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Chapter 500 – Does it Hurt? Like, Bad?

naruto-retro1Post Author: Bob

We knew 500 would be an amazing tell-all chapter, and Mr. Kishimoto did not disappoint us this week. There’s so much revealed in this chapter, it’s almost overwhelming. But finally after 10 years of waiting, we’ll find out exactly what happened to trigger the events which led to Kyuubi’s escape and attack on Konoha. I have a lot of observations to mention on this chapter, and I see we’ve already have over 100 comments in the early chapter discussion post, so I apologize if I’m repeating what people have mentioned already. It’s also Canada Day today (July 1st), so I’ll be keeping this post in mostly point form format since there is partying to be done tonight.

– Eddy village was revealed to be have had very close ties with Konoha since they are both descended from Senju clan; the first Jinchuuriki of Kyuubi, Uzumaki Mito, even married Hashirama Senju. All Chunin and Jonin wear their symbol on their uniforms. But if the two were so close, why have we heard so little about them thus far.
– Is Mito Uzumaki Kushina‘s mother? The way Kushina speaks of her doesn‘t make it appear so, but Mito was said to have had a child even when the Kyuubi was sealed within her…
– Shinobi from Whirlpool are said to be master of sealing jutsu and longevity — it’s very possible members of the clan are still alive today.
– Could it be that the Madara we’ve come to known is actually a surviving member of Eddy village? The strongest link is the shape of his mask which resembles the symbol of Eddy village.
– Eddy village was apparently destroyed because others feared their sealing technique — not surprising seeing as how the most powerful of them were powerful enough to seal a Bijuu inside their bodies. But my question is how could Konoha stand by and let such a close neighbour and ally get utterly wiped off the map; the exception being if the whole country was literally destroyed over night.
– Notice how Madara is never mentioned by his name in Kushina’s conversation with Naruto; it’s always the ‘masked guy’ or something similar. Even the narration text at the end of the chapter asks “Who’s face lies behind the mask?” This is further proof that the real identity of ‘Madara’ is not what he claims.
– ‘Madara’ also knew that the four-element seal is weakest when a Jinchuuriki is in child-birth — I think this is further proof he is actually a survivor of Whirlpool country since few others would know this secret.

– The Kushina meeting Mikoto (Sasuke’s mother) was a clever scene, but I’m also wondering if it hints at something. How could ‘Madara’ have known the exact time Kushina would be giving birth unless he had already had deep connections inside the Uchiha clan and was privy to info provided by all clan members.
– The ‘Madara’ we see in this chapter has the same appearance (his mask at least) as the ‘Madara’ Itachi had first met. It could be that during the period of this chapter, Itachi had already began to interact with ‘Madara’, perhaps even provided info on Kushina’s pregnancy.
– ‘Madara’ in this chapter has the same phasing technique the present-time ‘Madara’ employs, but notice how the past ‘Madara’ does not wear any gloves over his hands. It could be just because the current ‘Madara’ thinks gloves make him look cooler, but another possibility could be that he is trying to hide his old age by hiding the deterioration of his hands.
– It’s interesting to see that Naruto was born with those whisker marks on his face, I always thought it was a side effect of having Kyuubi sealed inside him.
– So ‘Madara’ killed he Third Hokage’s wife and gained control of Kyuubi by threatening to kill the newborn Naruto. I think I already have a good picture of what actions Minato and Kushina will take next chapter — 501 will finally put the pieces together for us!

That’s it for me this week. Sorry about the format but I’m in a rush to get going for the festivities tonight. Happy discussions everyone, the next few chapters will be very interesting reads!

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249 Responses

  1. yea she did have children tsunade is her granddaughter

  2. Man this was the most exciting and anticipated chapter since
    the 4th’s appearance in Naurto’s psyche . Bob I sent you something. I may need your help to post it but back to the story. A lot of questions were answered including one that has been in the Naruto Universe since Chapter 462 and possibly way before that. Naruto’s relationship to Tsunade. Well as we know she is not his Grandmother as it was a hot topic a while back however they are both and I can’t believe I’m saying this about Tsunade but they are Uzumakis. Ain’t that a kick in the teeth.

  3. do you think she knew the were both uzumaki

  4. @yo-yo
    maybe tsunade and naruto are 1st cousins? if kushina is a daughter of mito, or kushina is the granddaughter making kushina and tsunade 1st cousins, that sounds better i think. nahhh, i enough with the family tree….

  5. nah, kushina isn’t her daughter, she said she was brought to the village to be the next jinchuuriki, if she was the daughter of mito she would have already been in konoha

  6. minato was not fit to be hokage. He placed Konoha, the village he was sworn to protect, in jeopardy all because of his family. The way I see it, he had three options:
    1. Call the masked man’s bluff and said, ‘kill the baby then, I’ll just knock up my wife again’
    2. Hand over kushina in exchange for Naruto.
    both these option have the direct result of releasing the kyuubi.
    This leaves option 3.
    One rasengan to the head of kushina, killing the kyuubi and his wife in one swift movement.
    *with great power comes great responsibility*
    At the end of the day, he’s just a civil servant who must protect the village and this is the best way to protect the village.
    And believe you me,, the masked man would be so shocked by minato inventing option (c) that minato would have a few moments in which to make his move to save and/or de-mask the masked man.

  7. I think nobody ever thought about the academy year, kushina hopes sasuke and naruto will be in the same year, but we know that naruto failed many times, and sasuke was the genius, so how come they both pass together and be in the same team, unless sasule also failed as many times as naruto??
    The point that konoha let the eddy village die out was interesting too, surely this chapter already proved many theories right and others to trash. Also this will spark many more theories too…

  8. @madzikage – u oviously have no clue what it feels like to be a father. For my child i’d say f**k the village anyday!!! F**k the world for that matter…. That doesnt discredit him as hokage. Just prooves he was a great human being.

    Great chapter, so many questions are being answered…. soon the final question of the masked man will be revealed!! ugghh i cnt wait… I hate u madara!!!

  9. damn it so close..
    i’ll get first post one day Bob!!!

    i always stated that tobi was not who he sad he was and him beind an uzu nin might be a high possiblity as well as the tobi is itachi’s best friend theory ( i forgot his name)
    it was also interesting that naruto was born with the whisker marks leading to the question if he was born with kyuubi’s power as well
    it will be interesting how the next chapter turns out

  10. ramborint naruto took the test several times but you can take it anytime and how may times you want he just stated taking the test at a younger age he was still in sasuke class it show in the anime and manga

  11. @ramborint
    i always wondered how the students in naruto’s graduating class were the same age as him after it says he took the exam 3 times to pass.
    it could be a possibility that he was enrolled early somehow since it seems less likely that the oh so perfect teme would have failed

    this is minato we are talking about!
    while he might not have been father of the year
    it’s quite shameful to say that about him
    even if it is just your theories of what happened

  12. now what the hell was i about to say…
    oh yeah!

    since it is now proven that the first hokage married a ‘red haired’ uzu nin by the name of mito.
    i guess it would safe to say that it could be possible that see is kushina’s grand or great-grand mother.
    that would also mean that mito and hirashima’s child is tsunade’s mother or father coming to the conclusion that!!

    she’s related to naruto…..
    boy i would love to see her expression if this is true

  13. sometimes i hate being right, smh, but like i said the truth will be revealed, thank you all for listening, good day

  14. Maybe Madara is a survivor of the Eddy’s village the more we talk about it the more I am beginning to believe it. The shape of the Mask and even the jutsu when he disappears makes that shape!

    And it really is a good chance that Mikoto gave away Kushina’s whereabouts because they were planning a coup at the time weren’t they? She could have been leaking info on Kushina to gain control of the Kyuubi to help with the coup they planned on the village.

  15. Madara also could have been working with the entire time then later on when Madara had no more use for them he decided to get rid of the Uchiha for good!

    The time line is kinda confusing so I’m guessing that maybe the Uchiha clan were going to come forward and tell the Hokage the truth but by that time so much had happened and Madara manipulated them to make their move and wipe them out!

  16. I don’y think Mito is Kushina’s mom maybe just someone she knew from the Eddy’s village!

  17. Why are people blaming Minato, they don’t even know what happened yet and we all know he stopped the Kyuubi and saved the village sacrificing his son himself and Kushina! Minato was the best Hokage and my favorite character so calm down!!!

    I wouldn’t be able to sacrifice my son or my wife so easily, I would try to protect them all, just like Naruto won’t kill Sasuke to protect the village!

  18. tsunade is just related Naruto by clan… Pretty cool tho. I still think my option 3 for minato i.e. Kill kushina makes the most sense.

  19. I like how Naruto in one chapter has been related to every single Hokage ever.
    They are all part of his family Tree.

    I however have one question.
    Minato, is the fastest ninja ever and for some reason he couldnt match up to this masked guy?

    Maybe he already knew he was no match for him because of previous encounters.

  20. kushina can’t be mito’s daughter. that’s impossible. if she is she should be older than tsunade because tsunade is the grandaughter of the first.

  21. @Jonnelien

    ah true… shamee
    well they could still share a family tree in some way..

  22. Alright, whoever thinks that the 4th should be making crazy decisions like killing his wife with a rasengan in the (Madzikage) should be kiceked off the site. Because that was pure and utterly communism to a degree.

    My theory if anyone would like to know is that It all makes sense in a way. I believe that “Madara” isn’t who he says he is, but a guy who seeks revenge for the Whirlpool Village being destroyed. Why does he want revenge? Well because the Whirlpool were already feared for their High-level Sealing Techniques and Hashirama had his wife who is from the Whirlpool become the 9-tail Jinchurikki. I’m pretty sure once those bad ass Kumo guys heard about it they made an immediate decision that country down a notch. Since Kumo were in desperate need of learning how to control the Hachibi. This would make perfect sense also why “Madara” is able to have lived for this long. I mean his chakara from what was said was the leading cause of him being able to live, but this makes way too much sense to not take this into consideration :).

    Also I heard a recent rumor about Kagami Uchiha. A Uchiha teammate that was apart of the 2nd’s group including Danzo and the 3rd. From what I heard and it dones’t sound to far-fetched that he might be the current “Madara”. Why?
    I’ll tell you now. He has to be the same age as Danzo and the 3rd. From what was said he might have been Madara son and knew about his dad and his past. Kagami was presumed dead, but Itachi never killed him, Danzo’s “long time no see” when they met, Kagami Would Help Kill his Family for how they treated his father as for revenge, and his teammates conspired to kill his family. Makes crazy sense too but just throwing it out there.

  23. I hope it is Kagami. Badass wouldn’t it be.

  24. Oh, by the way. Is that Volemort! This is deja vu to Mr. Harry Potter. lmao! Classic.

  25. @LSimZ
    holy crap your right!
    except for the fact that he wants the kyuubi
    but the cloak and everything fits!

  26. i still stick by my theory that itachi personally knew tobi before
    we just need to find out who
    also i might have been wrong with the kushina- mito theory since we don’t know who old kushina really is?
    being from uzu she might have longevity and just appear young.
    that draws me to another mito and kushina related conclusion that i stated on suna’s post.
    mito sealed the kyuubi in herself and obviously didn’t die so why did the fourth? and did he have to?
    i wonder what happend after tobi showed up

  27. It’s impossible for Mito, the 1st Hokage’s wife, to be Kushina’s mother. If that was the case then Kushina would be older than Tsunade (since Tsunade is Mito’s granddaughter) and Naruto would be around the same age as Tsunade.

  28. great chapter the best in a looong time, so informative, next might reveal who tobi is, i believe its madara’s soul being transfered to different dead uchiha bodies who had the EMS, who knows, so many different theories coming out and they’re all very plausible, this chapter has thrown everyone for a spin, perfect timing kishi, naruto’s past is all coming in together, the mask was crucial in this chapter, sauskes mom was behind something, this tobi character is becoming a bigger mystery as the chapters go by, bobs right a great battle will begin, finally minato in action, and cheers bob, im partying with some crown royal for you canadians

  29. I agree with some of the comments on madara being an eddy Nin. The eddy nin could have stolen a sharringan for himself. He was most likely pissed at konoha for making the women of his village the nine tails host.

  30. did anyone notice Mito had a diamond seal on her temple like tsunade did?

    So I take that minato taught Jiraiya a shed load of sealing techniques. So do you think Kushina will bestow naruto with her sealing techniques? or will he have to learn them through kakashi or someone!

  31. i dont think kushina wil be able to teach naruto much of anyting. i mean really, how much longer can she hang around in naruto’s mind for? she is all ready way past the amount of time minato had, and used some of her abilities to aid naruto in supressing the kyubi. she has to be running out of time soon.

    also on a side note, what the hell is yamato and bee doing? are they still sitting there with there thumbs in there perverbial arse’s. this is taking a long time and naruto is done with the kyubi.

    clearly minato didnt know the sealing technique mito used, otherwise i think it would have made more sense for him to seal the kyubi into himself and become the 3rd kyubi jinchuriki instead of naruto, imagine how bad-ass he would be then. that technique might have even been a kekai-genkai.

    and i cant believe you think he should have killed his own wife. not only is that cruel there is no gurantee that it would kill the kyubi with the weakend seal. that in and of itself could have released the kyubi, and now he would be out both his wife and son.

  32. so its a big chance that the so called madara is a eddy nin which has a sharingan transplant from oro. madara only existed during orochimaru’s time, there hasn’t been a time line in naruto that madara existed after the battle in the valley of end and in the 3rd’s teenage times. madara only showed up when jiraiya, oro and tsunade are already sanins. so theres a possiblity that madara would have been a product of orochimaru’s experiments. it would have been oro who gave info to madara that kushina is about to give birth to naruto coz oro should have been hokage.

  33. come to think of it, the 6th coffin would have been madara’s real body. kabuto is trying to black mail him coz he’s not really madara. kabuto wants to destory sasuke’s trust to madara’s and when that happens it easy for kabuto to prey on sasuke. imagine also if the other villages knew that the masked man isn’t really madara then they will confidence on how to deal with him.

  34. I know! Sasuke’s mom’s hair looks just like flashback Madara’s maybe she’s Tobi and wears the mask to cover up her extreamly old apperance. (obviously sarcasm). One thing I liked was that Kushina didn’t have a kekkai genkai but a teachable skill that Naruto WILL end up learning.

  35. It makes a lot of since about Madara(alleged current Madara) being from the Whirlpool country, not only because of the reasons Bob said, but these as well:

    1: All of his strongest/closest allies had ties to a village dealing with water, Kisame/Pein.

    2.Not only is his mask the shape of the whirlpool country, but his main jutsu the vortex jutsu is also a tell all sign. Think about it…what are whirlpools?……answer: a vortex.

    Just a thought 🙂

  36. Also forgot to mention that he was the former Mizukage, also a water based village.

  37. It also explains more why Madara said he could see the will of the Senju in Naruto, because he knew where he inherited from, lol.

  38. I mean how old is the guy really? Like 99999999999999 years old.

  39. ok this was a great chapter and i see everyone is focused on narutos family but we should be focus on the fact that naruto is supposed to be a great sealer its not a kekkai genkai but that power was so feared the clan was wiped out. and when can believe that minato no correct that we know kushina helped create the death reaper seal and maybe many more seals like stuff that in those scrolls naruto stole in the very first arc , thats why the third was worried cause he could have discoverd his families powers by mistake and thats reason to fear naruto . just imagine a prankster who can use seal so power . now the only other person we seen use seal that aint dead is kakashi time for more one on one

  40. wouldn’t it be bad-ass if Kagami is both uzumaki and Uchiha

  41. ya good chapter and summary. wish it was twice as long haha

    on a side note….I want to send a copy of cinema 4D or something to whoever the hell is doing the naruto anime….especially the last couple of them. they are f*cking terrible looking. it doesn’t even look like the same artist or anime anymore

  42. The great thing about this chapter, on the Onemanga site they translate a part of Kushina saying that Minato saved most of his energy for Kushina so she could have more time with Naruto, that’s why he didn’t talk longer with Naruto during the Pein fight!

  43. Interesting chapter, revealed a lot of new info.

    The anime episode this week, Planetary Destruction, is freaking sweet! One of the best ones so far in my opinion.

  44. I think Naruto will meet someone from the only Eddy’s village who will teach him the sealing techniques! Maybe the Gedo Mazo is from the Uzumaki Clan!

    I know I this is a crazy question but can someone do a post on Sealing Techniques because I don’t think everyone knows why they are so special including me, why would they fear it, I think we need to find out more on Sealing techniques because honestly until now I didn’t think they were that important!

  45. Yellowflash: Sealing techniques are some of the strongest jutsu in the Naruverse. Pein’s Chakra Absorption, CS, DDCS, FTG, Yin Seal, just to name a few. If you have a bunch of ninja utilizing attacks like this then they are quite a force.

  46. @madzikage
    we don’t know the whole situation yet. we don’t know how minato reacted yet. so your point isn’t 100% true as of yet. i would have supported your opinion if and only if we know that sacrificing kushina and naruto would truly save people from the harm of the “masked man”. if you remember, both kushina and minato have told naruto that using the fox’s power was very essential in defeating the masked man. so giving temporary control of the fox to madara at the time, then regaining control of it using naruto as a host to further help in fighting madara in the future, would have yielded less casualties ultimately in the future. given those circumstances as the closest possibility would make it evident that minato was truly worthy of the title hokage.

    not to mention who it was that ended the last ninja war. yes, there were casualties, but ultimately, minato HAVE saved lots of lives when he ended the war. THAT makes him a great man.

    no, i don’t believe sacrificing the entire village or the “world” for family’s sake makes a man great. one life does not weigh the lives of many people whatsoever. a great man would solve a problem with the least casualties, and a man who can “save all” is even greater.

    my 2 south african pennies.

  47. @madzikage again…

    forgot another essential point:

    minato DID sacrifice HIS and his WIFE’s lives when sealing the fox inside his own son.

    both his life and his wife’s were sacrificed in the matter. and he put his own son under the extreme hardship of being the host, the monster whom everyone hated…

    that alone renders your point inconsistent. the man really did his job as hokage, and we all know the rest.

    also, we don’t even know if he willingly handed the kyuubi over or not. minato did mention that he was no match for the “masked man” at the time, and the masked man saw through everything he did.

    you’re underestimating madara’s power.

  48. lots of crazy theories here and there, so here’s another crazy theory, lol…

    the “masked man” is the 1st hokage’s son and tsunade’s father. with great power inherited from his father, and great sealing techniques inherited from his mom. also long life.

    he wants to seal all the tailed beasts inside his own body to be the ultimate host…. just ambition.

    how crazy is that? loool

  49. INTERESTING!!!!!

  50. Also, Tobi being a rogue Senju could make sense. His part in the Uchiha massacre, turing Sasuke (now the last living Uchiha) into the shinobi world’s greatest criminal, destroying the Uchiha name, all things an embittered SENJU might strive for. Then taking a Sharingan (since we all know how easy THAT is) in order to further cast blame upon the Uchiha. Pushing Naruto to prominence while obliterating the Uchiha, Senju ultimately wins. Naurto dies a hero while the Uchiha name is forever cursed. Also, given the clans’ history, his extensive knowledge of all things Sharingan would make sense.

    Not saying this is what I think WILL happen, just saying the theory could make sense within the confines of what we know.

  51. since they said guess who be hind the mask it someone we’ve seen be fore

  52. Mito Uzumaki was shodais wife and tsunades grandmother

  53. @Madzi, yeah ur right, that would have been the right thing to do. It would have been best to kill Kushina right there, taking out the Kyubi forever instead of risking it being released. Screw you Minato, you dick. If you just killed Kushina you would have completely stopped the Moon’s Eye Plan and make Akatsuki completely useless/goalless. Now there’s a 4th Ninja War becuz you couldnt let go. Pain is the best character this manga ever produced.

    Mikoto couldnt have known that Kushina would be having the baby now, or even know where, so the theory that she gave info on Kushina is far-fetched.

    And I know why no one ever mentioned the Uzumaki clan, Kishi didnt think of it yet. He only drew those spirals becuase he says he likes drawing spirals a lot. Now think about it, if the Uzumakis were so hated and were such huge targets, it would make a shitload more sense to name the kid Naruto Namikaze. Once again, I credit this to Kishi just thinking of it.

    @Yellowflash, dont blaspheme! Gedo Mazo is Nagato’s and no one else’s!

    Ps. This week’s anime episode was CRAP! They turned Pain into a screaming maniac instead of the coolheaded killer he is! And they basically said “F*ck the manga, we’re doing what we want with this episode!”. The facial expressions were weird, and apparently Pain can infinitely use Shinra Tensei, I swear he had the justsu activated for like 6 seconds! And since when can the Four Tails bulk up and split itself into 3 copies? Also, Naruto picked up a frikken boulder and knocked Pain into the ground like a whac-a-mole AND PAIN WASNT EVEN INJURED! If all of that couldnt cratch him, then how can 1 rasengan take out God Realm? Screw you anime guys, just screw you! You ruined the best Arc of the manga with your douchebaggery

    Also, why isnt there any love for Tobirama (the Second Hokage)? He’s the most underdeveloped of all the Hokages and didnt really do anything. Sarutobi stopped Orochimaru and his Invasion and had a wife plus was considered the strongest Hokage, Hashirama controlled Biju (but was really weak without them) and had a wife, Minato….do I REALLY need to say what he did? And Tsunade is a freaking Sanin! Poor Tobirama…

  54. @lilmoe, I know you’re level-headed from our past discussions, so think this over. If Minato had killed Kushina right there a lot of casualties could have been avoided (like Iruka’s parents) and Tobi’s plans would have been completely ruined. So when he sacrificed Kushina’s life and his son’s, it was only AFTER the fox had done damage. I bet Yagura or Gaara’s father (both Yondaime Kages of their Villages) would have made the right decision 😀

  55. Lol wow I’m surprised people are shocked minato didnot kill his newborn child an wife. Honestly if you would b willing to kill your wife and let a strange man murder ur son in front of your eyes something is wrong with u. If you want to put blame on someone put it on the first hokage lol. If he just surpressed and than killed all the tailed beasts we wouldn’t have this problem would We? And last I cheeked konoha was still-life intact after this whole event right? People die in wars an battles it happens. They are ninjas for crying out
    loud lol they signed up for it. And seriously pein love still? Really? That’s getting old andplayed out. O and kisu in the kishi interview the fourth was considered the strongest dead ninja and that includes te third

  56. Hey! if the other here think that madara came from eddy clan. did you really forget that he came from uchiha clan….

    and also they did not mention that kushina is related to mito uzumaki. she only said that mito is her predecessor …

  57. BTW kisu I’m not Sure pein is the best cgaracter I mean a emo kid who lost his family and a close friend……the manga is not full of those lol only people Like sasuke and gaara…. not to mention naruto who lost his family to the fox an madara as well. For me itachi is one of the best character and minato is growing on me more an more. Pein was just brute force and crippled. Itachi was a enigma who was mysterious and haunted by many decisions. I mean honestly how would you deal with the choice between your village or your clan and at a young age to boot.itachi faced far more hardships an had to deal with the fact that his brother who he cared more than anyone would hate him mercilessly and not know the truth till later. Pein was uninteresting and to be honest I never thought he was that interesting nor did his ideology make any kind of sense lol. Peace through war and violence? Yea hitler felt the same way lol

  58. @Token, he said Minato’s tied with the Third, but ppl in the Naruverse say the Fourth is the strongest of the Hokages. As for Pain, we have different tastes in characters. I like deep characters with troubled pasts and a shitload of power (Vegeta, Kaiba from Yugioh, Nagato, Yahiko, Shinobu Sensui from Yuyu Hakusho, etc etc). The characters you like, to me are too 1-dimensional. That’s all I’ll say on the matter

  59. Wouldn’t exactly say pein is a deep character… *shrug* to each his own

  60. @Kisu, You are a complete idiot, if you were in his shoes you are telling my you would be able to kill you wife son or even you mother so easily! Look at how happy he was when Naruto was born and how much he loved Kushina, he would have done anything for them! No one on this site knows what it means to make this kind of ultimate sacrifice and in my opinion I would have let the Kyuubi be unleashed to save my family!

    If he did let it be unleashed that means he sacrificed Kushina for Naruto, because the host can live if the bijuu is extracted! I think he knew that he could deal with the Kyuubi if it was released but could watch his son die and Kushina may have sacrificed herself!

    MInato was the strongest Hokage, everyone says it on the show and even Kishi said it!

  61. @Token, ok I replied before I even read your second comment, now I MUST reply to what you said. Both Itachi and Nagato are deep. Itachi is a pacifist, but Nagato did something that took far more courage than resigning himself to not fighting. He became emotionally-deadened after all his losses and devoted his life to trying to show the world a path to peace. You say Hitler wanted the same thing, you’re wrong. Nagato didnt want to rule the world like the cliched villain, he wanted to make everyone understand each other through Pain, he devoted his life to carrying out his best friend, no, his BROTHER’S goal. Emo? No. He didnt sit there bitching about his life and lashing out at the world, he instead sacrificed all he had for what he thought was the greater good. Nagato’s vision of peace is more feasible than Naruto’s in a sense. There is always peace after a war because the world is afraid of that pain war brings (see periods after WW1 and WW2), but we as humans quickly forget and walk down that path again. We’ve never decided on peace through talking, EVER! Nagato’s peace has already existed in our world, Naruto’s has never.

    you also say Nagato was just brute force, if he was how could he have kept Akatsuki’s movements in the shadows for so long? How could he have known the right barriers to use and coordinated a perfect attack on Konoha?Instead of sending all the bodies in for one great attack, he sent in two of them as nothing but a distraction and completely outsmarted Konoha. Next he figured out a way to fight Naruto without killing him or endangering God Realm too much. Not many ppl can keep themselves safe while fighting and NOT trying to kill the opponent. Nagato is just one of those characters whose intellect isnt so prominent because of the sheer amount of power he has. If you’ve ever watched Inuyasha you’ll know what I mean. The series creator of Inuyasha says Sesshomaru’s weakest attribute is his intelligence, yet we see time and time again that he outsmarts everyone in the Inuyasha world and is the only one that isnt fooled by the main villain, but compared to his other abilities, his intelligence is weak. That is the exact case with Nagato. So unless you can prove your points, please don’t make them. When I bash Hinata or Sakura I back my statements up.

  62. @yellowflash, no one would want to kill their family, but when you’re put in the position of leading, you need to put the ppl above your own needs. The smart thing to do right there would have been to kill Kushina.

  63. @yellowflash right on. Cept kishi said minato an the third were tied as te strongest… however given what was said during the konoha invasion about the fourth dealing with oro and minatos coolness And pure awesomeness minato gets the edge. And I agree people here don’t take into consideration how difficult a spot minato was in and I would take a chance with a fight against the kyuubi over the sure death of my wife an child.

  64. “@Token, he said Minato’s tied with the Third, but ppl in the Naruverse say the Fourth is the strongest of the Hokages” Oops I meant, ppl in the Naruverse say the THIRD is the strongest of the Hokages.

    @Token to each his own indeed.

    “if you were in his shoes you are telling my you would be able to kill you wife son or even you mother so easily!” If I knew thousands of lives depended on me doing so, I wouldnt hesitate to do it. I may be a selfish asshole, but not even I’M that selfish lol

  65. Pein was one of my favorite Charcters but honestly if he was such a bad ass he wouldn’t have been Madaras bitch for so long and I feel the same way about Sasuke. I love both of their stories but in the end they both were weak minded enough to be controlled by Madara or who ever he is! They were born with great gifts that made them strong and they are cool but come on Naruto’s story has so much more dept!

  66. @ Kisu he wouldn’t have been named Hokage if he wasn’t strong and I believe he knew he could stop the Kyuubi, I don’t think he was as scared as you would like to believe!
    I also don’t think he was the type to panic under pressure!

  67. “If I knew thousands of lives depended on it, I wouldn’t hesitate to do it.” First of all the situation just began I don’t think the first thing that came to mind when he saw Madara holding Naruto was to kill Kushina!

    Minato: Oh shit, this guy has my son! I guess I have to kill the love of my life!

    He is probably thinking of all options before acting, thats what a true leader does, he just doesn’t do whatever pops in his head, he maybe is trying figure away to to save Kushina, Naruto and the village!

    Looks at Naruto like Itachi said, the best think for him to do is to kill Sasuke for Konoha but he won’t because he cares about them both! Maybe Naruto and Killerbee should both kill themselves huh and end all this right now!

  68. If Pein was such a great ninja, he wouldn’t have wanted to use the Bijuu to kill millions! His great idea was to this,” I will use the tailed beast to create the ultimate weapon and destroy the world and who ever survives will finally find peace and if they don’t they will use it again to kill the rest of them and then there will true peace! What kind of crap is that, the only thing he is interested in saving is roaches because thats the only thing that will be left alive!

  69. @YellowFlash, give me one instance where Tobi orders Nagato. It was partnership. Nagato was the leader, Tobi was the benefactor. Sasuke on the other hand is Tobi’s bitch. Also a leader has to act quickly in times of danger. I would have broken her neck right there because a Rasengan might take to long to form lol. Stopping the KYubi would be the best thing to do. In fact, Hashirama should have really just got rid of the Biju, but then again, its just like Nagato believed, people cant give up power. People are naturally greedy, we evolved form animals and greed is a necessity for survival…..so its human nature I suppose…

  70. Great discussions, I haven’t read all of them, On the post it was written that the Eddy village were descendants of the Senju clan, that’s incorrect they are distant relatives

    Also if Kushina and Mito were related wouldn’t she had mentioned it to Naruto in their discussion? To me the Hidden leaf village symbol doesn’t even look like a LEAF, it looks ike a duck or something

    I think Madara or (Tobi) being from the Eddy village will really kill his hype. We have been predicting for so LONG on who he really is, and now the theory of him being a Uzumaki really kills the theories of our imaginations, Me personally I want him to be someone unexpected, because if he’s from the Eddys village, what was his purpose for attacking Kushina

    I also think that the elders are evil, because they allowed the Uchiha clan to get wiped out, and they always take sides with Danzo. If Tobi is not from the Eddy’s clan, he might just be the Uchiha who was teamed up with Danzo, Sarutobi, etc.

  71. Is it me or was Madara not wearing a Akatsuki cloak when he encountered with Minato’s family.

  72. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/329/16-17/ sure look to me like pein wants to rule the world like EVERY OTHET VILLIAN LOL. Yea pein isn’t one dimensional an he’s more like hitler than u think. Hotler wanted people to do things his way and if u challengednhim see ya later. Also peins intelligence was not as good as one would think. Firat off he too orders from madara so pein himself didnot organize akatski nor keep them in check and give orders likr it first appeared. Also I mean in his first bout against jiryia he was very intent on powerful jutsus and on several occasions he has been outclassed by jiryia (seen by his quick analysis of prune moves and te fact peins bodies attacks r repetitive and easy to work around once discovered as naruto proved) not to mention if he were smarter he should have taken naruto as opposed to blab on about his pain giving hinata a chance to step in and her injury caused narutos explosion. Classic villain mistake lol how about u take naruto and explain as u go? Duhhh. And pein acts like he is the only one who has suffered. Come on itachi had problems but he wasn’t as psychotic as pein. Naruto had problems but he did it the right way. Pain is in everyone’s life doesn’t give him the right to cause more. Wiping out villages breeds hate and peace never comes from hate. Pein stated only through pain people can achieve peace….. if pain cause hate and hate breeds violence and people Like pein…. peace can’t be achieved.

  73. Madara just gave his lil’ punk an order lol.


  74. Pein is overated, I think Itachi, Jman and Minato are a tie for strongest and the third hokage too. Idealogy or not pein was used, dumb excuses, just like hitler, a “tyrant will always find an excuse for his tyranny”.

  75. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/16/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/363/17/ not to mention on page 14 or 15 Jinan tell pein he’s here… if that were sasuke or kisame they would have gone to pein
    Not to mention kisame mentions how glad he is knowing madara was pulling the strings

  76. Just so u know my links show pein being bossed around and lead around like a little dogand madara the real one pulling the strings. Itachi was smart enough not to fall for it and true to kill madara pein was too fund to know he was being used

  77. Dumb not fund… stupid auto correct lol

  78. @Token you anger me for your links only show two individuals talking. Tobi may have considered himself to be greater than Pain, but Pain never once cared about what he wanted as he had his own agendas. Also, the link where you show his goal says he wants to conquer the world, DUH! He says he’ll give the nations the weapons and they’ll use it against each other and then- fuck it, I wont even bother. I just dont give a crap now. I don’t care what any of you want to say about Pain because in a debate you guys still cant beat me when it comes to Pain. So screw this and keep living in your own worlds where Pain is a 1-dimensional character, I’m done arguing this, especially if its with the same person over and over again

  79. So much cool stuff has been revealed in this chapter and all you guys care to talk about is Pain? Get this through your thick heads, Pain is easily the strongest ninja we’ve seen thus far, nothing you guys say can prove otherwise.

  80. @Token
    Here how about U use this example…lol Pein was so whipped. lol


    no arguing this he admits he was ordered

  81. @Token
    Here is example of Pein being bossed around.jajaja
    Pein is so whiped. lol

  82. Kisu. …. check ur post up top in your own words u said nagato was not a cliche villian an he did not want to rule the world…. lol love te contradiction your implying not to mention u brought up pein by continually bringing him up lol ur right this was a awesome chapter an we don’t need u slamming minato and saying pein is the best character ever. If u don’t want to see your boy slammed STOP MENTIONING PEIN IN A CHAPTER ABOUT MINATO God its that simple. BTW captain obvious nice find lol. Pein admitting he is a lackey for madara and following his orders makes it even better… itachi rocks and was smart enough not to trust madara while pein was lead on a leash. OK kisu that was my last dig 🙂 ill stop slamming pein if u stop bringing him up every 10 seconds

  83. @rinnengan hard to tell from that angle but given timeliness and such akatsuki probably was not around an madara probably started akatsuki soon after he lost his chance at the kyuubi and he figured he would need help getting all the tailed beasts

  84. Pein was a fagboy plain and simple. If painn and death breeds hate and more wars, HOW could it also bring peace??? dumass, just another tool being used by madara. His mentality was even more crippled then his body… Also j-man owned him, if he didnt let his guard down cuz he thought he killed pein, he’d still be alive.

  85. @Token, I’m not slamming Minato, it was a simple observation. Then I made another simple observation that character-wise and power-wise, Pain was better. considering Pain annihilated most of the fan favorite ninjas, you guys should be saying Pain WAS God, otherwise, you make Kakashi, Jiraiya, Salamander Hanzo and all of Konoha look weak.

    @CapObvious, welcome to Shannaro, I havent seen you prior to this discussion, so cheers. Your link is only 1 translation and the anime translators never used the word ordered. I could post the link to the anime if you so wish. The fact is, Pain and Madara founded Akatsuki together, while Pain was its recognized leader. And as of yet, we have no idea why Pain joined forces with Tobi. Why do you think Pain was the Akatsuki leader? Simple. He was the most powerful member, while Tobi stayed in the shadows and collaborated with him.

    Man you guys annoy me lol. And its mostly because you have guys tend to use the same arguments over and over again. Arguing last year about Pain was fun becuz Mart, Nemo Prime, Smartass and lilmoe weren’t anywhere near as repetitive as you guys are. Please, if you wish to continue to debate about Pain, BRING SOMETHING NEW TO THE TABLE! Otherwise, try thinking up theories (which I suck at :D)

  86. @Kizu
    Thanxs 4 the welcome. I thought the manga takes precedense over the anime,? theirs not that many manga providers who store old naruto chapters ergo not many translations sorces available and to B honest the anime went to hell after the Pein v. JMan fight- animation was just terible. If this blog spot is like the others i’ve seen than all arguments have been made, but flaming coments stil get responces, like in any other forum, reciclying is ineviteble since not all arguments are ever answered thouroughly…lol

  87. Man the who is the strongest ninja arguments never end. 😉 I think it is still to early for another “Who is the Strongest Ninja Tournament” debacle. What really interest’s me is what actually went down in the Kyuubi vs Minato fight, its going to be epic.

  88. I think it’s most likely that Mito is probably Kushina’s great-great-aunt or at least somewhere in the great aunt category. Tsunade would be old enough to be Kushina’s own mother and since Mito is Tsunade’s grandmother it would be pretty clear that Mito is pretty far in the great something or other category.

  89. a good point was made about pain, that his intelligence was over shadowed by the fact that he is super strong….. i think pain believed he was so strong that he didn’t have to alter his moves, which is why you see him using the same moves over and over again. no one knew his secrets until naruto came along. pain became too dependent on the moves he has used and never been defeated with before. why trouble yourself with intelligence if you believe that you are so strong that you will never be defeated??? it seemed that his ego (he got cocky) was his downfall (and only naruto gets away with beating all the enemies with the same old moves!!!), sorry kisu…..

  90. at the end of the day, had itachi been the fourth, he would have gone nuts and killed his wife and looked at the masked man and said, ‘now what?’ minato was a soft man, soft like a cake. Those who say its a difficult decision, of courrse it is, but there’s something called ‘the greater good’, if u can’t make the hard decisions then don’t rule. The fact that u r the most powerful ninja doesn’t mean u should rule, so his ftg nonsense comess to naught if he can’t make the really important decisions. konoha wouldnt have been destroyed by the kyuubi, people wouldnt have died and while minato would be haunted by what he did, the village he was sworn to protect would have been sorted.

  91. @madzikage
    If the 4th would have let Naruto died the the Naruto serie wouldnt existed… so get in the reality, it´s a fictional serie

  92. @madzikage Yeah, Minato killing Kushina and might have stopped the Kyuubi attack, but then we’d be calling this series Itachi as we see him struggle to fight the combined threats of Tobi, Pein and Orochimaru.

    Actually…That might make a good series. But Konoha would have been screwed anyhow, because no one would have stopped Oro’s invasion. And he still would have invaded, Sasuke or no Sasuke. Above wanting the Sharingan, Oro wanted Konoha destroyed. Sooo…Minato sacrificing his family to stop Tobi actually screws Konoha long term.

  93. @madzikage
    Did people acuatly loose ther life when the 9tailed apperad??? maybe the 4th sealed it in naruto before it could do any harm , and sacrcifised him self and Kushina for Naruto and the rest of the village

  94. @corvis
    Screws konoha at the long term… but in the even longer term he saves konoha by letting Naruto live and naruto beat Pein

  95. If Minato killed Kushina, Tobi would’ve killed Naruto, so, Konoha’s still screwed. Also, yes, many died when the 9 Tails attacked. Iruka’s parents being among them.

  96. ahh yeah he´s parent where killed by at the attack…
    and the reason the 4th act like he did wiht naruto is: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/440/08/

  97. @madzikage
    Maybe the reason why the 4th let Naruto live is beacuse Naruto was the last known with Whirlpool blood in him and maybe then the only one that can contain the 9tailed and by then still have the 9tailed on Konoha side and not on a enemy village…

  98. People say konoha was destroyed……where is thus stated? Sure people dies but that’s what happens when crazy people decide to attack your village lol. If minato ha killed kushina and let naruto die than what? Madara still probably would have attacked and perhaps killed minato Just for fun and he still may have tried to get the other tailed beasts. There may not have been a moon eye plan but there may have been another plan and he still probably would have tried to conquer the world. And with no naruto pein may have become a unstoppable lunatic who is madaras right hand man as madara rules the world. I would have to say given how everything has turned out thus far keeping naruto alive was not a bad idea. Family comes first I don’t care who u are not to mention minato was smart and he somehow balanced the good of the village and saving.his son by giving him a power o PROTECT the village from madara later on as minato stated that he was unable to defeat madara as he seemed to read his every move

  99. @dennkim, Iruka lost his parents due to the Kyubi’s attack. And if the Kyubi was dead, then Pain would have had no need to invade Konoha.

    @Corvis, Konoha stopped Oro’s Invasion, and once they counter attacked they did it with relative ease lol. Guy and Kakashi alone took out at least 40 Sound and Sand ninja and Asuma (FREAKING ASUMA!!!!) took out 2 squads of Sound Jonin. All Naruto did was take out Gaara, and if Naruto at that level took out Gaara, then so could Jiraiya or Kakashi or Guy.

  100. @Token, if the the Kyubi didnt exist, Pain would have NO reason to create Akatsuki or work with Madara. lso I think you’re watching the anime too much lol. That’s the only place where Pain is a screaming maniac lol

  101. @kisuzachi
    NO reason… how about he´s parents getting killed by konoha

  102. @Roki, if that was the reason he came to Konoha he would have done that decades ago. The fact is, Pain didnt want to destroy Konoha. In fact, he said to Tsunade that akatsuki wouldnt be averse to helping Konoha in the future if she just cooperates and tell him where the Kyubi is. She threw his offer in his face and then, to him, basically said that only Konoha deserves peace. Tsunade’s the one that destroyed Konoha because she’s the one that rekindled Pain’s hatred for Konoha by taunting him.

    Anyhoo, my point still stands. He only went to Konoha to get the Kyubi, everything else was just a distraction and damage suffered only because Konoha retaliated.

  103. @kisu not sure that would have been true. Pein believed the plan was to capture all the tailed beasts so he could have a monopoly and have control over the nations (only madara mentioned the moon eye plan). The kyuubi may have been dead but there were still eight other beasts and the nations would have still been in panic if all the tailed beasts were taken. Not to mention without a tailed beast on konohas side should they be attacked by other nations they had no secret weapon up their sleeve to protect themselves. In essence minato had to maintain possession of the kyuubi so that konoha still had their trump card.

  104. Pein would have attacked Konoha some times, beacuse he´s big goal was to bring peas to the ninja world thrue pain and suffering, the tailed beast was just a side goal to the big goal, so even if the 9tailed wasn´t in the konohas hand Pein would have attacked them sooner or later to bring his peas thrue pain

  105. And duh konoha retaliated lol pein invaded their village. Not to mention pein was using the kyuubi to conquer the world…. yea just let konoha hand over naruto so they could lose one of the strongest ninja to a person who would rule over them anyways…. not the brightest idea I’d say lol. Last I checked pein nuked the village

    . If he wanted to negotiate y not do it formally and talk to her about it? Nope pein di what he always did and used brute force and.forced konoha to fight back. When u see 6 ninja causing destruction who wouldn’t fight back?

  106. Pein would have attacked Konoha some times, beacuse he´s big goal was to bring peas to the ninja world thrue pain and suffering, the tailed beast was just a side goal to the big goal, so even if the 9tailed wasn´t in the konohas hand Pein would have attacked them sooner or later to bring his peace thrue pain

  107. On a side note maybe kushina tells minato to step aside and lets madara extrack the kyuubi… although that process would probably take forever and leave a opening for minato to strike. But seeing as how minato looks to fight the kyuubi without her madara provably gave naruto to minato in exchange for kishina and took out the kyuubi as minato stood by with naruto. Perhaps her special chakra allowed her to live long enough to lend minato chakra during the ensuing battle and sealing of the east

  108. @Token “. Pein believed the plan was to capture all the tailed beasts so he could have a monopoly and have control over the nations (only madara mentioned the moon eye plan). ”
    NO! That’s what he told Akatsuki! The akatsuki is full of greedy and corrupt bastards so he couldnt have told them the truth, that they were fighting for peace lol. Just imagine how HIDAN would have reacted lol. THIS IS HIS REAL MOTIVE! He plans to use all nine Biju to create a super weapon, then LET THE COUNTRIES USE IT THEMSELVES (HE WONT USE IT AGAINST THEM, THEY WILL USE IT THEMSELVES!), and thus they will be afraid to experience that pain ever again, until a few generations down the road uses it again. Thus there will be short bursts of peace throughout history.


    “who would rule over them anyways”
    You tell me Pain just wants to rule the world? LOOK AT NAGATO’S BODY! He couldnt have had much time left to live anyway, so what benefit would ruling the world have for him? He devoted the rest of his life to carrying out Yahiko’s dream and look where it got him, IN A HUGE FRIKKIN WHEELCHAIR THINGY! C’mon, think. The guy just wanted peace and had given up on trying to find it with talk. When you compare Nagato and Naruto, Nagato has arguably more determination in finding that peace. He gave up his body for peace, and when his views on peace were changed, he didnt do what normal bad guys do and “self-destruct”. He accepted that his way of finding peace was “wrong” and made amends by reviving everyone at the cost of his own life.

    “If he wanted to negotiate y not do it formally and talk to her about it?”
    1. He’s the leader of Akatsuki
    2. Tsunade said that all Akatsuki members should be captured dead or alive.

    “When u see 6 ninja causing destruction who wouldn’t fight back?”
    Yes, and this is where all that damage to Konoha came from. Had they handed over Naruto all of it would have been avoided.

    @eddi, you’re wrong. The Biju were his main goal (because they would lead him to his true purpose, peace), otherwise he would have attacked konoha years ago. If the Kyubi didnt exist his plan would mean nothing becuz obviously his super weapon requires ALL 9 Biju, otherwise he would have just captured Killerbee and use the 8 Biju to power it.

    Please, read my previous “Pain” posts and maybe then you people will understand this character more. I wrote them last year and they’re on Shannaro. I really wont respond to any more replies because I have already proven my point.

  109. Kisu for one why tHe hell would pein care what the other members thought? !?!?! He is supposed to be their leader not a scared little puppy who thought He would rub people the wrong way. And pein definitely does not have more determination than naruto he gave up on his original plan cause his poor friend died…. man he needed to grow up. He acted like he was the only one experiencing pain and suffering. What like other people didn’t? Pein used his suffering a an excuse and in the end he realized he was WRONG. Naruto showed him the light and he was changed. Looks to me like naeutos determination was able to convert nagatos. And we all see what happens When one uses super weapons like the tailed beasts… there was still war and pain. Pain was just egotistical and tricked by madara who used peins past as a way of manipulating him. Madara was the true leader and the moon eye plan is the real objective Not creating a secret weapon. You r so stuck in the little wold of pein that u ignore what the real plan actually was. O and BTW love how u stopped the pein talk lol. And how UT quotes that he said made no sense in the first place. Super weapons cause fear but there is always someone willing to fight against tyranny and atop it from happening. Han over naruto? R u really That special lol naruto was the villages trump card and one of its strongest ninja y do that? And u said it captured dead or alive
    Y not willingly be taken and talk to tsunade behind bars. He could have broken out if they tried to kill him or don’t listen.

  110. And that was my last pein post lol. I am sure people are tired of the pein arguments so ill stop my end of it. One thing that is weird though is where is saritobi in all this? His wife was there and Wouldn’t he be a awesome bodyguard for naruto? He should have been stationed either outside with the anbu as their general or stayed close to minato. This was the kyuubi We are talking about and I would think the third would be helpful should anything go wrong.

  111. “Kisu for one why tHe hell would pein care what the other members thought? !?!?!:” For one, they wouldnt follow him or even have joined the organization. Hidan wants to kill lots of people, Kakuzu wants a lot of money, Kisame wants destruction, Deidara wants to keep blowing shit up cuz that his “art”, Sasori wants to keep stocking up on corpses to make human puppets. None of these guys wanted peace so they wouldnt have joined.

    “And how UT quotes that he said made no sense in the first place” Have you ever been in a war? Those who experience only want peace while its going on, but down the road they forget what that pain felt like and inflict it on others. Pain’s plan was to make EVERYONE feel that pain so the entire world would have a mutual understanding of pain and fear. That in and of itself is what Jiraiya wanted, people to understand each other.

    “Pain was just egotistical and tricked by madara who used peins past as a way of manipulating him” You’re partially correct. Madara used Pain’s past and Pain’s goal to manipulate him, but you’re wrong when you say Pain was egotistical.

    Egotistical means:

    1. pertaining to or characterized by egotism.
    2. given to talking about oneself; vain; boastful; opinionated.
    3. indifferent to the well-being of others; selfish.

    Pain was indifferent to others’ well-being? THAT’S WHY HE WAS FIGHTING! He wanted peace for everyone. Why cant you get that through your skull? He said it over and over again. If you think the means to achieving that end is wrong, then that’s your opinion, but you cant dispute his motive.

    “Y not willingly be taken and talk to tsunade behind bars.” Because he is the leader of amegakure and isnt a criminal. And at that point, what would talking achieve? They’d just try to get info out of him through Ibiki’s torturing. If he talked they still wouldnt understand because the lack the knowledge of pain.

    “Han over naruto? R u really That special lol naruto was the villages trump card and one of its strongest ninja y do that? ” Didnt I tell you that if you aren’t mature enough to debate without reverting to insults, at least make them funny and or creative. Naruto was also the target Pain was after.

    “And pein definitely does not have more determination than naruto he gave up on his original plan cause his poor friend died”
    He gave up on his plan because he saw just how fruitless it was. Hanzo and Danzo didnt want to talk, the wanted action. In a world of ninjas, talking accomplishes nothing. Ninjas only respect power, and that is why Nagato’s plan makes more sense in the Naruverse than Naruto’s. I said he ARGUABLY has more determination in his goals because he put his body through complete hell so that one day there can be peace. He pushed himself beyond his limits, bleeding several times and coughing up blood. Naruto summarizes Nagato better than I ever could.


    Dude, stop blasting Pain. He fought for the same thing Naruto, Jiraiya and Minato fought for, just in a different way. The sheer fact that we’ve been “debating” his character for weeks proves that he IS a deep character. Facts you cant deny are how strong he was, how smart he was and his goals.

  112. @Token, Sarutobi was retired lol. Im sure not even HE thought the (useless) Anbu could have been taken out so easily. Plus she had the Hokage with her. He couldnt have foreseen all of that, lus he’s earned a nice retirement wouldnt u say? lol

  113. True he’s earned retirement but couldn’t this be a pretty important event? If child birth is when the seal is extremely weak I would think he could help keep a guard up. Hell he’s better than the anbu squad he should have been there an let them do meaningless tasks lol. Granted this is hindsight but still just one squad of anbu with the hokage busy trying to keep the seal intact? I mean even if madara didn’t show up there is still the possibility of the kyuubi becoming free and the third and fourth together would have been a great tandem.

  114. I suppose, but then again both of the people (Danzo could, but I doubt he would) capable of protecting Konoha couldnt be gone at the same time lol. Remember this whole thing was kept a secret so I doubt he’d think that more than 1 squad would be necessary. Plus to keep it a secret means he’d have to limit the man power because 7 ppl (1 squad of 4 Anbu + Minato, Third’s wife and Kushina) are less detectable than, oh let’s say, 31 lol.

  115. @kisuzachi

    calm down dude… get urself a couple of them good ole chill pills from uncle bill.

    im not sure if u’re horsing around or u’re being serious, but i’ll take it as a serious point from u.

    back when i “kinda” supported pain’s views everyone on this blog tried to cast my ass away. i respect that kind of logic and it IS just to an extent. but what i basically said is it’s too soon to figure out what happened. we all make consistent theories, but only those with the craziest theories out there get to be right, lol.

    what i’m trying to say is, blaming the blond dude at this point is pointless. we don’t know what happened. and we all know that he said that he was neither match nor as good as the masked dude. the masked dude saw through everything he tried to do. if it wasn’t for the secrets of the sealing jutsu, shit wouldn’t have been contained like they were, and the price paid might have been extremely higher.

    now even if minato rasen-blew the brains out of his wife’s red head, and put a tomb stone on kyuubi’s memories forever, that doesn’t mean that the entire world can go against some powerful freak with 8 tailed beasts to boost (which he would have eventually gathered). so taking the risk of sealing the nine tailed maniac inside his son’s ass might have been the only way to hope for a fight against mr. madara wanabe.

    i advice more comfortable underwear in the future. wedgies are NOT good for communication.

  116. If the the was there the number would be cut down to 4. With the third their no need for anbu. Not to mention if he was considered retired than why not go to minato as there would have been ninja available for the village plus 4 extra useless anbu to add to the village defenses

  117. all this pein talk is sickning… in the end he dies, he wasnt the most powerfull cuz naruto owned him so enuff of this pein talk… His ideals and goals were preposterous.

    Also who is to say that a rasengan to the face of kushina would of killed her and the kyuubi?? are we forgetting how strong the kyuubi is?? For all we kno that could of realeased the kyubi and then were back to square one… Minato gave the village a chance to defend itself against future attk’s by sealing the kyuubi inside naruto and sacrificing his own life?? Any other option would have benifited madara.. All the people saying he should have killed kushina are down right stupid… if im not mistaken wen sasuke punched a whole in narutos chest all dat did was make the kyubbi angry and take over narutos body,,… In the end madara would have still taacken controll of the kyuubi and there would be no naruto to seal it in, thus the destruction of the entire village would have happend that nite… idiots….

  118. LOL well said beast, well said.

    you basicaly summed up everything i wanted to say in one word “idiots” lol.

    I was going to get in on the debate, but you pretty much handled it like a pimp.

  119. @beast, killing the host kills the biju. The Kyubi was afraid that it’d die when Naruto fought Kabuto and is the only reason the Kyubi gives Naruto chapter. So Minato could have rasenganed her brains out and save a lot of lives. Itachi had to, so why couldnt the Hokage lol? I like thinking inside of the box as much as the next guy, but sometimes u gotta go outside.

    @token “i advice more comfortable underwear in the future. wedgies are NOT good for communication.”
    ROFLMAO! Dude that was awesome! Now those are the kinda insults that re funny lol. It takes a big man to laugh at himself 🙂

  120. oops, I meant “…and is the only reason the Kyubi gives Naruto CHAKRA” not “chapter” lol

  121. I have a good theory about Naruto’s whisker’s, I’m not sure if some has already point it out up above,.. but I think the whisker came from when Naruto is still inside Kushina’s womb it might be possible that the kyubi’s chakra is leaking out to naruto 😀 isn’t that the reason why naruto has the amazing regenaration ability….?????

  122. now im off to watch the new Avatar (the last airbender, not the one with freaky blue ppl) movie. Lol I know its probably gonna suck as hard as Dragonball Evolution suck, but hey, I gotta see it to bash it properly :). Here’s hoping they never make a live action Naruto movie *imagines a CGI Kyubi* *shudders at the thought*

  123. Ummmm kisu honestly I couldn’t care less if my insult r funny or Not… if I wanted to be funny I wouldn’t insult u lol. I only insult people who irritate me I don’t try to be funny about it

  124. @hall I’m not sure but I thought the amazing chakra stores and stamina were already in naruto but the regeneration abilities came from the fox being inside him after he was born. The whiskers theory though is probably right it would make sense that some of the foxes chakra leaked into him while still in the womb.

  125. well i gotta say that movie wasnt half as bad as i expected, but it was still pretty bad lol. Apparently Firebenders need FIRE to bend now lol

    @Token, so you werent joking? Ok, now i got my feelings hurt O_O

  126. Lol kisu ur so cool about it I’m not sure anymore ;-p

  127. Madzikage, please just give it up, Itachi would have killed Kushina but I’m sure he would have look at all option before doing it! He could have knocked this guy into a genjutsu then took him down! Remember Madara isn’t as strong as he use to be!

    @Kisu I think you are letting you love for Pein over exaggerate his power, he may have had the Rinnegan and was super strong but he was too predictable and the Kyuubi was stronger, I’m sorry if that hurts you but he wasn’t as great as you think! A ninja is judged by his intelligence that’s why the Fourth and Third Hokage was so great they both were smart and Naruto may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but he is smart enough not to be manipulated by this jack ass!

  128. Pein was strong but no the strongest we’ve seen so far, then why did Naruto beat him! Naruto is the strongest and now Sasuke!

  129. @Kisu-

    “beast, killing the host kills the biju. The Kyubi was afraid that it’d die when Naruto fought Kabuto and is the only reason the Kyubi gives Naruto chapter”

    Yea, see the kyuubi was confused on why its power was fading, not afraid of dying, but same difference i guess. Naruto’s seal wasnt weakened then though, Kushina’s was, her dying would have only prematurly released the kyuubi with her severely weakened seal, therefor making any arguments of killing the one women he loves most a complete idiotic statement since it would have only helped Maddara, and killed the only vessel problably with any hope of controling the kyuubi (naruto).

    Also the juubi would have broken out of his seal within the Sage, because the sage would have died but the juubi was to powerful. Now the Kyuubi may not be AS strong, but its the second strongest next to the Juubi, and with a such a weakened seal that even with outside help it was almost breaking free, it would have escaped anyway.

    And itachi didnt kill his brother did he? His brother who’s been rage killing everyone he could for the past 30 chapters or so, so obviously minato isnt entitled for shit is he? And besides sealing kyuubi in naruto was the best choice, minato knew he couldnt outpower maddara, since technicaly nobody can, so he just outsmarted him, and set up a power in his son to finish what he couldnt. Obviously the man is more than worthy of the title hokage.

  130. @ kisuzachi, on July 3, 2010 at 8:52
    said @eddi, you’re wrong. The Biju were his main goal (because they would lead him to his true purpose, peace…
    what is that?? the purpose is a goal and there 4 the big goal…

  131. Actually it’s the same mask of “Madara” drawn here in chapter 400. ^_^

  132. “her dying would have only prematurly released the kyuubi with her severely weakened seal” We dont know that. What we DO know however is that when a Jinchuriki dies, its Biju dies as well. Naruto’s seal was weakened in the Pain fight, but Pain still held back because he knew killing a transformed NAruto would also be killing the Kyubi. Besides, what would be the difference between Madara releasing the Kyubi or Minato accidentally releasing it? Either way everyone’s screwed. But then again, Minato isnt to blame here, HASHIRAMA GETS THE BLAME! The Sage had no choice in splitting the biju apart, but Hashirama did. He could have just ordered the Biju to fire Menacing Balls (lol menacing balls lol) down each others’ throats.

    “Also the juubi would have broken out of his seal within the Sage” The very first seal cant be held to the same standards as today’s seals.

    “And itachi didnt kill his brother did he” Was Sasugay a threat back then? Well he apparently has a contingency plan for Sasugay’s going off the deep-end. Oh, and happy 4th of July to you Smartass and other Americans here 😀

    “what is that?? the purpose is a goal and there 4 the big goal…” yes, but for one goal to be accomplished, one needs to be accomplished 1st, thus it isnt a side goal, and at the time would have been his main goal lol

    “but he was too predictable and the Kyuubi was stronger” I never said Pain was stronger than the Kyubi, EVER. All I said was that Pain can beat it/subdue it. Anywhoo, no one predicted Pain’s past, or that he was Jiraiya’s student, or his jutsus, or his tragic past or that he’d blow up Konoha, now did they? 😉

    In hindsight, Kishi needs to come up with better attack names. Menacing Ball? WTF? How about Blow Shit Up no Jutsu? or Annihilation Cannon…no jutsu? lol

  133. Why does every chapter discusion allways havte end with how pein is that or this?? it´s so boring to keep here about him… HE´S DEAD NOW SO JUST DROP THAT DUDE

  134. @sick of pein, yeah these guys just cant let go. 🙂

  135. “fire Menacing Balls (lol menacing balls lol) down each others’ throats.” Lol in hindsight this sounds so gross and wrong…..unless Biju dont have genders?

  136. the man behind the mask seems to know way too much to be madara uchiha, and when i say too much, i mean he knows too much about Konoha and what was going on with Itachi and The Elders. Itachi wouldnt have willing told Madara or the Man Behind the Mask all this info that he is revealing in chapter 400, simply because he didnt trust him with all this info. And the fact that the man behind the mask says, And Itachi figured out i was still a live, says a lot, so if you all want to believe that the man behind the mask is Madara Uchiha, smh at you, WHERES COOKIE?


  138. people need to firstly contextualise this whole manga, it exists in the world of ninja. People who pretty much kill for a living. Minato not killing kushina was just weak. Pein is badass, and all he wanted was peace and yes, peace by military does exist (see US global dominance and the fact that because of nukes, we won’t have a 3rd world war). his policy was the right one; create a super weapon and create fear. Yes, i don’t believe in democracy or these pussy freedoms that divert from control in the pursuit of peace. You people just don’t look at the bigger picture… Open ur eyes!

  139. in chapter 140 page 4, what did Kabuto mean when he said that Orichmaru took care of 2 out of the 5 kages? was he just trying to be funny, because the 3rd was technically the 5th too, because he retired and came back. and why does orichmaru have so many characteristics of the uchihas, except for the eyes…

  140. @the truth
    Itachi died when he was 21, and became an ANBU CAPTAIN at the age of 13, if he had met Madara at this age or even younger then that explains why the Masked man was taller than him. Sasuke was 16-17 when he met the Masked man.

  141. @rinnegan go look at the picture, he couldnt of been that young

  142. In the manga Tsunade was the only one out of the 3 OVERRATED SANNIN (except Orochimaru, he wasn’t overrated to me) to get classified. Nobody knows the clan Orochimaru or Jiraiya came from

  143. @the truth
    if you read rest of that chapter you can se that he killed the Kazekage and disguised as him http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/140/08/
    so the kazekage is the first he killed and tha hokage was the second..

  144. @truth
    Yeah I know what you mean, for some odd reason Kishi gave Itachi bags under his eyes, I guess to show the difference of age between him and Sasuke, or Itachi had got the disease at a very young age, and remember Itachi died at the age of 21 http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Itachi he fled Konoha 8 yrs ago

  145. @polka, thats whats up, i thought he was referring to only hokages of the hidden leaf, thanx

  146. what was the disease exactly, and how did he get it

  147. Madara doesn’t explain the illness, but he did say Itachi was using medication and his strong will to fight it off.

  148. do you think someone poisoned him? or was it really some kind of illness.

  149. I think it was just a disease he got at birth. at the time Itachi was the 2nd strongest while he was in Konoha (3rd Hokage being the 1st), so if he did get poisoned, it was probably due to a fight he had went through on a mission, you can get rid of some poisons but in most cases you can’t get rid of diseases.

  150. the selection criteria for hokages is extremely poor. I used to be a minato fan, but after seeing this flashback it proves he couldn’t do the right thing at the right time. The 3rd also shows poor form because he should have been present at the birth. Retirement my arse when u r the village’s most jutsu knowledgeable ninja (Kishi needs to say he had left the village on holiday or something just to redeem him. Additionally, Oro’s experiments & attack, the massacre of the uchiha
    The 2nd is just a pretty face on a mountain.
    Tsunade, gets pwned by Pein and has him blow up the better part of the village.
    I honestly sympathise with the late danzou, his kages were too soft to lead a hidden village filled with ninja.

  151. Madz u say all these kage were weak…. konoha is still intact! They all fulfilled their duties to the village and saved them during each invasion. Minato give konoha a secret weapon should madara show up again the third at least for a time even at his age made oro literally powerless for a few months not to mention tsunade used her summon to protect the villagers. And u said minato showed poor judgement…. we don’t even know what he does yet! Have to wait till next chapter. And madz u said there can be peace thru war? Yea our war on terrorism is great an we are experiencing great peace huh? Even though we can’t even go in downtown NYC cause some lunatics may bomb us. An as for the nuclear power Japan is already in the midst It creating warheads the likes that we can not make here. Weapons of mass destruction brings fear to be sure. But peace through war cannot be achieved. Violence begets violence and hatred more hatred. That not peace and if u want a Communist environment go to the China see how much they enjoy their freedom…..or lack thereof

  152. Being a hokage does not always mean u will be the strongest ninja but u know what They still pulled out victories. Obviously madara lost as he left the village an the kyuubi power is for the battle against him. A old decrepit 3rd fought both hokages beat them both and neutralized oros sealing powers for a time all in one battle. And the two mentioned don’t deserve to be hokage? Than who do u think should have been in their place? Fanzine? A Guy who couldn’t handle sasuke. And got killed a lot and got reckless? Yea good choice lol

  153. Danzo * not fanzine lol

  154. @ the truth, Rinnegan Invasion

    I have already said this to an older post. MEDICALLY speaking (although in Naruverse the laws of medicine and nature are not followed that much, are they?), Itachi probably had Tuberculosis (TB: it’s a mycobacterium, not a virus), that’s why the cough, the gasping, the gush of blood and his so thin body. Akatsuki were spending their time in sunless caves or out in the rain while sealing the bijū, so it was something that would unavoidably happen and the medicines just prolonged a little bit his life. TB is curable only in the first stages, but it was obviously too late for him, when they had always to travel from place to place without any rest. (Kimimaro probably had the same illness and he died only 15 years old, after spending most of his life in a sunless, humid prison and then in Oro’s hideout).

    Psychological state is also an important factor in this illness: Itachi was always sad and sorrowful, because of his tragic past and his even more tragic and predestined future: he knew he was going to die (and he wanted to die by his brother’s hands), probably in vain, as he suspected that Sasuke wouldn’t obey his dying wish to return to Konoha.

  155. @madzikage

    Whoa whoa whoa, slow down! We haven’t even seen the whole story yet. My guess is the circumstances are as follows:

    1. Minato & Kushina meet and eventually fall in love.
    2. Kushina decides she has to tell Minato about her status, or he is told only once he is selected to become Hokage.
    3. Minato chooses to stay with Kushina, he loves her anyway, and in the spirit of Mito Kushina needs love to bear the Kyuubi so this seems the correct choice.
    4. They have a child… I don’t know if you’ve ever been in love, but that is one urge that is hard to avoid (not necessarily the having a kid part, but definitely the… well you know…)

    The village could have forbid Kushina from having a baby, but Mito survived it, and they probably didn’t want to piss off the Bloody Halbernero!

    Also, would you kill your own child? We have already settled this one, as Danzo would do anything for his village, sacrifice others and himself. Sarutobi protected all others above all else, the villagers ARE the village and they are ALL important.

    With this in mind, why should Minato sacrifice his son for the village’s sake, at this point he didn’t know what would happen. You could say he was in the same place as the White Fang. My guess is that to Minato losing his life is a sore loss, as well as his wife losing her life.

    BUT (I’m not a parent yet, but in a year or so maybe) any parent who loves their child would give their life so that their child would live. This is what Minato and Kushina did.

    As to the 3rd Hokage, someone had to watch over the village. If the Kyuubi broke out and started rampaging, who would come up with a plan to save the village then?

    Also, life isn’t easy. Grow up madzikage. Hokage are the strongest ninjas in the village, but this also means that they are the only ones who can stand up to the toughest problems. It doesn’t mean they always will win, but they always have to try. The fact that they do, even against tough odds, shows that they deserve to be Hokage.

  156. @Rip: YES!!! I totally agree!!

  157. @Wo Ai Ni, Okay so he died because he didn’t get enough sunlight? To me he looked sicked even when he was in Konoha. I don’t think he was that sad, I mean what type of person kills their own parents? I still believe that the Uchiha massacre is BULL. I don’t think Madara is telling the whole truth to his story. I also think that Danzo, Hiruzen, and the elders had some kind of influence of Massacre

    @Token, do you think Tsunade would of stood a chance if she went against Sasuke? If Danzo fought Tsunade, who will you pick to be victorius? Although Danzo lost against Sasuke, I think he was alot better than people give him credit for. Oro tried to take over Itachi’s body but was easily defeated, but the 3rd lost against Orochimaru even though he left his arms paralyzed. The only Hokage that has never been defeated was the 1st.

  158. I meant to say Madara is NOT telling the whole truth

  159. Well, you guys asked what his illness really was from the medical aspect and I gave this aspect, I know what I’m talking about. And who said that in Konoha he lived a happy and healthy life? They put a 13 year old CHILD to become the leader of ANBU, thus going all the time on missions for killing criminals, what a wonderful childhood.

    And I still believe he was always sad, although he was never showing it, he had the fame of being completely emotionless. Apart from the whole story with Sasuke and his hatred and revenge (I would personally be sorrowful if I knew that my younger brother hates me like nothing else in this world and is eager for everything, even to give his body to a pedo just for killing me, while I would be innocent), Itachi hated killing and that’s exactly what he was forced to do all the time. That’s why he was using his Tsukuyomi so much (thus deteriorating his health), he preferred to knock out his opponents in seconds than killing them. The conversation of whether the Uchiha massacre is a lie or not, is another story.

  160. @ripcord & token: the reason life isn’t easy for you is the exact same reason that you are destined to be part of the many ruled by the few. I know about leading and having people depend on you and not in a short-sighted ‘I’m the varsity football captain’ plebeian way, and to be quite frank with you, its a cold and lonely place at the top but that’s exactly what you sign up for when u go there… Perhaps you will be granted that opportunity one day, and u will see that at most times logic must supersede emotion.
    @token: war on terror, fear of going downtown in NYC. Well that is a completely different situation, I’m talking about world war on ur own nation soil, major weapons prevent that kind of thing, (see detente) and to be quite honest, Pein’s methodology is like hashirama’s, give ultimate weapons to effect a ‘peace’, but the simple problem was that those weapons were not strong enough, I mean what good is a weapon that 1. Mostly has to be sealed and 2. Has a tendency towards attacking its host country. PS: from a first hand account, China is nowhere close to being as bad as you assume; don’t just assume the world is what your media tells you.
    Finally, yes we don’t know what he is going to do, but the whole point of a theory is speculation and based off of what we know and logic I think that that’s the best option, kill the host kill the bijuu, save the village preemptive strike way! The hokage’s (3rd, 4th, 5th particularly) were able to ‘clean’ up their messes eventually, but my issue is why sit and let the tomato sauce fall just because you know you have a mop.

  161. @ Kisu did you say that Pein held back in the fight with Naruto, oh come on he said it himself that he couldn’t hold back because the Kyuubi was so strong you are completely delusional if you think Pein was this real God like Shinobi yeah he had some awesome techniques that were insanely strong like Chibaku Tensei but he wasn’t strong enough to stop Naruto if he was he wouldn’t have lost! Naruto would not have been able to defeat all six Peins if he was super strong!

  162. Why is everyone talking about killing Kushina and the Bijuu? If you were the Hokage and you were thinking of the village and the people then that would be the last thing you would do!

    If Minato killed Kushina which would kill the Kyuubi then Konohas power would be cut down dramatically, the reason they are as strong as they are is because they have the strongest Bijuu, it would make them way more vulnerable! The best option would be to let Naruto die and protect Kushina but then there wouldn’t be a Naruto Manga/anime would they! That is the sacrifice that he would have to make if he was thinking of the village and the people!

    I believe Minato is thinking of his wife and his son right now and how he is going to save them! He will doeverytihng he can to save Naruto which will give the Kyuubi the chance to escape killing Kushina and Attacking the village then Minato will seal him inside Naruto!

  163. @ WO Ai Ni, Itachi was sick because the over use of Susanoo. just look at Sasuke and what he said when he was fighting the Mizukage and the Summit, Itachi was coughing up blood and so did Sasuke!

  164. @ Madzikage, I really don’t want to say this but just SHUT THE HELL UP! If the third and fourth had been at the birth who would protect the village if something else happened dumbass!
    We it comes to Minato we don’t know how he reacted and even if he did attack Madara instead of killing Kushina then so WHAT? The guy has his son threatening to kill him! You are crazily stupid because first you don’t have all the information to draw a real conclusion, all you are doing is predicting and grasping at straws, and this masked Akatsuki guy clearly isn’t a push over because if he was I would totally agree with you!

    I also want to say in respect to the second Hokage nobody know squat about him to you should keep that opinion to yourself and when if comes to Tsunade I honestly agree with she is useless, the only thing she did was heal people and lots of them still died!

  165. “A Guy who couldn’t handle sasuke.” Danzo was holding back against Sasuke becuz he thought he’d have to fight Madara next. Sasuke took advantage of this and w/e Karin’s help claimed a victory….well a draw because if Madara wasnt there, Sasugay would have been absorbed by Danzo’s Reverse Four Element Seal becuz he didnt know about it.

    @Woi Ai Ni, THAT MAKES COMPLETE SENSE! Before this I was just saying Itachi had ninja AIDS

    “he said it himself that he couldn’t hold back because the Kyuubi was so strong” I’ll let my links talk for me Yellowflash lol

  166. lol, maybe Tsunade should have let all of those sick ppl die, cuz Pain would have brought them back and they wouldnt have to go through all that suffering lol.

    @Yellowflash, I completely agree with EVERYTHING Madzi has said. Tsunade’s and Hiruzen’s main gripe with Danzo was that he made decisions based on facts rather than whatever they used…in the real world that IS how you make decisions. Hiruzen let 3 12 year old kids go on a C-rank mission when they should only be doing D-ranks becuz the kid begged him lol. Zabuza almost killed them all in the 1st encounter! But I suppose Wednesday you’ll be eating your words when you see that killing Kushina would have been best.

  167. wow sasuke is so cute …im so happy to see him in this chap even as a baby . . . 🙂

  168. @Hawk, THIS is cute? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/480/14-15/

  169. I really feel that the “Madara” now is not the real uchiha madara, in the previous chapters he has stated that he has a stubborn chakra that is why he cannot die, which in this case refers to the eddy village, they have long lives and also he stated that he wanted to seal the juubi into him, but in order to seal such a massive monster, he must of course know high ranked sealing techniques, in considering this two factors i really believe that the “madara” now is a survivor of the uzumaki clan 😀

  170. Wow! U know poeple hate certain characters when they start bashing a caracter when they dont even know what they did. lol Why is everyone bashing wat Minato didnt do? hahaha Think about it this way if an I say if Minato had killed his wife and the nine tails does in deed die that creates a power vacuum which would in all likelyhood cause another war with other nations which would in fact B more costly in terms of life an there is no guarantee this so called Mandara will keep his promise and return Naruto safe an sound. People are just character bashing at this point. Sennin overrated, waoh, people R delusional. hahaha

  171. @Obvious, but the Sannin are Overrated in some situations, in some situations they’re not. I don’t hate them or anything but here’s the facts.

    Itachi > Orochimaru
    Itachi > Tsunade
    Itachi > Jiraiya

    Pein > Orochimaru
    Pein > Tsunade
    Pein > Jiraiya

    Kabuto > Tsunade
    Minato > Jiraiya
    Minato > Orochimaru

    Hidan > Tsunade
    Kakuzu > Tsunade

    I didn’t mention Hanzo or The Masked man because we don’t know what they’re capable of,

  172. Oh yeah
    Kisame > Jiraiya
    Kisame > Tsunade

    Samui looks > Tsunade looks

  173. @Rinegan Invasion
    Itachi > Orochimaru- give u that one although Orochi never realy tried 2 kill him, non lethal force.
    Itachi > Tsunade- we have never seen her ful abilities
    Itachi > Jiraiya-No way Jiriaya is stronger that is obvious. lol

    Pein > Orochimaru- Pretty much yeah… I guess
    Pein > Tsunade- tsunade’s focus was on protecting the village, not 2 fight, but its likely
    Pein > Jiraiya- I disagre on this one, J-Man is stronger, no doubt

    Kabuto > Tsunade- no way of knowing kabutos current abilitys maybe tie.
    Minato > Jiraiya- 4th died 2 young the problem with that people can eventualy surpas the dead, J-Man could have stil improved.
    Minato > Orochimaru-Sennin are al Kage level in their own rite, but i guess minato beats oro.

    Hidan > Tsunade- no even imortals can be incapacitated, tsunade takes it
    Kakuzu > Tsunade-tsunade is stil at an edge intimate knowledge of human fisiology.

    Kisame > Jiraiya- thats bull, not even in a joke. lol J man wins.
    Kisame > Tsunade-tsunade still hold a strong chance against shark dude.

    Samui looks > Tsunade looks- they are basicaly the same.

  174. Pein > Jiraiya- We all seen what happen, Jiraiya lost, even if he didn’t know about the other bodies. You always gotta keep your guard up. Pein say Jiraiya would of won if he knew his secrets, so would alot of ninja if they knew they’re opponents secrets & abilities beforehand.

    Itachi > Jiraiya- Strength doesn’t win fights all the time, it’s all about abilities and strategies, Shikamaru is a prime example. Can a Toad summon really beat Susanoo? Itachi wins.

    Kabuto > Tsunade- Watch their fight in pt1. Kabuto had her beat, but who jumps in? Our hero Naruto.

    Hidan > Tsunade- this is debatable, All Hidan needs is a drop a blood, it shouldn’t be that hard if Kabuto made her bleed

    Minato > Jiraiya- Minato created Rasengan, and Kushina stated in the latest chapter that Minato learned alot of sealing techniques from the Eddy’s village. Toad summons wouldn’t work because they’re both under contract, and that is all Jiraiya relies on. Minato wins.

    Samui looks way better lol, but everything else is debatable I guess. You might be right about Jiraiya winning over Kisame, but remember his sword absorbs energy

  175. @Rinegan invasion
    Jman was not hit or effected by peins techs during his scuffle with the three pein bodies. fight was over no need to guard, they were dead plus it was a whole other bodie that caught him of guard, the only thing secret was the number of bodys, that wat did jman in nothin more, jman would have won in the end. As a pein supporter you provably dont think naruto beat him, pein in the up an up, wasnt pein caught of guard? jman is no slouch in strategy himself an summoning is one of the few things he can do, its like sayin pein only has the rinnegan goin 4 him, admit it pein had unfair edvantage. Itachi like Jman use strategy, but jman outclasses itachi completely in stamina, the key factor, since they are basicaly same in stats the only diferensce is that Jman would win in long run. Kisame sword didn’t help much against toad mouth trap. hahaha

  176. @Obvious
    Jiraiya only faced 3 of the 6 paths. Animal Path- Used beast summons, Preta Path- absorbed chakra energy, Human Path- uses Taijutsu and reads minds. Those bodies were not the most effective bodies, I guess Pein underestimated his power, but Jiraiya forgot a very important rule “Never let your guard down”, When Itachi and Orochimaru were walking, Orochimaru tried to catch Itachi off guard, but Itachi easily owned him with Tsukuyomi, now this leads me up too Itachi vs Jiraiya. According to Kakashi, Tsukuyomi can only be broken by a sharigan user that shares the same blood, Tsukuyomi also gives the user the ability to control time. Amaterasu burns through the toad mouth trap. Looking at Itachi’s abilities and Jiraiya abilities at the same time, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out who will win.

    As a Pein supporter I don’t believe Naruto beat Pein fair & square, no matter how many times it is explained people will think Naruto beat Pein without the aid of the Toads (who weren’t summoned by him), without Hinata interfering and causing Naruto to go 8 tails, without Pein having to exhaust almost halve his chakra on Konoha, nope nobody wants to look or talk about that. DBZ did this too. The whole world against 1 villian, but DBZ made it look cool. In the Naruto series, there is more unfair fights than there is fair fights, if that made sense.

  177. @Rinnegan invasion

    I think you are right when you say it wasn’t a fair fight between Naruto & Pain. However you have to take into account that Nagato wasn’t even really there doing the fighting, he was only supplying his chakara.

    Having six DEAD bodies fight your battles doesn’t seem fair to me either. Think about it all the damage Naruto & the frogs done to those six doesn’t really mean anything if they’re already dead, meaning Nagato never really had anything to lose as he would just get another six bodies to do his bidding.

    So, saying how it was an unfair fight only for Nagato/Pain I can’t agree with that. Naruto could have died from that fight but Nagato couldn’t have and in fact he only died because he revived everyone that paths killed.

    The same goes for when he fought Jiraiya. One person who is living against three/six dead bodies who each have there own jutsu doesn’t seem very fair to me.

  178. @madz actually I was in China for 2 years from my school degree… its worse than the media says lol. I mean literally everything u do or try to do whether it be on internet or in public is strictly regulated and enforced. Not only is free speech pretty much considered a taboo there really is no such thing over there. So before u bash democracy and crap don’t come to me without facts. I’ve been there seen it firsthand

    .. ill take democracy any day Thanks. As for the hsanning to be honest one can’t really tell their true strengths. Out of the three oro and jiryia were pretty close and people bring up the oro vs tsunade/jiryia fight but jiryia didn’t even use sage mode and he was still slightly drugged up. When oro and jiryia died they were not exactly at full health (oro) or for thar matter wholly unprepared (jiryia) I mean people say he should have been ready for the others but honestly hindsight always is 20/20. Who would guess after killing three bodies with the rinnengan That there would be three others?! I mean I know hthey say stay guarded but how guarded can u be when the rinnengan is supposed to be rare and u see three bodies with it. But I Will say itachi is definitely stronger than any of the sannin an the fact that oro gave up trying to get itachi would imply he knew he couldn’t handle him

  179. “Having six DEAD bodies fight your battles”
    Well having summons fight for you, puppets etc, that doesnt seem fair…BUT IT IS. Its YOUR jutsu. It’s YOUR chakra being used. The six bodies were just Pain’s fighting style, and Nagato on his own had the powers of ALL SIX Pains, + the seventh power. Nagato is overpowered to the extreme (which is why he had to die). Lets not forget that Nagato is the one controlling them like puppets, they’re using Nagato’s jutsus and Nagato’s chakra.

    “jman would have won in the end”
    Of course J-man would have pwned Pain in the end lol. They were in Pain’s own Village, among his own people so of course J-man would have won. Its not like Pain would have used Chibaku Tensei on him or his Super Shinra Tensei, or Demon Realm’s Laser Cannon and his myriad of missiles lol. So yes, in Amegakure Jiraiya would have won.

    “The whole world against 1 villian, but DBZ made it look cool”
    Lol, in retrospect, that IS true. Its always all the Z-fighters versus 1 villain lol. But the difference here is that the 1 villain actually CAN pwn most of the Z-fighters without any effort whatsoever, while in Naruto whenever they gang up on someone they’re all pretty effective. That’s why no one says the Z-fighters ganged up on Nappa (becuz they all died in the end lol), but why everyone says they ganged up on Vegeta (becuz they won, did a lot of damage to him, were pretty effective and none of them died). But in Naruto the bad guy always loses.

  180. As for the Sanin, Part 1 of the manga was their time to shine. Part 2’s all about the Akatsuki. Remember Akatsuki had the Sanin quivering. Tsunade couldnt beat ANY Akatsuki member if she was to fight them, Oro would get pwned by Sasori, Kisame (his stamina, brutality and Samehada would prove enough to devour this snake), Pain, Itachi and Kakuzu and Jiraiya would lose to Pain, Itachi (probably, not really sure though).

  181. soooo the nine-tails is male right and he gets stuck inside women who most likely get crazy sexed by their powerful lovers… o_O poor nintails i hope he doesn’t feel what his jinchuriki does

  182. See itachi would actually be a tough opponent for pein as a weakness of his is genjutsu and itachi just so happens to excel in that field.

  183. @Toke, no it isnt. Pain is ALSO proficient in genjutsu and was caught by a hearing genjutsu (also a Sage-level technique), NOT a visual one. Also, the only Pain that got caught was separated from the others. When all six are there its impossible to catch 1 body in a genjutsu. Itachi wouldnt win because all of his moves can be countered rather easily by Pain.

    Rinnegan > Sharingan
    Rinnegan > Mangekyou Sharingan
    Rinnegan > or = Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan

  184. @token: I guess when u r from a country that defined democracy for the world u can’t help but think its a system that works. So we this is a lose/lose situation. I loved china personally. And I will always believe that danzou would have been the right hokage for this period. And the 3rd really shouldn’t have been on a hiatus 😉 but I’m just saying all this because I’m hoping that Kishi doesn’t do something lame and not justify minato’s actions to come. Because in my right-wing mind, I can only see 3options available:
    1. Attack masked man.
    2. Accept the trade.
    3. Kill kushina
    Only option 3 doesn’t lead to the kyuubi getting released. Hopefully, the 3rd will come in and do something to throw a spanner into the works and redeem himself.

  185. @madzikage

    In the words of Jiraiya “are you off your goddamn rocker?!?” You’re not human right? Is that it?

    Even if you truly believe what you do, the WHOLE MANGA pretty much has that theme, that people come first. Since the beginnings of philosophy there have been debates about “the end justifies the means” and Kishi has clearly made his stand since the very beginning. You can spout all you want about “Danzo should have been the 3rd” but you will just end up disappointed because Kishi is making the point that this is not the way to live life and it is not the way to lead.

    If you seriously think that controlling information, manipulating your people, and oppressing viewpoints that leadership find “undesirable” is the way to live life, I will quote you this famous poem by a german priest:

    THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
    and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.

    THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
    and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

    THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
    and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.

    THEN THEY CAME for me
    and by that time no one was left to speak up.

    Sure, when you’re all “might makes right” life is peachy when you’re on top (such as Hanzo and Danzo) but as soon as Pain took over Amegakure, it sucked to be a follower of Hanzo. This does not lead to long term peace, only temporary peace.

  186. Bah not gonna Start this pein convo all over again. But if danzo was hokag he probably would have put the kyuubi inside himself or something lol. Than imagine how paranoid and crazy he would have become with the nine tails power

  187. “Pain took over Amegakure, it sucked to be a follower of Hanzo” LOL its their own fault for following that corrupt bastard 😀

    But seriously though, Madzi is right. A leader must be willing to make unfavorable decisions, if he/she cant, then they dont deserve to be a leader. Sacrifice 1 life, save thousands. Danzo was willing to sacrifice himself and his subordinates to protect Konoha… But let’s see what Minato does.

  188. It’s one thing to sacrifice yourself, or the lives of others who do so willingly, an example:

    In the military, soldiers sign up, or at least are aware if they are drafted, to sacrifice themselves for their country. The Hokage and all shinobi have agreed to put their lives on the line for the village. I agree with that sacrifice and I am honored that my dad, uncle, and great uncle served and that people still choose to serve today. This is the kind of sacrifice of 1 to save thousands that should be the ideal, although this would speak better in a country that did not have an all volunteer military (such as Italy or Israel).

    It’s a completely different thing when you start sacrificing people who did not choose. I guess you could argue that Kushina herself signed up as she became a jinchurriki, but I am speaking about Danzo’s philosophy in general.

    Also, how do you know that sacrificing Kushina will save the village? What if Minato went for the killing blow and Kushina lost it then in her death? What if her fading life force (which mind you wouldn’t have been directed at the seal, but instead would be dying away) allowed the Kyuubi to be released?

  189. @Kisu: Madzi may be right in the fact the leaders do have to make unfavorable decisions but it’s how that leader makes those decisions that defines who they are. Why sacrifice 1 life to save 1000 lives when you can sacrifice yourself (as Minato and Kushina did) to save 1001 lives?

  190. @lugia, you forget that many died in the Kyubi’s attack.

    @ripcord, once again, that was only in the Sage of Six Paths’ case. That was the very first seal ever made and containing the most powerful biju ever. Two completely different situations. Kushina’s village is very proficient in Fuijutsu and the Kyubi is not the most powerful Biju to exist. It would have died.

  191. @lugia: umm… Well people died, so what 1001 lives r u talking about?
    @ripcord: a friend of mine has a family military history dating to before the anglo-boer war, really cool stuff there. But back to the manga, kushina signed up 2 be both a jinjuuriki and a kunoichi i.e. A weapon 4 Konoha and as the guardian of that weapon, minato needs to ensure that it can’t be used on Konoha. But as I previously said, I do believe all that I’m saying. You need to contextualise the manga environment, they are warriors, constantly battling and trying to get ahead of each other in their little Cold War.
    now if u have the constant real threat of kumo invading ur village again (danzou would have retaliated with full suppresive force and not just let a kid go out and rescue the friking jinjuuriki-that must have been the 2nd at that time right? Useless), or another ninja war breaking out (the 3rd or the 2nd), or any internal threats (e.g. Orochimaru, the Uchiha) etc. In such a world or real imminent danger (and not token’s fear of going downtown ;P) then you want a leader to suppress dissidents, and protect you by ensuring your ability to go around eating ramen because internal and external threats have been suppressed. I mean seriously, Oro and Sasuke weren’t even hunted as missing nin. The 3rd deserved to die for such carelessness and hopefully tsunade will experience a similar fate for not hunting sasuke (the last uchiha-see secret weapon). I mean really, he fell into enemy hands because of sheer carelessness. He should have been assassinated by the ANBU in part 1 for Konoha’s sake when they KNEW he was going to join the same missing nin who assassinated the previous hokage.
    What kind of ridiculous leaders are those to have in a wartime/cold war environment.

  192. Personally I think this whole argument about people dying because of minato not killing kushina is unfounded till we see what happens next chapter. Although one has to wonder what madara plans on doing should minato step aside. Minato is working this whole time to keep the fox sealed.if he stops even for a second to strike her there us the chance in that second the fox is out and free. Now suppose he goes for the killing blow but madara somehow were to whisk her away with his teleportation? I’m not too sure madara has not taken into account the fact her getting killed may ruin his plans. He’s a smart Guy so I’m sure he could whisk Her out the way if he wanted to. People forget That and assume even if minato thought about it he might still be stopped.

  193. by the by, we need to always remember that only a certain percentage of a hidden village is made up of ninja, the rest are just normal japanese villagers who couldn’t tell a kunai from a shuriken. They are the ones I feel for, their leaders and military are always making dumb decisions. Perhaps that democracy thing would work, because the voice of the people is never heard in the little oligarchy of daimyo, elders, hokage, jounins. I’m sure they are sick and tired of being under constant threat because of their leaders poor decision making skills during situations they have trained to be able to prevent.

  194. People talk about Danzo making the choice of sacrifice. If memory serves me right, Danzo tried to keep Naruto on Myobokuzan where he couldn’t fight Pein. This means that Danzo is making a decision that put Konoha in danger to save one kid. So by the logic of the people supporting his style of leadership, he is the same type of “failure” they claim Minato to be. Hindisght IS always 20/20, nobody’s perfect, and it’s impossible to make a RIGHT decision when faced with one guy capable of leveling a CITY. That’s why this is manga and not real life. At the end of the day, Naruto’s hippy ideals will save the ninja world. Whether or not this works in REAL LIFE, it works HERE. That is what matters to this story. Any of these leaders people are arguing for in this manga are flawed. That’s because they’re HUMAN. They are flawed by design to set Naruto up the great savior he will prove to be.

  195. Also if I remember correctly danzo chose to not help during the pein invasion at all and stayed underground. He talks the talk but only cared about himself. Personally I wouldn’t want a selfish egotistical scared old Guy as my leader.

  196. “just let a kid go out and rescue the friking jinjuuriki-that must have been the 2nd at that time right? Useless”

    LOL That was actually the Third. He’s had the most blunders as Hokage so far. Tsunade is coming up fast though.

    “for the killing blow but madara somehow were to whisk her away with his teleportation”

    If he could have done that then why not do it from the start instead of taking a useless baby?

    “If memory serves me right, Danzo tried to keep Naruto on Myobokuzan where he couldn’t fight Pein. This means that Danzo is making a decision that put Konoha in danger to save one kid. ”

    Actually to save the lives of many. Naruto at the level he was before he left to Myobokuzan would have been easily captured by the man that killed JIRAIYA. Bringing Naruto back to the Village is a stupid decision, and it was only through sheer dumb luck that he happened to master Sage Mode in time. Danzo made the right decision. You cant bring your secret weapon into an open battlefield (especially when that weapon cant be controlled fully), otherwise the enemy could get it just like that. And if the Kyubi were to be captured, who knows what Akatsuki would have done with it (at that time)!

    “Also if I remember correctly danzo chose to not help during the pein invasion at all and stayed underground. He talks the talk but only cared about himself. Personally I wouldn’t want a selfish egotistical scared old Guy as my leader.”

    Danzo made the right decision. Pain was about to leave Konoha after he got the information he wanted. The Village was damaged, but not completely obliterated, it was Tsunade’s taunting that made Pain blow the Village up and kill a lot more people. Danzo staying underground was to show the people that they CANT depend on the current Hokage, and he was right. When he became Hokage, he could take the Village into a better direction than Tsunade could. Why save the Village if its only gonna be keep going down the same path as it was before?


    Thanks to Tsunade’s indecision, this is what happened:
    All of Sasuke’s actions are on her head. Just like all of Oro’s actions should be on the Third’s head. Kind, touchy-feely leaders should only lead in times of peace.

  197. @ Kisu, I don’t care what happens I stand by my opinion that killing Kushina would be the wrong choice be one it would weaken Konohas power making it more vulnerable and two what man could kill his wife and child and don’t say Itachi because I still don’t believe we have the whole truth about the Uchiha Massacre! And all those other examples I won’t even dignify with an answer!

  198. @ Kisu, I hate to ask you this but are you f***ing Pein because you seem to be on his D*** a lot!LOL

    I agree with you the six bodies are part of his jutsu because Hanzo took out his legs! That we agree on and I honestly think He and Itachi would have been a great match when Itachi was at one hundred percent! I don’t know who would win that one! I hope you were saying Naruto overpowered him because summonings are all part of his techniques, they are drawing off of his chakra!

    Pein can not use genjutsu, because if he did he would have done so or at least no how to escape it!

  199. @ Madzikage, I am sick of you saying Minato isn’t a good leader, first we don’t know what happened yet and second, what makes you a fucking expert at being a leader! This is so stupid, I hope you are faced with the same situation one day and lets see what you choose!

  200. We need to permanently kick Kisuzachi and Madzikage off the site because they both are damn idiot!LOL

    I hate getting this worked up but this is crazy one thinks Pein is a God and the other hates all the previous Hokages and think they are useless but has no idea what it means to be a leader!

  201. Yellow, we’re not kicking anyone off the site. If you disagree with someone either argue with them to prove your point or ignore them because you’re bored of the same arguements, (this is what I tell myself about Naruhina fans and some of the time it works) are you so scared of their oppinions that handle reading them? I agree I get bored of the constant who’s strongest? debate sometimes, but that’s when I go do something non-shannaro related.

  202. First of all, Pain has a d***? I wonder how that works considering all those mechanica-…..I think I thought too much there for a sec. Now I feel sorry for Konan 😦

    “Pein can not use genjutsu, because if he did he would have done so or at least no how to escape it!”
    That’s not what my links say Yellow 😉
    To add, Pain’s genjutsu was so strong that they had to use special equipment to get through to that ninja.

    “I hope you were saying Naruto overpowered him because summonings are all part of his techniques, they are drawing off of his chakra! ”
    Not in Naruto vs Pain. Naruto’s summons were summoned by Shima, and thus he wasted no chakra in bringing them to the battlefield, SO he cheated in that instance 😛

    “one thinks Pein is a God and the other hates all the previous Hokages and think they are useless”
    Actually, I’m both of those basically 😛

  203. @Kisu: I’ll admit, Pain is pretty cool but still, he was going up against the main character of the entire manga/anime, so I think it would be a little weird if Naruto died (not if he was resurrected in the next chapter but, I digress). I think the main thing about the genjutsu is that Pain didn’t actually use any of it in battle. And also, how do we even know it was Pain who did that? Everyone just assumed that it was Pain who placed that genjutsu on that guy’s brain but it could have been Konan or someone else just as easily. And with the summoning, you are kinda right in the sense that Naruto kinda “cheated” a little because he couldn’t spare the extra chakra. You should take solace in the fact that it took Naruto 4 sage modes, almost his full Kyuubi transformation, and then a little bit more to take down all 6 Pains and finally meet with Nagato himself.

  204. man this “who’s the most powerful” argument i sso annoying!!! BAHHHH there is so many better things to discuss like the upcoming chapters and plots! Obviously each to their own! Everyone has their favourites and is going to fight tooth and nail for them.

    However a few facts

    Currently Naruto and Sasuke both would be the most powerful shinobi with one achieving EMS and the other Sage of Six path body.

    In a very close second and until recently first would be Pain who actually had the rinnegan eyes, the ultimate dojutsu.

    With regards to the Hokages during their respective times they were the preeminent shinobis. You cant really compare future generations to previous ones as generations progress and surpass previous ones. Prodigies and geniuses occur in every generation.

    However there is one argument i read previously which was really stupid and that is that kakuzu and kisame were stronger than jiraiya. You have to be joking!!! Jiraiya nearly took out Pain if not for knowing about the secret of the six paths. Therefore he would have easily taken out all the Akatsuki excluding perhaps itachi and madara.

    Well hope we can move past it and talk about theories for the upcoming episodE!!!!!

  205. Ok can’t believe ppl are still bringing up pein yes he super strong an his objective wasn’t to kill naruto just capture an what’s with everyone bashing minato saying he was a bad hokage if that’s the case why does everyone in the village respect him even iruka who lost both his parents

  206. “why does everyone in the village respect him”: Because there’s no free speach and the few ninja who actually know what happened with the 9-tails are dead or forbiden to speak about it. In the first chapter it says “the nine-tails just appeared” which is what most beleive happened. I’m not saying I do, or that Minato did anything wrong yet, but the villagers are largely unaware of his actions, so they can’t really judge him either.

    Greenpeas: What DO you think will happen next? If I had one guess it would be Kisame attacks, switch to Akatsuki vs. Alliance (if you think axis of evil vs. Allied forces it really goes to a WW2 reference well), then Naruto defeats Kisame. All in roughly 5 chapters.

  207. I don’t really mean it it’s just the eat of the moment I guess, I apologize to you both! Thanks Mart for talking me off the ledge, because you right it get tiresome talking about the same thing over and over! I can handle their opinions just fine it’s just it gets annoying when you are trying to make the same point over and over.
    @ Kisu, well, you manage to prove me wrong on that line but he never really used genjutsu in battle to defend himself the way Sasuke and Itchi used it. And maybe the summoning didn’t use his chakra but Naruto defeat all six Peins with his own chakra, the toads only fought Peins summonings! You know what Peins cool and all but face it Naruto killed him, HE’S DEAD! MInato is also dead and the one thing we can agree on is the fact they both died splendid Ninja even though the way MInato went out was way cooler!LOL

  208. I actually don’t think Naruto’s training is over yet, after this I think he will learn to co-exist with the Kyuubi and then learn some super strong techniques. He will also have to learn how to fight in 9-tails form!

    I hope they also boost Kakashis chakra and make him stronger and the new leader Leader of Root! I also think the after Naruto and Bee kick Kisames ass the Alliance will attack Madaras Base that Kabuto led them too.

  209. I just noticed we have over 300 comments this chapter! Way to go Narutards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  210. “Currently Naruto and Sasuke both would be the most powerful shinobi with one achieving EMS and the other Sage of Six path body.

    In a very close second and until recently first would be Pain who actually had the rinnegan eyes, the ultimate dojutsu. ”

    first of all, we don’t know how strong the EMS is, we never saw Pain go all out, EVER, we really dont know anything. So as to stay away from a sour topic, how about no one mentions Pain in anything battle-related. Ideologies is fun discuss however.

    @Mart, y would Kisame choose NOW to attack? Wouldnt the best time to attack be ya know, when Bee and Naruto were distracted with the KYubi stuff? As a matter of fact, Kisame could have captured Bee from the whole giant Water dome fight.

    I’ve noticed something, everyone underestimates Kisame. I say he could beat Jiraiya. Think about it, a lot of ninjas think they couldnt beat Hashirama, but we know he isnt that strong, its a case where the legend exceeds the truth, which is why I think he said he couldnt beat Jiraiya. The only moves Jiraiya could use against Kisame are sealing techniques. Main point, dont underestimate Jaws Jr.

  211. “but face it Naruto killed him” so many things are wrong with that statement, but meh. I digress.

    “I apologize to you both! ” No harm done 🙂

    Anyway, Genjutsu isnt Pain’s style so that’s why he didnt use it in battle, same with elemental jutsus (we KNOW God Realm can use other jutsus besides gravity-based Rinnegan abilities).

  212. Er, we have over 200, not 300 🙂

    I really wish I had been apart of this chapter discussion, but alas, I am lazy -_-

  213. @ naruruler13, i was also counting the comments from the previous post!

  214. Okay, can someone clear this up for me….
    how old is naruto?!?!
    suposedly hes 16 but if he is then does that mean ssuke and sakura are 14?
    didnt it say naruto failed the graduation exam 2 or 3 times? so wouldnt that mean hes older thatn everyone else considering they passed on their first try?
    but in this chapter is shows sasuke already born before naruto, making him older….
    did naruto enter academy earlier than everyone else or what?!?!
    maybe im missing something….someone explain this?

  215. @Kisu
    I think your of you rocker. 😉
    By Kisame’s own admission Jiraiya is on a whole other level, why would he lie? That places Jiraiya at least within Pain/Nagato’s level, if not higher, remember Kisame’s chakra adsorbing abilities are not in the same league as Pain so he is not necessarily immune to jutsu, plus Ninja Art: Toad Mouth Trap is a jutsu, which as we saw in the first part of the series, Kisame couldn’t do much against. Face it Jiraiya is way beyond most Akatsuki members. 8)

  216. I don’t think kismet could have beaten jiraiya just because if jiriaya was in sage mode an kismet tried to drain his chackra he’d turn into a stone frog

  217. people really need to let logic prevail over emotion. Kisu and I clearly use logic. I mean had Pein v jiraiya used the techniques we saw in Pein v Naruto, he would have been dead. Had Naruto not had support from shima, hinata and Pein himself not wanting to kill him, he would be dead.
    The 3rd comes up at the most incompetent hokage: letting minato rescue their secret weapon, Oro’s experiments and defection- I mean Oro created a whole village and the 3rd couldn’t kill him even with his battle hardened minato and a number of other incompetencies.
    Next comes tsunade and you can explain that for urselves. Then I would say hashirama for starting this whole mess. I would have just created 9 jinjuuriki and killed them hence sorting out this whole mess. Plus he’s guilty of creating the ideology behind a fool like Hiruzen.
    Minato comes next, but I’m really rooting for him guys, I want a twist bcoz logic is making him responsible for the kyuubi attack. (@Kisu: good note that noone in the village knew what happened on Oct. 16-probably Hiruzen’s way of not coming out like a fool).
    Tobirama is the best hokage for the simple point that AS YET his tenure has had no ramifications, so perhaps he actually knew what he was doing. All the other leaders pretty much got the village attacked, and in 1st, 3rd & 4th’s case, by products of konoha: madara, Oro and the kyuubi respectively. Useless!

    I’m calling for democratic elections in Konoha, this oligarchy where only the jounin, elders, previous hokage and daimyo choose the leader when the vast majority of the village are not ninja is ridiculous and brought about that senju-will of fire nonsense. That has caused Konoha to be attacked 4times. 4 friking times!

    And whoever said Naruto and Sasuke are the strongest, probably but not definitely. Noone knows what EMS does, and with Naruto all he has received is a boost in chakra which doesn’t directly result in a host of new techniques. But I guess people like Naruto’s ‘whack em over the head with a blunt object fighting method’ of ‘Hmm… One rasengan doesn’t work, let me make it bigger and multiply that by 1000… That should work’ battle plan

  218. At sasuke the beast either naruto failed the exams earlier or it’s just a plot whole @ mart yeah I wasn’t thinking about the villagers not knowing the truth behind the fox but as much as we know about minato he still hasn’t did anythingwrong

  219. @Sasukethebeast
    Sasuke is probably a couple of weeks older, but I think its like todays Elementary school system, they can’t really hold any student back a grade without parental consent, but they can stop them from graduating from that school, I think you are allowed to take the test multiple times within the year they were together and Sasuke had already guaranteed his graduation, but Naruto hadn’t until he learned the Shadow Clone Jutsu which impressed Iruka to allow Naruto to graduate. Sasuke might be the one that started late and therefore graduated late I think Sasuke started when he was 8 while Naruto started at an earlier time allowing him to fail and still be in Sasuke’s class.

  220. @madizkage speaking democrats you make it seem like republicans think odiotic solutions when Obama okayd it for the oil ppl to stick mud in the oil pipes to stop theoil leak lol

  221. @Madzikage
    Well, everyone uses logic in their argument or at least some half assed rhetoric to explain themselves. Why would anyone validate your logic or mine when they or we are clearly biased in one way or another character wise and in ideology. Its like you are a Republican hardliner and I’m a Democrat pacifist, opposites if you will, same as Nagato was a hardliner, through his approach by any means necessary and Jiraiya a pacifist through mutual understanding, wouldn’t you agree? What make you think Jiraiya would not have been able to counter Pain’s techniques or at least used countermeasures? Their is no proof. The Hokages did their job, as long as the Leaf exists that shows they did their job, blunder or not. Everyone makes mistakes even Pain did, he realized his mistake and repented, did he not? The point is they, all the Hokages, did their job, guaranteeing the existence of the Leaf for as long as they have.

  222. I agree with U john. Jman is no push over. by no means necesary. Ilike your argument it make plenty of sence.

  223. @John: good point, however not everyone uses logic.
    @ minatofan: huh? I wish I could even begin to understand what you are on about. See john’s statement, I’m a hardliner ‘by any means necessary’ nagato/danzou kinda guy.
    And for those who question whether I know what it means to lead, I will just say this, without getting into much detail, I know what it means to lead and make decisions for people that fundamentally alters the course of their lives… Just don’t have a rasengan that’s all. Lol

  224. @madzikage

    If you think killing the tailed beasts was possible, then wouldn’t the SAGE SIX PATHS have done it! He seems to be the best one to do so.

    I don’t care if you think you know how to lead, or even if you do, clearly your viewpoint is different than the author of this manga, you don’t understand Kishi at all. The general theme is that people shouldn’t give up, even if they face difficult situations and he has specifically shown that for certain characters.

    You assume that because he hasn’t shown it for other characters it didn’t exist, however he actually showed that Danzo was unable to sacrifice himself, therefore Toribama decided he was unfit to be Hokage. Danzo’s philosophy was so dark that most of us actually feared he was working against the village and quite frankly he could have easily been on the other side of that line if his last chapter or 2 had been written differently.

    There is a little bit of a nuance here that was created by those chapters actually, it made me realize this: that even if Danzo had been Hokage, he wouldn’t have been any better than Hiruzen, he was faced with doubts in his life too. He made selfish choices, and actually we should have hated him, but then in the end, after seeing his story of his early life with Toribama and the way he died for his village, I came to hope that he found peace in his death because he obviously didn’t have it in life.

    Also Madzikage, it is obvious that the political divide between you and me and others on this site is too large to change anyone’s minds… and mixing it with the manga discussion is not going to be enjoyable. Don’t go all “I’m gonna pull rank” because on this site we are equals. The only difference is how good are you at pulling information from the manga pages Kishi has written and making an argument from those.

    If you can’t do that, on this site I could care less how good a leader you are behind that keyboard.

  225. @Sasuke the beast: Currently, Naruto SHOULD be 17, because when he got back he was 15 and a half, so he should be at LEAST a year and a half older now. Because, the three month limit of time they had in the first four arcs was overrun because Sasuke killed Orochimaru before Naruto and Sakura had to. So, it all falls into place with about another year a half

  226. @Madzikage: He may have been incompitent, but the third hokage was deemed the most powerful of the four hokages at that moment, even more so than the one who some believe to be the most powerful, Hashi dude. But, The Third was in fact one of most powerful, but he couldn’t bring himself to kill his student.

  227. “@Kisu
    I think your of you rocker.”
    If you’re just figuring that out then YOU are off your rocker 😉

    “If you think killing the tailed beasts was possible, then wouldn’t the SAGE SIX PATHS have done it! He seems to be the best one to do so.”
    He couldnt. He was on his death bed when he split the Jubi, sent a Chibaku Tensei into space, created the moon and seal the darned thing’s body. What? You expected him to kill the things too? He did more than his fair share if you ask me.

    I don’t care what anyone says. The measure of a good leader is how well he can protect those who follow him, while accomplishing what he set out to do. By that measure, ALL the Hokages are failures (except maybe Tobirama). Hashirama didnt get peace and Konoha was attacked twice in his lifetime plus he gave away the Shukaku, the same beast that Suna and Oto wanted to release in the leaf. Tobirama did a fairly good job in dealing with the Uchihas, his only blunder is picking Hiruzen. Hiruzen…..oh Hiruzen. Minato (will most likely) let Kushina/Kyubi live to attack all those people he swore to protect and failed to find peace as well. Tsunade let Sasuke live and caused Konoha’s destruction by angering god.

  228. @kisuzachi

    That’s my point, if the Sage Six Paths couldn’t kill the bijuu, who can?

  229. Also, who said getting peace would be easy. Honestly, if the Shodai or Sandaime had accomplished peace, this would be a pretty boring manga. It is interesting BECAUSE of the struggle. You don’t have all the answers to your life, neither did the characters of Naruto, and we see that with the strengths Kishimoto gave the characters, they did the best they could.

    Eventually, someone will succeed (Naruto most likely) and then the manga will end.

  230. “That’s my point, if the Sage Six Paths couldn’t kill the bijuu, who can?”
    Oh he could. But he was already weak from all he did. Even though he’s a god, he still has a human’s body. His sons should have gone around the world killing the Biju and preventing the nightmare their father defeated from ever returning. But to your question, anyone who faces a Jinchuriki can kill a Biju. And we’ve seen that Deidara and Tobi completely knocked the Sanbi unconscious and dragged it back to the base with no injuries on either of them.

  231. @Kisu: I think you have to give the Hokages at least some credit, I mean Hashirama, even though he didn’t achieve peace, I think he was still a good Hokage because first of all, he was the FIRST so I mean he didn’t have people before him to show him how to lead an entire village. Sure he was the leader of the Senju clan, but he had never been the leader of an entire village made up of multiple clans and many citizens before, so he had to make mistakes in order to learn. Sure he couldn’t bring peace, but at least he brought unity! Before, there were just these small little clans that were always fighting and never united. At least he united them! And really, I mean to expect peace to come about that easily is expecting a bit much. You can’t just suddenly have unity and then expect there to be instant peace. I mean Hashirama can’t just wave a magic wand like a fairy godmother and just make all the generations of war, hatred, revenge, rivalries and bloodshed just magically poof away! That’s just kinda impossible. I can’t really say anything about Hiruzen…

    @Mad: I don’t think Minato would actually kill Kushina! I mean first of all if he did, Madara would kill Naruto in an instant and even if Minato did kill Kushina, one of two things would happen: 1.) The Kyuubi would die. or 2.) The Kyuubi would escape. I think Either way its a lose-lose situation because if the Kyuubi dies (which we no he didn’t) then Naruto dies as well (Kushina being dead because he killed her). If the Kyuubi escapes, Madara would probably kill Naruto thinking that it was dead and then the Kyuubi would be loose, and both Kushina and Naruto would be dead. I don’t really think Minato would be so stupid as to kill her. I think that idea is just preposterous!!

  232. @ripcord: u r really warming up to me I must say, even tho u don’t sing my tune! =D
    But I feel what you are saying, but there are a lot of personal attack s on shannaro, but its a global community, so its not personal. this thread really made me appreciate why I started participating in it… Good work guys!

  233. @lugia, yeah I KNOW universal peace WILL NEVER be achieved (unless all of human kind is wiped out and we’re replaced by robots), but that was the teaching Hashirama passed down. He set an impossible goal, tries to reach it and ends up screwing Konoha over and over again (via those who rule after him). What Konoha needs is a Hokage that isnt connected to any of the previous ones, at least that way you wont have radicals like the Uchiha thinking that the Senju try to hold on to power.

    Hashiram—>Tobirama (Hashirama’s little brother)—>Hiruzen (Tobirama and Hashirama’s student)—>Minato (the student of Hiruzen’s student)—>Tsunade (the 1st’s granddaughter)

    Now doesnt that seem fishy? The next Hokage should be Iruka or Ebisu (just kidding, but it needs to be someone that’s strong, but with no special background like these two have). That way, people will know you dont have to be related to the 1st or have some special power to leader. This is why I was never for the idea of Naruto becoming Hokage.

  234. @Kisu: Well you’re right there, I think someone new and not related to any of the previous hokage should be Hokage (though, I do think that Naruto would make a pretty good Hokage) And then, when Tsunade was in a coma, if Danzo didn’t use Shisui’s eyes to control everyone in the room, they would have selected Kakashi (Minato’s Student) so its just a cycle I guess. But I think Naruto’s ideals are a little different from his predecessors. I can’t really think of anyone who is from Konoha, Very powerful, not related to any of the previous Hokage, and is not shady (because someone could have said Danzo, but he is basically a criminal, shady, freaky, and manipulative and I don’t really like him that much.

  235. @ Kisu, Now we are blaming Hashirama, I’m not saying he was perfect but come on the guy was essential to ending the war and created an entire village and made it one of the top villages in the world! He also was able to capture all nine tailed beast and bought peace to ninja world! It may not have been perfect peace but he prevented wars and created a system where they could co-exist even a little! Maybe he was selfish when it came to choosing his successors but come on as the Hokage he was the best!

    If anyone made bad decisions was the Second Hokage, the was he alienated the Uchiha, the only decent decision that we know of that he made was choosing Hiruzen as the Third hokage, at least he did’t work against the Uchiha!

  236. @Yellow, that was a smart move by Tobirama. The Uchiha leader had try to attack Konoha with a Biju, anyone with even half a brain would watch them, and that’s what he did. He even gave them a position where they’d be recognized as heroes. Picking Hiruzen WAS his only falter, but I doubt he could have guessed Hiruzen would turn out to be the absolute worst Hokage.

    Also, Hashirama is to blame becuz he could have made all nine Biju walk off a 15000 ft Cliff and killed them.

  237. @Kisu
    Yes peace is almost impossible, especially universal peace, but imagine if no one tried, then it would be absolute anarchy and chaos in the Narutoverse, complete clan on clan battle like it was before the village system, nonstop war. “All it takes for evil to succeed is for a few good men to do nothing. Here’s to a few good men. Cheers.” 😉 Also take into account the fact that the Hokages can only control what’s inside their village, they are not responsible for the actions of other villages, those action that might cause war mind you, so the Hokages are not really at fault, at least not in their entirety.

  238. i hate digging the past and saying what a person did was right or wrong, or blame them for what is currently happening, whether it’s real life or a story.

    kisu, dude, just stop it, we get all your points, lol. whatever happened to the underwear i suggested? did u get any?

    and WHAT the heck is up with chapter 501? why are the guys at manga stream so late in their releases??? i can’t do my work properly before i read the next chapter 😦

    sorry manga stream guys, i know u’re doing it for free and i have no right bitch at ya. but hey!! i can’t wait any longer!!! 😦 😦

  239. “kisu, dude, just stop it,”
    I say unpopular stuff just to generate discussions. If everyone agrees on something that’s no fun now is it? lol

  240. i guess?

  241. I for one enjoy a good heated debate. It’s when people start taking it too seriously that it becomes annoying. It’s a discussion about a manga chapter. It really doesn’t need to get personal. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ve found this debate, as heavy as it’s been, quite entertaining.

  242. @everyone-

    ok this is completly unrelated, but the new ichigo chapter was p badass, ichigo is completly fuked lol.

    no signs of the new Naruto chapter yet.

  243. @Smartass, It seems like Naruto is always the last one updated lately.

  244. @corvis-

    Nothing but truth there.

    OH AND LOOK, mangastream apparently ran OUT OF LOAD DATA right when the new naruto chapter was ready to come out….wat a fucking suprise lol

  245. @ smartass…

    u beat me to it, i was going to comment on the new bleach chapter too, lol…

    yea, ichigo’s up for a real ass fucking, lol. but it’s going to end up him winning …. duh…

    @other comment from smartass…
    yea, server administrators are psychic. they know how to fuck u up in the , lol, at a VERY convenient time.

  246. @lilmoe-

    Yea i know he’s going to win, its shonen, of course lol. but im goin to enjoy seein how badass the getsuga-hollow fusion is.

    yea very convenient indeed, makes me wanna go roll their house and say “hows this for convenient assholes!” lol, but they do it for free, so i cant say nothin

  247. 501 is out everybody!!!!

  248. Naruto’s here. Bleach was boring towards the end. One Piece was good as usual ^^


    Dont feel like making an “It’s Out” post though

  249. HAHAHA! Madzi and I were right all along! In your faces!

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