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Naruto Chapter 501 – The Worst Day Ever

Dear Shannarolites, I have some good news – Bob is dead, so I’m taking over this week! Yay! You all know what this means – shameless advertising time! Mellorine – for One Piece 591 and Bleached Ichigo – for Bleach 411.

It’s too bad we already know what’s going to happen from here onward. Minato is going to fight the Kyuubi and seal it inside Naruto and at the end Kushina and Minato are going to die together, leaving Naruto alone. I’m not sure how Naruto’s gonna take what Madara did. Not only did he steal and corrupt Naruto’s best friend, he’s also the reason why Naruto lost his parents and was treated at scum for the first 15 years of his life. The upcoming clash between the protagonist and antagonist just got another reason why it’ll be a very exiting one.

This is how it started 500 chapters ago. The manga that is. And now Masashi Kishimoto’s creation is slowly heading to an end, unfortunately. But before I get too far ahead of myself, let’s see what actually happened in this chapter. Madara, like always, had planned perfectly for this situation. First, he had to separate Minato from Kushina and he managed that by using Naruto as bait. Madara knew that Minato would do anything for his child and so by aiming straight for Naruto’s life, he forced Minato take Naruto to a secure location, far from the Kyuubi extraction site.

Madara didn’t even need to use his Mangekyou to hypnotize the Kyuubi. What’s truly interesting here is that when Madara activated his sharingan, the Kyuubi’s eyes also turned into sharingans, but were instantly sealed by Madara’s jutsu. We know from Itachi that the Uchiha have a long history with the Kyuubi. And we know from Madara that the Kyuubi was created by the Sage of the Six Paths, who founded the Uchiha and Senju clans. Probbaly the Kyuubi was given to the Uchiha as a pet, or as a prisoner for safe-keeping. So what could make your pet fox have the same defective eyes you have?

Anyway, the Kyuubi was successfully extracted from Kushina’s body, which ultimately lead to her death. She could only spend a few more minutes with her son, after being rescued by Minato. With his wife dying, Minato had to make a very difficult choice – stay and protect his family, or risk his life in a fight he couldn’t possibly win, his death meaning that his son would be left an orphan from his very birth. At this moment we can truly understand why Minato was praised as the greatest Hokage in the village – in an impossible situation he acted selflessly and completed the duty he was chosen for.

Minato and Kushina have already made their appearances, the only other person that has left a part of himself inside Naruto is Itachi. We saw him holding baby Sasuke at the end of this chapter, from what we know, the events,which will be shown in the next couple of chapters are the reason why Itachi hated war and was forced to kill his clan. Hopefully Itachi will also show up in Naruto’s mind to clear up and finalize the story of the past.
Oh, also, Bob’s zombie will be back next week to write the summary, so don’t get depressed.


258 Responses

  1. I think the sharingan IS Madara’s jutsu, the fox is automatically hypnotize by the site of Madara’s sharingan and that’s why he said “you…!”
    And first mwahaha

  2. woot first.

    also i feel i should point out that even though we known both minato and kushina will be dead very soon, it is entirely possible kushina would have survived.

    after all she managed to survive having the kyubi torn out of her, which as we have been told in the past during the garra arc that when a host is seperated from there tailed beast they die. this wasnt true of kushina.

    other then that i was a bit disapointed this chapter since we didnt see who was really behind the mask, i think it is madara but i will continue to use Tobi untill it is shown. i also found it a bit drawn out. it seemed like kishi lengthed it to make the final ending next week.

    also, i hope with all this going on naruto will be able to learn a new technique from his mother, wheather it be the thunder god technique or something else.

  3. well, not much to say about this chapter except that i’m glad i actually made it to this discussion b4 it reached 30+ comments. anyways, i guess all i have to say is i want to see behind Tobi’s mask, and i want to see the actual process of the Kyuubi being sealed. damnit, y can’t the videogames b based on the manga instead of the anime, then we’d b able to have a Minato vs Kyuubi boss fight in Ultimate Ninja Storm 2

  4. From this short chapter the 4th is literally a badass. The way he was flying through different places at incredible speeds, also when he wasn’t using it when Naruto got thrown in the air. He’s a fast dude in general.
    What I would like to say is I am non believer now of this masked man being from the village. Even though it’s the most probably theory. The reason I say this is because the Fox knew! Who he was. He knew. “You…” <— 9 Tails.
    Another theory that has been crushed is that This might not be Madara because he probably obtained his Sharigan from the Uchiha Massacre. As it is shown. The chapter is before that event and he's using a sharigan to hypontize the Fox.
    What makes me most excited about the coming chapter is not only the most Epic fight of Naruto's life, but the Uchiha's response to this situation. I mean think about it. If they were getting ideas of starting a rebel army why not take action when the time is most ripe. I was use this to my advantage, but hey they had no idea this was coming. Still doesn't mean you can't improvise a half assault on the village. That's what bugs me out. That the Uchiha are suppose to be secretly trying to take over, but Fugaku (Sasuke's dad and leader of the Rebel) lets Mikoto ( Sasuke's mom) name him after the 3rd Hokages dad when he was a Senju or at least an alliance.

  5. 2 important things this chapter.
    1. It seems Tobi really did lie about the Kyubi being a natural disaster
    2. Minato, Minato, Minato……..tsk tsk tsk 😦

  6. dammit eagles fan, when i posted the firts time it showed me as being the first. oh well.

    it wasnt till after they uchiha started to plan there rebbelion if im not mistaken. it was after the kyubi attack that they really became despised within the village because it was an uchiha who had the kyubi attack, regardless of whether or not he was a missing nin or not.

    as a side note, bee and yamato are still sitting around doing nothing? naruto has been sitting there inside his subcountious now for some time, arnt they curious as to whats going on inside of there?

  7. I think Itachi is in this chapter about the age when he activated his sharingan for the first time. This might be the event that triggered it.

  8. minato minato minato, so its only at the end when it dawns upon you that you are the hokage and should actually think about doing your job. But I must say, you sure are one quick sob!

  9. within 10 .. wooot

    ne one noticin the rant that idiots were makin abt minato not being a worthy hokage .. understand this he cud hav killed kushina nd naruto thereby eliminating the kyubi all together then what …. defeat madara …. nd then he’d go like kakashi’s father … tired of thinkin he killed those two.. will kill himself …

    why was obito eliminated out of masked man ideology ??

    nd itachi is still a kid there is still a lot of time before he massacre’s his entire clan …
    frankly if u listen to madara’s explanations carefully he’s given a different one everytime … perfect body, the jubi, perfect weapon (thru pein), distribute among akatsuki…. nd what not ….

    i must say kishi has thought out a lot … and eventually everything will fall in place ….

  10. people keep saying in order to do his job properly minato should have kiled kushina and let naruto die. that has to be the biggest load of cow dung i have ever heard.

    first and formost there is no way to tell if he had killed kushina if the kyubi would have gone away with her. given the weakness of the seal it is entirely possible that very event would have set the kyubi free. it was nearly free at that time to begin with.

    and to top it off in order to protect the village from the kyubi he sacrificed his life to seal it away. that takes a serious set of balls to do. the only other thing you could argue is let naruto die to save kushina, but at that time all he could do is probaly warp back into the vilage and given the weakness of the seal there was no way to tell if they would have been able to keep the kyubi at bay.

  11. @kisuzachi

    That’s a great point, I totally forgot about Tobi mentioning that the Kyuubi was a natural disaster. If anyone needed more proof that he is the world’s biggest liar, there it is.

    Of course, I still hold faith that Tobi is Obito, or at least his body, because I feel that is so poetic for Kakashi and adds depth to the story, but since it seems the Kyuubi recognized the sharingan, maybe it is the spirit of Madara in Tobi.

    FTG is pretty obviously now not related to body flicker. I always thought the seals had to be on the move for him to sense them, but now it seems Minato is always connected to objects with the seals on them, so that he can tell when the kunai is thrown. I never thought he’d have a kunai hanging in a safe place, but that’s one of the smartest things he’d ever done.

    Not too sure why he didn’t use FTG rapidly in succession to bring Naruto back followed by Kushina, but perhaps it uses an amount of chakra in proportion to the distance he travels.

    Lastly, I think the picture of Minato putting on the Hokage cloak is so badass, I can’t wait for next week.

  12. good chapter and good post.

    to me the most importain thing we learn was that the Uzumaki clan and their “longevity” allows them to live after the tailed beast is pulled from them.

    This is importain cause i see it as a way for Sasuke to make admins for the things he has done in the pass. After its all said and done, he’ll be the one to take the fox out of Naruto and seal it away. Probably diein in the end and Naruto becoming hokage.

  13. “to me the most importain thing we learn was that the Uzumaki clan and their “longevity” allows them to live after the tailed beast is pulled from them. ”

    No, they die like everyone else, just not instantly. Sasuke pulling out the fox would only cement that he is an unrepentant (guess that’s a word), irredeemable asshole.

  14. @Kisu-

    No they dont die, at least not if they have medical attention, kushina wasnt able to recieve medical help because minato had to act fast, and he problably needed her help to put that damn fox into naruto.

  15. @Kisu’s other comment-

    Saskue already is irredeemable, lol and he’s always been an asshole XD

  16. Also, Minato thouroughly impressed me with how he handled everything, that look he gave tobi just screamed “yo bitch, il be back..”. One thing keeps confusing me though, although the tobi now appears to have the same abilities, it just feels like he’s someone different, anyone else get that vibe? idk anyways he might just have Multiple personality disorder or something, i wouldnt doubt it, he has some crazy ass getups. lol.

    Another thing that i found intresting was that the full moon was out when tobi unleashed Kyuubi…..ya know iv been thinking that ever since tobi told the kages about the juubi being sealed in the moon if it had any affect on the Beasts themselves, because Shukaku was remember, garra supposedly couldnt control him as well on a full moon. Another thing that doesnt make sense about maddara’s plan, if he wants to revive the Juubi and become its host, and use tsyuukomi on the whole planet how is he going to do that with the juubi in the moon itself? he’d have to break it to release the juubi….seems counter-productive. Personaly i think tobi is just bullshiting everyone for an ulterior motive, peace to him is just crap, he wants something else i garuntee you.

  17. @ smartass, i agree w/ just about everything u said. but 1 thing u got wrong was that Gaara had trouble controlling Shukaku any night, which is y he was an imsomniac (sp). anyways, i’d like it if the whole “Moon’s Eye” plan is just crap like u said, cuz then that would leave the possibility that the moon in their universe could’ve been formed the same way Luna, Earth’s largest moon, was formed (i’d like this cuz of how much i love science)

  18. ahhhhhhhhhh! zombies!!!!

    this week i have no theory surprisingly
    tobi’s a liar
    minato’s a badass
    and kyuubi knows tobi…..
    i believe that tobi is of the uchiha blood line but who i still believe that be might be obito, itachi, or his best bud
    not madara

    and i can’t believe i’m saying this but i with kisuzachi-teme
    kushina will unfortunately die like other hosts land like tobi said it’s because of her clan’s longevity that allowed her to say alive as long as she did

  19. That definatelly has to be madara…. I got the feeling that the fox knew who he was. Im guessing is from madara having controll the fox at the harishima fight. from then on its been sealed by mito and then kushina. So it has to be madara, or atleast his eyes!

  20. @DevilsRaGe
    Do you really think that Obito can grow in strength in such a short time so he can control the Kyubi and can teleport him self? and also come up with all that information about the seal weeknes and the uzumaki klan?m so It´s prety obvius that Obito isn´t the masked man

  21. I really liked this chapter. And yes! I knew the Fourth wouldn’t kill Kushina (we all knew that he wouldn’t anyway). I would just like to point out that I knew that Madara was lying as soon as Kushina explained what really happened (Refer back to my post in Sasuke Sarutobi/Sasuke Uchiha). This just goes to show you that Mad and Kisu (Mostly Mad) were wrong about Minato’s character. In the end, he did the right thing and not only let Kushina see Naruto for the last time, he also went to save the village. That’s what I meant when I said that he was probably going to save the 1001 people instead of sacrificing one person to save one thousand. He would save Naruto and Kushina.

    “Another thing that doesnt make sense about maddara’s plan, if he wants to revive the Juubi and become its host, and use tsyuukomi on the whole planet how is he going to do that with the juubi in the moon itself? he’d have to break it to release the juubi….seems counter-productive.”

    @ Smartass: Read My posts in “Thanks 500, A few more questions answered with more in mind” I covered that in GREAT detail.

  22. @Nemo-prime-

    Yea i knew he had trouble any night, but it was said in the manga that it was especialy hard during the full moon.

    right here

  23. Eh, I’ll Just repost it so people can read it here:

    “I think theres one of three scenarios about how this would happen:

    1. I don’t think he needs to get the Juubi’s body from the moon in the first place because by fusing all the Bijuu’s bodies together, I think it recreates the Juubi’s physical form. I mean all the Bijuu aren’t just chakra so I think their physical form, once they’re fused together, I think that will be the new physical body of the Juubi, Or that Jutsu/Summon that Pein uses to extract the Bijuu from the Jinchuuriki will become the new physical form of the Juubi. So he doesn’t really even need to touch the moon.

    2. Maybe when they said prison, they didn’t mean that the Juubi is in the moon itself. Chibaku Tensei is a very complex justu, and that small black orb that the Deva Path created was probably a miniature black hole or something with immense destructive force and gravitational pull (to be able to pull massive amount of hard stone and earth from the earth itself) So maybe, the Juubi is in some sort of alternate dimension at the very core of the moon because it probably would have been sucked into the black hole/ gravitational pull.

    3. If the Juubi is actually on the moon, (if it was on the moon, it would would probably be in the core of the moon somewhere) then, you have to think of its size of both the Juubi and the moon. If the moon was the exact size of the Juubi’s body, I don’t think it would hold the Juubi for very long. If you look at what happened in the manga/is happening in the anime, you’ll see that when the Deva path used Chibaku Tensei in order to capture the Kyuubi, who is a mere spec of the true Juubi, the amount of Earth that went into the Chibaku Tensei was enormous and the Kyuubi, almost at it’s full transformation, broke out very easily. Now I don’t think that the Juubi is the exact size of the Moon because the moon is ENORMOUS. I think that Maybe the Juubi is around at Maximum 10% of what the Moon is because if it was any more than that amount, I think it would be able to break free from the moon just by using brute force. Now if/when Madara extracts the Juubi from the moon, he will either: A) Teleport the Juubi’s body to the surface of the Moon or Earth (which is more likely) or B) Literally extract it from the moon, taking out a part of the moon in the process (which is less likely). If option “B” happens then I would think that Madara can use the powers he has received from becoming the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi to Use Chibaku Tensei or another Jutsu to restore the moon to its former glory or use the space debris he created from taking out a part of the moon to put the moon back together.

    I like the first scenario the most , but hey, that’s just me ;P”

    Also, I wanted to add a quote I found on the Naruto wiki on Nagato’s page:

    “After Nagato’s death, Madara made a note to steal Nagato’s Rinnegan to be used for his own purposes.”

    So then, It would be a lot easier for Madara to either Implant those eyes into himself and use Chibaku Tensei to recreate the moon; or, like Danzo, put the eyes on his body somewhere, or put them into like a person he controls like a zombie and have them use Chibaku Tensei.

  24. http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/16120179/12
    “Didn’t kill you right away” as opposed to Jinchuriki dying instantly. She’ll die, but her chakra is barely keeping her alive

  25. @Kisu: Lol, I was just about to post the exact same idea ;P

  26. @Kisu-

    And? it doesnt say she cant survive, tobi also said that the its only proper that the former host die, otherwise maddara wouldnt have bothered using the kyuubi to kill her.

    Nothing in there says she wouldnt have survived, plus she had just given birth, and had the kyuubi ripped out of her, and still was alive, Naruto doesnt have to deal with that shit (hopefully XD) so he is at an advantage.

    So yea she COULD have died without proper attention, and she could have lived, had circumstances been different, she could easily have been alive and well today.

  27. @Smartass, I’ll let the manga talk for me. No sense in debating it because you’ll stick to your point. Let’s just wait until next issue (btw, Madara would kill her because why should he wait for her to die) 😉

    MAN I AM SICK OF EVERY PROTAGONIST HAVING SOME UBER PARENT! Why couldnt Kishi have said Naruto’s mom was a hooker and his father was a drunk? Maybe then all this hard work mumbo jumbo would have been believable. Its Naruto’s hard work that made me like his character in the 1st place. He’s the first protagonist I’ve ever liked too….*sigh* I just might join Team Sasugay

  28. Well, I just think we don’t know yet either way. I think that it will soon be clear, Kushina, IMHO, will likely tell Minato that she is dying anyway, so he should use her chakra in the seal, but she was too weak to perform the sealing herself so Minato had to do it.

    It could very well be that when the bijuu is removed, the jinchurriki’s chakra is ripped out with it since they are so connected and thus Kushina survived because her chakra was strong enough to not be ripped out. If this is the case, then she could have lived. Surprisingly she didn’t though so it seems likely she could not have survived.

  29. First I want top say….how cute are does adorable boys on the front page. They just look like they can be best friends when they grow up…..If things were way different.

    Anyway the thing that got me the most in the whole chapter is the look the calm, cool, collected, good heart man named Minato gave on page 4 and page 14. I read many mangas and watch many anime and I have only see such a look like that one before and that was Goku when Majin Vegeta killed those people in the stadium. Minato is a man that shows despite his good nature he can become a killer at any moment.

    I think Minato a man not to be messed with. the masked man has got a lot of guts.

  30. one thing i just noticed is how the f**k did Kushina kno what Minato did after he teleported away w/ Naruto and Tobi teleported away w/ her? like, weren’t they a descent distance apart and had no visual contact? so how does she know what Minato was doing when they weren’t around each other? and now she’ll tell of when Minato was fighting the fox, which she wasn’t resent 4 either? did the Kushina have some type of telepathy? or did Minato just explain to her in excrutiating detail every second of what happened while she wasn’t looking in the time between defeating the Kyuubi and finishing the seal? anyways, just something that kinda confused me
    on a way Kushina could’ve survived, i think it would’ve been possible if a powerful medical ninja (ie: Tsunade, Chiyo, etc) was there, but any less, she’s doomed

  31. Yo. Long time reader, first time commentor.
    awesome chapter but 2 things:
    1. If Minato moved that fast to grab baby Naruto, couldnt he move back to Kushina just as fast then FTG outta there with both of them with him?? Couldve saved the both lives plus keep Tobi away from Kushina.

    2. The Obito=Tobi theory is currently out. This is 16 years ago. So taking into account how old Kakashi is in the present Obito would be about 14-15 (if Madara was using his body). So if it were Obito behind the mask it would be “The masked kid”

  32. I think it’s obvious that Madara or who ever this is placed his under a genjutsu to control him, kinda like Sasuke did Mando during his fight with Deidara.

    Naruto should be pissed off because Madara took his childhood and family away from him and now his best friend and is trying to kill him and his entire village! Naruto should definitely be the one to kick his ass and kill him!

    Sasuke is the one I don’t understand, he knows Madara helped Itachi wipe out the Uchiha then why not try and kill him, or is it that he is waiting to gain EMS, I still think that Sasuke isn’t all the way evil, I think he is planning this whole thing to get Madara!

  33. @Nemo Prime, I think because she is dead and you learn about everything in dead and maybe because she is telepathic, remember she could talk to MInato with her mind so she could have just watched everything telepathically!

  34. @Nemo, its manga, don’t question it. I was wondering the same thing with Luffy’s recent flashback in One Piece (because in MOST of the scenes he wasnt even present). But then again, maybe Minato told her since they’re both in Naruto’s head……EWW! His parents were in his head! I hope NAruto didn’t jerk and I hope Kushina and Minato never got to know each other in his head either….

  35. “Naruto should be pissed off because Madara took his childhood and family away from him”
    The human mind doesn’t necessarily work like that. Just because he knows Madara screwed him over, doesn’t give him enough reasons to hate him. Now he also knows Sasugay chose the path of hate. I’d say he still doesn’t have a REAL reason to hate Madara. Its like Ichigo in Bleach. He knew Aizen hurt everyone around him, those dear to him and even his dad, but it still wasnt enough motivation. I don’t know…

  36. @ Kisu, Maybe you should just join a whole new Manga all together! If you really are so dumb that you can’t understand the dept of this story then you really are out of touch with this manga! Then why do you like Pein, he was suppose to have this great family before they were kill why not be angry at that! Goku on DBZ had killers for parents and he didn’t even get to know them! Just keep what ever you have to say to yourself because no ones interested!

  37. This manga chapter finally destroys the theory that Tobi is Obito, because around this time Obito would still be a child r a teen and Madara is clearly older here!

  38. “f you really are so dumb that you can’t understand the dept of this story then you really are out of touch with this manga”
    I cant understand the depth of the manga?? Was I the one that… I’ll refrain from throwing insults. Ok Mr. Flash, tell me what I don’t get because I think I understand this story to the highest degree possible.

  39. @ the truth …. i thot of your theory … and i thot may be the reason kakashi didnt have it is becos obito wasnt dead before his eyes was removed… while danzo and the guy in the mask had it becos they took theirs from a deadbody…..remember madara didnt have it when he took it from his bro while alive

  40. @ flash, i wouldn’t say kisu is 1 who doesn’t understand this manga, i’d put him more as someone who has more of a twisted sense in what he likes and dislikes. likes: evil psychos that kill a lot o’ ppl (unless they [the psychos] r homosexual); dislikes: kindness and ppl who show signs of humanity (unless their acts of evil outweigh their acts of kindness), and also homos as well. there r exceptions to this rule however, such as him liking Gaara, and disliking Sakura (unless Sakura really is a man and kisu dislikes him for being gay). anyway, i stopped trying to understand his psyche a LONG time ago.

  41. “anyway, i stopped trying to understand his psyche a LONG time ago.” That’s the only logical thing to do 🙂

    “likes: evil psychos that kill a lot o’ ppl, dislikes: kindness and ppl who show signs of humanity” Yep, that’s me in a nutshell. This is a manga about NINJAS (y’know those guys that arent supposed to have emotions and kill their targets for MONEY). Ninjas are almost as cool as pirates, and pirates are almost as cool as Golden Flying Apes that shoot lasers out their mouths, that’s why I started watching Naruto. I’ll stick to the point that Zabuza was the last NINJA this series had.

  42. “Goku on DBZ had killers for parents” Yeah I dont get what point you were trying to make Flash, but I think its that Goku had special parents? If so, then you’re wrong. Goku’s father was low class Saiyan trash, but him being a Saiyan is in and of itself special.

  43. btw, definitive proof that killing a Jinchuriki kills a Biju


  44. yondaime dons the HOKAGE jacket ready to do BATTLE!!! BOOOOM!!!

    how amazing does that look! i hope naruto learns the FTG and gets his damn awesome cloak too!!! its too awesome!!!

  45. Did No one think it was odd that itachi was holding sasuke by himself?

  46. i’m still on the fence about Tobi…

    I’ve always thought he he was Madara’s spirit inhabiting other’s bodies (Obito, Shisui, whoever the hell he is inhabiting before the Uchiha Massacre)….but all the foreshadow and hints tell me this is not Madara Uchiha in any form. Just an imposter mastermind who knows much more than any other character in the manga…except maybe Kabuto. haha

    just since the izanagi thing it’s been more reasonable to believe it’s Madara’s spirit. Having the mask would make sense since he would have been shamed for having to use Izanagi— it was a forbidden jutsu amoung the uchiha because of the fact it leaves you powerless, which is what he is now. That’s assuming he needs both eyes to be able to use EMS, which is the same requirement for Susanoo. Plus, having access to all those bodies and eyes only add to the fact he’s totally trying to compensate for his lack of power. His ability to take over bodies would also explain how he controlled the Mizukage…which i personally think is going to be a HUGE part of explaining who the hell Tobi really is.

    however…you can’t deny the obvious hints that tobi seems to be an impostor and that he is amassing an army and jutsu for that conflicting master plan of his. Agreeing with Kakashi….we can’t prove it yet…but I disagree with him that it’s really Madara.

  47. dude Minato look soooo pissed!! too bad he’s going to get pwned but at least he goes out with a bang. Pretty enjoyable chapter. This is by far the most epic flashback ever

  48. The Masked guy aint from whirpool country or eddy village you no what i mean.
    Its shown in his suprise from the fact the Kushina doesnt die. He states that they are really invincible. or something about longevity.

    I love this flash back… although some more serious information had better come form it.

  49. @ Kisu, Okay tell us one and for all why do you dislike Minato, is it just because he didn’t kill Kushina even though he still saved the entire village and the people at the cost of his life and Kushina’s and not knowing their own child! Is it that there were people who died during the attack that could have been saved?

    Sorry, but like any normal human being, Minato was thinking of his wife and if newborn son at the moment! At least he is trying to save everyone, your favorite character Peins big bright idea was to kill everyone and see if the world changes!

  50. @Yellowflash: I can’t answer for Kisu, but why I HATE MINATO: Minato has really managed to drop in my estimation of him. I mean really, how many panels were occupied with him tucking naruto in bed, etc. I would have FTG’d to Hiruzen, left naruto with the ANBU and FTG with Hiruzen and a few high ranking ANBU (there should be a few S-Rank ANBU) to the masked man. Then while that squad is doing the right thing (i.e. kicking arse), I would FTG Kushina to Naruto and instead of wasting my time answering silly questions, FTG’d back to the battle and gone nuts!
    To be honest the time wasted in him tucking naruto into bed, could have been utilised saving Kushina. Note that it was at that time that the masked man was busy chatting to Kushina. By this time we at least know that Copy Ninja Kakashi was a renowned ninja, plus we have the folks of the konoha 12 AND yamato who was cloned from the 1st (I believe all of them were old enough to deliver some solid arse kicking or at least)!

  51. “it was odd that itachi was holding sasuke by himself”: Are you suggesting Fugaku or Mikoto are Madara (Mikoto would have to be a chain smoker to pull off Madara’s voice.)

    I agree with Madzikage, except I would also put Kushina into a hospital and that the Konoha 12 would be babies, since some of them weren’t even born yet. However besides Kakashi and Tenzo, the Konoha 12 SENSEIS (except Kurenai) might be usefull. So since they weren’t summoned I can only guess they weren’t was because they were off on a mission.

  52. Wouldn’t kakashi still be pretty young like 12? Not to mention te anbu as we have seen are pretty useless against madara. And ur telling me it would not take a long time for him to get a group of anbu hiruzen and other ninja? He didn’t waste time he let his wife have a.couple.minutes with her SON and I’m pretty sure h is going to go nuts. My guess is that his ftg can work with himself and maybe one other person. Also the reason he didn’t get kushina as well was because naruto had explosive tags placed on him and minato had to react immediately and don’t have time to try And get kushina. And I’m not sure hospitals would help cause.getting the kyuubi taken out of u I’m sure has some side effect that can’t be worked on. And as we have seen of madara abilities I’m sure.the anbu.and crap would not be kicking the kyuubi/madaras ass. A lot of the konoha ninja would get pwn’d

  53. @madz its a manga, its difficult to tell how long he was there tucking naruto into bed, that scene was probably also to show minatos natural father instincts, to make him a lovable and caring charactor, a family man who, like the third hokage, believed that everyone in the village are his family, which he is also off to protect as his duty. MInato has duty to his family as well as the village, everyone loved and respected minato in the village. Why?? cos, as a hokage he did his duty. he protected the village, his family. ok… so i must be a minato fan 😛

  54. @mart: by ‘folks’ I meant the Konoha 12’s parents.
    @?: yip you are a fan boy. Look I do understand what people r saying, but even th there aren’t any S-rank ANBU (by the way, fo & torune managed to figure out madara’s just and infect his arm and they r Root not even ANBU who should be the best of best). I just think that this one-man, one-solution, chuck norris tactic that minato is doing doesn’t show any battle forethought. I mean at least get Hiruzen, or leave a message inhis hokage office (where there’s probably a tag). Additionally, weren’t there any secondary defenses put in place just in case the kyuubi got released. E.g. Put ANBU and hiruzen on standby (no reason given) but just as a preliminary measure in case sh*t hit the fan.
    Minato died because he underestimated what he was dealing with and that is even if we take the masked man out of the equation.
    But next week should be one hell of a battle!

  55. “Is it that there were people who died during the attack that could have been saved? ”

    Yep that’s exactly why. I liked Minato back in Part1 and even up to Part2. I gave up my Minato fanboy status the moment he stopped acting like a (REAL) ninja (last week).

    Kakashi would be 14
    Asuma would be 15
    Guy would be 14
    Kurenai…who cares?

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Konoha is too lax. The only Village I’d live in if I was in Naruto is Kumogakure or MAYBE Kirigakure (those guys send out hunter nin to kill missing nin, not 5 genin to “rescue” them lol).

    @Madzi, Anbu are as uselss as Samurai. Well, except in the anime where they were fighting Animal Path, those Anbu were badass.

  56. Well I wanna say this. 1st Roots is a Sub part of ANBU. Remember it is call ANBU Roots. So they are among the best od the best. You think Danzo wouldn’t put two of his best with him. 2nd We are at the end of the manga chapter we do not know what Minato will do. it was not said or shown he will take the fox on by himself plus it was said and shown at the beginning of this manga the entire Leaf Ninja Force fought the fox. Unless you mean Minato and Tobi one man, one solution. 3rd Tobi killed the ANBU watching guard so there was no advance warning about the fox attack. So even if they had a team they ready it probably meant nothing plus the only three people to see the fox power i am assuming was the 1st, Madara and Mito so no one was ready for the Fox’s powers. I do agree Minato died underestimating his foes but that masked man going by Madara was a calculating mastermind as seem throughout the manga and anime. And my sound fan boyish but I agree also with ?. Because Minato new born son was in extreme danger and being a father myself i understand that his anger and rage go in the way of is judgement.

  57. @Kisu-

    Of course itl kill the bijuu, naruto is about to be splattered falling off a gigantic cliff.

    How many times do i have to say it lol, Kushina was giving birth, and the seal was weak, killing her would in no way have solidly killed the kyuubi, he was already getting loose. So if your saying minato should have killed kushina, its just plain wrong. The kyuubi was still Extreemely liable to escape, especialy with Tobi present.. And if your were minato, congratulations you just killed your wife, your son, and no host to house the beast and just suicided the entire village and maybe the whole world, congratu-fukin-lations 🙂

    @Kisu’s other comment about naruto not being mad because maddara screwed him over-

    THATS BULLSHIT, if i knew someone screwed over my childhood, i would the most pissed off little asshole in the world, i would go apeshit, so saying the human mind doesnt work like that is insane, This is the manga so it doesnt portray how most real people would act. Because i can garuntee you humans are WAY more prone to get angry about anything, we are naturaly violent no matter how sophisticated we attempt to be, and we try to make conflict and react to any conflict regardless of its degree.

  58. @kisuzachi
    Here´s prof that Naurtos face is more like Minato http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/367/12/
    but wait a sec here´s prof thsat Narutos is more like kushina http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/498/08/
    hmmm, maybe things change, even the words of an evil tailed beast talking about that if the host die the kyubi die

  59. @kisu u can say the village is lax but after three invasions by strong ninja (madara/nine tails, oro and pein) they are still standing. Yea people died and stuff but they live in a ninja world…. bound to be some deaths but in te end te villagers remain for the most part intact and lived to see another day.

  60. @Smartass, meh. I really doont care what happened in the past. for me to hate someone, that person has to do something to me directly. Like kill someone I know, or steal my Xbox 360 (that’d make me go apeshit crazy)

    Now tell me what’s the difference between Minato killing Kushina and most likely killing the Kyubi, or Madara ripping the Kyubi out of her and killing her anyway? Let me tell you the diff. 1 option most likely kills hatred incarnate and one option screws you and your village over.


    As you can see, only the Jubi was able to escape upon death because its power was so great and the fact that the Sage’s was THE VERY FIRST EVER seal, and CANNOT be logically compared with today’s seals.

    Kyubi dying – http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/168/12/
    Kyubi giving Naruto chakra so the kid doesn’t die – http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/16/

    Now in the Pain fight, the seal was at its weakest. If killing the Jinchuriki would have released the Kyubi, he would have let Pain kill Naruto instead of trying to take over

  61. no not let Pain kill Naruto, he would have just transformed Naruto’s body back to normal and let Chibaku Tensei crush him, then escape the seal.

  62. @Token, compare Konoha, to Kumogakure, Iwagakure and Kirigakure (the only trouble Kiri has are the constant missing-nins and the Kaguya attack, but they kill those pretty quickly so its not so much of a problem). the fact is, Konoha is far too lax considering that it has REGULAR people in it, people that aren’t ninja. Would you want to see poor Ichiraku or his daughter die because Tsunade couldnt kill Sasuke back in Part1? Sunagakure is more weak than it is lax.

  63. @Kisu-

    “Now tell me what’s the difference between Minato killing Kushina and most likely killing the Kyubi, or Madara ripping the Kyubi out of her and killing her anyway? Let me tell you the diff. 1 option most likely kills hatred incarnate and one option screws you and your village over.”

    Ok heres the difference, there is no most likely killing the kyuubi in any way, and Maddara did try to killl kushina, but minato saved her, and his child and is off to re-seal the kyuubi in a vessel to one day take out that fuker tobi. So Saving his son, not killing his wife, and putting a lid on the kyuubi all just screwed tobi over since Naruto is obviously going to use his newfound power to kill tobi. If minato had gone by your way, you risk loosing the kyuubi because of the weak seal, thereby givin tobi the kyuubi, and your son is now dead because tobi just killed him and you didnt save him will you were butchering your wife. So where does that leave you? oh right, in the middle of fukin nowhere 🙂 obviously thats a stupid ninja, just go about killing things without thinking them through. Great job lol

    As for the Sage, of course he can be compared to modern today, even to this day his strength and power is (arguably) still the greatest to ever exist, he succesfully sealed the Juubi in his own body, a feat even the uzamaki werent common at. Only one so far has been known to do so, and we arent sure how well that went or if it needed tweaking later on.

    The kyuubi isnt the juubi, i know that, but its the next strongest in comparison, so even if its not as powerful, it can handle a weak seal and a weak women who just got done giving child birth. He was ALREADY LEAKING OUT.

    The pain fight is irrelevant, nagato wanted naruto alive because what would Nagato do if the kyuubi was unleashed? And nagato had no idea that the seal was weak, he probably doesnt even have knowledge of the four element seal, he just figures its naruto pulling the kyuubi out. So he would have no knowledge to act on the weak seal.

    Dont bring up some weak argument like that

  64. I really hate all you people saying “konoha is too lax” they are trying to create peace in the world, something their founders wanted. Also, from Tobi’s story, as much of it as you can believe, the younger son believed that love was the way to peace. This is what the Senju and thus Konoha are trying to do.

    The elder son, the Uchiha, believed might was the answer, and look at what happened to the Uchiha? Look at what an Uchiha is doing to the world, or at least someone with a sharingan.

    You can badmouth Minato and the other Hokage all you want, but they are true to the beliefs of the Senju and the founders of Konoha, and that is why I believe in them.

  65. @Ripcord, they’re not trying to create peace in the world. They’re looking out for themselves as much as any other village and that is why I DONT believe in them.

    @Smartass, weak argument? I HAVE MANGA EVIDENCE SUPPORTING MY ARGUMENT LOL! There are 9 Biju + the Jubi’s body in the moon, do you think the Kyubi is 9/10s the Jubi’s power? If so then that’s just dumb. The fact is, we know that the Jubi is worlds apart from all the other Biju. And if killing Kushina would have removed he Kyubi, Madara could have just pushed a kunai through her and released it instead of the ritual thing he did. Minato screwed up and its as simple as that. There’s no defending him because everything you might point out will contradict the manga

  66. “And nagato had no idea that the seal was weak, he probably doesnt even have knowledge of the four element seal, he just figures its naruto pulling the kyuubi out. So he would have no knowledge to act on the weak seal.”

    How did Nagato get into this? I said while Naruto was transforming inside Chibaku Tensei, the Kyubi would have just reversed the transformation and let Naruto die then be released. The fact that he tried to take control proves that if the Jinchuriki dies, then the Biju dies. Please, give me one instance where killing the Jinchuriki didnt kill the Biju. And dont say the Sage of Six, because the Jubi is in a class by itself, a Super Biju, if you will.

    The Sage may have been the most powerful being to ever exist, but nowhere near as skilled as the ninja these days. He could undoubtedly beat them, but they have more skill considering that knowledge and technology are always evolving. So obviously the FIRST SEAL EVER is not as advanced or technical as today’s seals, but because it was made by the Sage his chakra probably compensated for its inadequacies, that’s why upon death the seal would give out, not like today’s seals.

  67. @Kisu-

    Yes weak, your manga evidence is you using loose phrases to try and interpret it the way YOU WANT, its not working very well, Bringing pain into the discussion was completly unrelated to the argument at hand.

    And i didnt say it was 9/10’s the juubi’s strength, did i say that? NO i did not, so dont try and put words in for me, that i didnt say.

    IF KILLING kushina, and thats the BIG IF, the fact is we dont know for sure, the kyuubi was already escaping at the time minato was faced with tobi, the ritual tobi did only sped up the process, and really all he did was put her in a location more suitable ro release the kyuubi. All he did was use his sharingan and pull it out, thats hardly a ritual.

    Minato screwed up? The hell he did. And no defending him doesnt contradict the manga, because everyone in the manga praises him, defending him only contradicts your point of view that he should just kill people and that might solve the problem it doesnt.

    Minato was thinking incredibly fast at the time he was saving his family and the village, he couldnt fight tobi, nobody can yet, so he needed to find a way to stop the kyuubi, without leaving another chance for tobi to use it, so he gave half the kyuubi for naruto, and put the rest in the Reaper along with minato, so that one day naruto would figure out how to kill the immortal tobi.

  68. okay, i read a few comments on whether Minato should’ve killed Kushina or not. and i say i have to agree w/ kisu that killing her would have saved the village a lot of trouble. and to prevent ppl from thinking Minato’s and evil monster that would kill his own wife for little-no reason, Minato could pass it off as either her dying in birth or her being killed by the masked man. so, logically there would b a good reason to do so, but the thing is, Minato does not = Spock. Minato has feelings and emotions, and is therefore not entirely logical, and as he loves Kushina, he would not do that (or at least have an incredibly hard time doing it). remember, love makes ppl total idiots, so don’t blame Minato for making the wrong choice. kisu, i garuntee that u could only think of that solution because u knew everything that was going to happen and had no emotional attachment to Kushina, neither of which applied to Minato. in other words, @ kisu, your logic works, for an emotionless robot that can see into the future

  69. did episode 168 come out yet?

  70. @kizu

    Errm, how in the world is destroying everyone the
    means to peace? Don’t you remember what Naruto said as he was on his way to Nagato. At least the village of Konoha has been trying to find middle ground with everyone, look at how things had been going with Sunagakure.

  71. @kisu Your preconceived ideas of the generic emotionless ninjas are worthless when it comes to this manga. Konoha is built on the will of fire. Meaning emotion has EVERY thing to do with this manga. What kind of hokage would minato be if he let his love and his son die in front of his eyes? He’d have no credibility, honor, and lose his status as a role model to the shinobi of the village. He did what he had to do to save the village in the end anyway at the cost of his own life. What more could you want?? But anyway if you believe that ninjas should be emotionless, your readin the wrong manga buddy.

  72. @lilmoe, no episode this week dude

  73. U know kakashi used to be the type of ninja u think minato should be kisu. .. but he realized that’s not the way to go even at age 13 or w/e he was. If a 13 year old realizes one needs to put others first (in minatos case his son) I would think you would. O and unlike u minato was not a psychic and didn’t know all this that we do. He is doing all of this at a moments notice.

  74. @Jpua, THANK YOU! But…
    “think of that solution because u knew everything that was going to happen ”
    It doesn’t take a genius (which Minato is) to figure out what Masky Mcmaskalot is after. The masked man just happens to show up when the seal is at its weakest and just happens to demand the Jinchuriki. It’s blatantly obvious that he wants the Kyubi. The stranger also had the Sharingan. The first thought that should have come to his mind is “protect the villagers” then the next thought should immediately be “kill the Kyubi and foil his plans”.

    Sakumo saved his friends, screwed his village
    To everyone, Sakumo = douche
    Minato saved his wife, screwed his village
    To everyone (except Danzo), Minato = hero

    That’s Konoha propaganda. They both did the same thing but because one was the Hokage, they covered it up. No one knows about what happened, so the Villagers just think the Kyubi’s attack was a freak occurrence and that Minato saved them. We’ve seen how malicious Konohanians can be, and if they knew what Minato did, then he wouldnt be a hero.

    @ripcord, remember what Tsunade said to Pain? “Konoha has done things we’re not proud of”. The whole point of the Pain arc was to show just how similar Konoha and the other Villages are.

    @Smartass, I’m not twisting manga evidence. The manga clearly says if Naruto died, the Kyubi would die. And you’re still not getting why I brought up Chibaku Tensei. Naruto would have been crushed inside the mini-moon and the seal was at its weakest. So if merely killing Naruto would allow the Kyubi to be released, it doesnt make sense that he transformed and saved Naruto. It would have not transformed and took back his 6tail chakra and let Naruto’s normal human body get crushed then be freed. Everything thus far points to Jinchuriki dying, Biju dying, the Kyubi even said it.

    @JJ, ninjas are SUPPOSED to be emotionless killers. Don’t you remember what Kakashi told Team 7? Don’t you remember what happened to Sakumo? Imagine what would have happened if Jiraiya had killed NAgato, Konan and Yahiko all those years ago? There would be no Akatsuki, Amegakure would still be a war-zone (becuz Hanzo was clearly a power hungry asshole) and Konoha wouldnt be destroyed. Minato abandoned basic ninja training.

    I reiterate, Zabuza is the only NINJA in this entire series. Itachi almost qualifies but his whole Sasuke-a-thon kills it.

  75. Where is it stated konoha is destroyed kisu? The village has been damaged but the main part of konoha is its people and most are still alive. And kakashi himself put his teammates/students above.the mission now. What were u getting at saying what did kakashi tell team 7?And how is minato supposed to know extraction o the kyuubi would kill the host or that killing the host would kill the kyuubi?

  76. @kisu
    No offence to you man but why do you read the manga when it seems everything just upsets you. a lot of stuff in this manga make it condradicts itself.

    Agree on if the host dies the beast dies. That was said a long time ago. that is why the fox would let Naruto use his powers. From words many chapters ago and I mean many chapter the fox told Naruto that he will let him use his power for him to survive.

    Disagree and I am only assuming. You do not have a family to protect of your own do you? No disrespect at all by say that. you have to put yourself in Minato’s shoes. Yes killing his wife would have stop Tobi”s plans but that meant two things. His wife is dead and now his son which Tobi would have most likely killed is dead and now you do have a village safe but at the cost of you own family. Would you kill your own flesh and blood at a moments notice? You not looking at what happened. You look at the beginning of the manga chapter as if this all happened in a span of 30 minutes this all happened in a span of maybe 20 to 40 seconds. I don’t think there is anyone alive now that could make a decision like that about his saving family in a hostage situation that fast unless you are throwing your own life away at that moment. An when he did react he didn’t know the trap Tobi left on Naruto.

    I agree he could have brought Naruto to someone he trusted and that would have gotten him to Kushina in time, Maybe to stop the fox, Maybe but you have to remember there would not be a manga if everything would have went the way you want it. no baby birth, no weak seal, no fox release, no fox rampage, no seal in baby, no Naruto manga or anime.

  77. @Token, I dont know, maybe its the fact that everytime a Biju is extracted from a Jinchuriki the Jinchuriki dies…or maybe you know, the fact that instead of letting Mito die with the Kyubi they extracted it (murdering her) and put it inside Kushina. Yeah, I think that was common knowledge. And Kakashi said a ninja must be willing to leave comrades behind, but then he gave his own little bullcrap opinion. Ninjas are tools, a client pays them to do a job, they should be able to do the job, even if a few tools get destroyed doing it.

  78. So u condemn minato for some deaths due to the attack and yet in in ur argument the ninja are just tools to be.destroyed?? I’m not sure which side o the fence ur on…..

  79. @ryu, what happened to ur badass pic of Ryu? Anyhoo, there could have still been a manga, just without the Kyubi. That’s besides the point. I’m thinking in-universe now. Minato wasn’t being logical, facts should take priority over emotions when you’re a leader:


  80. Nothing happened to the pic. I just was at another computer at work not my personnel.

    In-universe he is still a family man with emotions. Danzo from what I can tell is not a family man and if he did have a family, I can agree on one thing with you that he put emotions a side for the best decision for the village. But look at it every Hokage except Danzo was a family oriented man or woman. Yes Tsunade too being 1st and 2nd family member as well as the newly addition to he blood line Naruto. I know somethings just don’t make sense but what has made since in the manga since Orochimaru’s death? not much man..not much.

    On a lighter note yeah anything can be a manga but this would not be the Naruto manga we know and love or love to hate…in your case..lol

  81. @Token, you misunderstand. Ninjas are just tools, but NOT EVERYONE IN KONOHA IS A NINJA. Would u want poor Ichiraku and his daughter to die because a leader (that they didn’t even get to elect) decided to put his family above them? What about the elderly, the sick, the children? When Pain screwed them I had no problem with it because he had no obligation to them, but Minato does.

  82. @ryu, Vega kicks ass harder 😀

    “But look at it every Hokage except Danzo was a family oriented man or woman.”
    And every Hokage except Danzo screwed the Village over (except Tobirama, well he was a virgin, i.e. the only Hokage without a wife or to have no significance to the plot) lol

    But yeah, the manga would be dumb without that cute furry fox. In-universe however, Kishi should have come up with something better.

  83. Ryu Fan boy to the heart baby.

    Well I don’t think the 1st screw the village just Madara Uchiha, the real MU, but the other after the second Hokage yeah even Danzo. but you say he didn’t have time to screw the village….wait he did twice and he wasn’t even the Hokage


  84. @kisu

    ” every Hokage except Danzo screwed the Village over ”

    danzo screwed over the village more than anyone else in the village and it was always for personal gains. he was the one who had a hand in creating your favorite character the mass-murderer Pain. (i liked pain too but he was still a mass-murderer lol)


    and lets not forget this.


    i dont remember the chapter but he was also behind the orochimaru invasion because again he wanted to be hokage. unlike the other hokages danzo was arrogant enough to believe that everyone was expendable except himself.
    even the other kages knew how shady danzo was. face it if it was for him and the other two elders konoha would have lived in peace except the for when tobi/madara fought the first. im not saying the other hokages were perfect but their only human.

  85. @ryu1978

    my bad for reposting your link

  86. @ftw
    its all good. you gotta make your point too.

  87. @ Madzikage, Minato probably knew that this could be the only and last time he’d ever see his son so why not spend a few seconds with him damn! It shows by your comment that you would be one of those ninja who would die easily in battle because you don’t think you just rush into any situation without thinking! Strong ninja don’t rush in and “go nuts” they actually use their brains first!

  88. @ Kisu, you are just clueless, maybe you should join the army or something if you feel this way go and sacrifice yourself as a tool!
    ” When Pein screwed them he had no obligation to them but MInato does”.

    Well, Pein supposedly is a God and has an took on the obligation to bring peace to the world and he just wants to destroy it over and over until they learn Peace!

  89. @ Kisu, you also said that you wouldn’t be mad that Madara did something to someone you knew in the past, he had to do something to you directly you wouldn’t be mad! Well, didn’t Madara Kill his mother by extracting the bijuu and destroyed any kind a relationship he could have had with her and didn’t he use the Kyuubi to kill his dad and didn’t he just try to kill him as a child and isn’t he threatening his life and his village and the people of the village now! Come on, what does someone have to do to make you want to kick their ass, or are you one of those losers who allows someone to kick your ass!

  90. @kisu

    I agree that Pain did say what he said to Tsunade, but Pain’s point was that Konoha didn’t realize or didn’t care that other nations had suffered. I think that Naruto has transcended above that and realized that everyone is suffering as a result of the fighting and might makes right attitude. This is why Nagato backed off and entrusted the future to Naruto, because it held promise to the end of the cycle.

    Naruto would not have been able to make that transcendance without Kakashi & J-man’s teachings, which wouldn’t have happened without Minato & Sarutobi’s attitudes, which wouldn’t have happened without Hashirama’s belief in peaceful nations.

    If you don’t believe in those things in the above paragraph, then I don’t see how you can believe in the path Naruto is taking, and I think you will be sorely disappointed with anything else that happens in this manga.

    And about Minato, perhaps it uses an amount of chakra proportional to the distance he travels, and so he can’t move quite so instantaneously over large distances. We don’t know anything about his chakra reserves.

    About Danzo, he wasn’t selfish in terms of wanting power. Initially it appeared that he was, but in the end (in his death) we learned that he wanted to protect Konoha at all costs and he believed that he was the only one who could do it properly, so it was more like hubris than him being selfish. I don’t like the way he was going about it, but I pity him for having to live in the shadows to protect his country.

    kisu, you also say that Sakumo’s actions were a complete mistake, but that is completely the opposite of the lesson we are meant to learn from Kakashi Gaiden. You are trying to rewrite the manga, but if you look at the plot from beginning to end (I know I’ve said this already but I have to say it again), Kishimoto is progressing toward a lasting peace brought about by love, not might.

  91. @Flash, in our world soldiers arent tools. In the Naruverse, ninjas are tools. There’s no going around it. They say completing mission comes before everything else. Every Genin knows what they’re getting in to.

    “Strong ninja don’t rush in and “go nuts” they actually use their brains first!”
    Hohoho, in that case Minato should have used his brain and get the Jinchuriki out of there lol

    “destroyed any kind a relationship he could have had with her ”
    Exactly. He has no relationship with her. A child in foster care wouldnt go crazy if he met the man that put him in foster care in the first place. You’re making this easier than it should be Yellow 🙂

    @ftw, Danzo didnt exist in Part 1and had nothing to do with Oro. In fact, he sent Sai to kill Sasuke and screw Oro over. As for that link you posted, Danzo isnt obligated to use his private militia to protect Konoha. He was looking out for the Village’s best interests at the time as well. The fact that Hashirama’s teachings are ruining Konoha is the reason he stayed underground. Had he defended the village, Tsunade would still be Hokage and another powerful ninja would have invaded. He thought that it was best for a new line of thinking to run Konoha.

    Now its time to read ripcord’s

  92. @ripcord, story-wise, I love the path Naruto is taking (becuz its the same path Nagato gave Jiraiya), but I only blast that path when comparing it to real life, where only might makes right. But as for Hashirama, the only complaint I have towards him is the fact that he gave out the biju instead of killing them. Sure the “peace” may have not been set up, but it’d save more lives in the long run. The thing I have against Konoha is simple. They act like they’re above it all. When in reality, they’re no different from all the other Villages- scratch that, the other Villages actually try to protect the innocent civilians in their walls.

    Good comment though ripcord, I give you 11 out of 11 for it. Why 11? Because I like to go one step beyond

  93. Sorry Kisu I am in the military stations in Texas you can guess where and we are tools, trust me. the world may see us different but we are like does ninjas in the Naruverse, sorry but its the truth. Our motto is mission always comes first and believe me when I say this despite our love for our families we are force to do things we do not want to do.

    Also when someone says something like “but those are necessary sacrifice for us. in order for me to become hokage.” So you going to let your village be destroyed, nearly every ninja in your village die with lessens you military strength. and have your citizens wiped out so you can become a leader of nothing. like the ninja said to him “it’ll be meaningless if you’re in charge, but the village and the people are gone.” the bull crap he said about Tsunade is what I just said bull carp. a big heap of it. Yeah later we see he just wants to protect his village but you see what that go him, Dead just like every other hokage died or nearly died for. protecting their village. He want to use might to bring peace. If the Sage of the Six Paths want peace though love then it is a teaching that should have been followed from the beginning but Danzo choose force lie the Uchiha.

    And not helping your village, the village you want to protect so bad be completely destroyed so you can become the leader, is to me selfish no matter then reason going about it was completely selfish. If it was not for Naruto Uzumaki the son of the man you feel made too many mistakes come in a rescue everyone and change Nagato’s heart. Danzo would be leading a village of his own “private army” and maybe a few people that would soon realize Danzo’s forceful ways and become missing nin or rogue nins. and a village so vulnerable to attacks Konoha would be wipe of the map. So look at that you way of think yuld work as it does for the Raikage and old man Kage (not looking his name up now) But Konoha has be that way for at less over 80 years. how will one man change that during his short term as Hokage.

    Danzo has taken Uchiha eyes, a clan he had destroyed and the DNA of the1st, a man who’s teachings he dislikes and got them implanted into his body. What for? Himself, come on you dontT think he did it for the village? HaHaHa…lol. Killed a message toad that was sent to bring back Naruto so the Akatsuki can’Tt have the Fox which back fired and Naruto saved the day again. Danzo has made just as many mistake if not more then Minato and third.

    Sorry I do not see how a man who wouldn’t help his “precious” village from being destroyed be a better chose.

    Fox attack, estimated over 90 % nearly total annihilation cause by some of Minato’s actions, I agree but that is about it, saved by Minato’s actions. can’t say how bad the destruction was until next chapter or the one after.

    Pain attack, 98% very damn close to total annihilation, cause by the third war and Danzo actions when he help Hanzo kill Nagato’s group and forced his friend to die by his hands. save by Naruto, son of Minato, Danzo’s action during this total selfish and unacceptable.

  94. Also Nagato was resentful of the Leaf until Jiariya came in and helped Nagato and his friend see not every leaf ninja is evil. The boy may have been the next Sage if not for jealously and brute force that Danzo help cause. direct or indirect. that is a lot of mistakes in Danzo’s life that hurt the village badly. So Minato saving his son first and not kill his wife may be a mistake but Danzo’S mistakes are just as bad.

  95. sorry for misspelled words, not the best typist as you can see.

  96. @ryu I get what you’re saying, I really do. But here’s what I’m saying. Danzo was looking towards the future. Why would he sacrifice his men to help Konoha and when its all said and done, they’ll continue walking down the same path to ANOTHER invasion. I mean over a 16 year period they’ve been invaded THREE TIMES! That’s way too much lol.

    But I think we should end this discussion here. Most of you aren’t thinking logically so this will never end 🙂

  97. @ryu, in the military, do they tell you to abandon your comrades? Ninjas are tools, you aren’t. Your life is valuable because people in our world a tree huggers, people in the Naruverse really dont give a crap about human life lol

  98. you right let it end. everyone has their own mind set lol. The never leave a fallen comrade that is the one of the few things that separates real life military to fictional military. we try not to leave anyone dead or alive.

  99. Hey,
    I’ve enjoyed listening to your twisted bantering and all, but i fear I must remind you of something rather …. Obvious….
    Minato is the hokage.
    What hokage would purposely weaken his entire village’s defences to spite one man?
    Why would he kill the kyuubi, konoha’s tailed beast, the thing that keeps it one of the 5 great nations, and prevents other nations (great or small) from attacking?

    In the end, Killing the kyuubi would not be an option for the hokage. It could, in itself start another great war. Note that at this time the last great war had just ended. there would still be much animosity toward konoha, as well as other nations, by said nations.

    And you would have to think, Minato being hokage and all (the strongest man in the village) he would feel it possible to save everyone. cause he is the hokage. if anyone in the village could do it, he could. and pride dictates that he would try.
    thoughts to ponder

  100. @ Kisu, “a child in foster care wouldn’t go crazy at the man who put him in foster care”.

    That’s a totally different situation, Naruto wasn’t abandoned or put in foster care, his parents was taken and killed by someone who tried and still is trying to kill him! Youare over simplifying the situation!

    What you want Naruto to just ignore Madara?

    “He should have used his brain and got the jinchuuriki out of there”
    The man, manage to save his son from getting stabbed and from getting blown up! Did you even see the manga the explosion destroyed the entire place by that time Madara had already tooken Kushina so he took his son to safety first.

    You wanted him to go into to a battle holding his newborn son? He took his son somewhere safe which is what Kushina wanted and he went to get her but by then Madara had already extracted the Kyuubi! You think he took his time, damn it’s manga for all we know he was there for a split second.

  101. @ Kisu, no they don’t tell you to abandon you comrades but you are suppose to do everything possible to complete the mission! In Naruto the ninjas lives are also valuable, what you are talking about are the old ways of the ninja! That’s what you saw during the Great ninja wars, in part one and two when have you seen a Konoha nin purposely abandon their comrade if they are in trouble?

  102. @KIsu, Madzikage,, I completely agree 100% with Jathropoet, and actually I said the same thing you Kisu and Madzikage, but you don’t get what being a Kage means!

    Why would a Kage destroy their bijuu, dramatically weakening the entire nation to stop one man? Even if the man did get his hands on the Kyuubi which he did, there is still a chance to stop it which MINATO DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  103. @ Kisu: I fully agree with everything u say, I mean lets consider a few known knows:
    1. Konoha is an oligarchy ruled by those who finance the village i.e. Ninjas.
    2. The job of a ninja is to fight.
    3. The ninja must project those who can’t protect themselves, i.e. That ramen dude et al.
    4. Kill the jinjuuriki kill the bijuu.
    5. Even tho minato didn’t kill kushina, chapter 501 proved that his poor judgment and time wasting (i mean really, why waste ur time answering questions, tucking in and more importantly putting on ur kage coat-even the masked man said he knew of u-pointless) was the cause of the attack. Factor in some good judgement anytime management and (aaron per my previous comment) the kyuubi attack could of been thwarted even IF he didn’t kill kushina.
    Minato = poor form. Get of his nuts!
    PS: Konoha propaganda has idiolised the kage for too long. I vote ramen dude for 6th hokage! Viva Democracy!

  104. @madzikage
    Yeah don´t bother answering any questions just barch in with out trying to analyzing the enemy that a smart move…

  105. The hole “abond you camrads for the sakje of the mission” is in the past now the new generation of ninja has changed the rules by not let your comrads die, so it´s just something every one have to accept

  106. Actually the ninja would never try and let their comrades die. Think about it less ninja= less ninja to take on difficult missions= less money it was probably on in situations where completion of the mission such as intercepting an enemy care package or destroying an enemy bridge that the mission became more important than individual lives.
    @madz and kisu: I have a feeling that with the fall of the eddy village, it had been long since planned that naruto become the next host. When you think about he’s possibly the last uzamaki so why not have a plan b incase someone where to release kyuubi or if the seal brome durning or right after childbirth. This is a situation where Minato acted correctly but I respect your opinion on his actions but I don’t think that you give him the credit he deserves.
    P.S. I’m not trying to force this down your throats so no need to continue the argument. I just wanted to get my 2 cents in.

  107. Don’t te elders and such decide who the hokage will be? I’m pretty sure that is democracy… and losing the kyuubi is pretty much like losing the nuclear bomb that is keeping other nations from destroying and taking over your.village. need to look to the future and do what is best for the.villages.future as well as present.

  108. My oppinion is this:

    Killing Kushina would have been the wrong thing to do because the Kyubbi is better for the village than the few lives he took because he is obviously stronger than those shinobi and the only clear purpose in destroying him is to save those lives. The other reason, to keep it out of Madara’s hands, is one more based on hindsight since we think we know his plans, because the Kyubbi can always be retreived and resealed later. It being released clearly isn’t the best outcome, but it’s better than killing Kushina and the kyubbi needlessly. HOWEVER, I have never been much of a minato fan. When I first heard about his FTG jutsu I thought it was cool, but then Madara came along and has a version of that jutsu that is better in every aspect. But that was fine since we had never seen him fight, so while he might be known for one thing, he might have other cool jutsu (like say Rasengan, DDCS, and Toad summoning) and he might be REALLY good at using those A-S Rank jutsu. For instance, FTG isn’t at all that much of a disadvantage against Madara because with the proper set up it can launch attacks from multiple directions and even fool the sharingan. But this ISN’T what Minato did, instead of having multiple tags in potential battle areas and some in strategic locations such as the hospital and Hokage mansion, he placed one in a safehouse and one on Kushina. Neither of these are BAD places (and the one on Kushina surprised me a bit, in a good way) to have some but he could have had seals EVERYWHERE since he’s the Hokage… STILL even if he had done this, his tactical decisions weren’t that great for a Hokage if you review them with a critical eye. Madara told Minato that he wanted Kushina and would kill Naruto if Minato didn’t back away, so Minato did essentially that, trading Naruto’s saftey for Kushina’s which in itself isn’t a terrible decision, except that it’s exactly what Madara wanted. The thing that gets me is that he took the time to tuck in Naruto while his wife was in imediate danger. In this time, Madara was able to negate any helpful seals by transfering Kushina to his own location, not to mention extract the Kyubbi. This means that at that sight the only seal was the one on Kushina’s belly, so when Minato took her back he took the only seal at that location away with him, so unless he dropped one off screen, he has to go back on foot (which is why all of those other ninja got there before him, though it might also be from fighting Madara)

  109. @kisu “in our world soldiers aren’t tools”

    dude, come on, don’t make a stupid comment like that on a naruto forum. have you ever been to this thing called boot camp? the entire point of it is to make you obey your sergeant and officers WITHOUT question. soildiers are nothing but tools for the political agenda of some old dude in D.C., and at least war now is vastly different from once upon a time when we would literally line up across from each other in a field and fire. Of course our soldiers have value, but within the military they’re the tools of war.

    anyway…like you, I don’t believe the world will suddenly join hands and dance in a circle to rainbows,unicorns, and puppies, but your point about the ninja world needing to be emotionless doesn’t seem to grasp the message of the manga. The reason why the ninja world ended up the way it did was because of the human nature of selfishness, greed, and hatred….in this manga…the Uchiha. It’s the same old story as it goes back to the very first “son” of the Sage….see also: Cain & Able. That’s not something in the human nature that’s about to just fade away just because Naruto wants it to. It’s not really a message of love…because as we’ve seen, it really isn’t possible to love someone who’s killed someone dear to you. His path is one of trying to understand his enemy and come to some means of agreement and forgiveness…and not meaningless revenge as Sasuke does. As we’ve seen, that doesn’t give him closure, and it doesn’t solve a problem…it just builds on itself and makes the hatred of the world that much greater.

    when minato turned around before taking kushina away, you don’t think that look he gave tobi was full hate? that he didn’t want to kill him on the spot? but he did what he had to because his ninja way is to protect, not destroy. It’s really laughable when anyone says that he should have killed kushina to foil madara’s plans. Yea, he was going to kill his wife immediately after she gave birth to his first child because he gave up and assumed he was already powerless, as the most powerful Kage, against an evil dude with a sharingon whose powers he didn’t even know about yet. The reason Minato is a hero of the leaf is because of his will to protect, whether that’s his village, his wife, or his son.

  110. Man I said I was done with this. You guys just couldn’t leave well enough alone could you? lol

    “That’s a totally different situation, Naruto wasn’t abandoned or put in foster care”
    For my purposes, its the same situation. In both cases, a child has no connection whatsoever to their biological parents.

    “What you want Naruto to just ignore Madara?”
    Did I say that? All I’m saying is all of this doesn’t seem like enough motivation for him to truly want to snap Madara in half. Go back to the Pain fight, Naruto’s determination to beat Pain only reached its peak when he SAW Pain destroy Hinata (lol).

    “Why would a Kage destroy their bijuu”
    Simple. Why keep a weapon that can be turned back at you and annihilate your entire village. The moment Madara showed up Kushina became a liability. If Minato couldnt kill her, he could have at least teleported her to safety. lol Surely the Biju is more important than a useless (nothing special about him at that time) infant? To save one, you’d have to sacrifice the other because he even saw that this masked man was no pushover (he took out the Anbu guards without alerting them, then took out Sarutobi’s wife and took Naruto all in an instant).

    ““He should have used his brain and got the jinchuuriki out of there”
    The man, manage to save his son from getting stabbed and from getting blown up! ”
    If he wants to save someone, save the Jinchuriki!

    “When you think about he’s possibly the last uzamaki”
    Not necessarily, Minato could just go buy some Ninja Viagra and make a few more Uzumakis.

    “The hole “abond you camrads for the sakje of the mission” is in the past now”
    No it isnt. Only Naruto wants this. And as we’ve seen, the Konoha (11or 10 or 12 w/e their number is now) are more than willing to take out Sasugay. The abandoning of comrades will only end when the Village system ends. Otherwise, why would anyone pay these Villages if they’re gonna put their personnel above whatever task you PAY them to complete? It’s the money from these missions that keeps the Villages afloat.

    “The reason Minato is a hero of the leaf is because of his will to protect, whether that’s his village, his wife, or his son.”
    And most importantly, the fact that no one knows what happened that night lol.

    “soildiers are nothing but tools for the political agenda of some old dude in D.C.”
    Haha, in our world we deem human life as valuable. In the Naruverse they literally TELL you to leave your comrades behind. That’s the point I was trying to make by calling ninjas tools.

    “Killing Kushina would have been the wrong thing to do because the Kyubbi is better for the village than the few lives he took because he is obviously stronger than those shinobi”
    Well Konoha could do what its most adept at, cover up the fact that the Kyubi is dead. And the Biju really don’t deter war. Suna felt pretty comfortable invading Konoha with their Biju even though they knew Konoha had the most powerful Biju in its possession.

    “Don’t te elders and such decide who the hokage will be? I’m pretty sure that is democracy…”
    No its not. It would be like in our world only a certain elite set of people get the right to vote. That’s a farce of a democracy.

    “Actually the ninja would never try and let their comrades die.”
    Of course they wouldnt TRY and let them die. In the ninja world, missions come first. So if your friend got stuck under a boulder while enemy ninja were approaching while your on a mission, you’d have to leave him behind, complete the mission and then hope he’s still alive.

    On Jinchuriki in general. Female Jinchuriki are STUPID! What genius had the idea to make female jinchuriki (I bet its the same idiot that decided the Byakugan should be used for close combat)? Male Jinchuriki don’t have that little birth weakness so it makes more sense to only use them. *sigh*

    Btw, isnt it funny how Nagato ended up in this VERY same situation Kakashi talked about (nice writing on Kishi’s part) lol

  111. @ kisu, i feel the tru point about ninja’s being “tools” is that they’re willing to die for what’s important to them, not kill off what’s important to them just cuz they’re useless. even Orochimaru showed that he has some kind of heart when it comes to this matter: when Kimmimaro was sick, paralysed, and all out useless, Oro didn’t just pull the plug, he had Kabuto spend time w/ Kimmimaro making sure he was still alive. this costed resources, time, and Oro’s best medic, he was willing to sacrafice so much just to keep one of his men alive when he had no forseeable uses (provided, Kimmimaro DID become important later on, but that would’ve been impossible to tell considering he was paralysed, coughing up blood, and feeling useless).
    not to mention how lousy that scene where Konan is held hostage would’ve been if everyone had the views u have:
    Hanzo: if u don’t kill your leader [Yahiko], i will kill this girl
    Nagato: okay, sorry Konan, but, yeah, we’d b pretty much screwed over if Yahiko died
    Yahiko: yeah Konan, no offense or anything, but you r pretty useless
    *(Nagato and Yahiko walk away)*
    Hanzo: uhm, that went differently in my head. oh well, guess i should try a new tactic
    *(kills Konan and Nagato doesn’t even care)*

  112. My guess about the female jinchurriki is that they are better able to contain the tailed beast (at least the females from the Uzumaki clan). This is just an assumption, but it would explain it.

    And about how Nagato ended up in the situation Kakashi described, it is ironic, however Kakashi later tells Team 7:

    This is the beginning of the end of a broken system. The ninja system only brought temporary peace and circular suffering, and it needed to be changed. As they say (I believe this is a Japanese saying), an avalanche begins by the falling of a small stone.

    I am glad, kisu, that you agree with my argument above, because it is the argument that Kishimoto has been trying to make for the whole manga, and by agreeing with it, then you contradict yourself in saying might makes right.

  113. @ripcord, oh I dont agree with you. I just said you have a good argument. The fact is, you see what I’m saying. Everything goes back to the crappy ninja system. It needs to be burned down and started over, otherwise its just going to be the same thing happening over and over. I dont think might makes right. I only like Pain’s plan because it would completely dismantle the ninja system and the fact that Pain didnt fall into the “I am evil I want to rule the world” cliche because in the end he said he’d give the countries the weapon so they’d use t against each other.

    @Jpua, Yahiko was pretty dumb t sacrifice himself like that though. I assume he’s at least as skilled as a high ranking Jonin (considering Hanzo used a dirty trick to take him out instead of outright killing him in a battle), so he and Nagato could have taken out a lot of the guys there, so what if Konan dies? It’s not like she has the Rinnegan (Nagato) or the drive to change the world (Yahiko). Bah, I still like him anyway 😀

  114. @ kisu, well, just think how boring all of Shippuden would’ve been if Nagato was like the way you’re saying ninjas should be, w/out him having the exact same emotions as Minato, then Pein (your personal favorite character in this manga) would not exist

  115. oh, forgot to mention the whole, “w/out the Gedo Mazo (which was first summoned by Pein), then the Akatsuki would not have any (known) way to capture Biju, thus making the plot of Shippuden practically null”

  116. @Nemo, yeah it would be pretty dull. But Pain isnt my favorite character, Nagato is. And im speaking from an in-universe perspective. When you think about it, a lot of these characters don’t think too logically lol.

    now im done with this.

  117. @kisu

    But you forget that our perspective is different than theirs, you have to keep in mind what information they had at the time.

    It’s like us saying “hey J-man there are six bodies not 3, so watch out!” at the beginning of his fight, but he didn’t know that and so he was at a disadvantage.

    The same goes for Minato vs. Tobi, he didn’t know Tobi was an Uchiha or at least had a sharingan.

    I admit though that there are moments where characters have made bad decisions (Hiruzen with Orochimaru), but I wouldn’t condemn Hiruzen from just that one moment.

  118. @ripcord, read one of my above comments about that very same ting u mentioned. “you have to keep in mind what information they had at the time.”. It was a reply to Jpua.

  119. @ Kisu, I finally agree with you on something, I am done with this, I can see that you aren’t going to actually think like a normal rational person instead of a hitler like dictator with you may not be even that because Hitler would never have destroy his most powerful weapon for a few ninja who are “tools” like you said.

  120. It’s like you two Kisu and Madzikage don’t listen to of the good points we all make, I have been reading through the other comments to see if others agree and they all are making some great points but you are not getting it, it’s like talking to the deaf! Not to insult you it’s just funny!LOL

  121. I think people may be on topic but slowly drifting away here… :S

  122. ok i was sittin here thinkin, what if naruto hooks up wit some1 from the eddy village rite, and they teach him some new seals that r special to his clan. and from the last chapter or 2 in goin to assume that naruto possessive the sages body. if this is so could naruto have the juubi place inside of him?

    also with tobis plan, is he tryin to make the juubi body and all or just its chraka. cause if he wants the body to then u would have to destroy the moon which would mess up the whole tsukuyomi on the moon plan?

  123. @ Itachi_4_Hokage

    I presume, that once he gathers all the 9 tailed beasts together they will morph back into the juubi, which he will then attempt to become jinchuriki of…..

    And naruto learning seals? highly unlikely because the people from his clan are scattered. But yea i suppose somthing along those lines could happen…
    But i dont think he can play host to the juubi specifically because that would require the 9 tails ripped out of him which will leave him almost dead.

  124. “what if naruto hooks up wit some1 from the eddy village rite” I’m pretty sure that’s incest O_O. I didnt read the rest of your comment, I just HAD to take that out of context for the laughs lol

    @Yellow, madzi and I could say the same to you guys. We’re thinking highly logically, NOT with emotions

  125. or you know, maybe after he has all the Tailed Beasts, he’ll use their collective chakra and summon the Jubi’s body from the moon then use Gedo Mazo to transfer the souls of the Biju back to the Jubi…..just a thought >_>

  126. In retrospect, Naruto is the most haxorz character in this manga lol

    1. Sage Mode constantly replenishes his stamina and gradually heals him
    2. The Kyubi boosts all his abilities (and whatever stamina he uses up, Sage Mode could replenish it) and instantly heals him
    3. Now we find out he has an unusually strong lifeforce and long lifespan (that’s the second best kekkei genkai if u ask me).

    I guess he wasnt such a loser after all. Kishi lied to use back in Part 1…

  127. Naruto has his flaws to tho…
    And i think your forgettin saskue…. EMS, Kekkei Genkai sharingan. considered a genious, was using element manipulation when he was in the ACADEMY!

  128. @shinobi, I’m not talking about commbat here. i’m talking about longevity. Sasuke’s techniques’ll kill him eventually, but Naruto can spam high powered moves and still outlive everyone he knows lol

  129. @kisu no minato couldn’t make more uzumakis because he was namekazi. Other then that I did say it was just my spin on things not an attack on yours. And god please don’t make minato a ninja god but give him ED as his weakness I don’t think they make Ninja Viagra maybe “hardon no jutsu” works though”

  130. @Eaglesfan, I meant he could knock Kushina up a few more times *cough20cough*. People HAVE been known to have over a dozen kids, and with an extra long lifespan…oooh the possibilities are endless :).

    Btw, hardon no jutsu works just like Kirin, its only good in one specific situation (only useful with Anko, Kurenai BEFORE the kid, Mizukage and maybe Ino) and useless in all others. Maybe a bottle of Ninzyte could help Minato out. Ninzyte, for natural male enhancement. Make’s your kunais longer 😉 😉 😉

  131. kisu kisu kisu, thats all im reading!!! you are a very controversial charactor, but at least it makes for entertaining reading 🙂 you have many on the offense/defense. i agree naruto is has a strong advantage over sasuke. sasuke will eventually shrivel up and die like the snake he truely is 😛 i stll don’t understand why itachi died for sasuke… what a waste… a part of me is hopeful that itachi is still alive and the reason sasuke bet him was from one of those body transfers!!! explain the mysterious illness! hey stranger things have happened! 😀

  132. I really wish the world was on one time zone, I keep missing the comments when they get interesting.

    As previously mentioned, we should base our judgements by what makes sense within the Naruverse context, not what we would do in the real world. Minato could have easily done more to actually protect his village.

    I mean seriously there were no ANBU that were at Fo & Torune’s level (capable of at least sparring with madara)? Additionally, with FTG (as someone mentioned) why weren’t his tags strategically positioned around the village, particularly on a night were the chances of ‘shit hitting the fan’ was EXTREMELY high.
    The reason I complain is in the vain hope that perhaps Kishi will read these blogs and redeem minato at chapter 502/3 by showing him institute a proper battle strategy.

    As an aside I think the whole bijuu distribution was done to prevent war by constantly making other villages either occupy resources to containing the bijuu and trying to control it while assuming the other villages had control.
    Finally, I really hope the strength of the kyuubi is shown to be nuts bcoz E (killerbee’s brother) and that squad of kumo ninja were constantly fighting and taking downtime hachibi! I need a LOGICAL reason behind minato’s death.

  133. Ok kisu that make more sense now. I was still assuming you meant kill kushina and let naruto due I was a little confused. And there’s no need for ninzyte when there is the forbidden jutsu; big dick henge no jutsu. It’s kage level and on the scroll right after multi-kage bushin.:)

  134. @ kisu on who the “hardening no jutsu” would work on, i dunno, based off of a filler arc which showed Hinata naked, part 1 Hinata ≥ Shippuden Ino o_0 . plus w/ how often Hinata faints, it’s not like it’ll b that much of a challenge, lol, imma pervert, but so is almost every male character (and some female ones) in the series, so i guess i’m not TOO wierd

  135. @kisu

    Actually, Sage Mode only lasts as long as the ninja has regular chakra to balance out the natural energy. As soon as they use up all their normal chakra, no more sage mode (unless they want to turn into a frog).

    That being said, Sage Mode does add power and longevity to Naruto’s battles because it adds to the amount of chakra Naruto has available by 33%.

    As to Naruto not being special and that being touted by Kishimoto, I wouldn’t go that far. Everyone doubted Naruto because they thought he was no one special, and so he had to earn their respect based on his own merits. Also, he believed in his own strength, not his lineage (that he didn’t know).

    Sasuke on the other hand believed in his lineage and so he thought he should be better than anyone else and he assumed that since Naruto was just some runt there was no way Naruto should be better than him, this was hard for Sasuke to accept.

    Now we come to find that everyone was wrong, that Naruto does have a high lineage. This does not take away from Naruto’s character, he still earned the respect he got from his fellow villagers and after he learned he was Minato’s son, he didn’t (like I thought he might) run through Konoha shouting “Hey I’m the 4th Hokage’s Son!”

    People were always going “Naruto should have a kekkei genkai” and I always thought it would be a bad idea. This does explain Yamato’s comment about Naruto’s ability to withstand the 9-tails


    I think him being an Uzumaki is the only reason Naruto can handle being the 9-tails jinchurriki. I’m not sure it gives him any other advantages yet, but we will see.

  136. @kisuzachi
    The kyuubi isn´t much help in longlivity … http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/291/11/

  137. @p, Sage Mode’s healing properties basically restores whatever damage the Kyubi could do

    @ripcord, my main point was that Naruto can outlive every character in this series and use the most life-threatening jutsus but come out a-ok. Also, ever heard of natural selection? If two people are special, they’re child is more likely to be special than two normal people’s child. So, Naruto was always special, but thought he wasnt, which kinda beats all the stuff in Part 1 becuz we know he has genius blood in him.

  138. @Nemo, I WAS gonna suggest Hinata for her big boo-err…her huge two eyes 😉 But then idk, those Byakugan white eyes just look plain creepy to me, and the Byakugan looks even creepier (well, it looks creepy on girls +o( or am I the only one who thinks that?)

    Eaglesfan, omg. Taju Kage Bunshin, I’ pretty sure Kushina would die from that even though she’s an Uzumaki O_O

  139. @ kisu, well, i think Hinata’s eyes look kinda pretty when they’re not activated (where the vains r visible), but i guess we have different tastes

  140. @kisu

    It isn’t that Naruto wasn’t special that made him great… we knew he was special, and I guess we all thought it was only that he never gave up and somehow found a way to win. It’s true that that was the exciting part in Part I, but I think that he has shown his humility by not flaunting his lineage, and I don’t expect him to, now that he knows about it.

    I’m not saying that the kyuubi helps with longevity, my point is that he can only withstand the kyuubi BECAUSE of the Uzumaki longevity and strong chakra. Without his lineage, he would not be able to handle the destructive kyuubi chakra.

    On a side note, I don’t think it makes any sense that Naruto does not come from great parents, people often fantasized that Naruto was Minato’s son before that was revealed, and I don’t think it takes anything from what Naruto has accomplished.

  141. I hate to say this but, does the Sharingan take away from what SASUKE accomplishes? Yep it sure does. Naruto now essentially HAS a kekkei genkai, and for me, it kinda kills the whole hardwork thing kishi was feeding us for most of the manga. He’s essentially saying that you HAVE to be born special to BE special. I mean, Ebisu and Iruka are doomed to a life on the sidelines because they dont have uber parents lol

  142. Naruto does not have a kekkai genkai where is everyone getting this from? Kushina had special chakra to control a bijuu but Naruto didn’t inherited it. I am glad he didn’t because he already have to many chakras!

  143. The only trait he inherited from his clan is probably life longevity and maybe he’ll learn the sealing techniques! It’s just like the Nara clan, it’s just a technique past down from generation to generation!

  144. A kekkei genkai is a special trait that cant be copied or learned but can only be attained through genetics, so Naruto’s longevity IS a kekkei genkai.

  145. 1. Naruto’s greatest victories came because of his dark side giving into the kyuubi.
    2. We were fed the lie that hard work, determination and the will of fire=strong ninja. But now we know its purely genetic.
    3. Because of the aforementioned points, we can conclude that:
    i) Naruto hasn’t relied on his own strength as part1 made us believe.
    ii) that branch byakugan dude (forgot his name) was right all along, greatness is destined thru ur genes, your place in life is determined by your genes.
    Consequently, Naruto will become hokage (probably the 6th) because he was destined to be, not thru hard work, etc, but for the same reason tsunade is kage… Good genes!

    PS: I’ve always believed that’s good to know Kishi finally sees reason

  146. 1. Naruto’s greatest victories came because of his dark side giving into the kyuubi.
    2. We were fed the lie that hard work, determination and the will of fire=strong ninja. But now we know its purely genetic.
    3. Because of the aforementioned points, we can conclude that:
    i) Naruto hasn’t relied on his own strength as part1 made us believe.
    ii) that branch byakugan dude (forgot his name) was right all along, greatness is destined thru ur genes, your place in life is determined by your genes.
    Consequently, Naruto will become hokage (probably the 6th) because he was destined to be, not thru hard work, etc, but for the same reason tsunade is kage… Good genes!

    PS: I’ve always believed that. It’s good to know Kishi finally sees reason

  147. @ madzi, first off, that’s a double post (but u probably figured that out by the time u read this), second, i’m actually kinda glad Kishi’s doing this too, cuz this means that Hinata (born to the strongest thriving clan in Konoha) IS in fact destined for greater things than Sakura (who has absolutly no known blood ties to anybody cool). in fact, now it’s completely logical to argue that in the FUTURE Hinata > Neji will b uncontravertable (as Hinata=Main Family, Neji=Branch Family). glad we’re on the same page even if that’s not what u meant. note, i don’t feel like debating this issue on Hinata’s greatness in potential, and i was speaking in the future tense anyways, so that has nothing to do w/ the current Hinata, and is just speculation/theory based on recently unveiled info on u need good genes, not hard work (or maybe a combo?) to get places. Sakura has lame-ass genes, and Neji has good genes, yet they’re inferior to Hinata’s 😉

  148. It’s not mcuh of a Kekkai Genkai to me, yeah it’s kinda kool that it’s hard to kill them but it’s no Sharingan!LOL

  149. @Nemo, there’s just 1 prob with your argument. Asuma is Sarutobi’s son, and is one of THE most pathetic jonins in the series lol. It all comes down to genetics + luck, and Hinata doesn’t have any luck

  150. @Flash, I’d rather live for a century than have creepy red eyes any day 😀

  151. Actually, kisu, he was one powerful ninja being one of the 12 guards we just adjust to the naruto, kakashi, itachi, nagato level ninja and forgot that there are a few levels btwn teh uber pwnage and nubz.
    @Nemo: hinata has the stronger byakugan and I have a feeling twin lion fists are more powerful than 8 trigrams 64 palms

  152. what about FTG??? i think that minato learnt it after learning seals through kushina! is it possible for naruto to learn the FTG?

  153. @kisu

    It’s true that we didn’t see much from Asuma, but I think he was most revered in his Wind chakra channeling abilities and that is what made him dangerous. He actually did get a killing blow on Hidan. We only got a glimpse at what he could do, and I feel like that’s a shame.

    The only battle we got to see him in was against Hidan and we all know that was not a fair fight. He wasn’t the smartest ninja (which is good that he had Shikamaru on his team), but I think he excelled in strength. Hard to see how that shines against an opponent where strength doesn’t matter.

  154. Don’t forget kisu asuma actually got killing blows in on hidan but thanks to kakuza hidan got his head reattached and raring to go again.

  155. Wow. After all these comments no one has even realized a very important part in this chapter. Want to know what it is?

    Madara’s genjustu on the Kyuubi!!!

    There was a past speculation on how in order to control the Kyuubi you had to have the EMS. As we can see in this chapter you don’t need an EMS. Also there was another speculation on how Madara couldn’t control the Kyuubi to do as he wishes and attack what Madara wants him to attack. As we can see in this chapter also when Madara is lol seducing the Kyuubi with his Sharigan the Fox’s eyes alter into a dilated pupil state. It didn’t turn back after he attacked Kushina. It’s still dilated. That makes me convinced that he is under the full control of Madara and also it doesn’t limit the power of him by constantly controlling him. This guy is a badass.

  156. Actually kagami I pointed that out in the first comment

  157. @token

    Also, I think that Kishimoto was attempting to show just how powerful Akatsuki was, that they were able to take out someone as strong as Asuma. The mistake on Kishimoto’s part though: the only other fight we saw Asuma in (vs. Kisame & Itachi) he didn’t get to do too much.

  158. @kisuzachi
    Jiyria says the exact oppsite att what you do about the kyubi, and who do you think knows more, you or Jiyria? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/291/11/

  159. @ripcord yea when ur facing a prodigy who as far as we know has never used his full power and a member that has chakra basically like a tailed beast its knid of unfair to put asuma in thar position lol. And @kagami it is really NT surprising to me that madara did this with a normal sharingan. Sasuke u remember went into naruto an surpressed the fox (want to point out that here the fox refers to sasukes eyes as sinister as madaras…. is it possible this masked man really is madara? ) so to see madara or whoever this is control the fox with a normal sharingan doesn’t really surprise me.

  160. I didn´t read all comments yet . So, sry if I am repeating somone´s ideas.

    Mysterious Tobi is for me more clear now I think. 😀
    According to my thoughts and information, which appeared in last manga. I think Tobi is from Eddy´s clan. It was mentioned that greatest advantage of Eddy´s clan is longevity – Tobi using gloves to hide his old body. and breaking seals- he passed barrier without problems only somone very skilled could do something like this and members of Eddy´s clan were known as the best clan in creating and surpassing seals( barrier is also some kind of seal) . He could have less problems with handling sharingan because he has more familiar blood to Uchihas because Eddy´s clan is close to Senju by blood and Senju to Uchihas … . Last thing what is Tobi´s motive ? Maybe he is just angry for killing whole Eddy´s clan by Great Nations and he is really pissed off on Konoho for not helping them. So , he tried to destroy Konoha at first with fox why he can so easily control fox? because the same thing like Kushina if she is in good form.
    How Tobi get sharingan?
    There is still many holes, but why he is collecting so many eyes what is he doing with them? and why was Shisui´eye so special for him and he got very angry when Danzo destroyed him? I think full blood Uchiha won´t collect sharingans like POKEMONS.
    At least now we know Tobi is a liar , he lied that fox was natural disaster, so he could lied also that he is Uchiha Madara. I think he worked some time also with Oro, which helped him in gaining sharingan. Maybe he was manipulating with DNA like in case of Yamato. So, Tobi could have Madara´s DNA or eyes but he is not madara himself 😀
    My personal opinion is that Tobi lost his arm in fight with Minato ( MINATO 4ever ) 😛

  161. “Senju to Uchihas”: Being related to the senju clan means you’re the opposite of the Uchiha

    “so Naruto’s longevity IS a kekkei genkai.”: Not really. Anyone can live a long life or die at any point, it’s a lot more about luck (like avoiding wars) and staying healthy. Saying that is a Kekkai genkai would be like saying Naruto has a doujutsu because he has eyes.

    ” Naruto didn’t inherited ” actually Jiraiya said he had special chakras, it was just before we knew who his parents were.

    I don’t think a kekkai genkai takes away from your acomplishments because you still have to use it properly. How else could Itachi have killed at least half his clan in one night when they all had a super strong kekkai genkai? The answer: because he’s a beast ninja.

  162. @mart1

    I wouldn’t say the Senju and Uchiha are opposite in terms of chakra though, they both have strong chakra. They are definitely opposite in philosophy, but as we have seen with Danzo and his arm, the Senju chakra from Hashirama’s cells enabled him to withstand the chakra hungry sharingan.

    I agree with you mart1 though that if Naruto has a kekkei genkai, he certainly was never able to use it before. Of course, we always chalked his durability and immense chakra reserve up to the Kyuubi being inside him, but it turns out that has to do with where he came from too… so where’s the difference?

  163. “The only battle we got to see him in was against Hidan and we all know that was not a fair fight.”
    Yeah you’re right, that wasnt a fair fight. It was 4 against Hidan, so that only affirms how weak Asuma was. And Kakuzu interfering to sew on Hidan’s head wasn’t unfair because it was only thanks to the initial 4 on one assault that his head got cut off in the first place.Konoha propaganda got you guys again lol

    @p, Jiraiya’s dead and doesnt know about Sage Mode. Sage Mode heals whatever damage the Kyubi’s chakra would do to Naruto. So yes, I know more.

  164. ““so Naruto’s longevity IS a kekkei genkai.”: Not really.” Yeah, it is. The fact that its chakra related, cant be copied and runs in his clan means its a kekkei genkai.

  165. Actually kisu a lot of the hidan asuma fight was 1v1. Kakuza made sure to limit the interference and actually took a lot of the rest of the groups attention. Sides kakuza did help hidan out and don’t forget sides shikamaru and asuma those other two were borderline useless so really it was 2v 2 1/2 lol.

  166. “Senju and Uchiha are opposite in terms of chakra”: Well the Senju have the body while the Uchiha have the eyes, so while the Senju chakra would make sharingan use possible, it wouldn’t be on the uchiha level similar to how Kakashi is. You wouldn’t be able to surpress beasts or do the high level jutsu (like teleportation) with ease.

  167. @Token, you need to rewatch that fight lol. At first those two attacked Hidan, got screwed, then it was Shikamaru and Asuma vs Hidan. Kakuzu attempted to infere many times and most of the times Hidan said “Eat a Dick Kakuzu” basically telling him not to interfere. Then when Shikamaru figured out Hidan’s ability, they got him out of the circle and Shikamaru then used his Shadow Sewing to trap Hidan while Asuma decapitated him. Then Hidan made Kakuzu reattach his head and proceeded to stab himself and fatally injure Asuma, while Kakuzu took care of Izumo and Kotetsu because they attacked him. Ten when Hidan was about to finish off Asuma, more Konoha ninja arrived. So that fight was anything BUT fair for the Akatsuki duo, and thanks for helping me demonstrate just how weak Asuma was.

    Besides, there’s a reason he was a part pf the TWELVE ninja guardians, its a lot of them. Seven of them would be no match for the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist, and three of them wouldnt be a match for the Sanin. See where I’m going with this?

  168. I’m not. Sure u get what I’m saying lol. For one its weak when u fight an immortal who can’t die and who if not for kakuza would have been defeated by a “weak ninja” and shikamaru?and u proved my point that those other two ninja were useless lol. And who in their right mind would hidan could survive being decapitated. Hidan was shown to be quite reckless and asuma did do a fair amount of hand to hand combat. Like I said it as really 2v 2 1/2. Ur telling me those other two actually count as ninja? And viable at That?

  169. @Token, they served to expose Hidan’s ability with their first strike. And like I said, the only fair fight would have been Asuma against Hidan alone. We saw that when it was only the two of them, Hidan clearly had the upperhand, and even when Shikamaru joined in and Hidan had to be dodging Shikamaru’s shadow, he still held the upper hand against Asuma. And it matters not what ability your opponent has. Asuma lost even when he outnumbered Hidan, he was weak. End of story. He needed Kakashi to bail him out against Kisame, and doesnt begin to even be considered strong.

  170. @kisu “Yeah you’re right, that wasnt a fair fight. It was 4 against Hidan”

    yeah but hidan and kazaku teamed up against the two-tails but their not considered weak, the same with sasuke’s group when they teamed up against killerbee so u cant really say asuma is weak soley based off of the fact that he fought with his team against hidan. asuma did beat 12 sound shinobi at chunnin and above by himself and he has a 35 million bounty on his head. i dont think someone would pay that much for a weakling. also about kakashi bailing him out against kisame, this is kisame we are talking about lol even killerbee had trouble with him and killerbee is a complete badass

  171. Kisam the Guy who the 8-tails almost lost to? Yea not many ninja currently can handle him lol. Also I’m not saying asuma was powerful but I wouldn’t call him weak. He’s def stronger than ur average ninja (the two trying to “help”) but not even in kakashis category. I would consider him above average. Sides fair fights hardly ever happen in naruto so u can throw That out the window. In all of naruto te closest thing to fair was gaara v naruto in part 1. Sasuke v itachi was semi fair but itatchi don’t want to kill sasuke. Also kisame v killerbee was pretty fair as well. And u keep on mentioning the gang ups…. akasuki is made up of some of the best so the equivalent would be Like having naruto/gaara in a group, killerbee/kakashi in a group etc. They were made up of some of the best so they needed to be ganged up on. Hell naruto killed kakuza three times pretty quickly by himself. The groups they lost too were teenagers. I mean seriously they can’t beat a girl and a grandma or three jonin w/kakashi? Seems weak to me…

  172. @token
    i agree with u except that i wouldnt call kisame vs killerbee fair either cause he had to protect the enka guy and his pet

  173. True dat I forgot about those two

  174. damn Kisuzachi, do you like anything about this manga? quit being a hater!

  175. @ftw, nah it was fair. Biju and Jinchuriki ARE two against one. And yes, Sasuke’s team was pretty weak.

    “asuma did beat 12 sound shinobi at chunnin and above by himself and he has a 35 million bounty on his head”
    Yeah, Guy and Kakashi beat EVERY ninja that invaded the Arena, way more than 12. Hiashi pwned a lot on his own too, so did Chouza, Shikaku and Inoichi. Sound ninja are good, FACELESS Sound Ninja arent. Also, have we veer seen another bounty in this manga? Nope. In One Piece we thought 20 million was alot, then we find out that’s chump change compared to pirates with 320 million. So when we see other bounties, THEN you can use Asuma’s in an argument.

    “also about kakashi bailing him out against kisame, this is kisame we are talking about”
    Yeah I know Kisame’s one of the strongest Akatsukis, but Kisame is a single human. Thus I can compare these two as much as I wish. Perhaps compared to Kurenai he’s strong, but compared to the Jonin we are used to seeing, my statement stands, Asuma was weak.

    “Also I’m not saying asuma was powerful but I wouldn’t call him weak. ”
    I call someone weak when they literally BEG for help. The guy saw his death and instead of accepting his fate, let his student and partners escape and then fight to the death, he begged them for their help lol.

    “They were made up of some of the best so they needed to be ganged up on.”
    If this story was a Western series, I’d have no qualms about it. But this is Japan where they’re always talking about honor and whatnot, so tag teaming is honor-less and irks me. Imagine you being powerful, but forced to fight 5 guys on your own. And I know this is what NINJA do, but none of these ninjas ARE ninjas, so that excuse doesnt apply to them.

    “I mean seriously they can’t beat a girl and a grandma or three jonin w/kakashi? ”
    Sasori did beat Chiyo and Sakura, but he killed himself. And Kakuzu had been fighting for a while when Naruto took him out (killed two of his hearts), so its not like he was fresh. These very same teenagers that are “beating” Akatsuki members also attacked Kages and fought a god (under special circumstances). I say this is Kishi’s fuck up. It really isnt believable that kids are stronger than ninjas like Kakashi who’ve been training their entire lives. Kishi should’ve done ANOTHER timeskip or made more than 3 years pass in the previous 1, that way it’d be more believable.

  176. @ripcord, I like this series, it reminds me of DBZ. But there are just certain characters I hate (all the weak ones basically)

  177. im just saying Asuma was weak. I mean pathetically weak. Seriously, I mean MEGA SUPER DUPER WEAK. lol

  178. @kisu ” Biju and Jinchuriki ARE two against one”

    then what is the difference between that and pein, if both are using their own unique jutsu. your saying that for the naruto v sasuke fight naruto and the the nine-tails teamed up on sasuke but nagato didn’t have 6 bodies jump jariaya

    “So when we see other bounties, THEN you can use Asuma’s in an argument”

    dont get me wrong im not saying asuma isnt weak compared to other ninja like naruto or even guy, but that 30 million bouty on asuma’s friend was enough for kazaku to go out of his way to collect so it must be pretty high. of course someone like minato probably had a few billion on his head

  179. Naruto wasn’t fresh either rofl he just finished trying to train and his rasenshuriken wasn’t even finished. This isn’t one piece so u can’t compare the bounty in one to the bounty of another. O and since u wanna compare I guess shikamaru Is stronger than hidan? After all it literally was 1v1 so hidan is weaker than one teenaner lol. And kakashi is not that old…. u can’t say his entire life and make it sound like he is old. Gotta be like What 26 or so? And kishis point is that the current generation surpasses the old and BTW ur so called God used six different bodies when he fought jiryia….. talk about a gang uplol. That’s a ridiculous gang up

  180. “35 million bounty on his head.”: You realize that this is in Yen right? That’s only $392,000 American.

    I consider weak and strong to be subjective. Ex. Hinata < Neji, but Neji < Naruto when it comes to general strength. Not even taking into account things like A < B < C < A. I think Asuma has some abilities, but when compared to people of Akatsuki's strength, which is the current basic level of skill for this Manga, he just doesn't make the cut.

  181. “their own unique jutsu”: they didn’t though… Killer Bee used HIS OWN CHAKRA to use HIS OWN lightning attacks, THEN Hachibi used HIS OWN CHAKRA to use HIS OWN jutsu (things like Chakra Cannon). Not even getting into the fact that they used synergistic jutsu like Lariat. Clearly they teamed up. This is NOT the case with Nagato/Bodies. For instance, the Animal Realm used NAGATO’S CHAKRA and NAGATO’S Jutsu, Animal realm never used chakra created by the dead body or techniques that that body learned while alive, this applies to all of the bodies. They were simply mediums for Nagato to use his chakra, saying they ganged up is like saying Killer Bee fanged up on Sasuke 8 vs. 1 when he fought using his chakra infused blades. (Disregarding the total tally of people/weapons) do you seriously consider every Kunai an ally? If not then why consider puppets (another form of weapon) an ally?

  182. “do you seriously consider every Kunai an ally”

    thats why im said the bijuu and their host are one in the same

    this is just like nagato’s six paths are one in the same, there cant be a double standard thats all im saying and no not every kunai an puppet is considered an ally.

  183. Bah tbh I’m not sure y I’m arguing all this lol. Asuma is above average but that’s it. I just want this new chapter to come out and hopefully we can see what minato can really do. We heard and speculated what he can/can’t do. Honestly I’m pretty sure we will see a couple rasengans but I’m hoping for something we haven’t seen before

  184. @kisu I’m not sure but I thought all of kakuzu’s hearts had their own chakras so that would make him fresh
    @mart i’d really like to see hinata in battle 1) shes a personal favorite of mine 2) I wanna see what that lion fist jutsu can do. She may have surpassed neji or atleast as far as usefulness in tracking goes as she can see in kilometers compared to his 800 meter.
    Anyone else hope naruto gets some stealthy, ranged jutsus so he can use surprise attacks since you can here rasengan from forever away? I love cqc but I mean sasuke has balance why not naruto

  185. eh i dunno…Asuma was definitely one of the most likable characters but even I have to admit that he was pretty weak. Yes, he was above average from your average Jonin definitely…but being the son of Sarutobi all he had to show for it was wind-augmented weapons and some dust haha.

    As a side, I’m sad they never showed Sarutobi using the apparently huge arsenal of jutsu from the village that he knew. Regardless, his fight with Orochimaru was one of my favorites and one of the most badass.

  186. I think they need to introduce new Akatsuki members, it would be cool if the 4th Mizukage comes back under Madara’s control with his Yoton techniques and battles Naruto! The only thing i wish Kishi did was let Naruto fight more battles, he needs the battle experience that Sasuke has. We all can agree Sasuke has the type of jutsu that can take any ninja on but Naruto’s techniques are like Peins, predictable!

  187. You can say what you want about Sasuke but you can’t say he’s not a genius, in part 1 I thought they were making him seem stronger than he was but in part 2 he has really shown that he is a genius! I wonder what the new eye technique will be now that he has awaken is EMS!

  188. @yellowflash2

    I know what you mean about Naruto, but Kishi can only give him certain battles because he is such an important piece in the war now, unless he gets pushed to the forefront in which case he will fight a lot.

    I was hoping the time skip would have come soon, but it is starting to look like we won’t have one… so weird.

  189. “thats why im said the bijuu and their host are one in the same”: But their not. Bijju have chakra, Kunai do not. Bijju have knowledge of Jutsu and Strategy, Kunai do not. My definition for an ally is another sentient being who helps someone in anyway during a conflict. Therefore while Kunai and dead bodies don’t fit this discription, Bijju do.

  190. “She may have surpassed neji”: I fail to see how… 1. She’s specialized in tracking, but even so Neji’s limit isn’t 800m that’s just all we’ve seen him do. 2. Even if she can see at kilometers, she can’t do anything to effect what she sees at that distance. 3. Neji is a rank higher, and by definition of that is more usefull to the village. 4. I don’t see what is so special about lion fist when Neji showed a similar jutsu roughly two hundred chapters earlier (mountain crusher) as well as a whole host of other jutsu (while Hinata only has filler jutsu)

    I think most of Hiruzen’s jutsu are what he used in battle, things like tile shuriken which is only applicable if you’re on a roof.

  191. I am also disappointed in part 2 of this manga because they don’t give enough focus on the Konoha twelve like in the first part. I want to see Neji and Lee kick some ass for once. I also want them to make Naruto more relevant in the story make him interact with the Konoha 12 more, hopefully they do now that they are at war! They should promote him to Chuunin too, it would be crazy if they make him compete in the Chuunin exams now that he is one of the strongest ninjas in Konoha if not the strongest. I would say promote him to Jonin but I guess we need to see if he can actually lead a squad on a mission!

  192. @kisuzachi
    yeah Jiyria don´t know about sage mode, he´s was a sage… and where doe´s it stand that the sage mode heals the dammage that made by kyubi mode?

  193. about Asuma being weak or strong, I think that he´s not strong as the others like Kakashi and Guy, but he ain´t weak either he was fetily strong, he was a jonnin afterall and they are strong

  194. he even says him self that Hidan and Kakuzo out dim him by far… but that doesn´t mean that he is weak

  195. A work now so if my pic doesn”t show..oh well
    anyway I know I’m a lil late on what I am about to write about but hell… I am not aguring about Azuma being weak or not but Kisu you can not use just one manga page as an insert to make a point when you need to look at the whole manga chapter. The page before and after 323 page 8 (7 and 9 of course) shows Azuma is not cry or asking for help. he is giving orders and trying to put a plan together to lop of Hidan head as he is unable to be killed. They just found out the chapter before Hidan was unkillable so he didn”t see his death as it was the beginning of the battle but any way that was 178 chapters ago. however I will agree Azuma may have had a bounty of 30 million but he was weak. waek compared to the other Jonins and some chunins and 1 genin in the manga.

  196. “your saying that for the naruto v sasuke fight naruto and the the nine-tails teamed up on sasuke but nagato didn’t have 6 bodies jump jariaya”

    Nope that was Nagato’s chakra and mind controlling them, the Biju are separate entities. Just look at Sasuke vs Killerbee and you’ll see what I mean.

  197. @kisuzachi

    Nagato may be controling the bodies, and he did supply them with chakra, but each of their systems is separate, that is why Nagato was not affected by Jiraiya’s genjutsu, only the 3 bodies in proximity to it.

    Each body is its own contained chakra system, although Nagato is ultimately in control of each.

    As to the Naruto vs. Sasuke fight, Sasuke wasn’t really in control of his curse seal either, he let it take over and it just gave him power, just like the Kyuubi with Naruto.

  198. @p, please, re-read my comment towards you. Jiraiya never knew Naruto would become a Sage. And Fukazaku himself said Sage Mode heals its user.

    @Token, Shikamaru is not stronger than Hidan. He was simply smarter. Shikamaru didn’t beat Hidan, Pain did.

    @generations surpassing one another, does it makes sense that 15 year olds are stronger than 30 year olds (like Kakashi and Guy)? Generations always surpass the previous one, but not so quickly. If they surpassed them when they reached their twenties it would have been more believable. Honestly, Part 2 makes Kakashi look like shit and in Part 1 he was like a demi-god. Everyone basically has at least 20 more years to get stronger (since most ninja in this manga die between 20 and 40), so just imagine Naruto or Sasuke in that time (both of them are capable of destroying entire villages right now)

  199. “their systems is separate”: This is no different than when Kankuro fought in the chunin exams, the opponent attacked his puppet isntead of Kankuro. The bodies are nothing more and nothing less than a defensive JUTSU used by pein to block (among other things) genjutsu.

    “its own contained chakra system”: while they have a chakra NETWORK, as a DEAD body, they don’t have the ability to CREATE chakra, the ONLY chakra in them is NAGATO’s via rod transmitter, so it is still only Nagato’s chakra.

    “it just gave him power, just like the Kyuubi with Naruto.”: Yes, but unlike the Kyubbi, the seal only uses Sasuke’s chakra and has no ability to fight or make chakra on it’s own while the Kyubbi does.

    “Pain did.” WTF?

  200. @kisu about the generations:

    Then either the Naruto manga would have to progress immensely quickly or it would be full of many weaklings who got beat about as often as they beat the enemy, so either way you would be disappointed.

    When you look at the advance of technology, it sped along like crazy once computers were invented. This is the same with ninjutsu I believe. Once they discovered it, each generation could build rapidly on the knowledge from the previous one. One example:

    The rasengan took 3 years for Minato to discover it, but a lot less time for Naruto to learn it (and probably less for Kakashi and Jiraiya). I’m not saying that the next generation will learn the rasengan faster but, since Kakashi learned the rasengan a lot sooner than 3 years he was able to spend those 3 years learning other jutsus. The next generation would then learn the rasengan, chidori, etc. a lot faster, and so the cycle would continue.

    I don’t get it, one minute you complain about how weak ninjas are in the manga, and the next you complain about how the next generation gets too strong too quickly.

    You really are just a hater Kisu.

  201. @kisu I think shikamaru defeated hidan….. might want to read the manga a little more closely. BTW strenght is more than brute power it also includes smarts so yea shikamaru was stronger in terms of smarts and use of his abilities.

  202. Well said rip

  203. “full of many weaklings who got beat about as often as they beat the enemy” but strength is subjective. What he’s saying is that he wants to ban ninja steroids, that way someone like Asuma, who next to the super strong ninja like Naruto and Akatsuki looks weak, isn’t completely overshadowed to the point that he dies in his second fight. A slow but STEADY development of ALL characters would make them both strong but not overpowered, resulting in close dramatic match ups where as you said, you don’t know who will win. We all know Naruto will win most of his fights, the same goes for Sasuke, it’s only when people of equal but high strength come together that there is a good fight. Why do you think so many people want to see Naruto vs. Sasuke?

  204. @Token, no Pain defeated Hidan when he called Hidan and Kakuzu back. If he didnt do that, then Shikamaru and all the Konoha ninjas there would have been killed. It was Pain callinjg them back that gave Shikamaru the time needed to analyze Hidan’s abilities and formulate a plan. So I’ll stick to what I said, Pain beat Hidan.

  205. @ripcord, I only complain about weak adults. Thibk about it. Albert Einstein died over 50 years ago, but some 15 year old wont surpass him until they’re like 30+. That’s what I mean. I had no problems with the Konoha 12 in Part 1bcause they were just kids and they’re expected to be weak, but 3 years and they surpass ppl like Kakashi? WTF? Kakashi is 30! He shouldnt have been surpassed that quickly.

  206. “Why do you think so many people want to see Naruto vs. Sasuke?”
    Its the same reason why no one wants to see Iruka vs Ebisu, because whle they may be equal, they’re just too weak compared to what we’re used to. Also the reason no one wants to see Hanabi (Hinata’s little sister) vs Kisame. Kisame is way above her and would kill her in 3 panels.

  207. Fukazaku never siad anything about healing Kybui dammage only regular dammage… and Fukazaku also wanted to merge with Naruto but the kyubi stoped that, the kyubi stoped the sage

  208. “the kyubi stoped the sage”: No, it just stopped fusion with Fusaku not sage mode itself. The gradual healing of sage mode will heal any damage, at a slow pace (as in not instant regeneration) so it would work for Kyubbi mode, my question is why would it be neccesary if Naruto controls the Kyubbi chakra? he only got hurt from chakra burn, but if he controls the flow it wouldn’t hurt him.

  209. Kisu really that’s ur logic that pein killed hidan?? That’s got to be one of the most stupid pieces of logic lol. So ur saying hidan is too weak to come back and kill shikamaru in a rematch? After ajl they are akatsuki would think that hidan could handle shikamaru one on one… pein killed hidan lol that is a pretty funny piece of logic. U just made me feel a little smarter today kisu

  210. hang on i just had an idea about who tobi might be

    why did kishi include the scene with mikoto and sasuke where they meet kushina and the third’s wife?
    it somewhat fits into everything we have been saying

    1 mikoto could have overheard their plans to smuggle kushina out of the village and she knew of the pregnancy

    2 tobi is oblivious an uchiha as is mikoto

    3 it has been proven that itachi can tell that tobi is not as up to par as he used to be. so he would have had to have known tobi personally or well enough to tell the difference. who better than his own mother….

    4 and the scene with itachi at the end of chapter 501 is probably another clue to this as well, showing that mikoto is conveniently absent. why else would itachi be holding tiny evil. i mean what mother would be away from her children after feeling that kind of chakra.

    maybe i am reading to much into all this but you can’t be certain that she is dead or obito for that matter
    this is the naruto world people

    dead people can come back at a whim
    the only other people that i could think of that have a possiblity to be tobi is itachi , obito , and shisui uchiha

  211. @Token, its the exact same thing that happened to Pain. Konoha got info on him, so that is why I always say Konoha beat the Six Paths of Pain and not Naruto. Hidan was by no means weak, he was just glaringly idiotic. Shikamaru figured him out and made a plan to beat him. It’s as simple as that. If Pain hadn’t called Kakuzu and Hidan back to the lair, then Shikamaru would be dead. There’s no going around that info. Pain killed Hidan.

  212. @Token lol you take things way too literally

  213. @kisu

    Your argument doesn’t hold water. Sure Pain allowed Shimakaru to live, and sure he gave Shikamaru an opportunity to come up with a plan to beat Hidan, but he still had to come up with a plan and execute it properly.

    It would be like saying “oh well because they had a break before the first round of the chunin exams, that’s really why Naruto won against Neji and why Sasuke was able to wound Gaara.” The people involved still had a chance to prepare on their own, given the time that they had. It’s true that Hidan lost his advantage of his abilities not being known, but Shikamaru lost the same thing.

  214. @ripcord, yeah, but Hidan is a complete idiot. Besides, I wouldnt call planting a huge amount of explosive tags on the battle before the battle as fair either. And yes, Sasuke only damaged Gaara because there was a break, if there wasnt, he would have been disqualified, thus the match wouldnt have happened. Just accept that Shikamaru didn’t defeat Hidan on his own, there were many contributing factors to it. But I blame Pain and Madara. What Akatsuki should have done is send four members to catch a Biju, sure it’d take longer, but its safer.

  215. @kisuzachi

    But that increases visability, so they used 2 man teams, besides they had 10 members, which is not divisible by 4.

    As to Shikamaru defeating Hidan on his own, or Naruto defeating Pain on his own, I think you are just not giving them any credit at all. I’m not trying to give them all the credit, Shikamaru couldn’t have done it without Kakashi’s help either, he would have not been able to get Kakuzu’s blood, nor would Choji, nor Ino. The point is though that Naruto and Shikamaru ultimately had to do it, so they get the credit.

  216. @ripcord, do Pain and Tobi REALLY need a partner? But the whole fair fight thing is a matter of opinion. I guess I watched too many samurai series (where its ALWAYS 1 on 1 no matter how strong the opponent) when I was younger (Ruroni Kenshin, Samurai Champloo etc), and even though they always ganged up on bad guys in DBZ, only Goku and Vegeta (and occasionally Gohan) were really of any use lol.

  217. @kisu I wouldn’t say that konoha beat pein, they couldn’t even locate nagato and I would say Jiraya and the Ibiki gave Naruto what he needed to know but lacked the talent to beat pein. Sorry guys I love J-sama and think he could have defeated most akatsuki except for Nagato and maybe Itachi. I think he could handle Kisame after a tough battle

  218. I don’t know exactly what everyone is talking about so far, but I managed to skim through the latest comments and see Kisu say that Tobi and Pein don’t need partners.

    Meh, Pein managed to only keep his battle settled while he had at least one other Path with him. On his own, a giant black hole thingy was the best he could do…and it still got pwned. So, yeah, Pein SO needs a partner.

    Tobi…*no comment*

    I don’t know if that’s what you were talking about, but TOO BAD O_O

  219. @”a giant black hole thingy was the best he could do…”: The paths aren’t people/partners, and the “pein” you are refering to is one OF those paths while the “Pein” the rest of the people are refering to is Nagato because that was his alias.

  220. Let’s everyone face it Pein was cool but he’s not as great and people are making him out to be, I just think that Kishi should have at least allowed him to survive longer if the Rinnegan was so important and special but I guess if they are going to insert the Rikudo Sage into the story arc then Peins gotta go!LOL

    Don’t get me wrong I like Pein, he’s actually one of my favorites but the truth is he was predictable and weak minded and over confident!

  221. It’s not like he’s forgettable, he’s the only one who was able to destroy the village and he managed to take down Jiraiya and the six tails and who knows how many other greats but he got beat by Naruto!

  222. Nah Pain HAD to die. He was way too powerful an ally for Naruto to have so quickly

  223. LISTEN UP EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I am so proud of everyone in the Shannaro world for the comment level lately and the great discussions, I hope that we keep them up, and I hope Kishi keeps giving us a reason to keep them up! I also want to say that we should also start commenting more on the fanfics to give our writers inspiration to keep writing!

    I also was thinking we could list all the fanfics and everyone can vote on their favorite one maybe every week, that could help give the fanfics a boost in readership! And the winner could be named Supreme Shannaro Fanfic Ruler of the Week or something! Does anybody like this idea?

  224. Oh! Since I’m one of the only writer’s left on Shannaro 2 (even though WS is my competition TT_TT) I LOVE that idea@Flash

    “The paths aren’t people/partners, and the “pein” you are refering to is one OF those paths while the “Pein” the rest of the people are refering to is Nagato because that was his alias.”

    The Pain that I AM referring to was arguably the most capable of handling combat and even then, he wasn’t that powerful by himself with absolutely no-one at his side. Even with great and powerful jutsu, each one has some weak point in either the stability of it or the chakra output and can be BROKEN in some way

  225. @Naru, yeah, but that’s not what we’re talking about. God Realm on his own is arguably a Kage level puppet, but its just a puppet. Nagato aka Pain, doesnt need any partners

  226. “Nagato aka Pain, doesnt need any partners” Yeah, but why? Being just a puppet leaves open space vulnerability, doesn’t it?

  227. spoilers for the next chapter aren lookin good

  228. level 2 to flying thunder god tech?!?! WOOOOOOT WOOOOOOT! by far the coolest hokage ever is Minato!!!

  229. @ Kisu, “Pein doesn’t need any partners”, what if all Peins puppets are fighting someone as strong as Naruto or even while he was with Naruto and Konan wasn’t their to protect him what if someone attack him why he was alone they could easily kill him!

  230. yea man from the spoilers looks like minato is pulling out some nice moves on the masked man. cant wait to see what exactly he does and what this level 2 stuff is!

  231. “the most capable”: no, Animal Realm is because he can summon the rest of the bodies.

    “what if someone attack him why he was alone they could easily kill him!”: Well since he has all of the bodies abilities, he would just give up the fight the puppets were fighting in order to kill whomever his own body was fighting, Or just kill them with his own jutsu since he has all of the individual bodies abilities.

  232. would summon the bodies and just give up*

  233. Or he could multi-task I mean nagato was one badass dude. If he can focus through six pairs of eyes at once I’m sure he can handle a seventh focal point

  234. you guys really aren’t getting it. What useful thing did Konan do? Pain, and Tobi didnt need partners. And if Nagato was fighting someone as strong as Naruto he’d just kill him because I doubt he would have fought an entire village before that or let anyone get info on him.

    Btw, I posted the spoilers waaaaay up ^—

  235. Just read the comment´s and all I have to say is: kisuzachi is a hater and I don´t know why he read naruto manga when he hates is so much and he´s also very very naive

  236. @rory, the measure of a true fan is not how much he likes the series, its how many faults he can find and still like the series. DBZ had more holes in its plot than Spongebob has on his entire body, but I still love that show more than any other fictional work. and for me, Naruto’s no different. I find the faults, the plot holes, but overall, I still like the series. And in the future, try contributing to the debate, cuz this is the first time I’ve seen you in my 18 months on Shannaro.

  237. By the way, a hater would be someone saying “This series sucks! Its gay and you’re all idiots for reading it” etc. I on the other hand, have been debating nothing but the characters, I never once blasted this series, so anyone calling me a hater is somewhat of an ignoramus. No offense of course

  238. Anyone know if it’s possible to change my pic on the iPhone because I really hate this awkward square. He looks half constipated half depressed

  239. @eaglesfan10: gravatar.com, if you have a wordpress account, and you can change it there

  240. @Eaglefan 10
    But by Kizus logic, Jman beat pein/ nagato. who wrote the book that made Nagato comit suicide. who go all the info, jman did baby. Dont marginalice Jman. Jman= Pawnage.

  241. @Captainobvious, nope. By Kisu’s logic, Nagato and Konoha beat Pain. Nagato inspired Jiraiya to write the book. Oh wait! The very first human beat Pain. If i t wasnt for him, then humans wouldnt exist and thus Pain never would have been defeated. BUT WAIT! If it wasn’t for the Big Bang and/or a god, then no one would exist to kill Pain.

    See how ridiculous that was? It’s quite clear you DONT understand MY logic lol

  242. Kisu…. no one can cause ur logic is very illogical lol. U said pein indirectly killed hidan so indirectly jman did the same….. I don’t understand.how u don’t understand cpt obvious

  243. @Token, and im saying that going by that same logic, Pain killed himself. The fact is, I truly am the only person that can understand how I think. And what he was doing is taking my logic to the extremes where it becomes utterly silly. The only reason I am mostly at odds with you ppl is because I THINK logically, while you guys think with your emotions, just like Sandaime (and we saqw how his reign turned out lol).

    Logical thinking would allow one to realize how much the deck was stacked against Pain
    Emotional thinking would lead one to believable that “The fight was uber cool and Naruto kicked Pain’s ass! Yeah!”
    Logical thinking would dictate that instead of saving a valueless newborn, one would save the Village’s greatest weapon, and if that’s not possible, destroy the weapon instead.
    Emotional thinking would be like this “NOOO! That’s his son! He cant kill his son! And that’s his wife, what kind of monster would do that? etc”.

    In the movie continuity of Transformers, Optimus and Megatron made an effective pair because Optimus was the emotional leader and Megatron was the logical one (ie. Optimus showed mercy where necessary and Megatron punished and made the tough choices when necessary). In Konoha there is only an emotional leader, and that only leads to disaster. So to all of you I say, grow a backbone!

  244. To add, Pain’s actions allowed everyone to re-group and think of a way to beat Hidan, and in that sense, Pain is the one that killed Hidan.

    Jiraiya however is a completely different case. With all the different aspects that came into play in the Six Paths’ defeat, one could only say Konoha, in a sense, beat Pain and not Jiraiya beat Pain. This really only take basic analytical skills lol

  245. By the way guys, mangastream will be delayed this week, so maybe we’ll have to wait for onemanga to get our Naruto fix for this week. Kishi has us hopelessly addicted lol!

    Naruto withdrawal symptoms:
    1. Pointless debating about inconsequential stuff
    2. Needless Sakura bashing
    3. Constant visits to manga sites, sometimes 6 times per hour.
    4. Locking yourself in your room with Ramen as you make crack theories about what’ll happen this issue.

    Damn you kishi >_>

  246. @kizu
    Sily in your eyes logicle in my own. U want to contibute a victory to pein or nagatoe that is not existent, how is that logical? U say stacked against pein or nagato i say Jman had the hole deck stacked against him. U would argubly dissagree seeing as u are as bias toward pein/nagato as i am for Jman. All i did was use your logic against u and immediately you attack your own logic, my point was provn the moment u atacked your own logic. I used your logic on purpose. hook line and sinker. hahaha. Wasnt it OBVIOUS.

  247. Jman’s info ALLOWED Konoja 2 beat pein/ nagato, his book too. Same as ur logic, jajaja. no logic required 2 know that. God i need my naruto fix. Kishi where r U?

  248. @CaptainObvious, I wasnt trying to give Pain a victory. That’s why I said IN A SENSE. I was simply discrediting Shikamaru’s victory. And I didnt attack my own logic, I attacked the logic you used illogically lol. Man this is withdrawal symptom #1 in all its glory lol

  249. Sakura bashing is always needed…Duh -_-

    More reasonable symptoms:

    1. Drooling of the mouth, eyes and or feet
    2. Acting as if you are a Naruto character, acting out the possibilities of the next chapter
    3. Making your own manga chapter in the basement
    4. Thinking Kisu actually makes sense

  250. I say it wasn’t Pein that killed Hidan but Shikamaru, even by Kisu’s logic, because Shikamaru choose/was smart enough to let Hidan go instead of some idiot move like “NOOOOO! you kill Asuma” folowed by an attack. Hidan as well could have ignored Pein’s orders and fought on, but he choose not to, so it all essentially comes down to choices they made themselves.

  251. Question, How in the hell did this LONG discussion turn from one of the strong Gokages (I meant what I wrote, Gokages not just Hokages) in the series that may or may not have made the biggest mistake that help cost him his life, however he did make a mistake (depending on who side you are on how big it was) to the second weakest Jonin in the manga that mistake to stay and fight did cost him his life? The WEAKEST Jonin being Kurenai. With me this is 252 responses. That my not be the record for this web page but this has got to be a record for this year, this month or something. This is a lot of writing

  252. Idk about asuma being weak there are plenty of other Jonin out there we haven’t seen in battle. What about ebisu even though he’s special jonin that has to count has jonin in my book.

  253. @kisu and others
    Why First didn´t destroy biju? Maybe he cannot don’t u think about possibility that kill it is just imposible? If it was possible Sage of the Six Paths could kill jubi and there will be no problems, instead of this he separated jubi from his body and his chakra split into 9 tailed beasts. That’s why First gave to all nations their bijus like Sage he just splitted power. I think bijus cannot be killed, if they can Sage could kill them that time and First also.

  254. @LordErcan, you cant compare the Jubi to its weaker counterparts. The Sage did his share by sealing it. And the fact is, anything that is alive can die as well. I’m sure if Hashirama forced the Sanbi to stand still as all 8 other Biju fired Menacing Balls at it, then it would surely have died. And we’ve seen time and time again that the Biju aren’t indestructible. Just ask the Hachibi’s horn and tentacle 😉

  255. Well guys, at least, episode 168 was great, after two weeks of wait. Especially if you compare it with episode 167! 🙂

    Also, I think it’s kinda connected with the oncoming chapter 502 and the current plot.

  256. @WoiAiNi, yeah it was great! They finally made an episode worthy of this story 😀

  257. Raws (hasnt been translated yet) for Chapter 502!


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