will not be hindered!!
    When the explosion ends, Konan sits down. The paper decoration in her hair crumbles.
    Konan: (The Paper Person of God Technique is coming apart. I used more chakra then I expected up till now, but with this…)
    “Madara is certainly—”

    Madara from behind her: “—Dead?”

    In a special place, Yahiko and Nagato rest among paper flowers.
    The paper flowers decorating them crumble…

    Konan is breathing faintly: “Why? You should be dead. No matter how often I tried it out, if I proceeded like this, I should have brought you down”
    Madara: “Izanagi… The ability to change illusion into reality, in exchange for light. An Uchiha kinjutsu… The Uchiha and Senju… Only those who hold the power of both sides can use this dōjutsu!”
    Konan: “Both the Senju and Uchiha…? That is the Rikudō’s power. You have such power…”
    Madara: “you’re my former comrade. As a token of friendship, I’ll teach you a bit about my techniques and my body. Izanagi is essentially what you said. A technique applying all things created by the Rikudō Sennin. originally, the Rikudō Sennin, the founder of both the Uchiha and Senju and possessing the blood and powers of both, made all things. Using the power of Yin Release (Inton), originating from the spiritual energy governing imagination, he created form out of nothing. With the power of Yang Release (Yōton), originating from the physical energy governing life, he blew life into those forms. The Bijū are also one of those… He used Yin-Yang Release (Onmyōton) to create every Bijū from the Ten-Tails’ chakra. A technique that can embodies imagination and life. That is Izanagi.”(RS)
    Konan: “What kind of person are you?”

    Madara: “To the world, Uchiha Madara lost to Senju Hashirama… but what is the truth? The victor is the person looking forward… The true victory and defeat come after this… The battle back then was to gain that person’s power. I am Uchiha Madara who obtained Senju Hashirama’s power. The second person to become Rikudō, that is my sole existence now. There were a few others who displayed imperfect Izanagi because they couldn’t control Hashirama’s power, but…”

    Konan goes away from Madara

    Madara: “it looks like you’re quietly going to Nagato. If you go there, you’ll both regret it. That nonsense you got from Naruto isn’t true peace or something like that! there is no hope or anything! Nagato believed in Naruto, merely to comfort his miserable self, is all.”
    Konan (! Impossible, I…) The rain turns into drizzle
    Yahiko: Nagato is the man who will become the bridge to peace. My duty is to be the pillar that supports that bridge.
    Nagato: The bridge to peace is he.. It is his will itself. My duty only goes up till here… Naruto… If it’s you, really…

    Madara: The ceaseless Amegakure rain is… What is this?

    Konan stands up. “Yahiko! Nagato! Your will will not vanish! I too believe in Naruto! This time, he”
    (the sky clears up and the sun appears together with a rainbow)
    Konan: “He is the man who will become a bridge to peace!! And for that, I will become a pillar!!!”
    (Thank you Nagato… Even when you’re dead, you still give me hope!)
    I am a blossom that is fine with falling! Here, you will…

    Konan raises both her hands and her paper forms a circle.
    Madara grabs Konan’s neck. “you said I was darkness, right? In that case, i’ll make you wither. And I’ll make that rainbow bridge, sparkling in seven colours, disappear into darkness as well. The moment this genjutsu I cast ends, you will end as well. After you told me where the Rinnegan is, though…”

    Konan loses conciousness.
    Madara: “There…?’
    Yahiko’s and Nagato’s corpses are in a place resembling a temple?
    Madara sits next to Nagato. “You are the third Rikudō… [Holding] a power so strong, it was even able to turn your red hair, proof of your Uzumaki clan lineage, into white…
    You turned traitor and yet you still smile…?”

    Nagato smiles with the will for creating peace…

  80. OMG, it is Madara and Nagato was an Uzumaki!!!!! Madara didn’t die he just took in some of Hashirama’s power to combine with his uchiha power to become the Next Rikudo to access the ultimate power.

    I’m guessing Naruto will kill Sasuke to gain this power.

  81. Looks like my theory was wrong but it’s cool I like this way better. This is awesome! This explains why Nagato was strong enough to control the Rinnegan, because he was a Uzumaki, I wonder if there are anymore Uzumaki members and if Naruto will meet one.

  82. Yeah I think the best answer to tobi saying he gave the rinnengan to nagato is from causing all the events that led up to him gettin them I’m sorry there’s no way even if he is madara that he had his hands on the rinnengan an if he did would be further proof he isn’t madara

  83. Ahh shoot just read that spoiler haha sweet

  84. Ok if he’s madara why even wear a mask to hide his identity specially when he has already told everyone who he is an what about the coffin that kabuto brought up that freaked him out ahhhh its killing me not knowing forsure

  85. yellowflash2 get’s the spoilers quick, thanks! I knew the Uzumaki’s were better than the Senju’s, but I would have never imagined Nagato to be a Uzumaki. Tobi could possibly be telling the truth. My brain is puzzled after reading that yin & yang and izanagi theory Madara spoke of. I’m still kinda confuse, I thought the 1st Rikudo was the ancestor of the Uchiha & Senju, now Madara is saying he was the founder of the 2 clans??

  86. @ Don’tJudgeMe, The Rikudo sage was the founder of the ninja world but his sons were the founders of Senju & Uchiha. The senju clans power was yin release( Spiritual Inton) and the Uchihas is Yang release( Physical Yoton) The Rikudo Sage used both yin and yang release power and them both together equals Onmyoton. His son who founded Senju inherited the Rikudo sages Spiritual (Yin) power and his other son who founded Uchiha inherited Physical (Yang) power.

    The Rikudo sage, with both powers (Onmyoton) created Izanagi among lots of other techniques which can be used to its full strength. So Danzo only used half of it’s power because he only had the Uchiha Yang (Physical) Yoton Release. He also used Onmyoton to split the Juubi into nine tailed beast.

    I hope this helped because I kinda had to redo over this a couple times to make sure I worded it correctly.

    I also wonder if the Fourth and Fifth Mizukages were also descendants of the Uzumaki because their Kekkai Genkai is also called Yoton.

  87. @yellowflash, Wasn’t Danzo able to perform Izanagi because he had Hashrirama’s cells, and the Shraigan? Wouldn’t the 4th and 5th Mizukage be decendants of Uchiha’s since you say the Uchiha’s is Yang release ( Physical Yoton ). Thanks for clearing up what Madara had said

    I’m wondering if Madara actually beat Hashirama, If he already had EMS, what did he obtain for beating Hashirama? I can’t wait to see the flashback of that fight

  88. Oh yeah, I forgot about him having Hashirama’s cells, but maybe since he couldn’t control them he couldn’t use it to its full effect. On the other thing, the only reason I believed the Mizukages were decendants of Senju was because they didn’t have any Sharingan but you know what maybe I’m reading too much into this so just scratch that until we learn more.

    I’m guessing Madara may have just absorbed some of him like Sasuke absorbed some of Orochimaru to receive some of his abilities but who knows what the process is exactly like.

  89. Madara’s face is being show next chapter and its not Obito

  90. @envy

    What is your source?

    I saw a pic on mangahelpers, but it was a fake pic.

  91. @Ripcord

    I know i just learned my self i came over here to correct myself

    but the pic looks good at least but its fake

  92. I have a question, if Nagato is an Uzumaki, how did the the dojutsu transfer back over to the Uzuamaki/Senju side? Looks like it would have materialized in an Uchiha since they already have a dojutsu, and at the very least it should have appeared in a Hyuuga, since they allegedly, have the closest thing to a rinnegan.

  93. And also is this why the Izangai sword is held by Susuanoo and said to put the person struck by it in an eternal slumber, because it is a genjutsu? Boy things are really starting to come together. 🙂

  94. The sword held by Susanoo is the Sword of Totsuka, not the Sword of Izanagi.

    It is considered a sealing sword, not a genjutsu, although it probably works similar to that.

    About the doujutsu transfering back, what doujutsu do you refer to? If you refer to the Rin’negan, it seems Tobi claims to have implanted them or transfered the technique for it into Nagato. It seems only the Senju and decendants have the ability to withstand such a powerful doujutsu.

  95. Oh sorry ripcord, had the right idea but wrong sword, lol.

  96. That’s a good expalanation ripcord, and that would make what Madara said true, that he really did implant the rinnegan in Nagato, because he took it from whomever, and transferred it to a Senju descendant, because otherwise how would it have jumped from the lineage with the dojutsu powers AKA (Uchiha/Hyuuga) to the lineage of the ones with the SOSP spiritual powers.

  97. I think I am starting to get it, after reading the new chapter. Madara is trying to put together six paths and make one complete SOSP body. The first path is the Uchiha/Eyes, 2nd path is Senju/Body, 3rd/ Nagato/Rinnegan. So what are the 4th 5th and 6th, and actually aren’t there really 7 paths? I think Sasuke will be the 4th path and whatever new eye technique he has acquired. I think the 5th path is Naruto and his new SOSP body/his chakra chains/ tailed beast controlling ability, and the 6th path is recreating the juubi which he will have complete control over with all the dojutsu power and body power needed from the other paths. But what is the 7th path, could it be Izagnagi which will reblend all these reality based(i.e. physical bodies) and illusions/fantasy based creatures(I.e tailed beast AKA Juubi). Just a theory, oh, and I think i will repost this on BOB’s summary because I would like some input from this. 🙂

  98. hey naruto 510 is out!!! http://www.mangastream.com

  99. No no no Uchiha the Infamous

    I thought so too initially, but what Tobi is saying is the following:

    so far there have been three people to possess the Rin’negan, i.e. Nagato is the 3rd person to be the “Sage of the Six Paths.” Nagato is NOT the third path or anything like that.

    Now the question is: who was the second? Obviously the one called the “Sage of the Six Paths” was the first one. Perhaps Tobi/Madara tried it himself but failed? Or he tried it with someone else and they couldn’t handle the Rin’negan?

  100. No ripcord on this page: http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/81065970/13
    in the 3rd panel he clearly states: “I am Uchiha Madara the man who obtained Senju Hashirama’s powers. Two of the Six Paths are now one being.” This means that each one of them are part of the 6th paths. But now 2 of the six paths are in the same body.

  101. Okay……. so I totally posted my theory on how Nagato was part of the Uzumaki clan a few chapters ago. But I was made out to be an insane idiot. BAH!!!!

  102. Madara had to have given Nagato the rinnegan. What would be the point of lying to someone he was about to kill? Most plots have always been tell the truth of a plan or whatever before you kill the person.

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