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Naruto Chapter 507 – A Life of Lies

naruto-retro1Post Author: Bob

Hi Naruto fans and Shannarolites, could it be it’s time for another chapter of Naruto. It’s been a week coming, but I we’re finally seeing the last breathes of Kisame-san as his death is all but imminent. There might have been some doubts whether might pull another “you only killed my clone” type of death like he did to Killer Bee, but the flashback we saw this chapter is definitive proof shark dude is biting the bullet this time around. It’s sad to see Kisame go, I’m getting the feeling that he along with maybe Zetsu are the only two Akatsuki members who genuinely believed in Madara’s plan, all the others either joined Akatsuki to forward their own interests or were being deceived. Even if he’s a villain, he’s a villain who stuck to his ideals until the end, you have to respect that. And how can you not like a character that emulates the Kamehameha so well?

Still, I’m glad Kisame isn’t going out without fighting to the last breath. This might have been a short battle but we have to consider the amount of punishment Kisame took from Naruto’s attack and Gai’s beatings yet still manages to summon up the strength for one last push. We often attribute’s Kisame’s battle performance to his strength and immense chakra level, but I think we often overlook the guy’s sheer willpower and resolve. Kisame is a survivor and an idealist, and he won’t let himself die until his ideals are fulfilled. After seeing his flashback, I get the feeling that if Kisame was born into another environment and had more virtuous mentors, he could have easily become one of the strongest allies for the good side. Being raised in the Bloody Mist twisted Kisame’s view of the world from the beginning; the village was drowned in secrets and lies, and where lives were easily expandable to protect them. Kisame was often given the task of murdering his own teammates and superiors in order to protect the village’s secrets, but although he excelled at being their executioner, it left him with no one to trust and no sense of belonging. He trusted no one, and no one really trusted him, he may have worn the emblems of the Mist, but he owe loyalty to no one. Kisame himself states that his whole life was one giant lie, perhaps he was just looking for a simpler world to live in? Kisame’s dream of living in a world free of lies may be naïve, but it can be a noble goal if pursued in the right way; unfortunately, Kisame fell into the grasp of Madara’s twisted vision of the future much like Nagato did. The ironic thing is that living under Madara’s Moon’s Eye plan would be like living under a lie for the rest of your life. Kisame isn’t stupid so I’m sure he was aware of this, but perhaps he went along with it because with it because at least in that new world he can find a place where he can belong.

Some other interesting thoughts about Kisame come to mind after this informative flashback. One is that even after Madara told Kisame of his grand plan, he still kept him in the dark about some things. I say this because Kisame was never aware that Tobi was Madara until Madara took off his mask for him (this occurred many chapters ago). To me, this proves that Madara never saw Kisame as more than another tool despite the fact that Kisame loyalty has never come into question. Another thing I find interesting is how Kisame was able to pair up with Itachi so well when he had killed so many of his comrades prior to joining Akatsuki. It’s probable that Madara meant for Kisame to spy on Itachi, but there certainly was a feeling of respect, maybe even trust. Going on there. It could be that Itachi was the closest thing to a friend Kisame ever had.

Some other minor points of note:
– “those who open the Wonder Gate pour glowing sweat from every inch of their body.” (anyone remember those Gatorade ‘is it in you?’ commercials, that’s what that reminds of) If you think about it, that’s really gross, Gai’s saying his aura is really plumes of steaming sweat coming off his body — the smell must be quite something.
– the scene where Gai sucker punches Kisame for twitching a finger was pretty funny. Talk about no mercy, I think Gai could have an excellent career as part of the Konoha interrogation squad in the future.
– so the rumors about the Fourth Mizukage being controlled by Madara are true. So does that mean the beginning of the Bloody Mist era in the Hidden Mist village were attributed to Madara’s influence. If that’s true, then Madara had a hand in moulding Kisame into what he is today all along. His life was a giant lie indeed.
– Aoba has seen the true face of Madara!!! Spill the beans Aoba!!!


139 Responses

  1. Great post Bob, another thing that got me is if Madara was behind the dark era of the Boodymist could this be a teaser of what his world would be like if he ruled the Entire shinobi world, would it be this cruel?
    Also I agree with you about eerything Kisame was a great character.

  2. Guy also was kinda ruthless in this video, when he punched him for twitching his finger was hilarious. Guy just moved up a few points in my favorite character list!

  3. bob, isn’t the madara to blame for kisame’s life of lies? we knew madara (tobi) was the one in control of the mist, but we don’t know since WHEN… i think madara’s actions in that village could be one huge factor of why it turned out that way for kisame. if kisame isn’t stupid, i’m sure he’d want revenge on someone like that. unless he was totally deceived.

    nonetheless, i think it’s an ok chapter. good post.

  4. isn’t madara*** (without “the”), 😛

    typo typo typo…

  5. Aoba better be a good drawer <_<.
    (Hopefully he saw at least a glimpse of his face)

  6. I doubt Kishi would let Aoba reveal masked guys identity, Kishi is going to most likely reveal his identity to a more relevant character.

  7. *applauds Bob’s analysis of Kisame* Bravo Bob-sensei. In fact, I’ll give you the Zommari treatment. Hooray Bob-sensei! Hooray Bob-sensei! Hooray Bob-sensei!

    Anyhoo, Kisame snapped back into reality by biting his tongue to wake himself up, just before Aoba saw Madara’s face. Kisame is a badass taken to the extreme! Then he broke Yamato’s wood prison like it was glass, all while being a shell of his former self. I’m really hoping his tongue injury kills him next week after he gets the info to Madara, or he escapes, or he uses one final attack then die.

    With one flashback Kisame moves from a two-dimensional character to a more complex one. The page that really hit home though was when that girl tried to be friends with Kisame and he just shrugged her off. It shows how hardened the Shinobi world had made him, then he killed his master without a second thought. Yep, Kisame shined this chapter and as a Kisame fan, I couldn’t be more proud of Fishman 🙂

    As for his fight with Guy, I remember I said earlier that Kisame wasn’t at full strength, let me explain why.

    Kisame took a punch powerful enough to make him cough up blood:

    Kisame only managed to get 1 panel’s worth of chakra from Bee. The reason Bee keeled over is simple, he used up his chakra helping Naruto. Also, here it shows Samehada can only absorb Six Tails at a time:


    We also know Samehada cant deplete the Hachibi’s chakra that quickly because its just too much. Samehada only had one panel to absorb, but here http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-471/11/ it had 2 pages and some left over panels to absorb (or in battle terms, samehada had when Bee transformed, to Kisame gettin hit to Kisame being slammed into a tree), yet it left Bee with 6 Tails.

    Kisame has Biju level chakra naturally, so the fact that he probably barely got 6 tails means he wasn’t at full strength, case closed.

    But none of that matters, what matters is, Kisame knew he was weakened but still wanted to fight. Kisame really deserved to be the last Akatsuki. Why die with a whimper when you can die with a roar?

  8. Id agree although Aoba hasd as much accumulated screen time as Shino, Kishi wouldn’t let all mighty Madaras face revealed to…him and if he did, so what, he’ll either die by Kisames hands or never be able to describe his face so…WHO CARES LMAO

  9. @Bob, I think kisame trusted Itachi so much because they had such a similar history. They both have mercenary tendencies…Itachi killed the majority of his clan and kisame killed his comrades and superior. Who would trust any of them?

  10. @ Kisu, if Kisame dies from biting his tongue, he more of a whimp anyway. All the greats die from horrible injuries and I myself think if he’s going to die he should go out like a great because that exactly what he is.

    Also he was at full strength, when he absorbed KB’s chakra he also healed himself since his wound was gone when he was under water grabbing Samehada ( Just check chapter 506). Also, we don’t know, how long he was holding Samehada and how fast he can absorb the chakra, I mean it is a manga, you don’t have to overuse you analytical skills because sometimes things are just simple,LOL.

    On top of all that it’s true he has a lot of chakra but it doesn’t reach Bijuu level until he fuses with Samehada according to Chojiro during the Kage summit and since he doesn’t have Samehada, I guess you can say he’s not at full power but since Samehada doesn’t belong to anyone seeing that everyone seems to steal him from others then this is the real Kisame. Samehada is up for grabs, anyone can get him, by the way where the hell does he come from?

    But he does deserves props for fighting and almost getting away while up against Naruto, KB and Guy and Aoba. I really am going to miss him.

  11. great post bob as always.

    yea Kisame might die here (that sucks), but Aoba is dead sure. there is no way Kisame is goin to let him say anything.

  12. Guy is a BEAST!! Kisame was at full strength!! It was stated that he steals his opponent’s chakras and converts them to his own stamina! see: http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-471/15/

  13. “Also he was at full strength, when he absorbed KB’s chakra he also healed himself ”

    so what if he was healed? He clearly didn’t have his normal Biju level chakra. If he did he could probably make six of those gigantic shark missiles

    “Guy is a BEAST!! Kisame was at full strength!! It was stated that he steals his opponent’s chakras and converts them to his own stamina! see: http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-471/15/

    But his own stamina is that of a Biju, and I clearly showed that at most he only got six chakra cloak tails worth of chakra.

    Chojuro said he’s as strong as a Jinchuriki, and Jinchuriki are stronger than Bijus. A Jinchuriki can control a Bijus power much better than a Biju can do in the wild, plus they have their own power.


  14. “if Kisame dies from biting his tongue, he more of a whimp anyway.”

    I disagree. If he dies like that, he’ll be dying on his own terms. He’d be dying for what he believed him and not because someone killed him, just like Nagato and Itachi.

  15. “so what if he was healed? He clearly didn’t have his normal Biju level chakra. If he did he could probably make six of those gigantic shark missiles”

    Kisame’s normal chakra isn’t on bijuu level, he has as much chakra as Naruto’s normal chakra which Neji stated at the beginning of Shippuden (not including the Kyuubi) which is still a huge amount and when he FUSES WITH SAMEHADA he gains bijuu level chakra. So stop saying he wasn’t at full strength, without Samehada Kisame is just a ordinary shinobi just face it.

    “But his own stamina is that of a Biju, and I clearly showed that at most he only got six chakra cloak tails worth of chakra.”
    First you didn’t clearly show that because it’s pure specualation and KB didn’t have his chakra cloak on to see how many tails he absorbs. His own stamina is normal and he wouldn’t have to absorb chakra if he already has bijuu level abilities. Kisame stated himself that no one can beat him because he absorbs chakra and converts it to his own stamina which means he can win without Samehada because it’s Samehada who gives him these abilities.

    “Chojuro said he’s as strong as a Jinchuriki, and Jinchuriki are stronger than Bijus. A Jinchuriki can control a Bijus power much better than a Biju can do in the wild, plus they have their own power.”

    Chojuro said he is as strong as a Jinchuuriki and once he fuses with Samehada he could be as strong as a bijuu so clearly he’s saying a Bijuu is stronger than a Jinchuuriki, thats why KB didn’t want to let the Hachibi take over his fight with Kisame after the summit because he didn’t want someone to find him because the Hachibi’s power is too obvious.

    How did you clearly show that he got about six tails worth of chakra? which is still a lot, you are still over analyzing things, admit it this is speculation not facts.

  16. I disagree. If he dies like that, he’ll be dying on his own terms. He’d be dying for what he believed him and not because someone killed him, just like Nagato and Itachi.

    i mean if he dies by a injury like that, he’s a whimp. He goes down in history dying by biting his tongue out and choking on his own blood.

    Minato died by getting stabbed through the chest by the Kyuubis nail and the Dead Demon Seal.

    Jiraiya died by getting stabbed with all those chakra recievers and getting his arm cut off.

    Hiruzen died by DDS

    Pein died by his Gedo Rinne technique, I’m just saying that they all went out in epic proportion and Kisame went out by biting his tongue out, I just think he deserves more, don’t you? I think if he is going to do it himself, blow your self up like Deidara or some other way than just biting his tongue out. I blame Kishi,LOL!

  17. @yellowflash, could SOPM Naruto beat the half-powered Kyubi Minato fought at the end? A Jinchuriki who’s in full control of a Biju’s power, is more powerful than a wild Biju.

    “First you didn’t clearly show that because it’s pure specualation and KB didn’t have his chakra cloak on to see how many tails he absorbs.”

    Actually, I did show it. Kisame had less time to absorb Bee’s chakra than when they fought back in the forest.

    “Kisame’s normal chakra isn’t on bijuu level, he has as much chakra as Naruto’s normal chakra which Neji stated at the beginning of Shippuden”

    No, he said Kisame’s chakra is comparable to Naruto at the Chunin Exams, which could mean Naruto before using the Kyubi chakra, or Naruto after using it, but because he made no such preciseness with his statement, we have to assume he meant the amount Naruto used at the end which was unlike anything he had seen prior. Need I remind you that was a Kisame clone with only 30% as the original. So that means Kisame can become over 3.3x more powerful.

    “How did you clearly show that he got about six tails worth of chakra? which is still a lot, you are still over analyzing things, admit it this is speculation not facts.”

    We know for a fact Samehada can only absorb six tails at a time, so this is not speculation.

    Anyway, I’m really not up for debating this. I provided manga evidence, and unless someone can get evidence which proves my points wrong, then I’m done.

  18. @Kisu

    I will only say that the six tails thing is speculation. Yes he did absorb six in Chapter 470 and 471. But that dose not mean he absorb that much chakra this time. If by what you seem to be trying to say, Bee would only be able to use two tails worth after real six tails worth of chakra was taken. You make it seem like because the sword can eat 6 tails at a time it took more than 3/4 of all the 8 tails chakra. That is why I say speculation with YF2 but other than that I am incline to agree with you on the other things. even the biting of the tongue death thing. Not every bad ass will get a death worth every time. That is my two cents. Later

  19. poor kisame

  20. I’m going to go way out on the limb here and say their is a 50% chance that Tobi’s moon eye plan is BS. If Kisame dies next chapter as expected the Akatsuki is done. Lets just say Tobi is Madara and he has EMS, Sasuke has EMS, then their is Zetsu and the 2 remaining members of Hawk if they are still around. That’s 5 guys to take on the 5 great nations and what other small/minor nations or villages from the anime fillers that might join in.

    Do any of you guys really think these guys are going to go up against the 5 kages, godzen Naruto, hundreds of jounin, chunin, genin and samurai. This war is going to be over before it starts.

    So either Tobi is going to go on a mass recruiting spree or Kabuto has some mad resurrection skills.

    Theirs going to be more to this war then we have seen. My prediction is their are going to be traitors.

  21. @Lord Hyuga, sure they can 🙂

    Jugo can take out Suna
    Suigetsu can take out Kiri
    Zetsu beats Iwa
    Madara kills Konoha
    and Sasugay beats out Kumo

    ….LMFAO!!!!! Yeah right! Plus they don’t even have Jugo and Suigetsu anymore. They’re still prisoners in the Land of Iron being interrogated by those wacky samurai. I doubt Kabuto can revive enough zombies to make an army. And if he cant, I seriously doubt just those Akatsuki members can take out an entire army, well apart from Pain since he actually did in fact take out Konoha’s army (but this army is at least 6 times bigger), but this is too much, even for Pain.

    Perhaps he’ll use Akatsuki’s subordinates. Remember Tobi was just an Akatsuki subordinate before actually joining (kayfabe-wise anyway…lol wrestling terms)

    @Ryu, exactly. Death is sometimes quick and not everyone gets to go out with a bang. But the fact that Kisame chose his death, but is still fighting on regardless really shows his greatness. If I bit my tongue off (which someone like me would never do no matter what) I’d just wait until I die. But Kisame’s still fighting.

    On the whole chakra thing, that was just my observation that stemmed solely from the small amount of time Samehada had to absorb chakra and the chakra Bee used up helping Naruto. I really don’t care to defend anything about his chakra levels. But I’m sticking to my assertions.

  22. @madara uchiha “poor kisame”

    no, more like “good job Kisame”. He didn’t disappoint as a character or as an atagonist, unlike a lot of villains these days

  23. Great post Bob, but it was 1 thing I didn’t get in this chapter, when the leaf ninja arrive and Kisame kills his comrads, why doesn’t it show the leaf ninja leaving? It just went straight into the scene where he talks to the 4th Mizukage, but other than that this chapter was great. I wonder why Madara didn’t just save Kisame like he saved Sasuke, I guess Kabuto can bring him back via Edo Tensei.

    It seems like Bee will have Samehada. Damn does Madara care about any of comrads besides Sasuke, I don’t know about anyone else but I’m ready to see Edo Tensei. Deidara + Kakuzu can take out Kumo by themselves. I would love to see Kabuto use Itachi and Pein at the same time on any village, unleash the 1 tailed beast and Sasori on Suna

    This may or may not happen, but I wish it will

  24. @lilmoe, it’s hard to imagine why kisame would choose to follow Madara when he knows Madara is one of those responsible for his ‘life of lies.’ But he might have also realized that he has really no where else to belong to, at least in Akatsuki he has a purpose and a set goal.

    @rsvp4GOD, I think that;s exactly why he and Itachi got along so well, thanks for pointing that out. Both were used like tools to do the dirty work for their villages and then cast out like trash. Kisame probably saw a kindred spirit in Itachi, or maybe just a beer buddy.

    @Rinnegan invasion, they probably thought Kisame was a crazy crackhead and left because they figured he’d kill more kirigakure ninja if they let him live. Or Kisame just made a daring escape by running away like a fool.

  25. @ Kisu, I’m not going to address the bijuus power vs. a jinchuuriki’s because I think I’ve made my point that it’s speculation. Also I won’t address what you said about Kisam absorbing six tails from KB because you don’t have anything to back that up also.

    “We know for a fact Samehada can only absorb six tails at a time, so this is not speculation.”

    You are right he can absorb six tails at a time but he wasn’t even using the Hachibi’s chakra or the cloak. You don’t know how much chakra he absorbed, and even when he absorbed the six tails before, KB didn’t get that exhausted, he just made more tails. And don’t say he was exhausted from the fight with the Kyuubi because KB said he couldn’t use his full power inside Naruto which means he still had a lot of chakra he didn’t use.

    You can’t debate it because everything you are saying you are making up out of the top of you head to make yourself look well informed but you are not, sorry. Also nothing you said was verified in the manga, you are reading in between the lines over analyzing everything.

    This is my last comment about this, I’ve made my point.

  26. @ Lord Hokage, you are forgetting that Kabuto is around with controll over all the dead Akatsuki’s who can’t be killed because they are immortal and madara has seven of the nine bijuu along with Edo tensei and who knows what God like abilities Sasuke is going to have. Also Madara could have some of the minor villages behind him and still have sway over Kirigakure. I don’t think Madara has been alive this long planning this without a few aces in the hole.

  27. What if kabuto is bluffing tho those were just bodies in coffins an madara is foolin everyone I think the only truth came from him when he talked about getting the perfect body he needs sasukes eyes an narutos body an I think his plan all along was to get just that

  28. @kisu, i find it hilarious that you say it isn’t fair that Kisame met up against guy, this is fucking war. Its live or die, you can’t fucking pick and choose your opponents you moron. if you believe you are stronger than you beat your opponent.

    The simple fact is, Might Guy is stronger stronger than Kisame. It does not matter if Kisame was at full strength and had Samaheda, the reason he is so formitable is not his extraodinary huge chakra reserve, its his ability to hinder his oponents by stealing their chakra. Since chakra stealing does not work against Guy, Kisame cannot stop his attacks.

    Guy is not as dumb as he looks, he knew the opponent he was up against and thus used the necessary technique to defeat him.


    Shisui for Madara!!!!!

  29. Thanks everyone I missed the part when Suigetsu and Juugo were captured. So I guess it all comes down to Kabuto’s ressurection abilities. That EMS better give him & Sasuke some godzen like abilities, because he’s putting a lot of faith in Kabuto which is a huge mistake.

    @just passing, I agree with you about the Cloud turning on the alliance. I can’t back this up but I think their might be some sort of connection or
    secret alliance with all these water based villages (Mist, Cloud, Rain, Waterfall, & Eddy).

    I don’t think it is a coincidence thier are all these water villages. I might be pulling too much from the Last Airbender, but could thier have been some sort of water master rival of the sage of 6 paths?

  30. I hope Madara shows up to save kisame… I’m not liking the idea of a zombie army for the bad guys.
    I must say this was an interesting chapter. I think Kisame’s respect for Itachi came as a result of his respect for Madara (i.e. the power of the sharingan). I mean he probably saw that even if Itachi was a fraction as strong as Madara, he would be stronger than him and he respected that. ITACHI FTW!
    I am interested in seeing what direction the manga will take now i.e Sasuke focus, Konoha focus, Naruto focus, alliance focus? Can’t wait for next week!

  31. I’m actually pretty pissed off! I mean Kishimoto has been teasing Tobi’s face for quite some time now, and this had really better be the last time! I mean, I have no retribution, but no one likes a tease. I hope this is the set-up for Tobi’s face reveal sometime soon. I don’t think Aoba actually got to see Tobi’s face, and of course if he saw it, I wonder if he’d recognize it, since Aoba is so young. Then again, I guess Inoichi could mind read Aoba…

  32. One other thing:

    KB is right nearby with Samehada. I know I’m holding out for a lot here, but Kisame could still stage some sort of an escape… Guy probably can’t use the gates anytime soon… ah well, I know it’s a far fetched idea, but Kisame isn’t quite dead yet.

    Though if you take Bob’s point that Kisame was just another tool, then there is no way he’s getting saved here.

  33. great post, so i will not say much but do to the current flash back i believe madara is shisui uchiha due to the fact that uchihas eye powers are different and he is the only one known to control people

  34. It was interesting that the Three-Tailed host was in this episode.
    I never knew that he was being manipulated by Madara.
    In fact, it doesn’t even make sense to me.
    Anyone care to help out?

  35. That is, I never knew the Mizukage was the host. Even though he was being manipulated.
    But then, how did the beast end up roaming wild?
    Did it somehow take over the body of the mizukage?

  36. @King Eric

    How is that possible?

    Danzo took one of Shisui’s eyes, what in the world would allow Shisui to have one of his eyes taken and not the other one?!?! It makes no sense to me.

  37. @kisuzachi, on August 26, 2010 at 8:59 pm
    I argee with you on that…. but still? biting his tounge and die?? couldnt he brakes his own neck or something, beacuse tounge is a bitt whimpy.

  38. @ P, exactly was I said, biting you tongue and dying? Yeah thats the worst way to go.LOL

    @ Madzikage, Actually the Zombie thing kinda works in Madaras favor, he can use them and their abilities and doesn’t have to worry about them dying because they can regenerate from any attack.

    Also, I wish everyone stop saying this is Shisui because it’s not, there are alot of different ways an Uchiha can control someone, look at Sasuke he controlled Manda with his normal Sharingan and the Masked guy controlled the Kyuubi and if he really is Madara he can control any bijuu. Shisui is dead and Danzo has his eyes. Face it Shisui is dead!!!

  39. “i find it hilarious that you say it isn’t fair that Kisame met up against guy, this is fucking war. Its live or die, you can’t fucking pick and choose your opponents you moron.”

    I never said it wasn’t fair that he fought Guy. It just turned out to be one of those cases where you meet someone that’s suited to fight you. But what I take offense with in your comment is the part where you said Guy is stronger than Kisame. That is purely false. But then I suppose Shikamaru was stronger than Tayuya and Hidan, well at least by your logic anyway.

    This reminds me of Enel. He was a villain in One Piece and his power was lightning. He was worshiped as a god for his powers and destroyed everyone that challenged him in an instant. But then he fought Luffy, the story’s protagonist and he lost. Why? Because his powers had no effect on Luffy because he was made of rubber. At the time Luffy wasn’t even close to him power-wise. So simply beating an opponent does not make you stronger than that opponent.

    @yellowflash, I already said I’m not up for a debate about this. I found manga evidence saying Samehada can only absorb 6 tails at a time, and even if we didnt see the chakra, it means 6 tails were absorbed.

    @ripcord, are you suggesting that Kisame could grab Samehada and restore his chakra?

  40. @p, matter of opinion I suppose 🙂

  41. @kisu

    Yes, that is what I”m implying. I know it is far fetched (and why in the world would Kisame put himself in this position???) but if Kisame could restore even a bit of chakra, the only one who could potentially go after Kisame in the water would be Naruto. Of course, we have seen that Naruto doesn’t have good control over his bijuu chakra yet, and it would take him too long to go into Sage Mode.

    So I would argue that IF and it’s a big IF Kisame can get close to KB, he could suck KB dry and off he goes. I am sure Kisame took all of them by surprise by breaking out of the stocks and I don’t think any other safeguards were put in place.

    My reasoning for this is just because Kishimoto didn’t kill off Kisame in this chapter, he left it ambiguous. I would find it weird that Kisame just ends up dying in the next chapter, unless Kisame waking up was only to prevent us from seeing Tobi’s face, and possibly to show us how commmited he is.

  42. fooling KB once is possible, but twice in this condition no way

  43. Well, I think that Kisame has the element of surprise here, so he has a very very very very small chance of success. I admit it seems very unlikely considering Samehada has bonded so strongly to KB, but I’m just giving all those Kisame loving people out there some hope. I thought Kisame would have survived Afternoon Tiger and Guy would have had to use all 8 gates and end it with Evening Dragon, but not yet it seems.

    One thing I am curious about, we have never seen the side-effects in Guy from the 8-gates, I just wonder if he is better able to bear the pain or if he feels less, after 7 gates, I would expect Guy to be like Kakashi after using kamui.

  44. kisame to me is one of the strongest akutski has to offer. a shame kisame will probely die :`(

  45. @ anyone who can clearly answer the question for me.

    How is Madara able to control a Jinchuriki with his Sharigan?

    From the Sasuke and KB fight. Genjustu doesn’t work on them for the fact that they have a tailed beast inside them. Yagura was one of the 5 I think or 6 people that can fully control a tailed beast. So how come Madara was able to control Yagura?

    That bothers me. I can see how maybe if he had Shisui’s right-eye, but then the question to that would be “Is shisui’s mind control greater then a MS Genjustu? I’m stuck here.

    Anyone? Any theories?

  46. @Larry

    He does it with genjutsu. As to the Sasuke/KB fight, Sasuke probably didn’t know the appropriate genjutsu, or he is unable to cast the genjutsu on the host AND the bijuu at the same time (which might be the necessary condition to control a host). Saskue, as we have seen, isn’t as good at genjutsu as Itachi was.

    Itachi never needed Shisui’s eye to perform awesome genjutsu (even with just a finger), so I would say this ability varies from Uchiha to Uchiha.

    One other possiblity is that it requires a synergy with the bijuu, not just control, to be genjutsu proof. Right now, Naruto might have control over the kyuubi chakra, but the kyuubi certainly isn’t cooperating with Naruto like KB and the 8-tails.

    I find it interesting though that during the fight with Kisame, KillerBee ASKED the Haichibi for some of its chakra, implying that the Hachibi still retained its power or at least some of it. Could this be the power the kyuubi still has? It seems odd to me though.

  47. Its true that Genjutsu doesnt work on Jinchuriki who can control their bijuu but madara was able to control the nine tailed maybe that has something to do with that.

  48. I also think that if Guy have used his 8th gate he would die….that some of the final jutsus you use if you dont see a chance to win like Deideira, Minato, Nagato or others did so I think if we would ever see the 8th gate from guy or lee they will die.

  49. @ Kisu, I am done talking about this, if you want to stay ignorant and keep on bringing this up then address someone else about this because I’ve already stated the facts.

    “So simply beating an opponent does not make you stronger than that opponent.”

    I disagree with this because I believe if you are truly stronger than someone than you should be stronger in body and in mind. The thing is these people you named were probably stronger in chakra but Shikamaru outclass them in using his mind. That’s why he was chosen to be a chunin before anyone else in his class, before Sasuke, Naruto, Neji, because he was the strongest in the eyes of the Hokage and Jonin and Feudal Lords.

    Just look at it this way, ninja are born with special Kekkai Genkai like the Rinnegan or Sharingan and Byakugan which makes gives them an advantage than the average ninja, Shikamaru was born with high intelligence, which seems to be a trait in his clan so he was born with a different kind of advantage and I don’t think it shouldn’t hinder him from being pronounced stronger than Hidan and Tayuya because if he didn’t have that intelligence he wouldn’t have won. This also is the same for Sasuke Neji and Nagato, they would be half the threat they are now if they didn’t have those doujutsu.
    This is basic Kisu, I’m surprised you didn’t know.

  50. So…Kisame’s dead? What point in the chapter did he die in? I couldn’t follow it.

  51. LOL @ the evening tiger. That was a good one. I guess we will have to find out next week right? NO need for ad hominems. After Kisame supposedly dies, what do you guys and/or gals think is going to happen next?

  52. @yellowflash, all I can say is lol. As far as I see it, power determines who’s stronger, not intelligence. Besides, Hidan already proved he was stronger because he would have killed Shikamaru and company if Pain had not called him back. Tayuya would have killed Shika is Temari hadn’t intervened. So while intelligence is good and is an admirable trait, in this manga power trumps everything else. Look at Tsunade and Raikage, their hotheads and yet they lead Villages, one even leading the Alliance. So based on all that’s happened thus far, Kishi seems to not agree with what you describe as strength.

    Now contrary to popular belief, Jinchuriki aren’t immune to genjutsu. A Jinchuriki who has a relationship with his Biju (like Killerbee) does though.

  53. @ Kisu, Forget it then, I see you won’t even consider the possibility that you are wrong so forget it.

    Also just to correct you KB said in his fight with Sasuke that Jinchuuriki who control their beast are immune to genjutsu because the beast will release the illusion. This is what he said, you are just speculating. We’ve only seen this once, and it’s with Sasuke and KB and for now until Kishi shows us otherwise, Jinchuuriki who control their beast are immune to genjutsu.
    He didn’t say Jinchuuriki who has a close bond and are all lovey dovey are immune to genjutsu.

    Since the Jinchuuriki have full control over the beast, whether it wants to or not he can force it to break the Genjutsu.

  54. @kisuzachi

    Actually Naruto’s ability to think on his feet enabled him to beat Gaara, it wasn’t his pure power. Same with his fight vs. Kiba and his fight vs Neji.

    Granted, during the Neji fight he had the 9-tails chakra, but with that alone he wouldn’t have won.

  55. @yellowflash, “Now contrary to popular belief, Jinchuriki aren’t immune to genjutsu. A Jinchuriki who has a relationship with his Biju (like Killerbee) does though.”

    Wow. Isn’t that pretty clear? How many Jinchuriki have control of their Biju? Only 3. So I’m perfectly correct when I say a regular Jinchuriki isnt immune to genjutsu. And also, if Naruto has locked away the Kyubi, how will it break him out of Genjutsu? Last I checked its the Biju using its chakra to break the genjutsu, but a Biju that can’t use its own chakra is useless for that purpose. So yes, a Jinchuriki has to have a relationship with their Biju, after they fight them of course.

  56. “after they FIGHT them of course.”

    No, a better word is subdue.

  57. I believe that madara is still controlling the third mizukage since the only reason kisame knew it was madara was when tobi took off his mask and even when he did that he said its you the mizukage

  58. @Kisu
    Well, if your attacks have no effect on your opponent while their’s can kill you, then who of the two is stronger?? What I am saying is that Guy is stronger than Kisame because he can beat him anytime they meet up. it was not just a fluke victory.
    Itachi warned Kisame of Guy because he knew what would happen if the went all out. Guy wins everytime.

    Even though Yaguro could fully control his tailed beast, i dont think he had the sort of control KB has over his. I think he could get the beast to give him chakra and tranform into its form without being taken over by the beast, but i dont think he could communicate with the beast and if it cared for him as much as KB’s beast does, thus when he was under a genjustsu, the beast won’t bother to help him. maybe he had forced control over the beast.

    either that, or madara is on a whole other level than tsukuyomi.

  59. Has anyone ever thought that since Madara was supposedly controlling the 4th Mizukage that he had complete control over the 3 Tailed Beast. That is why everyone thought the 4th Mizukage had control over the 3 Tails is because Madara was controlling them both mean the 4th Mizukage never had control of his Tailed Beast. That would explain the agruement going on about a Jinchuuriki being controled by a Sharingan user. Plus we only know of Madara’s S/T Jutsu we don’t really know much about his other Sharingan power just yet if he has any.

  60. @ryu – you make a good point there ryu.

    but I don’t think madara had continuos controll over the 4th mizukage. He might have had an influence in yagura’s decision making but i dont think he controlled him in battle.

  61. “Well, if your attacks have no effect on your opponent while their’s can kill you, then who of the two is stronger?? ”

    *sigh* you’re not getting it. What’s the point of strength if you can only beat 1 person in the entire world? Kisame is a stronger ninja, Guy was just the wrong opponent for him.

    Look at my example up above about One Piece. Idk, try reading that story and you’ll see how different powers can make someone infinitely weaker than an enemy triumph over that enemy. Let’s say someone is powerful enough to wipe out continents with lightning attacks, lets call him A. Then there is someone called B. B is extremely weak but is made of rubber. This automatically means B will always win, no matter how strong A is. So B is not stronger, he just has the right ability to counter A’s and make his useless.

    Another example, ever play a Pokemon game? A level 20 Pokemon can easily lose to a level 12 Pokemon if it has the right abilities. The sheer fact that Kisame, at not even full strength, can still put up a fight against an opponent that has an advantage means he’s stronger.

    @yellowflash, I have to thank you. You made me realize I really was wrong on the whole chakra thing. I came to this realization while watching Phineas and Ferb (don’t ask me what that has to do with Naruto).

    Sameahda absorbed BEE’S chakra, NOT the Hachibi’s. In this chapter Bee’s a-ok, but last chapter he was unable to move. That also explains why he couldn’t move from just having about 6 tails (at the most) worth of chakra stolen from him. This means Kisame wasn’t even near his full strength.

  62. @ Kisu, Are pigs flying or did hell freeze over? This is a shock, we should put this up somewhere on the site, Kisuzachi admitted he was wrong. I won’t rub it in thank you.

  63. @YF2

    Kisu does that when he is watching something sometimes. He has a epiphany be it an agreement or an arguement.

  64. @Kisu – who said Guy can only defeat one person in the world, as far as we know, he’s at least as strong as kakashi and is more than a match for Kisame.

    Like i said before, we haven’t really seen all of what Guy can do, so far all we’ve seen is his Gate releases. I am sure that he has some very good ninja techs that he hasn’t unveiled yet. so as far as i know, he is stronger than Kisame.

    Every character has someone they just cannot beat. no-one can defeat everyone, so for me, when i am comparing two characters, i look for who will win in a battle between the two.

    I am sure that there are equaly as much ninjas that guy can beat as there are that kisame can beat. so head to head guy wins, then guy in stronger. simple as that

  65. @ryu, exactly. My mind works in mysterious ways…even I don’t understand it sometimes lol

  66. @cesc, ur opinion I suppose. If the examples I gave can’t make u realize what strength really is, then nothing can. I’m not saying Guy is weak, I’m saying Kisame’s stronger, and just because he lost to Guy doesn’t make him weaker. Kisame can destroy Islands with Shark Tsunamis, I’m sure Guy cant do that lol.

  67. I just realised, why are we all assuming that Tobi only has one eye???

    Danzo always kept one of his eyes covered but that did not mean he did not have an eye there.

    I am not saying Madara is Shisui or Obito or whoever, I’ve given up on that. He could be anyone, so for the mean time, until it is revealed otherwise, Tobi is Madara. and as well, I won’t go under the assumption that he only has one eye.

  68. @ Ryu1978

    I like your theory on Yagura never actually having a relationship with his beast, but even if it was a modicum of communication between his beast and him from what was said he had control. I’m pretty sure Madara at the time wasn’t their for when he became one with the 3 tails. It was stated he and the others could completely control it. So why not think that after he was able to control it Madara sharigan actually genjustu both of them at the same time.

    For all we know his ability is the S/T, but when he faught the 4th Hokage he controlled the beast. So I’m pretty sure his genjustu well exceeds Itachi or any past Uchiha.

    It’s not to far-fetched if you catch what I mean. I can’t comprehend how Uchiha Madara is so intelligent, so collected, so powerful, and yet he lost to the 1st. It’s really amazing. I guess you can say it was a bad match-up. Like for instance this Kisame vs. Guy battle or a Luffy vs Enel. Match-ups really do matter. Big up’s to the 1st Hokage.

  69. I think I’ve mentioned this before but Yagura is going to be in my next issue of Revenge of the YellowFlash, he was going to be in it far before this chapter came out and I think you guys are going to like it.

  70. @Larry, when he fought the First he couldnt be older than 30. But he’s lived for decades, so of course he’s gonna get stronger. Plus Kishi revealed in this year’s fanbook that Madara did NOT have his space-time jutsu when he fought Hashirama.

  71. @Larry
    Maybe it was Madara how controled the 3tailed in 4th mizukages body and then people thought that it was him controling it beacuse they never saw madara…

  72. or maybe he controled the beast to and having them both under sepperate genjutsus and din´t let them mix ther chakra to get out of the genjutsu´s

  73. @kisu

    Well I would argue that Madara’s body was destroyed and he’s using someone elses… and that someone has different sharingan powers than Madara had.

    I would argue that Madara’s lineage has Amaterasu, Tsukyomi, Susanoo (i.e. Sasuke & Itachi are direct descendants of Madara or his brother), and a different lineage (Obito’s) had different space-time jutsus like Kamui and the Tobi transport swirl jutsu (because it doesn’t have a name, so lets just call it the TTSJ).

    Could you provide a link to that fanbook or a quote Kisu? I mean, even Amaterasu, Tsuk, & Susanoo are space-time ninjutsu when you think about it.

  74. “Could you provide a link to that fanbook or a quote Kisu?”

    That’s gonna be a tad challenging, but I’m up for it if you can read Japanese 🙂

  75. @kisu

    I can’t read Japanese, there was someone on the Forums who did translate for me once in a while though.

  76. @kisu-

    Sorry im disagreeing with you here.

    Kisame absorbed seperate chakra’s from bee and the interogation guy, plus whatever chakra’s he was able to gain back after resting with his previous fight with KB. Wich would mostly likely be a considerable amount of time seeing as kishi just skipped over the time it took to get there.

    And true strength is not just overal brute power, real strength is using your techniques WISELY. For instance, even if someone had abilities that could counter your own, if you used them differently you could still win. It just takes ingenuity and the strength to back that up.

    So even if kisame can take out an island, it doesnt mean jack shit if guy just avoids the attack and uses a similarly strong attack like the afternoon tiger. Which is extreemly strong as we saw affecting miles of radius outwards even bending down trees. Its all about how you utilize your skills correctly against ANY opponent, regardless of their techniques. that is real strength

  77. I do think guy is stronger physically during his gate releases but the facts are kisame is obviously used to stealing peoples chakra to win and it’s kinda lame really he’s so strong his chakra level is huge an instead of trying to fight on guys terms he wanted to steal guys chakra really. Kisu you really just got to hand it to guy, wether or not kisame is gonna die by whoever guy still owned him and was quite impressive the fact he is still standing after using 7 gates is insane. An if kismet has as much chakra as everyone says an his power is unpararell he shoulda finished guy in 2 mins as kisu stated kismet is the sun an guy was a little meteor or whatever lol guy shoulda been finished before it started

  78. @smartass, “Kisame absorbed seperate chakra’s from bee and the interogation guy, plus whatever chakra’s he was able to gain back after resting with his previous fight with KB. Wich would mostly likely be a considerable amount of time seeing as kishi just skipped over the time it took to get there.”

    Hmm, Konoha Chunin are known for their exceptionally high chakra levels right? And like I said, he absorbed BEE’s chakra, not the Hachibi’s and Kisame has Biju level chakra naturally, which means he was not at full power. Also, when he released himself from Samehada did you see how emaciated he was? He obviously didn’t recover an chakra in that period, he may have in fact lost chakra.

    “And true strength is not just overal brute power, real strength is using your techniques WISELY. For instance, even if someone had abilities that could counter your own, if you used them differently you could still win. It just takes ingenuity and the strength to back that up. ”

    Yeah, and that’s exactly what Kisame did. Considering he wasn’t at full strength and nearly beat Guy (who was using hax power like the Curse Seal), then that means Kisame really is the stronger of the two. Also, I consider sheer brute force powerful. But that’s where someone stronger can lose. Naruto in Part 1 was just a dumb powerhouse and could be beaten by anyone that was sufficiently smart, even though he was technically stronger.

    “Its all about how you utilize your skills correctly against ANY opponent, regardless of their techniques. that is real strength”

    I disagree, real strength is how much shit you can blow up in a certain amount of time. Btw, nice to see you around 🙂

    @Minatofan, “Kisu you really just got to hand it to guy, wether or not kisame is gonna die by whoever guy still owned him and was quite impressive the fact he is still standing after using 7 gates is insane”

    Yep, I give Guy his props for owning a weakened Kisame by using his strongest jutsu. Think of it this way, Guy used 6 Gates to beat Kisame at only 30%, now unless gate 7 makes you more than 3x stronger than u at gate 6, there’s no way Guy is stronger than a full powered Kisame.

  79. Just watched the latest naruto shippiuden video is it lame that I got teary eyed lol

  80. can anyone tell me why the first (Hashirama) wasnt able to get the power of the sage of six paths.

  81. @Minatofan, new episodes come out on thursdays 🙂 Yeah, that one was pretty good. The episode before it was a real tearjerker though 😥

  82. At miles Probally the same reason tsunadebdoesnt or madara or sasuke there all just decendents an maybe narutos a reincarnation which is unlikely because naruto doesn’t have special eyes but kishi did say at the end naruto will have the baddest looking eyes ever at some point which I thought he was talking about when naruto mixed sage mode an fox mode but i doubt that now lol who knows

  83. Have a question for you site vets before I post a theory I have.

    Does the sharingan have to be activated first before it is transplanted for use in another person? I am assume the answer is yes.

    If yes is the answer how can the 5th Mizukage’s bodyguard Ao turn his bayukagan on and off? Which if I remember correctly he is able to do

  84. @Lord Hyuga
    I don’t think so, if that were the case Itachi’s eyes would be useless to Sasuke, since technically Itachi’s Sharingan all but disappeared before he died, he was blind and his eyes lost their “light”, so I don’t think they have to be active. Also if I remember correctly when Madara flashed back to when he took his brothers eyes, his brother did not have them activated, they were in normal state, meaning that if an eye has the potential to activate the Sharingan it can be implanted into another user and used by that user.

  85. @Smartass thank you dude.

    @Kisu you are obviously too immature to admit defeat. I have no idea why you are claiming Kisame wasn’t at full strength, sure, he did not have samaheda but remember samaheda wasn’t his in the first place. Kisame had time to recover ALL his chakra after the fight with Bee. Sure he got a heavy blow from Naruto, but last I checked getting punched doesn’t deplete your chakra. Considering he has biju level chakra, plus the 1 he stole frm Bee and the othr guy, he should have had way more more chakra than Guy.

    Just read what smartass said, he makes perfect sense. All you’re being right now is a lil bitch ass girl who’s refusing to accept that she’s been dumpt. Go watch more Phineas and Ferb, hopefully you’ll have another epiphomy and come to realise that Guy is trully more powerful than Kisame.

  86. On a side note, why couldn’t the Pain Invasion Arc be like the last two anime episodes, they were epic and tear inducing. Oh and I don’t think Kisame is dead, well at least, not yet anyway can’t wait for next weeks chapter.

  87. “On a side note, why couldn’t the Pain Invasion Arc be like the last two anime episodes, they were epic and tear inducing”

    Because the animators don’t want to raise our standards too high. The make crappy episodes to lower our expectations and then they give us a good episode…genius…evil genius

  88. “@Kisu you are obviously too immature to admit defeat. I have no idea why you are claiming Kisame wasn’t at full strength”

    No, you just haven’t given me any sufficient evidence to counter the MANGA pages I posted above. So I have the manga backing me up here. Also, what is with you people and throwing unfunny insults? I mean, if you can’t be creative then don’t bother. I don’t throw insults because its unbecoming and not everyone is like me and can laugh at themselves.

  89. @ John on the sharingan, think about what you just said…all those examples were Uchihas. Danzo and Kakashi’s sharingans were/are always active

  90. @Kisu
    Yet their is no evidence that the Sharingan need remain active in order to transplant it. Think about this, the Sharingan consumes chakra, more so on non-Uchiha’s, like Kakashi and Danzo, how could Danzo, a non-Uchiha gains so many Sharingan from dead Uchiha, while they were dead? A dead shinobi, emits no chakra, since chakra is a mixture of physical energy and spiritual energy, they need to be alive, therefore the Sharingan is not active, since it lacks chakra to remain active, since the shinobi is not alive. Therefore, since Danzo obtained his Sharingan from the dead Shisui and dead Uchiha’s it is safe to assume that their Sharingan’s were not active, since they were dead and lacking chakra. In conclusion, no life, no chakra, no sharingan activation, no sharingan activation required for transplant and new Sharingan user, just like in Danzo’s case. I hope you don’t get confused by the logic.

  91. @John, you bring up a very good pint my friend, but I’ll personally consider this a plothole. The fact is, if he could cancel the Sharingans, Danzo would have no need to seal them up. Kishi just didn’t think it through….or maybe the Uchihas weren’t dead when he took out their eyes. It was never actually stated he got them in the massacre.

  92. At kisu kakashi has his covered up so I’m sure danzou having his sealed up is for another purpose I also think the whole fusion of the eyes is lime the same with dbz like when goku an vegeta were beat up an when they fused it was like there bodies were healed an gained new powers I think it’s the same effect with the eyes once there combined or whatever they’ll be Luke new so until we know more I think itachi being bout blind an saulsukes eyes being wore out tobis irrevelent

  93. @john you’re right, the sharingan does not need to be activated to be transplanted. Like you said, it needs chakra to remain activated, once the user dies, it goes back to normal.

    I am sure that Itachi’s sharingan went back to normal when he died, but since Madara was still able to transplant it to Sasuke, its safe to assume that it does not need to be activated.

    I think once a none uchia activates a sharingan, he’she can no longer revert it back to normal, unless they were to die of course.
    This is not the case for the Byuakugan, the user, whether a hyuaga or a none clan member, can activate and diactivate it at will.

    Okay, you guys are getting a little heated on this conversation aren’t ya? It’s okay to disagree with someone but throwing insults are not allowed.

    First we all know Samehada doesn’t really belong to Kisame, so Samehada shouldn’t be explained as apart of Kisame’s strength level.

    According to Chojiro: ” That man possess chakra on the level of a Jinchuuriki, and Samehada. Put him and that blade together and you will have a human who is able to wield just as much power as a Jinchurriki, effectively a bijuu without a tail.

    This could mean Kisame has Jinchuuriki level chakra on his own or Samehada is the one who boosts his chakra to this level.

    I believe Chojiro meant, that as long as Kisame has Samehada he can utilize as much chakra as a Jinchuuriki/bijuu. Now that Kisame doesn’t have Samehada he doesn’t have those chakra reserves.

    1. Just look how Kisame constantly uses Samehada to replenish his chakra and heal him, we saw this during his first fight with KB after KB used six tails Lariat, Samehada was the one absorbing the chakra and Kisame absorbed it and used it to provide himself with stamina, chakra, and healing abilities also when they fuse. This shows that Samehada has everything to do with his Bijuu level strength.

    2. Also we found out from Kisame that he and Samehada have the same chakra which is why during his fight with Neji, Neji thought his chakra was just as strong as Naruto because together they are strong as a bijuu. Neji couldn’t tell that they were two seperate beings just with the same chakra.

    3. In his fight with KB, he couldn’t heal himself or regain any chakra unless he had Samehada in his hand just like here in the waterfall, and in his first fight when Samehada started to help KB by giving him chakra Kisame was so desperate to stop this, he even stated Samehada was giving away his chakra.

    Face it, Kisame’s Jinchuuriki level chakra, healing abilities both come from Samehada all of this is supported by the manga pages. What all this means is Kisame’s true strength and chakra is not on bijuu level, that’s what I think and these facts support my opinion. He was not able to use these super techniques until he had contact with Samehada. Which means Samehada made Kisame the bad ass he was but that doesn’t make him any less special because Samehada is a ninja tool and is fair game.

    I also believe when he fought Guy he was at full strength, when he touched Samehada and his wound from Naruto was healed because it disappears and he no longer was bleeding from the mouth and his body pumped up with bubbles and everyone knows those line marks that kishi drew meant his chakra was completely restored, you know what lines I’m talking about.

  95. @yellowflash2– so what level tailed beast do you tink Kisame is at then? Well Kisame has some a big chakra reserves which is constantly topped up by Samehada. What is special about Kisame then is his unnaturally high level of stamina which he uses in conjunction with the constant flow of chakra to create these huge moves. Everyone knows if you dont havt stamina then you cant create jutsu’s. So like Naruto, kisame has a huge stamina battery.

    It would be interesting to know how long the pure chakra from Kyubi would last. and how fast it would be topped up by Kyubi! Well im thinking its limitless but i would assume it would bottle neck at some point or his stamina would drain.

  96. This goes to the fellas talking about the Sharingans. This maybe a plothole like Kisu said but remember this.


    Those are from dead Uchiha members and by cesc own words

    “Like you said, it needs chakra to remain activated, once the user dies, it goes back to normal.”

    That page in itself makes that statement wrong. Itachi just went blind that is why we think his went back to normal but that is not the case as his eyes were still red even after he did, I believe, So his Sharingans were still active but only do to blindness the tomoe and lines disappear. So we do not really know for sure but based on the wall full of Sharingans It is more safe to assume that Sharingans do not deactivate when they dead while it is still active or the eye is removed from the user which means no chakra is emitting into the eyes but it is still ac tive. The same case as of Kakashi and Obito. Though the eye was without chakra for maybe a few minutes it still was without chakra. And remember Danzo had to have the 1st Hokage’s DNA implanted into his right shoulder to help control the Sharingans with the DNA’s chakra. But we have the flashback of “Madara” Where he takes his brother’s eyes while they are not activated however Flashback usually sometimes leaves out detail until fixed later on plus this is Madara-Tobi we are talking about.

    So that is where the plothole is likely to have happened. Based of this I say no they do not have to be activated to transplant into another Uchiha’s eyes. Non-Uchiha’s I say yes but that can change unlike my Uchiha one. When a Uchiha dies with it activated, it does not deactivate. When it is removed activated it does not deactivate.

    That is my take on this.

  97. @ryu1978
    I don’t think it’s a plot hole, remember when Kakashi was talking about hunter nins in the very beginning of Naruto during the Zabuza Arc, he said that renegade Shinobi’s are completely eliminated less an enemy discover the secrets of the respective village tech’s and medicines, through the corpse. He said that if he should die and an enemy take possession of his body, then they too might be able to uncover the workings of his Sharingan and in the worst case scenario gain possession of the Sharingan. I don’t think its impossible to activate a Sharingan after the eyeball has been plucked out and studied, specially by talented Shinobi like Oro, Tsunade, Kabuto, Madara and others who have intimate knowledge of human physiology, they could in fact find many ways to “reanimate” the eyeball in order so it’s activated and even a Non-Uchiha can use it. Just like Oro helped Danzo with his Sharingan’s given that Oro has intimate knowledge of the human body due to all his experimentation’s. But all in all I tend to agree with your comment.

  98. One thing I would comment on though is that not all Uchiha get Sharingan eyes, so the Uchiha whose eyes are taken would at least need to have the potential to develop Sharingan. I don’t know if a non-Uchiha could then activate the Sharingan or not. It is true that we have seen a non-Uchiha get MS (Kakashi).

    To help illustrate the above example, let me say it would be like Kakashi getting Obito’s eye BEFORE Obito could use the Sharingan. Would Kakashi then be able to awaken the sharingan? I’m not so sure. Then again, he was able to awaken the MS.

  99. Minatofan, thanks man i really dont wright this was my first time. its cool talking to people about naruto

  100. Thank you everybody who answered my question you guys truly are the best!

    Now unto another one of my theory’s that once again maybe way way out there.

    Tobi has a room full of sharingans, some of us have speculated hes been eye swapping, which I doubt, because so far we have only seen him using control of people/beasts and space time jutsu. He could be saving them to go the extreme Danzo route and cover his body in sharingans, but even if he did that, their would still be some left over. In addition the prevailing idea which I support is that Tobi’s true ambition is to max out Naruto’s body so that he can take it over with implanted maxed out Sasuke’s eyes. So that he can control/host the Jubei.

    I and others have been speculating how Tobi is going to take on the world with a practically non existent Akatsuki. My answer is with his family, I believe that all those sharingans are for Uchiha he is going to resurrect or they were not all really killed. Because just think about it , I know this is a manga, but does anybody believe that the supposed great Uchiha clan could be wiped out in night by just 2 people?

  101. U know lord hyuga u bring up a interesting possibility……. What if the majority of the.uchiha are not dead??? Perhaps zetsu or lots of creatures like zetsu were planted around to look like uchiha corpses. As powerful as itachi and Tobias are even for them wiping out an entire warrior clan in one night and stealthily at that always seemed weird to me. Perhaps madara is gonna fight konoha with a alive and well uchiha clan perhaps?

  102. I know this is off topic but what does everyone think when kishi stated naruto at one point would have the coolest looking eyes?

  103. well actually since till yet all the dialogues of kisame have been too simple and passive……….a sudden outburst of passion and resolution is quite astonishing yet enjoyable to see wont you agree?

  104. Lord huyga I agree with you yeah itachi was a beast an madara or whoever he is ain’t no slouch but really how can 2 ppl kill an entire clan With out the rest of the village hearing all the ruckus it’s just suspicious to me

  105. @Lord Hyuga, or how about giving those Sharingans to random ninja? That makes more sense than giving them to the power hungry members of their clan. I don’t doubt the fact that a ninja of Itachi’s capabilities as well as with Madara, could wipe out his entire clan in one night. Hidan slaughtered his entire Village when they decided that they wont be a ninja village anymore, so why couldn’t Itachi kill a number of people less than a Village when he was clearly stronger and smarter than Hidan?

  106. @ Minatofan you bring up something that has bothered me from the first time it was mentioned that Itachi killed his clan in one night. How did nobody in the village hear what was going on?

    @Kisu I agree with you about the sharingans possibly being handed out to random ninja.

    But sorry Kisu, Hidan’s past doesn’t quite apply here, he killed a village. Itachi and Madara killed a clan in a village that is the size of a large city.

    The only way the story we have been told so far about the massacre could happen, is if every Uchiha was sound asleep. Does that sound plausible to you Kisu?

    Were their no Uchiha away on any missions that night, if they were all recalled home, that should have set off alarm bells for the whole clan.

    The Uchiha were supposed to be one of the strongest clans in the Naruto Universe, and nobody on that night screamed, shouted, ran for help to alert the village.

    Itachi and Madara killing their clan should have been like world war 3, half the village should have been destroyed.

    If I’m a Uchiha with a sharingan and Itachi is coming after me, I’m blasting him with the most powerful jutsu I got, to wake up everybody.

    I’m calling BS on the story we have been told about the Uchiha massacre, even in a story set in a fictional fantasy land, it is implausible that the whole village didn’t wake up because of this massacre going on.

    If the massacre went down as stated its the worst plot hole in the history of human fiction.

  107. I agree with huyga it’s either a huge plot whole or something else is going on an kisu hidan murdered normal ppl as far as we know I’m just not sold on 2 ppl murdering a powerful clan with out the whole village not knowing what’s goin on yeah you can say the 3rd hokage an the 3 other ppl knew what was goin on buy not the rest of the village an huyga makes a good point not one uchiha was out on a mission or nething I find that odd I mean really they can murder an entire clan in stealth with out one person not being able to leave an get help from the village

  108. I agree with the fact that it is kind of weird that the Uchiha was wiped out by only two people. I understand Itachi and Madara are strong but this is the Uchiha clan we are talking about, is Kishi saying that only Itachi and Shisui were the only strong ninja in the clan at the time? This is a great mystery, we know so much about that night but nothing really adds up. The way Kishi has it, it’s like the Uchiha are no better that the we Anbu black ops or chuunin and jonin who gets killed easily in the manga.

    I don’t know about the Uchiha being alive, I mean it could be possible with all the infomation we don’t know yet but it is a little out there and it kind of takes away the from Sasuke because this is his destiny to avenge the Uchiha, it could be possible because this could be the ultimate illusion set by madara and the Uchiha.

  109. Who knows, this could even be Uchihas doing, maybe this Masked guy isn’t any one person, maybe it’s mutliple Uchiha clan members acting together to take control over the ninja world. This could all have been their plan from the beginning, no one knows what their true plan was to take over and who knows if they were just after Konoha.

    The Uchiha were missing the night of the Kyuubi attack and they knew were Kushina would be and the sharingan can control the Kyuubi and that expplains the non mangekyou sharingan controlling the Kyuubi, they also know how to enter in and out of the village undetected and based on the fact that they were so suspicious that Itachi would betray them, I doubt they would just let their guard down knowing he lives in the same compound. What if that knight was just one huge illusion of the Uchiha, they could have place one hell of a genjutsu on Itachi, maybe a small teaser to doing the same to the entire ninja world.

  110. yellowflash2 I like your idea about that night being one giant genjutsu, it could have been a trick on Itachi & a test for the moon eye plan. during kushina’s flashback some people speculated Tobi could be both Sasuke’s parents playing the role at different times. That could explain why Tobi appears to be different in the flashbacks. I don’t think it was a coincidence Kushina met Sasuke’s mom before she gave birth.

    Now I’m really excited about the upcoming
    chapters. Hopefully Kishi won’t keep us waiting on the truth about that night.

  111. kisame is not going to die. this is were itachi’s gift to naruto comes in to play. we know that some how itachi developed some friendship relationship with kisame and i think itachi assumed that naruto will be present when kisame is at the verge of death and this will be the way to unlock madara’s plans for good. its like naruto is going to baptize kisame for all of the sins and lies in the ninja world.

  112. I agree with most of everyones agreement on the matter of the Uchihas and only two people taking out a powerful clan like them but we must remember that like every Uchiha was a master with their eyes.

    Look at Obito. He was almost as worse as Naruto when Naruto first started out. Yeah when his eyes activated he was pretty good for the moment but every Ninja has their super power start moment. And remember Itachi beat three Clan members of his Father’s Police Force right outside of his house. They showed up to the house, that in tell me that they alone were pretty strong to confront an ANBU member like Itachi and they got PWNED. Plus not everyone in the Clan were ninjas and not everyone from what we know did all have the ability to activate the Sharingan. I also feel but we may never know that Shisui was killed for two reasons. one of course the M.S. but the other being he was probably the only other Uchiha that could keep up with and/or beat Itachi so he had to get rid of the competition. On the thing with Tobi, His S/T jutsu we more than enough to nearly take out Minato who I suspect was equal to Itachi in skills and since most Uchihas at the time skill level was under Itachi’s, it may have been a piece of cake for him to take out many Uchihas but still both alone is still fishy as hell.

    I forgot something. I know that the Uchihas were suspected of the fox attack but where was it said that the Uchihas knew where Kushina was giving birth, If you say Mikoto said to the clan is speculation, and where was it said the entire clan was not around when the Fox attack. It was only said Sasuke and Itachi’s parents weren’t around if I remember but I can be wrong.

  113. One question, has anyone ever thought of why some people just showed up once and disappears unexplained? I was looking at Kagami Uchiha. The Uchiha that was with Danzo and Hiruzen on that mission with the Second Hokage. Do you think he could possibly be Tobi. Wild idea but think. We told Danzo something along the lines of long time no see, Do you think that Madara was worried about a non Uchiha baby as Danzo was most like a baby or little kid during that time. Plus he could be a good candidate in the age group as seen when he took his mask of to Sasuke he was old looking plus we never heard anything about him or how he died. We assume it was during the Massacre. Like I said wild idea but a good guess you would say.

  114. He is the only member of that group not shown again in the manga after the teams quick introduction.

  115. @ryu1978

    I truly believe that Itachi was forced to kill Shisui because Shisui was spying on Itachi and not to say that Itachi got caught, but maybe Shisui confronted Itachi about it, and so he had no choice but to kill Shisui.

    As to during the fox attack, there was no Uchiha shown during the fights against the fox. Since the Uchiha are a prominent clan, you would think we would have seen at least one, but Bob pointed out that Kishi made it clear by showing none during that fight.

    It’s possible, about Danzo’s teammate, but also we have no idea what happened to Minato’s teammates, and we’ve seen them once too. I think that Kishi has options for fleshing out the story, but when I try and think about what might happen in Naruto, I think about it according to Occam’s Razor:

    The simplest idea is probably the right one. Kishi introducing some new character to be Tobi (even one he only showed once) would mean Kishi would have to write at least a background the length of Kakashi Gaiden, and to do it at this point, it would seem like he’s just doing it to make his story work.

    I hope Kishi has planned things out a bit more and the real answer is right in front of us, that we have seen half-truths through some illusion just like Itachi used to create. I just think about Kakashi Gaiden, and while it isn’t in the main part of the story, it must have some significance… but that’s just what I think.

  116. You know what interest me is what do you all think minatos ninja stats would be I know its off subject but I’d really like to know his stats I’d say his intelligence is 5, speed 5, seals 5 , strength 4 or 5 I think it’s pretty likely that if kishi did his stats they’d be higher than jiraiyas same with the 3rd I wanna see his stats in his prime an nagatos before he was wheelchair ridin I’d specially like to see narutos stats right now sorry for the off subject stuff just have always been curious about all that

  117. Go check out mynext issue of “Revenge of the YellowFlash”, please comment.

  118. @minatofan, lol the Third’s stats were only 34.5 i believe

  119. @Kisu
    His stats were exactly 34. The thing with stats is, that according to the databooks, they are only representations of characters at their base form, meaning a character like Naruto, who would normally get trounced by any 30 stater, has an edge because he can get insane power up’s with the Kyuubi’s help and Sage Mode, even if his base stats are lower. Same with Sasuke, who spammed the curse seal as well. Think of it this way, the stats represents their base form without any power ups, yet a transformation doesn’t equate a power up, unless its said it does, like Sasori in his Hiruko form is probably handicapped, limited speed, limited taijutsu and stuff. I like stats but they rarely tell the whole story, yet they tell a large portion of it. I see Minato between 34 and 36 in stats, more is highly doubtful.

    Nin-5 Tai-4.5 Gen-4 Stre-3 Sta-4 Sp-5 Int-5 Seal-5=35.5

    Well, according to how I broke it down, it seems, Minato is tied with Itachi and Jiraiya in the stat department, any qualms?

  120. @John, i knew all that about the stats since i use them as references, but many others don’t.

    Also, why would you give Minato that many in Genjutsu? We haven’t seen him do any and its never been called one of his strengths. The highest I’d give him is 3.

  121. @Kisu
    The reason, I gave him a 4, was because some would argue that at least he’s better than Jiraiya in that department due to his intelligence being slightly higher and since both are correlated I gave him .5 higher than Jiraiya since his intelligence is .5 higher. I would not give him any more in genjutsu, anymore and that would total B.S. as you said that is not what he is known for. Taijutsu, he won’t get a 5 either, he matches Jiraiya and Itachi at best, which is 4.5. Strength is his lowest attribute, because lets face it, he hasn’t shown much physical strength, he specializes in Ninjutsu and their has to be trade-offs. Stamina at 4 seems adequate, because he is not known for his large chakra reserves, he just has great chakra control. So as I see it Minato at worst could be a 34 and at best maybe a 35.5, depends on how Kishi decides to distribute the points.

  122. Do they have any of these data books in English yet?

  123. @Lord Hyuga
    I think they have Databook 1 in English, Databook 2 and 3 are translated by people on the internet, but I don’t think they are out in English yet, well at least not officially. Forums usually translate individual pages, specially those of interest.

  124. Thanks John, can I get this on Amazon?

  125. At kisu his stats at an old age was 34 I’m sure he was stronger when he was younger an also u said why did John make minatos genjustu high since he was shown not using any andidnt specialize in it well I believe the 3rd hokages was. A 5 an I don’t recall him ever using genjutsu just don’t say the 3rd hokage stats wouldn’t get worse as he gets older cause everyone gets weaker an slower as time goes by

  126. I think stats are tricky look at guy his strength is a 5 an so is kisames but we all know kisame is stronger physically

  127. Kisame is well, was, clearly one of the strongest shinobi in the anime. I wonder if they sell Replicas of the Samehada. I would totally buy. Lets just say luck was on Gai’s side caz I really thought that Kisame would win….

  128. @Mangekyou, exactly. Well said. And yes, they do sell Samehada replicas (and Zabuza swords too, I have one ^^).

    @Minatofan, meh.



    Konan vs Madara. Let’s see if she’s as useless as most assume

  129. @kisu

    My guess is she will have something in place that she THINKS could beat Madara, and we probably would think so too, until he pulls an ace from his sleeve. It will be interesting though. Too bad that Naruto’s ally won’t live that long. If I was Konan though, I would have had the Rin’negan sealed a long time ago.

  130. Also, this scene makes the theory that Tobi gave Sasuke the Rin’negan bunk… too bad, I liked that one.

  131. @John. I have to agree with Kisu. We cant come to any conclusions in giving him such high genjutsu stats. We havent seen him do any although he is very intelligent that opinion is absured

  132. Madara is weak in his own way. Not saying Konan would win. Uhh that one is tough having seen that madara has an eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and his Ghostly body form. I doubt Konan stands a chance and at the same time we know how anime goes. In this situation they would have Konan win.

  133. any arguments toward last comment

  134. @Kisu, kool ill be puttn that on my shopping list

  135. Just pointing out tobi hasn’t shows ms yet but maybe if he does have it konan will bring it out lol

  136. Kisu all I’m saying is that I’m sure the old mans strength stats an endurance would be better in his prime

  137. @minatofan, thats true

  138. I just wonder when kishi says minato an hiruzen are tied for strongest dead shinibi if he means when the 3rd was in his prime or when he was old

  139. New chapter is out!!!!

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