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Chapter 502 – Don’t Mess With the Yellow Flash

naruto-retro1Post Author: Bob

Wow, what an awesome chapter we have this week. Continuing off of the cliffhanger of last chapter, Minato faces off against the fox and Madara in the epic showdown we’ve been dying to see since the very beginning of this series. Now this is the type of storytelling and action sequence which had me hooked on Naruto from the early chapters. Kishi has really brought in his A-game in this flashback story arc. If this chapter doesn’t convince people that Minato should deserves his own spin-off series, I don’t know what will.

What made Minato such an awe-inspiring character in this and the previous chapter were not his combat skills or unique use of teleport techniques, but his ability to stay calm and rationally analyze his opponent and think through his every move in a situation that would make most men to panic like a headless chicken. I mean to be able to trade blows with the most powerful villain currently know in the Naruverse while managing to save his son and rescue his wife (albeit a tad late) takes an amazing amount of balls. Minato is facing off against someone who just tried to murder his newborn son and pretty much doomed his wife, yet he shows no signs of agitation or blinding hate coming into this battle. And all the while Minato also has to place his responsibilities as a Hokage at the forefront and put his life on the line to protect the village. Some might argue that Minato had his priorities wrong and placed the lives of his wife and son before the wellbeing of Konoha. After all, if Minato had simply allowed Madara to take his son and escaped with his wife or simply killed his wife to prevent the Kyuubi from escaping, the entire mess afterwards wouldn’t have happened. But knowing how much of an analytical fighter Minato is, I’m betting he ran through all the scenarios in his head already and believed he did have a good chance to save Kushina and Naruto, as well as protect the village. There’s no doubt his paternal instincts had a strong influence over his decision, but what father wouldn’t put everything on the line if he knew he had a chance to save his family? For a young kage like Minato, the split second life or death decisions he had to make would drive even a seasoned kage to the brink. But Minato remained collected and made smart and precise decisions throughout this encounter with Madara. Minato was picked to be the Fourth for more than just his ninja abilities alone, and I think these few chapters will demonstrate what the definition of a great leader really is.

Although this chapter was mostly filled with high flying-space/time phasing-teleport spamming-action sequences, there were quite a few tidbits of information thrown around to warrant some interesting discussions.
– At the beginning in the scene where Itachi is holding Sasuke: notice that both Itachi and Sasuke sense a change in the chakra around them even before the Kyuubi is summoned into Konoha; Kakashi notices this too but likely not to the same degree. This chakra sensitivity is obviously the first sign of a future powerful shinobi.
– Itachi’s parents both went somewhere prior to the appearance of the Kyuubi. This could be pure coincidence but the fact that Kishi went out of his way to point this out likely means it is significant. Could it be that the theory that the Uchiha were actually collaborating with Madara is actually true?
– I was sure Madara would need at least a Mangekyou Sharigan to control something as powerful as the Kyuubi, but this chapter and last clearly show he is using only a normal Sharingan. Is the Kyuubi that susceptible to genjutsu / dojutsu or is something more happening here?
– Minato’s space/time barrier technique teleporting away a chakra cannon shot = AWESOME. He needs to come back from the dead and teach this to Naruto as soon as this flashback is over.
– this chapter demonstrated how Minato’s teleport technique has pretty much limitless range. What we know is that he can pretty much go wherever his seal is placed and the distances he traveled in an instant in this chapter must have been at least a couple of miles. Not only that, Minato is able to selectively choose his destination at will and initiate teleport with just a single hand seal — I would call it pure hacks in a normal situation but when you compare it to Madara’s abilities, Minato’s teleportation looks kind of tame doesn’t it?
– Minato speaking to Madara on page 11: “On second thought, it doesn’t matter who you are.” LOL, the Truth has been spoken! Finally we can stop all this cyclical debate of who Madara/Tobi/Obito/Danzo/Sage/Shisui/YourMama really is…. Hehe, yeah right.

That’s it for Bob today. Great job by J-sama last week with the ch.501 summary and kudos to the Shannaro community for making a new record for comments on a chapter discussion: 258! And all of it packed full of heated discussions and informed theories! I dare any Naruto blog out there to top that! See everyone next week.

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190 Responses

  1. Wow first can’t believe it

  2. Anyway this chapter shows Minato is not a weak ninja many of people reading the manga started to imply. Great chapter.

  3. Great job Bob, you always do an excellent job analyzing the details. Keep it up man!

    Minato is by no stretch of the meaning, weak. He is very strong, going toe-to-toe with “Madara” when no one else has done so, minus Danzo’s bodyguards but that didn’t end well lol.

    With the new information to the FTG, it’s second level, I’m curious if “THAT jutsu” is actually a heightened level of the technique that Minato was working on when the incident took place. This is the same theory/question I posted on the initial discussion board but here it is too lol.

  4. I completely agree with you Bob, when it comes to MInato, couldn’t have said it better myself and I hope a couple of Shannaro mates of my read this very slowly to get it through their heads! Minato was amazing in this chapter and was an amazing hokage and Naruto has to learn these techniques, not doing so would disgust me and if he’s going to fight Madara he better learn these techniques!

    Another thing is, I bet the second hokage was amazing, we knew he was unbelievable at water techniques and he was fast but he also used space time ninjutsu!

  5. When it comes to Sasukes parents they were probable called when the Kyuubi attacked to help the village or they were probably in on the attack, because it was kinda interesting that Kushina tells Mikoto that she was having the baby then she is nowhere to be found after! Maybe Sasuke’s father is the mask Akatsuki!

    Oh, and did i tell you guys how awesome Minato was in this chapter, UNBELIEVABLY AWESOME! He could kick Peins ass anyday!

  6. I bet Minato could kick Peins ass anyday, he’d just suck all of Peins jutsu into the space-time technique and quickly dispose of all bodies, come on if Naruto could MInato wouldn’t break a sweat!

  7. Also the 2nd Hokage used a space/time jutsu as well?
    Well learn something new every week these last few months. Man now Naruto has went from boring as all get out, to this super explosive manga that is turning heads. Like a fine ass woman walking past a group of young horny men.

  8. Sasuke’s father could be the masked man just look at his Sharingan, he is using the normal Sharingan and I don’t think Fugaku had the MS! Maybe Fugaku didn’t have a brother so what better way to gain the EMS by controlling you children!

  9. “When it comes to Sasukes parents they were probable called when the Kyuubi attacked to help the village or they were probably in on the attack,”
    They couldn’t have been summoned to help fight the Kyuubi because when young Itachi says his parents were gone in that first scene, nobody in Konoha knew the Kyuubi had escaped yet. Last chapter Madara something like he had been waiting a long time for this – ‘long’ doesn’t necessarilly mean going back to Madara’s era; I think it also implies that whoever is behind the mask has to be an older member of the Uchiha clan who has witnessed a lot of the things Konoha has done. So it’s very possible even Sasuke’s dad could be Madara.

  10. Minato is lightning God (thunder is sound, nd sound is much slower than light, nd Minato basically travels at the speed of light). Anywho, AWESOME chapter, and did I mention Minato’s beast.

    About Sasuke’s parent, it’s possible that they were in on the plan, but then one wonders why they would leave their new born child at home knowing that the fox would attack. Then again maybe Itachi was already his godly self and they were confident he would protect their baby incase anything happened.
    Another question is, did Itachi already know about the attack?
    Also, who amongst the Uchias were Obito’s parents? Surely they would have been great ninjas.

    One more thing, Can Kishi please write an arc for the second hokage??

  11. hmm good analysis bob
    i didn’t even see the connection between the uchiha’s ( and kakashi sensei) and the kyuubi before it even arrived.
    maybe there is more to it than we think
    could it be possible that the kyuubi has something to do with the sharingan?
    congrats to minato though
    i doubt that anyone would have been able to fight like that and win. but i’m kinda upset he’s not even showing a little emotion but hey war can do that to people…
    lastly!!! tobi is not madara but he is an uchiha
    i did find it odd that itachi’s parents were out and i don’t think it was for ‘ me time”
    but i don’t feel writing all the theory crap again so just know tobi is a uchiha who we don’ know yet and it’s giving me grey hair over it!

  12. @ryu, I dont think anyone implied Minato was weak lol. “Flee on sight”

    @Yellowflash, really, stop pushing it 🙂

    @cesc, hate to get all physics nerdy on you but..Its called Thunder God and not light god for a reason. Raikage achieves speed comparable to Minato’s through the use of Raiton, so Minato is as fast as lightning, not as fast as light. Lightning moves at 93000 miles per second while light moves at 186,000 miles per second, twice the speed of lightning (I’d also like to point out that it cant escape strong gravity 😉 ).

    Yeah, Minato was pretty cool this chapter. I doubt Fugaku is really Tobi though. He wasn’t anything special, and what really makes things weird is the fact that Tobi, in at least 2 of his 3 known forms, uses the space-time jutsu. The only Tobi not seen using it is the long haired one talking to Itachi. So the question is, is there more than one Tobi? Anyway, I wonder what Killerbee and Yamato are doing in the real world right now lol

    Anyway, I’ve heard some really crazy theories on who Tobi is, but I dont wanna say *whispersHashiramaandMito’schildwhispers* lol

  13. @anyone interested, TWO anime episodes were released today. Naruto Shippuden 168 and 169. Here’s a link to them (Deva Path gets Rasengan’d lol):
    http://animeready.com/anime/ongoing/naruto-shippuuden/

  14. lets keep our d*cks in our pants and not blow our loads too early. I mean I am one of those who doesn’t poll jock minato, but I didn’t say he was weak, just not fit to be hokage. Tsunade while not as powerful is a better kage, because when Pein attacked, she used he chakra to protect the villagers and called their trump card Naruto (danzou just happened to kill the frog hihi!)

    Minato still made bad decisions and had poor time management that exacerbated the issue. But good on Kishi for trying to plug the holes I’ve been identifying over the past few chapters. Good stuff.

    I still say Naruto doesn’t need FTG, as his use of kage buushin can have the same effect as FTG if his clones were stronger… Oh yea they are! 😉

  15. @bob

    as always, great analysis. about the uchiha working with madara, this could be true. maybe the uchiha fled the village so they can be out of the trouble. but why, leave sasuke and itachi behind if that’s the case?

  16. Madzikage, If anyone is blowing their loads it you an Kisu over Pein.

    “Tsunade is a better Hokage”

    Are you kidding me?, first of all she didn’t save all the villagers and they wouldn’t be alive if Pein didn’t bring them back! MInato may have not acted as fast as you wanted even though you are wrong, he managed to save the village by stopping Madara and the Kyuubi at the cost of his wife and himself! It doesn’t matter if he didn’t act fast enough as long as he still saved everyone!

    Tsunade made too many bad choices, she knew for years that Akatsuki would be coming after Naruto and the village and still did nothing to prepare and she let Sasuke live even though she could have been ordered his assassination and we would have to deal with the bastard!

    Get the stick out of you a** and just give up on this none since, you know what I’m done with debate! No hard feeling sorry for the nasty comments which you started!

  17. @Kisu-

    I dont think he’s pusshing it, im not sure if Minato could have deafeted him, but im not saying he wouldnt be able to, its been a long time since a different ninja has been able to impress me, but minato really is a fucking beast.

    @Madzikage-

    I completly disagree, he made exactly the right choices as a hokage, and his time management doesnt matter, tobi moves as fast/faster than minato does.

    AND minato DID protect the village, he fuked over kyuubi’s menacing ball with a damn kunai, seriously how many times have people been fuked over by one of those and minato just whiskes it away willy nilly. Him fighting Tobi was the right thing to do, the kyuubi can eventualy be handled, thru other means, while tobi is a much more dangerous (not neccesarily more powerful) threat due to his strange abilities, and his ambiguity.

    although i do agree the kage buunshin is cool, its not as useful as the flying thunder god technique, his clones are more of a way to utizilze is other abilities to a greater degree (kyuubi pwnge for example) its not a very suprising move agaisnt someone with the speed of tobi, just think of ALL naruto’s clones using the FTG…..thats a scary though when combined with sage mode garganutan rasengan barrage. or even better Kyuubi mode powers.

    @kisu-

    LOl raikage isnt nearly as fast as minato’s technique, raikage is no doubt fast, but that raiton armor is more of a blinding thing to distract the eye, while definitly increasing speed though not to the point of minato’s space time ninjutsu.

  18. wasn’t tobi wearing hand cuffs maybe sasuke parents help him escape

  19. @Smartass, according to Shi, the Raikage’s speed is comparable to the Yellowflash’s, which means he’s either a bit faster, a bit slower or equal. Over long distances, I’d say FTG is better than the Raiton armor, but when its one o one close quarters combat, Raiton Armor FTW! And its the same with me. The last ninja to really impress me was Pain (Kisame did as well, but he’s been one of my favorites the moment I heard he was from Kiri).

    @Yellowflash, nice to see you finally fold :). It doesn’t hurt Minato’s character that he didn’t make the right choices. I mean, look at Kakashi or Guy, those two are great characters, but they’d be terrible Hokages (Kakashi’s lazy and Guy takes Speed lol). I don’t know about Madzi, but I like Pain because of his ideology, his power just sealed the deal (if you really hate Pain, check out the anime episode 167, I guarantee you that you’ll get some laughs lol) 😀

  20. by the way, minato’s a wiseass. sharper than shikamaru and strong too. man, shikamaru pauses a time, formulating a plan while minato attacks at the same time then thinking a plan. its quite dangerous and puts a lot of risks. what if it failed? i think hes like naruto, coming nowhere but instead, he had plan beforehand.

  21. @ Kisu, ( You just can’t leave well enough alone)Shi never said Raikages speed is comparable to the 4th’s, he just said it increases his speed so stop lying. Are you saying Peins techniques impressed you more that Minato’s techniques? If you are then you are truly delusional, Minato’s techniques in this chapter are far above Peins.

    I don’t hate Pein, again he is one of my favorite characters, it’s just I like Minato more. His ideaology sucks, he wants (oops, I mean wanted, forgot he was dead) to destroy the world to gain peace or create a weapon that was capable of destroying the world if it was used enough. He is strong but I have no doubt in my mind that Minato would wipe the floor with him! Look, I’m talking about this again, damn you Kishi for getting me so hooked on the Manga!

  22. Raikage used Shushin no jutsu and Minato used a combination of that and space/time ninjutsu! I think Minato slows down time while performs shushin no jutsu!

  23. Alright, no compare the 2nd to the 4th. It’s honestly a joke. The 2nd lost to a bunch of losers. He had an unbeatable squad at that with him. From what I remember the could take out a hundred men without 5 min. going pass so you guys should rethink before your brain farts get loose.

  24. Alright, no one compare the 2nd to the 4th. It’s honestly a joke. The 2nd lost to a bunch of losers. He had an unbeatable squad at that with him. The 4th from what I remember could take out a hundred men without 5 min. going pass. So you guys should rethink before your brain farts get loose.

    ***

  25. internet is to slow to logg in properly …

    GREAT CHAPTER SO AMAZING. Great summary Bob

    Madara uses space time jutsu we learnt the secound uses space time jutsu… we know nothing about the 2nds past history, we know little about madara’s history. Madara has a face he wishes to hide….. pherhaps because its a known figure……
    common dont tell me its not totally ridiculous it does add up a bit.
    – sorry maddara theories, no one cares lol i know but still i ponder…–

    these seals are INSANE BTW
    he takes the kyubis attack and throws it else where

  26. @Yellowflash, I can post a link if you’d like 🙂

    And Pain’s moves are above the perception of mortals, that is in and of itself better than moving fast lol. The power to control who lives and who dies, what could be greater?

  27. @madzikage – hahahahaha, you kill me dog! Gonna finish reading comments then address your Minato blasphemy, lol!

  28. Okay, this chapter was pretty kickass, I mean the way Masked man just summoned the Kyuubi like he owned him. haha! Cool stuff. Additionally, minato sucking up that menacing ball, badass uber coolness! @yellowflash and others: there I said it (which I never denied) Minato is a badass.

    Now why I say Kage Buushin is ‘potentially’ better than FTG. Naruto can actually do exactly what Minato did by disguising himself as a kunai or any other object and doing exactly what Minato did (remember in pein battle).

    What I really want to know is the whole issue of (Masked man will not be able keep the summon for a long time). This impllies information that we never had before regarding summons. We knew that a summon required chakra to be summoned, but not to remain summoned. This means that Pein was an UBERBADASS considering ALL his summons (NB: he even summoned the other paths, not to mention those beasts), but it also means that the whole kyubbi thing just had to be contained until it was umm… ‘desummoned???’ [don’t know the word lol!] Hiruzen and his ANBU must have really showed poor form, but we’ll see.

    Additionally, I will say it again HOW THE HELL DOES MASKED MAN SURVIVE THE RASENGAN???? That move is really starting to piss me off, sometimes it can be a one hit kill, other times not (Consistency Kishi, consistency).

  29. Okay, this chapter was pretty kickass, I mean the way Masked man just summoned the Kyuubi like he owned him. haha! Cool stuff. Additionally, minato sucking up that menacing ball, badass uber coolness! @yellowflash and others: there I said it (which I never denied) Minato is a badass.

    Now why I say Kage Buushin is ‘potentially’ better than FTG. Naruto can actually do exactly what Minato did by disguising himself as a kunai or any other object and doing exactly what Minato did (remember in pein battle).

    What I really want to know is the whole issue of (Masked man will not be able keep the summon for a long time). This impllies information that we never had before regarding summons. We knew that a summon required chakra to be summoned, but not to remain summoned. This means that Pein was an UBERBADASS considering ALL his summons (NB: he even summoned the other paths, not to mention those beasts), but it also means that the whole kyubbi thing just had to be contained until it was umm… ‘desummoned???’ [don’t know the word lol!] Hiruzen and his ANBU must have really showed poor form, but we’ll see.

    Additionally, I will say it again HOW THE HELL DOES MASKED MAN SURVIVE THE RASENGAN???? That move is really starting to piss me off, sometimes it can be a one hit kill, other times not (Consistency Kishi, consistency). Tsk tsk Tsk

  30. Well this chapter sure did bring about some interesting revelations!
    @Tawuya: There is no Minato blasphemy, I have mad love for him (no homo)! I just believe that certain things could have been handled differently, but he seems to be delivering some pwnage… its a pity we all know the end of this battle hahaha!
    What I want to know is how Naruto retained the Uzumaki name but was not identified as being Kushina and Minato’s son. I mean the birth could of been hidden but the marriage, the living together, the pregnancy, (Kishi has some work to do to make sense out of all that).

  31. Okay, this chapter was pretty kickass, I mean the way Masked man just summoned the Kyuubi like he owned him. haha! Cool stuff. Additionally, minato sucking up that menacing ball, badass uber coolness! @yellowflash and others: there I said it (which I never denied) Minato is a badass.

    Now why I say Kage Buushin is ‘potentially’ better than FTG. Naruto can actually do exactly what Minato did by disguising himself as a kunai or any other object and doing exactly what Minato did (remember in pein battle).

    What I really want to know is the whole issue of (Masked man will not be able keep the summon for a long time). This implies information that we never had before regarding summons. We knew that a summon required chakra to be summoned, but not to remain summoned. This means that Pein was an UBERBADASS considering ALL his summons (NB: he even summoned the other paths, not to mention those beasts), but it also means that the whole kyubbi thing just had to be contained until it was umm… ‘desummoned???’ [don’t know the word lol!] Hiruzen and his ANBU must have really showed poor form, but we’ll see.

  32. @Madzikage – let’s do a bit of scenario analysis here:

    1) Minato decides to teleport away Kushina
    a) Madara notices wat he’s about to do and kills baby Naruto in front of both their eyes, Kushina loses it and anger triggers hulk-like release of Kyuubi possibly killing her in the process and you have a dead son & wife and an unknown villain with a demon fox on the loose.
    b) Madara doesnt notice wat minato is about to do and he manages to FTG away with Kushina. Let’s say in the unlikely event that she doesn’t wig out, at the fact they have just abandoned their child and releases the kyuubi in grief anyway, but remains calm Minato still has no idea how this person found them so he could possibly find them again and so you have Kushina panicky and unstable thus threat of demon fox release anyway and possibly a dead son as well.

    2) Minato goes Jack Bauer on everybody and aims for a head shot on Madara – at this point in time Madara is an unknown quantity to Minato and he still has to consider how an all out battle in confined quarters would be handled by Kushina.

    The main thing here, Madzikage, is that there is an emotional bond between the jinchuuruki and minato child’s child that Minato has probably taken into consideration. His wizzles seal is weak at the moment and any stress could aggravate that weakness. Naruto is focal point of that stress thus the best option is to remove Naruto from that situation thereby allow Kushina to concentrate on directing energy to strengthening seal. I think any other course of action would have caused seal to break anyway but at least this way he got to save his seed.

    Minato is a badass hokage!

  33. Example of Kishi’s poor character development (at times):
    Tobirama Senju:
    1. Greatest Water Jutsu manipulator ever.
    2. Wielded the Sword of the Thunder God
    3. Had space/time jutsu
    4. Could perform Edo Tensei
    5. Was considered the most powerful ninja of his time.
    6. Proficient Taijutsu user.
    HOWEVER (Kishi’s poor form):
    He gets killed by 20 elite Kumo nin.
    NB: He had both Hiruzen (who was strong enough to become the next kage) and Danzou (even though he was pretty gay at the time) with him, but he tells them to go, because the odds were stacked against them.
    HOW THE HELL WERE THE ODDS STACKED AGAINST THEM??? he could start floods where there was no water! And take out a couple of nin using his space/time jutsu and sacrifice them to use edo tensei…. really Kishi…. really?
    ANBU are Konoha’s elite nin, and unless kumo’s kinkaku are leagues ahead, i really can’t see ANY of the kage (including Tsunade) or even random Jounin or Naruto or Sasuke, being defeated by 20 ANBU.
    Now that’s a battle I want to see. At times it seems like Kishi just draws and writes without actually thinking about what he’s trying to feed us.

  34. @Tawuya: This was the basis of my argument in Chapter 501, but just for you I will reiterate my position (PLEASE NO NONE BUT TAWUYA RESPOND TO THIS I DO NOT WANT TO START THIS PARTICULAR ARGUMENT UP AGAIN):
    1. From Chapter 500, I posited four routes that he could take:
    a. Kill Naruto (but that would aggrivate Kushina.
    b. Attack the masked man (but that is impulsive as he does not know his techs).
    c. Try to save Naruto (but that would expose Kushina)
    d. Kill Kushina (this would kill the kyuubi-GOOD MOVE)
    2. In Chapter 501, Minato went with option c, so I said that while that is just the paternal thing to do, my issue was with the time wasting, and not planning for the battle:
    i. Leave Naruto in hiruzen’s office and inform hiruzen about the attack (but he goes to his safe house and wastes time talking to naruto and tucking him in).
    ii. When he rescues kushina, he tucks her in too and even puts on his jacket (all unnecessary precious seconds he could have used mobilising a squad to take on the upcoming battle).
    Instead, what we have is the Kyuubi being released and Hiruzen only knowing what’s going on when the kyuubi is in the village and all hell’s broken loose.
    Now with that I shall return to Chapter 502 discussions and lets talk about Tobirama!

  35. Tobirama gets killed by 20 Kinkaku ninja (i.e. Kumo’s version of ANBU). What kind of nonsense is that. Imagine any kage being killed off by ANBU. Especially one that according to what we know had the following:
    Sword of the Thunder God
    Edo Tensei
    Best Water manipulator ever
    Proficient Taijutsu
    Space/Time jutsu
    Kishi needs to think about the nonsense that he tries to feed us sometimes. Additionally, what the hell was the Kage doing on some random mission out of the village?

  36. Tobirama gets killed by 20 Kinkaku ninja (i.e. Kumo’s version of ANBU). What kind of nonsense is that. Imagine any kage being killed off by ANBU. Especially one that according to what we know had the following:
    -Sword of the Thunder God
    -Edo Tensei
    -Best Water manipulator ever
    -Proficient Taijutsu
    -Space/Time jutsu
    ****ERGO, BADASS****
    Kishi needs to think about the nonsense that he tries to feed us sometimes. Additionally, what the hell was the Kage doing on some random mission out of the village?

  37. @Tawuya: This was the basis of my previous chapter discussions, but just for you I will reiterate my position (PLEASE NO NONE BUT TAWUYA RESPOND TO THIS I DO NOT WANT TO START THIS PARTICULAR ARGUMENT UP AGAIN):
    1. From Chapter 500, I posited four routes that he could take:
    a. Kill Naruto (but that would aggrivate Kushina.
    b. Attack the masked man (but that is impulsive as he does not know his techs).
    c. Try to save Naruto (but that would expose Kushina)
    d. Kill Kushina (this would kill the kyuubi-GOOD MOVE)
    2. In Chapter 501, Minato went with option c, so I said that while that is just the paternal thing to do, my issue was with the time wasting, and not planning for the battle:
    i. Leave Naruto in hiruzen’s office and inform hiruzen about the attack (but he goes to his safe house and wastes time talking to naruto and tucking him in).
    ii. When he rescues kushina, he tucks her in too and even puts on his jacket (all unnecessary precious seconds he could have used mobilising a squad to take on the upcoming battle).
    Instead, what we have is the Kyuubi being released and Hiruzen only knowing what’s going on when the kyuubi is in the village and all hell’s broken loose.

  38. @ Kisu, alright post the link, if you are right, I’ll admit I was wrong what else can I do but I don’t remember him saying anything about the fourth!

  39. @ Madzikage – lol, dude it’s the classic “there’s always time to kiss the rescued girl and tell her you love her and stare deeply into her eyes” before you go deal with the bad guy when Minato puts on his jacket, tucks in baby naruto and gives his shorty a blanket.

    Option (d) would be tricky because it would go against everything that he as a character is and the village would probably be like “wtf…???” when he was made hokage they knew the sort of person he was i.e. the kind of person who probably defied village orders when he went to go follow a trail red hair. Watch Batman – Under the Red Hood for maybe even more clarity as to why he would not kill his own wife even for what MIGHT HAVE been the good of the village.

    On the point of kill KushinaKillKyuubi maybe I’m in the dark about this but the only proof we have of that is when Kyuubi gives Naruto after the threat of “if i die, you die too” which to me is not conclusive. I mean that big shell fish thing that captured by Tobi and Deidara didnt have a (human?) host (but was mindless….). Maybe upon death tailed beast immediately disperse and reform somewhere randomly. Plus if it were the case that beasts died with hosts are you telling me that in AAALLLLL the time that’s passed since the Sage split no hosts have ever been killed?! Unlikely. But lo and behold we still have 9 beasts in existence

  40. someone said that it has to do with the sharringan why the felt the 9tails but the 3rd also did….ima go with the idea that strong shinobi can sence it………..THE FOURTH IS DA BEST!!!!!

  41. I agree Tawuya. Tailed beast can´t be killed if they can Sage or First just kill them and there will be no problems instead of this Sage just splitted Jubi into 9 beast and First gave them to other village. I think in case that jinchuriki die beast is unsealed and can do anything what it want. Otherwise there will be more beast killed by First or others.

    So it´s rly stupid to think that Minato could kill Kushina that only unsealed kyubi. Also right Hokage need to try save EVERYONE in village. All hokages are just humans, but in that way Third was worst than Fourth he let Oro escaped and he knew he was dangerous.

    Also about Second hokage killed just by 20 Anbu. We don´t know what excatly happened with them could be somone uber strong.

  42. to my last comment btw: Danzo, who was kage lvl ninja was killed by Genin :D, so ninja ranks don´t include power of each shinobi also their leadership abbilities etc. Maybe, there were Tobi again when he is against Leaf village. We don´t know, so don´t make quick deccisions

  43. ya ya ya, i know it’s a nice battle, i like it myself. but, sorry, i still think the epic battle of orochimaru vs sarutobi was the best so far, then naruto vs sasuke comes second… maybe cuz it was longer and more meaningful? and non of the them were taken down easily as it is with minato vs tobi.

    now we KNOW for a fact that the masked man is in fact the current tobi, the guy who claims to be madara. and this IS quite important, more than this battle itself. i know we’ve all been waiting to see what happened 16 years ago (naruto mean time) but still, i think there are facts that should be known at this time, which is quite convenient for naruto/kakashi/tsunade to know at the time being. i’m sure none of those three know anything about those facts. the last one to know who died recently was probably danzo. and maybe the other 2 elders? shady fuckers if u ask me, i don’t think they’ll speak to anyone about those facts, but it’s good kushina spilled the beans, ESPECIALLY AT THIS TIME.

    i can’t help but say there’s more to itachi (my favorite character so far) and his “family” than we really think there is. especially after reading this chapter. Tobi LIED to sasuke about summoning the kyuubi, THAT’s A FACT. i thought he didn’t need to hide the truth of anything up until now, BUT, he did lie. and we have NO idea what also he lied about. i can’t trust what he said, and i think there’s more to him and his plans than he already said or hinted. i myself am back to square one about who this person is or what he’s after. i found it VERY interesting how he said he’s doing what he’s doing for fun and also for war AND peace. everyone of those villains spoke of peace. i guess he has his own views of peace just like pain, but on a completely different rhetorical view? reminds me of code geass where Zero was the villain who made all the world HATE him to become the symbol of hatred to “unite” the world… maybe i’m thinking too deeply into this…

    im not sure if tobi knows who naruto really is. he probably hasn’t realized he’s minato’s son. or maybe he does, since he IS the kyuubi’s host ATM. but he’s shown quite a lot of interest in our orange hero, and it’s a fact that he wants both him and sasuke to reach more lengths of strength, for one reason or more only he knows about ATM.

  44. hey guys very heated debate! Well minato has not sure his full array of jutsu’s just yet! not exactly sure wat the FTG mark two is just yet! but sounds good 🙂

    Minato and tsunade are equally good hokages in there own rights!

  45. Lilmoe if you see in naruto 502, there is a picture where Madara makes a summoning seal! so it looks like madara summons kyubi right to the village from hidden area where they where!

  46. Yay, Bob’s back!
    “At the beginning in the scene where Itachi is holding Sasuke: notice that both Itachi and Sasuke sense a change in the chakra around them even before the Kyuubi is summoned into Konoha; Kakashi notices this too but likely not to the same degree. This chakra sensitivity is obviously the first sign of a future powerful shinobi.”
    Or maybe it’s ’cause they all have sharingan (even though not active in Sasuke yet). Like I said last time – sharingans are very much linked to the Kyuubi.

  47. DAMN IT!! i’m always so late to these conversations anymore. maybe i should try waking up earlier, since i think most of u guys might b on a completely different schedule

  48. Oh my gawsh! I am so involved this week!

    First, I still don’t quite understand the FTG Level 2, except that it seems like Minato’s warping and speed capabilities are boosted slightly, as he was able to out-speed Madara’s Phasing Technique. I don’t understand the background, but that’s what I get from it at least.

    Second, GO MINATO OMG! Minato is so cool in this chapter, which is why he is my second favorite character! Woo hoo! He is just so intelligent and a quick thinker and amazing leader, he just needs to pop out of the grave and give Naruto some tips for when he becomes Hokage/Sannin/Whatever! W00P

    Third, can’t wait for next week. I wanna see what Madara and the Kyuubi pull of after Minato took dat…uh…fish down >_> So, we know now that he has Rasengan actually perfected and what he couldn’t perfect before he died was imputing all of the elemental releases into it to create one…awesome Rasengan.

    Fourth: MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINAAAAAAAAAAAAAATOOOOOOOOOOOOO PWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNSSS EPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTT >_<

  49. so we still don’t really know who madara/tobi is yet??? minato only said that the only person he knew to be able to do those things was madara. he then asked the masked man if he was madara uchiha, says it can’t be cos he would be too old and then says it doesn’t matter who you are… it still leaves it open to speculation. i wonder when we will find out precisely who is behind that mask???

  50. @Bob, Madara ends up going all Darth Vader on Sasuke lol That would make me laugh.

  51. @Mattmaru

    yea, that’s what i said. he DID summon him, he DID steal him, AND he lied to sasuke when he said that he had nothing to do with it.

    @everyone else…
    and yea… i know everyone’s just in love with minato… but don’t forget, he learned a LOT of his sealing and other kinds of techniques from his wife. he refined them and made them his own. don’t get me wrong… minato IS great, i like him bigtime, he’s really strong, and just like jeraya said: he’s very kind, but with nerves of steal in battle.

    but still, i like itachi better. he was all alone from the start. he made a lot of decisions that i don’t think minato would have done, and he was VERY VERY VERY strong, and kept madara under check big time. it’s only when he died that madara was brave enough to go on with his plans. sasuke was and still is no match for itachi. not to mention how smart and brilliant itachi is.

    i wonder why itachi didn’t have as much enthusiasm from u guys like minato did… oh well.

    there still more to this epic story. would love to see what danzo’s involvement was at the time.

    don’t forget guys. there’s one more guy who will appear in naruto’s psych. yup, u guessed right, it’s my man ITACHI. can’t wait when that happens!!!!

  52. @lilmoe

    itachi is second only to minato lol

  53. Itachi was basses and personally he is my favorite. But I think its the fact that he was so cold and calculating that people don’t get excited not to mentioned his fighting style is potent but slightly unexciting. Minato on the other hand is a wise cracking smooth fighting powerful and quick ninja who’s style is exciting and effective. Also although we think this is Where he learned his seals and jutsus its not confirmed that he learns it from kushina.
    Need a minato gaiden nowwwwwwwwwwww

  54. If we compare Itachi and minato we have to compare both in the same time line so I guess Minato was stronger since he was the actual hokage and not Itachi. I guess Minato would be a lot stronger if he had survived the kuuybi battle.

    For one who created rasengan and this demon devil jutsu (dont know the name) is more than capable to create more powerfull jutsus if he had the time.

    Some people say that Minato was older than Itachi in this time but I am still believe if they had the same age minato would beat Itachi, but it would be a close fight

    But all in all they were both heros of konoha in the one or another way.

    PS: Itachi and Minato are both my favorites

  55. i didn’t say minato learned all his jutsus from kushina… i said he learned a lot from her (and the uzumaki clan). he had support and was very popular. i wasn’t implying who is stronger… it’s not my style to favor the “strongest”…

    “strong enough”, on the other hand, sounds more appealing to me. and was itachi strong enough to overcome the hardships he had in life? you bet. we’re in the dark when it comes to minato’s life challenges except for this very one, but i’d say itachi’s hardships were of greater sorrow, and it’s a fact that he endured all of them while staying alive. he CHOSE to die when he didn’t have to, for his brother’s sake. it’s understandable (and very common) when a parent die’s for his/her child’s sake, but those who do for their siblings are far sacrificial if u ask me.

    on the other hand, itachi chose to stay in the shadows. an unknown hero. he was the resemblance of sacrifice. i couldn’t describe him better than how madara did. there were only 4 times where i almost cried reading this manga

    1) the epic battle between naruto and sasuke (first part of the series), when naruto said he looked up to sasuke etc etc.. the whole conversation was awesome.

    2) when sasuke found out about itachi’s reality and he touched sasuke saying “sorry sasuke there wont be another time”

    3) when jeraya died and thought about naruto in the process and found out he was the child of prophecy, saying he would never give up.

    4) when hinato ran to naruto’s rescue and told him she wont back off, because that’s her way of the ninja (quoting him)

    i wasn’t surprised that minato sacrificed his life for his family and village’s sake. everyone would know he was a hero. he did it out of obligation as a parent and as a leader. people would remember him and smile or feel proud.

    and boy is it NOT the same with itachi, for those who know the truth, they would remember him knowing he was the REAL hero who managed to save the WORLD from madara. i know this because i believe he will have a SUPER important role in the future (through naruto). for those who know the truth about him, they would remember him and cry 😦

    i love a hero who makes me cry more than a hero who makes me cliche’dly smile or get excited. it’s beautifully different.

  56. Naruto on the other hand is different from his father. those who love him don’t only love him because he’s strong, or smart or because he saved the village. they love him from the bottom of their hearts because he EARNED it.

    naruto is a better character than his dad, i think. it’s true that he doesn’t compare in normal strength and ability to his father. but he has worked hard for the sake of not only the village, but also for the world. i wonder if the war his father stopped by rendering konoha victorious would have ended the same way if the current naruto took place in it. i wonder if a war that naruto would end would leave bitterness the same way the earlier war did. how man people would risk their lives for the leaders of other countries/villages? naruto did that for the sand country. and i’m sure he’d do the same for others as well.

    his dad was famous and loved, but only in konoha. on the contrary, i wounder how many villages and countries would aid naruto if he becomes a leader, how many would have faith in him and give him their all.

    my best characters
    1) itachi – for self sacrifice and brotherly love.
    2) naruto – for hard work, uniting the hearts of nations, and never giving up.

  57. I didn’t say this on the last post, but Minato is badass lol. Also, I wanted to bring up my last idea. I don’t know if its just different in the anime than in the manga but, anyways I just wanted to point out that Minato’s head looked totally different then than it did back when he was Hokage.

    Minato’s Head on the monument when he was Hokage(manga):
    http://www.mangastream.com/read/naruto/18388702/8

    Minato’s Head on the monument currently(anime):

    Is it just me, or does Minato’s face look totally different?? I don’t know if its just the anime or something else. If it isn’t just the anime,then I think the face was either destroyed in this battle, or after Minato’s death, the Third Hokage redid the statue to cover up Minato’s identity/relation to Naruto. I also think that it is seeming less likely that Tobi is Madara. I mean, for Minato to even ask Tobi if he was Madara, he must of had some semblance of what Madara looked like, maybe like an old picture or something or he must have used the statue at the Valley of End as some sort of reference. So, when he didn’t recognize Madara, I think that kind of made it less likely that it is Madara. I’m not saying that there’s no possibility that Tobi is Madara, I just think it is less likely in my eyes. Also, I do think that it is very suspicious that Itachi and Sasuke’s parents were away. What parent would leave their newborn baby with their young son? And they just happened to be away a little while before Madara and the Kyuubi attacked Konoha, it seems a little more than coincidental to me.

  58. All 9 tailed beast were at one time inside the sage of the six paths. Could the Kyuubi have something to do withe the sage of the six paths’ eyes? I think it was stated that one son inherited the eyes and the other the body. Maybe that’s why the Kyuubi was so easily influenced by the Sharingan.

  59. No, Actually all the tailed beasts were derived from the Ten-Tailed beast, the Juubi. The Sage of the Six Paths had defeated and became the jinchuriki of the Juubi. When The Sage of the Six Paths was on his death bed, he took out the Juubi and divided its Chakra into 9 parts (The 9 Bijuu). The sage then sent the body of the Juubi into the sky and used Chibaku Tensei to (probably) encase the Juubi in the moon, making it the Juubi’s prison. And actually it never said the his sons inherited his eyes and body, it just said “Two boys” as seen here:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/462/12/
    So, we don’t even know if they are his sons or not, people just assume that they are.

  60. @Yellowflash http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page003.html

    I’m not gonna debate Pain vs Minato until this little flashback is over 🙂

    @Tawuya, dude, Madzi si right 😀

  61. the story of the ten tailed beast was told by tobi… he’s lied before about the kyuubi incident. so, considering the story he told about the juubi to be a fact isn’t wise…

    i’m suspicious of everything he said so far. i guess only kabuto knows what’s up

  62. I say Wow!!! i just finished reading the manga and it blow me away how minato work this guy out as a matter of fact it blows me way how he work the ninetailed and the mask man…. this guy is fighting and thingking at the same time…. lol and that move where he teleport behind madara thats insane i have to look at it twice tree times… its trully a fetting to call him the greatest hokage on hes time

  63. @Moe: I’m not saying that everything Tobi has said is truth, but I really don’t think Tobi had any reason to lie about that story. He lied about the Kyuubi’s attack because one, it would incriminate himself and he doesn’t want Sasuke to know about it. Second, there was a huge cover up about it so if Sasuke went spouting it out, people would not only go after Sasuke, but they would definitely be shocked that the Leaf covered it up. Third, I mean really, why wouldn’t he lie about it? It is basically signing his death warrant and reveal his identity. He has NO reason to lie about that story at all. So why lie?

  64. umm yeah did anyone else notice the part where minato said that the masked man try to send minato into another dimension lol doesnt kakashi do that with his sharingan as well hmmm idk if anyone posted something about this i didnt read anything just wanted to say something about it

  65. @Biju, are we still on this? The reason there are still 9 biju is quite simple. The people extract these beasts when the Jinchuriki is about to die. That’s the reason they brought in Kushina when Mito was about to die, so the Kyubi wouldnt die with her. Now as for the Sage:
    1. He was on his deathbed.
    2. He knew when he died the most powerful Biju would break the VERY FIRST seal
    3. He used a massive amount of chakra (obviously his OWN chakra since at that point he removed the Jubi from himself) to seal the Juubi’s body in the moon and blast it into space. Then when he was about to die he split the Juubi’s power into 9 pieces and gave his sons his power.

    Isnt all that too much for one person? He was almost dead, obviously he didn’t have anything left to kill the Biju. His sons could have finished the job, but people are greedy bastards. That’s the same reason Hashirama kept the Biju around instead of killing them (and we know Biju can at the very least be beaten to near death, just ask the Sanbi after Deidara got through with it).

    “I think in case that jinchuriki die beast is unsealed and can do anything what it want. ” Key words there are “I think”. We KNOW when a Jinchuriki dies, the Biju dies, just ask the Kyubi when Kabuto nearly killed Naruto and when Jiraiya threw Naruto off a cliff. Also, please answer this rather simple question. If killing the Jinchuriki releases the Biju, why would the Biju protect the Jinchurikis if all they want to be is released? Why would the Shukaku protect Gaara with the Sand Shield and even stop Gaara from killing himself? Why would the Kyubi heal Naruto’s injuries and give him chakra?

    “I mean that big shell fish thing that captured by Tobi and Deidara didnt have a (human?) host (but was mindless….). Maybe upon death tailed beast immediately disperse and reform somewhere randomly.”
    I pose the very same questions I posed to LordErcan above. Also, the Giant Shellfish thing, aka, the Sanbi, was released from Yagura (the same 4th Mizukage that was implied to have been under Shisui’s hypnosis)

  66. @kisu see thats what makes this tobi story a little confusing… if the sage did this crap on his death bed y not just do it while he was in his prime??? why hold on to it and than split the power up into 9 biju before he dies? and if he did in fact split up the power what he just scattered the nine beasts to the wind? doesnt make as much sense as it first did.

  67. @lilmoe…..that was beautiful dude :'(. Yep Itachi was a great character, but the reason people don’t cheer for him is because people like heroes. People like cheering for the “good guy”, no matter how impressive an antagonist is. I however, hate most good guys because they are so predictable…so clichéd. Its often said a good bad guy is what sells a story. Just look at “The Dark Knight”, had it not been for Heath Ledger’s portrayal of The Joker, the movie would have been a complete flop.

    I liked Nagato simply because he embodies sacrifice, sacrifice to a fault. His body shows his determination in its emaciated form, which to me, wasn’t a disappointment (ss many were expecting Nagato to look like a Bishounen). Then his ideology was something none of us expected as we all thought he was the clichéd “Take over the world villain”, another point for why I liked this character. Then even though he was in a position to kill Naruto when he confronted him, he instead chose to talk and accepted that someone had a better way to achieve peace than him, showing he wasnt prideful or arrogant. Then instead of simply joining forces and calling it a day, he atoned for the wrongs he had done (according to his old ideology which Naruto had re-taught him) at the cost of his own life, showing he didn’t fear death. He showed he feared a world with endless war more than he cared for his life. Then there’s the fact that he could blow shit up!

    I like Zabuza because he was the only real ninja of this series (y’know, he had the actual STEALTH ninjas were praised for and killed silently through decapitation). In a filler arc, Kakashi stops a ninja who was doing sneak attacks and actually said “Sneak attacks aren’t the ninja way” lmao. I like Kisame because he’s chaos on feet and because he fights so savagely, and is basically unpredictable as we still dont know much about his past or what makes him tick.

    Just to add, Itachi was 21 when he died (18 in Part 1 when he confronted Kakashi, Asuma and Kurenia), Minato was clearly in his late 20s-early 30s when he fought. So Itachi possessed MORE potential than Minato as they are comparable with this age gap between them.

  68. @token, he could have split them up and had them, but couldnt finish them off and left them to his sons to kill. But humans are greedy a-holes

  69. @Token, oh I just figured it out. Remember the condition Kushina was in after the Kyubi got ripped out of her? I theorize he WAS healthy, but getting old, before he forced the Jubi out of himself, but the act of removing it sealed his fate, plus the power it took to seal and fire it off into space.

  70. “I like Zabuza because he was the only real ninja of this series”

    if going by your standards id have to say that itachi was the only real ninja, plus zabuza changed at the end

  71. @ Kisuzachi

    Minato was 24 years old when he fought Kyubi. He had become Hokage one year earlier, after the end of the War, when Itachi was 4 years old; in current chapters he is 5 years old and Kakashi is 14. I have posted the whole calculation and also Nagato’s age when he died, on an older post.

  72. @Wo Ai Ni; Um, Kakashi is WAY older than 14, at least 19, in that chapter. I mean, he is TALL there

  73. @ Bob

    “I was sure Madara would need at least a Mangekyou Sharigan to control something as powerful as the Kyuubi, but this chapter and last clearly show he is using only a normal Sharingan. Is the Kyuubi that susceptible to genjutsu / dojutsu or is something more happening here?”

    i double checked this and he does use his Mangekyou! Check out the small panel of Tobi here when he unleashes the Fox!
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/502/04-05/

    it’s not a Mangekyou that we’ve seen before, I checked the currently known ones on naruto wikia. The 3 tomoes that makeup the regular sharingon are thickened and extended to the edge of the eye in a curve, and the ring around the pupil is much thicker (at about the same wide as each of the 3 curved extentions). What shape does that make? a spiral vaguely in the shape of a whirlpool spinning COUNTER CLOCKWISE….the exact same shape of which is present on our dear Tobi’s mask.

  74. hmm…well i agree that Tobi does seem to be doing this in order to set up the Uchiha clan to make it seem like they were behind the attack.

    Minato is putting on quite the performance and we’re definitely not done yet…but it’s possible he didn’t do any permanent damage to Tobi seems to have some fake body parts anyway. We’ll see next chapter. If Tobi doesn’t sustain any serious real damage then we know that body of his really is a shell, and then maybe it really is Madara’s spirit inhabiting it.

    Since Kakashi had his headband over his eye, it still stands that it could be Obito’s body….especially given the fact that the body does look much younger than the current Tobi in the present.

  75. Ok. So , i kinda guess. I got 2 theories. :
    1st one : Maybe Tobi is Madara, but Madara is using a different body, maybe Obito’s Body. Or what if , Madara is using the Second’s body. Remember the name of the Second was Tobiramu – TOBI-RAMU.. and thats why he can use the space-time jutsu.

    2nd one: Tobi IS madara. Who else could have so much power?

    Ahh and something else. Maybe it is Fugaku.. But fugaku is dead… but in the Narutoverse , you never know. And kisu, keep this in mind: Its ok to have someone as your favorite, and of course you will have your reason, but dont hate on the other characters, I have and idea for you, MAKE YOUR OWN MANGA. with all the characters being, emotionless ninjas, killing machines..

  76. “I dont think anyone implied Minato was weak lol. “Flee on sight”
    Well, that’s an understandable point of view of Minato. The guy does spam teleport jutsu like crazy to the point where it’s like a knee jerk reaction. But to his defense, we have to remember that a ninja doesn’t win battles by rushing his opponent head on. Minato is only using what his training has taught him: confuse and misdirect the enemy and attack from where he least expects it. We can call it a cowardly tactic, but couldn’t the same be said about Itachi using genjutsu to paralyze his opponents without giving them a fighting chance or Pein using bodies to fight for him while he remains hidden in safety? The name of the game is not about fighting fair but having that extra edge over your opponent, because you know he’d do the same to you in a heartbeat if he had the advantage.

  77. @Shinobikaze I think I found a good candidate for your Tobi ‘hidden in plain site’ character.

    Aoba Yamashiro
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/327/12/

    -uses black crows similar to itachi..not sure if that was a genjutsu or not though.
    -appearance wise he’s pretty similar and he always wears goggles/glasses and he’s in the right age-range
    -is a konoha shinobi so he’s know how to infiltrate everything
    -‘inadvertently’ told sasuke that itachi was in konoha and after naruto
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/144/12/
    -accompanies Guy off the boat where both Naruto and Bee currently are. So maybe that’s how they’ll eventually capture Bee?

    just throwing it out there. I still believe in the Obito’s body theory but this guy shows a little potential.

  78. @kisu.

    thanks. don’t get me wrong. i like nagato bigtime. i never disliked him as a villain. if u go back to the comments when nagato faced naruto for the first time, i was the ONLY one expressing my respect to his character at start. my favorite quote of his was “do you feel pain now? but my pain is greater”. it was incredible how he saw truths, but really bad how he dealt with his own pain. let me tell you why i never vouched for him as my favorite.

    1) nagato was naive. he was till his last moment. he was easily influenced and desperate for a solution to the extent of getting that crazy idea of wiping out a good portion of the world for the sake of temporary intervals of peace.

    2) although his ideals were very close to the truth, he himself chose what i would call the easy way out. he was blinded by his pain and sorrows to the extent of forgetting what he personally said to his master; “if there’s a way for peace i will find it, i will never give up”… naruto’s ideas of peace is what i would call the hard way out.

    3) he lacked (or forgot) the essential path of true peace. i couldn’t have said it better than tsunade when she held the other 2 elders with her arms when she called for naruto to come back from toad mount; she said: “do you know what the previous hokages had that both of you don’t?… FAITH”. and that’s what nagato lacked at a essential part of his life, and by the powers that be (and naruto’s help) he was reminded that he needs to have faith. if he had faith and never lost it in the first place, he would have played a better role in the road to peace. he never had faith in people, he wanted to use their fear for those intervals of peace. that was his miscalculation. humans adapt, and his idea might work the first time, but no one knows if it will the next time, things might backfire and get worse. worse case scenario would be the end of the world… same ideology of a nuclear war, where there’s a bunch of bad guys who have a lot of power and don’t give a monkey’s ass who gets killed in the process. he didn’t have faith in the people from the first place, and if u never did, u can’t have faith that they will follow your plan, lol.

    truth be told, he has given naruto a massive slap in the face, and a very important reality check. not only was he changed by naruto, but naruto was greatly changed by him. he played a role ti make the main character of this story a stronger person in will, with a better understanding of life and hate. thanks to him, naruto now knows what revenge is, and how hard it is to forgive. but forgiving people isn’t impossible, and naruto has proved that true.

    on the other hand. kushina, minato, tsunade, kakashi, jeraya, sarutobi, and ITACHI had faith, and never lost hope. they were willing to pass down their hopes to the next generation because they had FAITH. nagato was trying to do everything before he died, until he met naruto.

    a true hero is a person who forces people (in a good way) to have faith in him/her. not the strongest, not the smartest, not the one with most pain, but the one who people have faith in.

    did u count how many times i wrote the word “faith”? loool

    no more, me going to dream land. goodnight

  79. @ lugia12341

    had to answer before going to sleep, lol

    it’s hard to say what reason does he have to lie… because we don’t know his intentions from the first place…

    the moon eye plan
    the juubi
    the kuubi
    sasuke
    naruto
    world war 3

    these are all on his agenda. spreading lies and false truths to confuse his enemies makes perfect sense.

    i’m not saying the story behind the juubi is 100% incorrect. i’m just saying it might be a lie OR not 100% true!

    remember, he’s a person who gives some of the truth, not all of it. itachi’s story is part of what he said. but it was confirmed by danzo, that’s why i think it’s true.

  80. @ NarurulerSasuke

    Well, it’s just a mistake, one year only has passed since the events of Kakashi Gaiden, that happened at the end of the War. Remember also the age of Itachi, he was 5 years old when Sasuke was born and he had witnessed the end of the War when he was 4, thus only one year ago.

    I don’t know if you want me to post it again. It’s a whole calculation based on Jiraiya’s and Kakashi’s timetable, that’s why I don’t want to rant again, but I can assure you it’s correct, maybe with only +/-1 year variation.

  81. @ Kisu, that’s a whole different translation from the other sites that I’ve read from so it could be true and it couldn’t, let’s just call it a draw.

    @ Bob, again you are totally right, “Flee on Sight”.

    That I know of, we haven’t heard any other ninja as feared as Minato, especially Pein! LOL

    But then again who would be afraid of someone as weak minded as that!

  82. Maybe, Kishi didn’t want to draw his MS or EMS to give away his identity just yet. If that’s the case he could be using MS or EMS, I don’t know, maybe I’m just reading too much into it.LOL

  83. @Kizu
    idk but all of a sudden pein reminds me of the villian “pinhead” from hellraiser, i think pinhead is a cool character just like pain, a real badass, an Kisu hopefully U appreciate this clip as much as i do. lol. pain spot on if i say so myself, he lectures before he kills. hahaha

  84. why does the hole video appear an not just the link…that is BS.

  85. you took the embed link probably

  86. Oh, how I wish Kishi just do a spin off so we can se Minato kick Peins red-headed ass! Hey maybe Pein and Kushina are related, I mean they both have red hair!LOL

    Hey maybe me and Kisu can do a fictional battle on Shannaro2, Minato vs. Pein! It probable won’t work because neither one of us would let either one of them win! LOL

  87. Man i feel crushed. I just found out ICarly isnt as innocent as it seems. They get copious amounts of crap past the radar. So much for innocence http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Radar/ICarly

    @lilmoe, yeah I remember your twelve paragraph long comments from last year in the Pain invasion, and, truth be told, those comments are one of the reasons I actually began caring a bout Pain’s character lol.

    All the faults you listed are also things I admired about Pain. The fact that he wanted peace so badly he went to such extreme lengths at the cost of his body. I liked that he was the only member of Akatsuki that actually CARED when one of the subordinates died (except his comment about Tobi being replaceable lol).

    His naivety stems from his suckish life, the fact that he chose Yahiko’s “eye for an eye” ideology and made it his own to carry out his friend’s….his brother’s dream. He basically lived for Yahiko after he died. He became the god Yahiko wanted to be and gave the world the pain of understanding Yahiko wanted.

    I like that he doesn’t have faith in most people. Its more believable that way because of all the times people have let him down in life. From Jiraiya leaving them, to Hanzo betraying their agreement and causing Yahiko’s death. How can anyone have faith after going through all that, and being powerless to do a thing about it. This is where he matured, where he realized his “answer was useless”, where Nagato died and Pain was born. Nagato isnt the traditional hero, nor is he an antihero, nor a tragic hero like Itachi, he’s more akin to a tragic figure (not hero). Having good intentions corrupted by the dark world he lived in, though the answer he came up with seems more suitable in a world of ninjas though. Well I better shut up now or I’ll be going for at least 3 more paragraphs lol.

    @Naru, its actually pretty basic math. In the current timeline, 16 years after the Kyubi’s attack, Kakashi is 30, so 16 years ago he’d be…..14.

    @Woi Ai Ni, my point though was that Itachi was younger than Minato and was dying when he fought Sasuke and showed off so much skill. And becuz I was replying to this comment:

    “If we compare Itachi and minato we have to compare both in the same time line so I guess Minato was stronger since he was the actual hokage and not Itachi. I guess Minato would be a lot stronger if he had survived the kuuybi battle.”

    Had Itachi lived equally as long as Minato he would have far outclassed him as he is comparable to Minato while being 3 years younger at the points of their deaths.

    @ftw, I define a real ninja as someone that fights in the shadows, executes without flashy attacks, stealthy and never shows mercy on a mission. That defines Zabuza. Itachi showed mercy when he didnt kill Sasugay. Plus all of his Ninjutsu can be seen as easily as Naruto’s orange jumpsuit lol

    @Cap’n Obvious, I hated that movie the first time i watched it lol. The actors were over-acting.

    @Yellowflash, I wont say I’m right, or that you’re right, but this is a more trusted translation than Sleppyfans’, which onemanga uses.

    @Bob, you misunderstood what I meant by “I dont think anyone implied Minato was weak lol. “Flee on sight”. I meant that no one underestimates Minato because he’s powerful enough for his enemies to warn their ninjas to flee on sight.

  88. @Wo Ai Ni: Yeah, you’re correct. Only problem with the Itachi thing (even though every part of that makes sense) is that when looking at him there, he looks much more mature than a messily age of 5

  89. @yellowflash2
    That sounds like a decent idea. You might even make a poll out of it and figure who do people think would win through the process of votes, that or let someone who is mostly impartial decide, lets say for example Bob.

  90. @uchiha gaiden:
    i double checked this and he does use his Mangekyou! Check out the small panel of Tobi here when he unleashes the Fox!
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/502/04-05/

    That’s just a regular three tomoed Sharingan, NOT a Mangekyou. Compare with Sasugay’s here:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/463/02/

  91. @Captain Obvious
    Never seen that movie, but that does fit Pain or Nagato’s approach, psychological torment then attack, and the piercings or whatever they are, further illustrate “Pain”. 😉

  92. @Pain vs Yellowflash, I say let it hang out until a month after this flashback is done. Right now everyone is high on Minato despite him not doing anything other ninja havent done before. He hit Tobi, so did Fuu and Torune, he foiled the Kyubi’s blast, so did Naruto. After a month it would be best to continue this.

  93. OH MY GOD watch shippuden 167. Now i remember why i ever watched the show

  94. @Kisu: Wow! That IS the Mangekyo! 😀

  95. @Naru, huh?

  96. @John, nah. Nagato kills you THEN he goes into his monologue. He only talks when some says something related to the word “pain” >_>

  97. What? No mention of the Second’s space time jutsu? I wonder what it was like. The second being a master of water, a unclean resurrection user and a mediocre space-time jutsu user makes him a pretty interesting character worthy of a spin off.

    A Minato spin off wouldn’t be very interesting because the best part would be this battle. The only thing we don’t know is the details on how he learned his techniques, with the exception of the fox’s seal.

    I wonder if there are more Madara’s and the Mask is like Konoha/Senju’s Anbu Cat Masks. Like a special Mask for high ranking special ops Uchiha. So the Current Madara isn’t the same as the one that got owned by Minato.

    And Sasuke’s Dad couldn’t be Madara because this Madara is going to die (no facts… just prediction, which is subject to change because what was left of Madara’s body could have escaped and this is why his current body bares more of a resemblance to some sort of patchwork quilt).

  98. I think Sasuke’s show of control over the Kyuubi in their meeting in Naruto at the beginning of Shippuuden is testament that you don’t need any sharingan upgrade to control the fox.

  99. I’d hate to spam but I didn’t notice anyone saying anything about all the extra fingers the Yellow flash had in the first panel above when he says “not on my watch”. I think Kishi used that to show us how fast his hand signs were and that the flying thunder God doesn’t take just one.

  100. @Kisu
    I haven’t seen that movie, but from what I have seen in youtube, the “Pinhead” character has some pretty cool monologue, that is intriguing to a degree, instilling despair into his victim while mocking them. In one particular seen, he has this person pierced with hooks and is mocking the pain he is feeling telling him that his “Pain will be legendary even in hell”. I don’t know about you, but to a degree it reminded me of when Pain had Naruto pinned and proceeded to instill doubt in him, questioning his so called “Peace” and the “Pain” Naruto had felt up until that point. Oh I can also picture your other scenario Nagato/Pain killing someone and then doing his monologue. That is what is referred to as an “epic win”. LOL 🙂

  101. @John, well the only smart thing for a bad guy to do when the hero says “Before you kill me, just tell me what’s your plan”, is to shoot that hero….multiple times…and then when that hero is dead they can go into the villainous monologue if they really cant resist doing it, known in some circles as a “Hannibal Lecture”

  102. ok so i am a fan of naruto, minato and itachi. but itachi, slightly wins over the other two, there are more secrets to itachi which makes him slightly more compelling. he is important to the story line in a way we are not aware of yet.

    they say that your eyes are the window to your soul. madara has a lot of the uchiha clans souls. there are so many possibilities??? i can’t wait until we know for certain what is really going on. 😀

  103. @Kisu: The Mangekyo you said IS right…>_< Never would have noticed it mahself 😀

  104. “he does use his Mangekyou”: How is that a mangekyo? Don’t you guys remember the “does danzo have a MS” debate? sometimes the scans just come in thicker/lighter. it still retains the Sharingan shape and looks nothing like the MS owned by Madara, his brother, Sasuke, Itachi, or Kakashi, where the shape shifts dramatically into something else.

    I think Pein vs. Minato should be put to a vote, I’m tired of so many Minato vs. Pein debates that I can’t see the analysis of the chapter (I think that we should add to Da Rules that anyone vs. anyone debates more than ten posts long need to be submited via blog or dropped since while they are fun timewasters, they hinder other discusions with long winded rants about how Iruka is a better ninja than Tsunade). But, not even bob is unbaised (he tries hard but he’s still human or robot) and I think just a poll would be inadequate since Minato is fresh in our minds, while pein isn’t. So I propose a blog on: 1. a general recap of both their abilities. 2. My speculation on how their major abilities would match up. 3. Other people’s oppinions 4. My oppinions of those oppinions 5. A poll at the bottom. So if you would like to submit towards this blog send me a not via email at martinsharlo@yahoo.com

  105. ya im actually surprised it took you guys that long to notice that comment haha. i saw the scan on onemanga and got too excited and posted before i saw the mangastream one which is a much larger image. a man can dream i guess, haha.

    still though, we’ll see next chapter if Tobi sustained any real damage or if his body really is just a puppet shell (similar to the seemingly fake arm of his before). Most people I can think of who’ve been hit by a rasengan haven’t really survived.

    Personally, I don’t think Tobi is done yet. Minato made a comment back in the Pain arc that he “saw through everything I did. Only a shinobi with a special power can hope to defeat him” implying Tobi probably has more tricks up his sleeve.

  106. Thank you mart1!!! I too am soo tired of the Pein/Nagato vs whoever debate every chapter. I like shannaro for the analysis and theories and have gained so much insite into the naruto series. Its great to have 200 plus comments a chapter but about half of those are people arguing with king troll kisu about whose better then Pein/Nagato.

    My advice is to ignore kisu so that we can get back to analysis and theories relevant to the current chapters and not arguing about a guy whose been dead for a year.

    kisu is the rush limbaugh/ann coulter of manga, he says things to get everybody angry and people fall for it.

  107. @hyuga hate to say it but I quite enjoy the tRolling and discussions….. tbh there are not many new theories being thrown around and all we hear are a lot of the old theories. Aside from sasukes father and obito there really are not that much that needs to be discussed this chapter…. o and ftg 2 tbh I couldn’t tell the difference from Lvl 1 …. is he just faster?

  108. “Pein/Nagato vs whoever debate”: Let’s be fair. It isn’t just Pein. I have seen it with all the powerful characters; Naruto, Sasuke, Itachi, Jiraiya, the Kyubbi, and yes, even Minato. I actually enjoy these discusions since I started writing here as a fanfic./battle theorist talking about who would beat who or what one person should learn to beat another. I’ve started these discusions of the Tobi vs. and Kabuto vs. variants. And for a while did exactly what Kisu. is doing now only replace Minato with Hinata and Yellowflash with Nemo Prime.

    I simply find it would be better as it’s own blog since it leads many to think “not many new theories being thrown around” instead of seeing bob’s points “- Itachi’s parents both went somewhere prior to the appearance of the Kyuubi or – I was sure Madara would need at least a Mangekyou Sharigan …” and the response to this such as “FTG, it’s second level” and “I bet the second hokage was amazing.” This way when someone says something like “Tsunade is a better Hokage” or “Asuma was a weak jounin” we can know that the current chapter has already been discussed and analyzed.

  109. @mart1 I am 100% for a separate blog for the vs arguments, where people can debate all day long who is the strongest ninja.

    let the chapter comments be about the chapter or the current story arc.

    I too want to see theories about where are itachi/susake parents are. But its hard to see them through 100 comments of whose the strongest ninja.

    yes give the king troll his own blog

  110. I think you are right about doing a poll on Pein vs. Minato but you know people will still debate it when it doesn’t come out the way they want it. I personally think Minato could have taken down Peins bodies, I’m not saying defeating Pein would be easy for MInato but I do think he would still win!

    I think making a seperate blog is too much because we already have two and this is the discussion blog so I don’t think we should make another but, instead we should maybe apply rules, like when a chapter comes out only discuss the chapter because it really does make it difficult when there are 10 different discussion on one post. It would also be kinda hectic if people make a post about every single little theory and maybe I’ve done it but I realize Mart is right on this one, I just think we if we are going to make post about a certain theory we should have lots of info to back it up!

  111. Is their not a way to have a separate section on shannaro where their can be a place for people to debate whose strongest? or would that be too expense or technically difficult?

    Or how about a separate chapter post where people can debate who is stronger than the person the current story arc is focusing on. For example a chapter for talk about the current chapter/ story arc. And then 1 for whoever to discuss whose stronger than minato/the 3rd/tobi

  112. Is it just me or Will anyone e else feel cheated if this is really madara or his spirit? Personally I dont think it is him and if it was I feel like it would be not very exciting if it was…. te fun about tobi is te fact that it could be a lesser known shinobi (like sasuke father) or even obito (although that doesn’t make much sense. )

  113. Aww man

    I came super late for this chapter, thunderstorms had me in the dark for 2 days. This was a GREAT chapter even though the mystery of Tobi is still dragged on. We do know the 3rd Hokage was suiting up for battle, but I wonder how much help and effort he provided. This might be the BEST flashback of ALL time. Minato just might be the 2nd or 3rd strongest character, The only way I think Madara defeated Minato is because Minato needed to save the village, just like when Gaara fought Deidara. If it wasn’t for them protecting their village I bet both of those kages would of won their fights (maybe not Gaara though).

  114. I don’t remember the Danzo MS debate because I currently have a busy life…DARN YOU EPIC SOCIAL SKILLZ! >_<

  115. pein is shit….he was epically strong sure but was epically dull.

    whoever suggested that tobi is the 2nd hokage may well be the biggest genius ever. it all fits…TOBI-maru, space time jutsus, no-one actually saw him die. It just cant be actual Madara, that’d be far too boring now.

  116. @Danny yea the second does sound possible but this brings up another question…. how could Tobi be the second if the second was raised than sealed in the death reaper? The second was raised by oro during the invasion and sealed so not sure how that works out.

  117. @Token
    Well if you think about it, as the probable inventor of Edo Tensei, Tobirama or the Second Hokage, could have found a way to supplement or separate a small portion of his soul in order to avoid any suspicion should anyone choose to summon the Second Hokage by using Edo Tensei, for all we know Tobi could have told Oro to use Edo Tensei in order to eliminate the possibility of anyone suspecting the Second Hokage of being Tobi, the Second also had Space Time ninjutsu, why else would Kishi all of a sudden inform us of Tobirama’s abilities, suspicious if you ask me. Given that Tobi is a manipulator, he could have planned that far ahead. It’s stretch. Oh and I think it was kind of hinted that the Second was well acquainted with Edo Tensei, he kind off praises Oro for his use of it.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/118/05/

  118. @danny @token it was me who suggested the theory of the Second, cuz as @john says maybe he managed a way to make a plan with oro ( remember oro was a part of Akatsuki too) so oro summoned him by the Edo Tensei, and maybe Madara found the perfect body ( the Second Hokage, cuz he was a senju, and senju’s have the body of the six path sage, and madara have the eyes) to achieve his plan of becoming the jinchuruki of the Juubi ! Doesnt is make sense!? Think about it, maybe madara needed to have the body of a senju. so if my theory is right madara has now the eyes and the body so he could be the perfect jinchuruki of the juubi. so he actually IS MADARA, but inside tobirama’s body.

  119. @danny @token it was me who suggested the theory of the Second, cuz as @john says maybe he ( Tobi/madara) managed a way to make a plan with oro ( remember oro was a part of Akatsuki too) so oro summoned the Second by the Edo Tensei, (cuz remember edo tensei resucitates the soul, so thats why oro was able to resucitate it, cuz maybe the body was know with the soul of madara) and maybe Madara found the perfect body ( the Second Hokage, cuz he was a senju, and senju’s have the body of the six path sage, and madara have the eyes) to achieve his plan of becoming the jinchuruki of the Juubi ! Doesnt is make sense!? Think about it, maybe madara needed to have the body of a senju. so if my theory is right madara has now the eyes and the body so he could be the perfect jinchuruki of the juubi. so he actually IS MADARA, but inside tobirama’s body. ****

  120. This theory that the masked guy is Madara inside Tobirama the second Hokage very possible, I mean just look at it, their names and Tobi maru was a genius at water techniques so he could have easily became the Mizukage and he was a space/time technique users and he’s a Senju who can house the bijuu! I remember this was a theory a long time ago but there are some holes in this theory.

    1. In chapter 486, we saw Tobi with his mask off and his hair is black, the second Hokage’s hair was white.

    2. The Death Reaper Seal devoured Tobirama’s body in the Third Hokages and Orochimaru’s fight.

    On the other hand we don’t know all the secrets of Edo Tensei, but we do know all you need is a body to use as a medium but we don’t know if the same dead ninja can be used more than once!

    Also the way the Mask guy explain Madaras fight with Hashirama in chapter 399, he said Madara wasn’t dead and it showed him walk away badly injured so what happened to his body! There are many different angles but this is a very interesting theory one that has been debate before and I still believe it was possible!

  121. i like the theory of the second hokaage. i mean anyone who can create the edo tensei must be a little twisted???? 😛

  122. damn i meant to write “hokage”.

  123. NO FIRST COMMENTS, please read the rules guys, it took so long to fade the ‘AMG FIRST’ thing out, we dont want it back.

    Anyway, Naruto has grabbed my attention again with some incredible story telling, so im back for a while! Hope everyones been okay, been a few years since I joined now…nice to see old and new faces! 😀

  124. “will still debate it”: That’s fine as long as it’s not interfering with other discusions. The reason I said a blog and a Poll is specifically because if it was just a poll it would only lead to further arguements on the chapter discusion page.

    “only discuss the chapter”: There are a few reason we generally allow free discusion of unrelated topics on the chapter discusion page, while crack down on it in other post. 1. Bob’s the man (It’s just always nice to give him praise) so he doesn’t care if unrelated things are discussed while most people do. 2. Like you said, we shouldn’t make a blog about every little idea, it helps to talk about them and cement them while generating interest in the topic. 3. Sometime you just have an idea that people should here but it’s NOT blog length.

    “Is their not a way”: I have an idea I’m going to talk to Bob about.

    “Danzo MS”: A bunch of people thought he had MS but really it’s just hard to draw sharingan exactly the same from different angles multiple times.

  125. I actually like te Tobimaru theory, because of another thing, Tobimaru was the one who started persecuting the Uchiha (though this is according to Tobi)

  126. Tobimaru had Silver hair

  127. Wait a minute, why are people saying Tobimaru? His name is “Tobirama Senju”. Tobimaru is the bird from Suna, and where does it say the 2nd Hoakge use space time Jutsu? The man behind the Mask is either related to Sasuke, Madara in a different body, or a monster like Zetsu

  128. great chapter minato was awesome

  129. @rinnegan C’mon his hair was silver right? ok, but this is Naruto, and we are talking about ninjas, who can easily disguise as someone else. And yeah, I was confused with the name, but the important thing is that his name starts with TOBI .

    Its logicall! It is Madara!! INSIDE tobirama senju’s body,( and as what is happening with kabuto holding orochumaru inside his body) his body has changed with the years. Thats why his hair is not silver, and thats why its black. Its like kabuto’s new snake eyes and half body.

  130. AMG First? Wow, I’m a year and one month old here, and I still don’t know everything X__X

  131. Ok sorry I just read that according to Minato-Tobirama was very skilled in space time Jutsu

    @CarlosZ I don’t see Kabuto hair turning black like Orochimaru, but your theory could be possible, because Tobirama was a tall ninja, and when the masked man faced Minato he looked 3 or 4 inches taller than Minato

    My guess is the person behind the mask is someone who can attach different body parts to itself. Why would he want Naruto’s body when he already has a Senju body? Did Madara & Tobirama ever faught? I think we’ll be seeing alot more flashbacks before we see who he really is. Who hasn’t compared the 2 names Tobi & Tobirama? The theory seems to easy, but will see what happens

  132. I didnt mean kabuto’s hair turning black. I was comparing, i meant : maybe tobirama’s body changed just as kabuto’s boyd is changig while having oro inside him. And I never said tobirama and madara fought..

  133. I think Madara or whoever this is could have stole the second hokages body or whatever when all those ninja attack him and his squad when he appointed Hiruzen hokage in the chapter Danzo died. Maybe they took his body back to Kirigakure!

  134. @CarlosZ, yeah I know. I was just asking anyways because we do know Madara and the 1st battled, I was just wondering was that a possibilty therfore making Madara impressed with Tobirama to steal his body.

    @flash2
    But cloud ninja killed Tobirama not the ninja from Kirigakure,

  135. @rinnegan maybe he stole tobirama’s body cuz he was hashirama’s brother. And madara knew tobirama was a senju.

  136. let all uchiha get glasses so they can see better….

    @lilmoe …love itachi…but he just depends toomuch on the eyes….he hardly summons, or use his elements….it is all his eyes…on the other hand…i bet minato trained hard to get to whr he is….did u see how fast he made hand seal to warp the kyubi attack away… love itachi… but i give it to minato…. itachi cant even challenge madara.. even if he learnt seals from his wife…i think he puts it to a better use… not to mention wat he would have learnt from the toads….like kakashi teachin naruto FRS…. naruto perfected it himself

  137. best. weekend. ever.

    Anyhoo, I’m all for the no more “Pain vs the world” debates. But just to be fair, lets see who started it THIS time:

    “yellowflash2, on July 15, 2010 at 10:27 pm Said:

    I bet Minato could kick Peins ass anyday, he’d just suck all of Peins jutsu into the space-time technique and quickly dispose of all bodies, come on if Naruto could MInato wouldn’t break a sweat!”

  138. “did u see how fast he made hand seal to warp the kyubi attack away”: Isn’t the Kyubbi Cannon a fairly slow attack? Both Oro. and Pein were able to use their jutsu before it and neither is particularily noted for speed. I honestly just think that the multiple hand seals in one panel was Kishi being lazy. I’m not saying the hand motion wasn’t quick, but in the end his jutsu only came out at the same time as Pein’s and Oro’s did so it doesn’t really matter. Though I guess since we have no concept of time when reading a manga book it could be either way but it would again be the same way for both.

  139. Ok, i just read through. I would have agreed with the whole Tobirama thing, but it just doesnt feel right, knowing that Edo tensei revives a person by placing their soul into a corpse. Tobirama’s soul was even sealed.

    Then, there is a rule in anime about the hair of a character. Because mangakas create so many characters, they tend to start drawing characters with identical facial features, but remedy this by making their hair a different style or color, so the fact that Tobi has mask 3 different masks, and 2 different hair styles (why would he have short hair, then grow it long, then shave it again) means I cant agree that he is the same person each time (the Space-time ninjutsu is only used by the tobi with short hair).

    And im not entirely sure Kishi planned for Nidaime to have a space-time technique. I believe this is kishi remedying Nidaime’s blandness. Compared to Mokuton, Hiraiashin and a man that mastered all of Konoha’s techniques, Nidaime was pretty dull. All Kishi is doing is throwing random techniques Nidaime’s direction. At first all he had going for him was that he was a master of Suiton, then the anime gave him the Sword of the Thunder God, then Kishi (after realizing how godly he made the other 4 Hokages) gave tobirama the Edo Tensei and now the space-time technique. Cop out anyone?

  140. @Carlos, the manga (and humans in general) contradicts your point.

    “his body has changed with the years”

    We clearly see how young the Masked Man’s arms look and how tall he is. Old people tend to be shorter because they’re bones are weaker than the young (look at Sandaime), and human hair tends to move from a dark color to a lighter color (just look at Sandaime again), and if it started out white, its gonna stay white (just look at Jiraiya)

  141. “Osn’t the Kyubbi Cannon a fairly slow attack? Both Oro. and Pein were able to use their jutsu before it and neither is particularily noted for speed.” Just jumping in here, but: Yes, it is. But, Orochimaru summoned a fairly quick jutsu, as Rashomon, despite its size, is summoned rather quickly upon use, as shown with Sakon and Ukon…I think…Meh. And the Chakra Cannon is only slow because of its charge rate, of the Kyubi having to summon chakra to be condensed and properly fired. However, against Pain, the same rules apply, I believe.

  142. @kisu wait I meant by ” his body has changed with years” is not that he’s getting old. I meant that having madara inside his body has changed him. Jus like what is happening with kabuto. And PLEASE, dont compare this manga with real life , cuz you know, ppl dont have powers in the real life.

  143. @fleece …. -____- had you ever seen someone performing a chidori or a rasengan….. wow.

  144. @ Kisu, I’m done with all of these theories and discussions now until the next chapter if there is something to talk about. I am also done with this Minato vs. Pein thing and this thing was started by you every since the Minato flash back started, but who cares, it’s over let’s move on.

  145. I do have one more thing to say about Madara, I have always wondered, I know he isn’t as strong as he use to be but he has to have some kind of power and chakra if he can still control the Kyuubi and use Space/Time ninjutsu with both I’m guessing consumes a huge amount of chakra. The point I’m trying to make is why haven’t we’ve seen him use any Uchiha techniques if he’s suppose to be an Uchiha. He hasn’t used fire techniques or eye techniques besides controlling the Kyuubi but if his eye is implanted than he may not be an Uchiha after all!

    I am also wondering if the Uzumaki clan also have strong bodies and are basically invincible and long living you think their bodies are strong enough to use the Sharingan to it’s fullest potential? I mean they have to have a great amount of stamina which Naruto does to control the Sharingan. Maybe this masked guy is an Uzumaki/Senju with an Uchiha eye, the perfect shinobi!

  146. Oh, goodness. Another comment of mine pushed up without any acknowledgment. The story of my life -________-

  147. @yellow Thats why I think he’s inside the body of a Senju.

  148. I wish people wouldn’t call tobi madara yet madara had ems tobi has not once shown anything passed normal sharingan

  149. @Minatofan, to be fair, Kishi listed Tobi as Madara in the Third Databook so…..

  150. TOBI IS MADARA. BUT HE’S NOT AS STRONG AS HE USED TO BE. Thats why we havent seem him using the EMS.

  151. @ Carlso, I understand that but he should still be able to use Uchiha Techniques like fire jutsu and maybe MS techniques like Amaterasu or Tskuyomi and Susanoo. Maybe every Uchiha have different eye techniques, the only reason Sasuke probable have them is because Itachi implanted them. If that’s true then how many different eyes techniques exist.

  152. @Carlos yea we have really seen nothing from madara jutsu wise and from what we have. Seen from uchihas is usually like the giant fireball jutsu and the like.

  153. I agree with yellowflash the only thing we have seen from tobi is a normal sharingan an him spamming his teleporting jutsu I still have my doubts that tobi is madara if he really is madara then minato really isn’t that impressive an madara back in his prime an the first hokage musta been gods considering madara ain’t nothin what he used to be an an minato is the strongest ninja at this time

  154. I still think he’s madara, cuz he’s planning this whole Juubi stuff, and for that he need the tsyukomi (spelling) so he will use he’s uchiha power. But he’s very weakened, maybe thats why he wants sasuke’s eyes.

  155. @minato that may be true but hasn’t it been stated that e didn’t get the time jutsu till after his defeat? Personally it sounds suspicious that he lost and yet gained a time jutsu…. the madara angle look less and less likely specially when u consider his stories are starting to fall apart And he never goes above the normal sharingan and yet claims he has the higher one. Seems like he’s bluffing.

  156. @Eveyone. If tobi is not madara (wich i think he is) this would be pretty stupid. cuz then if at the end , tobi is another guy that we dont know , this guy wont have like the same effect in the story, dont know if you get my point..

  157. So someone fill me in… Where does it say that the Second Hokage possesed a space/time jutsu???

  158. @ token I don’t know if it’s been stated if tobi got the time space jutsu till after his defeat but if someone could look it up I’d really appreciate it an one lil comment he lost most of his power after his defeat an by some ppl theories explains why he can’t use ms or have ems but he’s able to learn of a time space jutsu that’s even better than the 4ths something just don’t sound right about that

  159. Serious prime the 4th states that tobis time space jutsu exceeds the 2nd hokage an his own this past chapter

    Fleece Johnson WTF dude

  160. I personally hopes he is Madara and if he isn’t it better be someone that has me completely surprised! I feel like all these discussions and theories about this is going to take the surprise out of it.
    @ Carlos, ” I still think he’s madara, cuz he’s planning this whole Juubi stuff, and for that he need the tsyukomi”.
    Actually if he’s planning to sync Sasuke with Gedo Mazo and i so desperate to make Sasuke strong he is probably going to use his Sharingan Tsukuyomi to cast over the world. I could be wrong, just putting that out there, because on the other hand if he really is planning to hand him over to Kabuto after his fight with Naruto if he succeeds in capturing the Kyuubi, then he could really be using his own Sharingan and that would make him a full blooded Uchiha.

  161. @Sirius Prime
    Minato say it in the lastes chapter http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/18388702/12

  162. It´s going to be cool to see Minato summon Gamabunta and se how they work together…

  163. Ok there ‘s something I dont get. How in the world the current tobi managed to make everyone think he was such a fool when he appeared in the actual timeline as zetsu’s subbordinated? Why neither kakashi or guy recognized him saying something like : ”ohh he was the one who attacked the village with the kyubbi years ago” Its kinda of illogic that noone knew about tobi being powerfull in the actual timeline. Everyone thinked he was a silly ninja.

  164. Up to this point kakashi and Guy have not see tobi and its likely they wont. I mean They may see the fourth fighting someone fro. A distance but They wont be able to tell who it is anyways.

  165. Ok but there must be stories like : that masked man who attacked Konoha…

  166. @ kisu

    That is the normal sharigan that sasuke is using to attack the raikage in 463, his MS looks like a star. Also thats madara isn’t using MS to control the fox, thats just lack of space to detail his eyes. nice try though

  167. @Carlos masked man doesn’t help… hell the anbu all have masks lol. Also I found it interesting that in the chapter minato comments how like madara this guys control over the kyuubi is short…two things first of he says Like madara which implies he thinks this is not madara and given his Intel on what he does know of madara we can assume this is more than a educated guess. Also I was under the impression that the first fought nine tails and kyuubi for an extended period;however it sounds Like even madara could no control nine tails for long and all the first had to do was restrain the kyuubi with a wood cage thing Like yamato uses and than battle madara One on one once madara lost the kyuubi. Madara seems weaker even before than what we are led to believe

  168. Also I like how minato realizes that the masked man is a very dangerous threat and realizes that the third can very much hold his own against te nine tails and knows that the village is in good hands while minato tackles the bigger current threat.

  169. @token yeah but those are different masks…

  170. @Naruto fan, I WAS saying its a normal sharinga. Uchiha Gaiden said it was an MS

    “uchiha_gaiden, on July 16, 2010 at 4:38 pm Said:
    i double checked this and he does use his Mangekyou! Check out the small panel of Tobi here when he unleashes the Fox!
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/502/04-05/

    In my comment I was replying saying that it IS a regular sharingan, but in my original comment I forgot to add quotations. Sorry, I just hate being corrected 😛

  171. Kisu do you believe tobi is madara?

  172. @Minatofan I do believe tobi is madara, but inside someone else body, wich I think is hte second’s body.

  173. spoilers…..
    wow i just read some sick ass spoiler an let me tell u the fourth is pretty bad ass, it seems the rasengan actually damaged tobi really bad all while the fourth implanted a tag into this tobi or madara character, cutting the connection between tobi an the kyuubi, kyuubi no longer under control, but stil minato has to go kick its ass while tobi runs like a punk jajaja. the rest pretty much ties everything 2 what we heard. DDCS an 4 element seal and 8 trigram seal, both kushina an minato die….. duh. Naruto has flashbacks. the end.

  174. @Minatofan, I believe Kishi is Madara.

  175. Spoilers….seem interesting
    Spoilers!!!!!!

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62604

  176. @Captian Obvious and anyone else who wants to post spoilers:

    Please post links so that next time we can read the comments nearby without accidentally reading the spoiler. I hate saying it, but kisu did it correctly this time. 🙂

  177. I understand everyones excitement about the next chapter and I am excited as well but please DO NO POST SPOLIERS!!! There are people who don’t want to see them just yet and we have to be fair to everyone so please don’t post them! Thanks to all Shannaro fans!!

  178. geez…. someone shoot the guys at manga stream… 😦

    yea i know… we paying them shit for what they do, but still!!!! it’s their fault for getting us hooked!!! neh??

  179. and no big guy… itachi didn’t depend too much on his eyes. it’s just like saying a kong fu master is depending too much on his body ??

    what’s wrong with using ur power?

    also, he’s so skilled in taijutsu and fire jutsus. the half white half black guy also said that wasn’t a bit of itachi’s power when he faught sasugay.

    remember, madara said it was no longer forbidden to attack konoha after itachi died… now why would someone like him listen to what itachi wants unless itachi had his foot in madara’s ass? i think itachi is on par with madara’s power.

  180. @lilmoe yea it was interesting how madara had to wait for itachi yo die before he attacked konoha. Think the pure respect madara had for itachi shows just how powerful he really waseven while ill…. imagine a healthy itachi

  181. I agree with you lilmoe, Itachi is one of the best

  182. Yeah, Itachi was great, just look at how he disposed of Orochimaru so quickly and Orochimaru is supposed to be one of the greats, a sannin, ans Itachi was almost dead when he killed him! Imagine the power he would have had if he did have EMS!

  183. Thanks for the spoilers Kisu

  184. Umm ok lol

  185. “please DO NO POST SPOLIERS!!!”

    You clearly need to read Shannaro!!!’s rules Yellow lol.

    “8. Do not complain about *spoilers* being on Shannaro!!! You’re on the wrong blog, bud.”

  186. What r u talking about, no one ever leak spoilers on this site. We usually wait for the chapter to come out and discuss them, you are the one who needs to brush up on Shannaro rules Zachi, lol.

  187. @Yellow, nah seriously though, its in “Da Rules”. I quoted rule # 8 directly from it lol. I told you I hate being corrected 😛

    https://shannaro.wordpress.com/bobs-rules/

  188. ZOMG 503 ish out!!

  189. @ everyone

    Zetsu is playing a bigger role in everything then the manga would have us believe…

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