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Naruto Chapter 497 – Mom’s Here to Scare Off the Big Bad Fox

naruto-retro1Post Author: Bob

Well holy crap, after the lacklustre reading of the last couple of chapters, Kishi really pulled an ace from his sleeve this week. Not only did he answer my prayers for a one-on-one physical brawl fest between Naruto and Kyuubi, but he also dropped a bombshell at the end by making Naruto’s mother, Kushina Uzumaki, appear. Kishi also kicked up the art a notch this chapter; just check out the detail on the spread on page 3/4. Finally we have a chapter I can really dig into and talk about. And that goes for all you Shannarolites, too! No more wimpy comments like those of the last few weeks, I want to see some real discussions this time so go all out!


Personally, Kushina’s appearance completely caught me off guard. I was thinking she would have a role influencing Naruto down the road, but certainly not this directly. But her appearance also made me think about just how crowded it must be inside Naruto‘s psyche, inner self, or whatever you want to call it: there’s the giant evil fox, Evil Naruto, a fragment of Minato’s spirit, whatever essence Itachi left in him from their last encounter, that toad who holds the key to Kyuubi’s seal, and now his mother’s spirit. I was always interested in learning more about what happened to Kushina, next to the mystery behind Madara, I think she has me most interested. I initially thought I’d be one of the few fans who would be really excited to see her appear, but judging from the comments in the preliminary chapter post, she’s pretty popular with a lot people. It’s strange though if you think about it… she’s only made one appearance prior to this chapter so far and her past has only been hinted at through Jiraiya and Tsuande’s conversations — yet those tidbits were enough to really kindle our imagination about her character. So far we don’t know much about Kushina at all: she’s originally from the now-defunct Whirlpool country and Jiraiya mentioned that she had fiery red hair and a tomboyish personality that Naruto takes after. Other than those small details, we don’t know anything about her abilities, why she left her country, or how or whether or not she died (her spiritual appearance in Naruto’s mind seems to suggest that she has passed away already) — and this makes the cliffhanger at the end especially bad this week!

I’m really glad Kishi decided to go with a literal battle in this chapter for Naruto and Kyuubi’s showdown. We know this is all in Naruto’s mind, so really it could have been some surreal trip or a mental tug-of-war with no fighting at all. But just think how exciting that would be? I think Kishi must have realized that too and also knew that the fans want a full out brawl between our protagonist and his inner demon, and he promptly delivered that in spades. Those 13-14 pages of continuous action were a breath of fresh air after the lull of the last few chapters. I think we were pampered with non-stop action during the Sasuke-a-thon, and now we’re bitching when Kishi resorts to more humor and plot-focused storytelling. But hey, I think it’s about time Naruto was given another decent battle that we can really sink our teeth into. Even though most of the jutsus used in this battle from both sides were only recycled or slightly altered versions of existing techniques, I can’t really complain since the action flowed smoothly and had a lot of climaxes as it swung back and forth between Naruto and Kyuubi. The part I loved most was when Naruto landed his Rasen Shuriken into Kyuubi as he was down and then Kyuubi getting up looking like a pissed off, half shaven dog, lol.

It’s too bad Kyuubi’s evil overwhelmed Naruto so easily even after Naruto supposedly cleansed himself of (or at least came to terms with) his dark side. But we all know that Kyuubi has always been a total beast in more than one sense of that word. He is malice and hatred incarnate and he can take advantage of even the smallest remnant of darkness left in Naruto’s heart. It’s a little cliché for the answer to defeating Kyuubi’s hatred be motherly love, but I honestly can’t think of a better person to help Naruto out of this situation other than his mother, Kushina. Now, I definitely don’t think Kushina’s appearance is just a manifestation of Naruto’s inner mind (or maybe even an illusion by Kyuubi); much like Minato’s appearance during Naruto’s battle versus Pein, Kushina’s appearance was planted ahead of time and must have been triggered by this very situation Naruto is in. If this is true, then it means both Kushina and Minato consented and likely worked togther to seal the Kyuubi inside Naruto. They knew the consequences and the risks to their son and so each left a part of themselves inside Naruto to assist him during the worst of it.

Next week will almost certainly be a dialogue-heavy chapter, nonetheless I’m real excited about it since Kushina might finally spill the beans about her story. Okay, thanks for reading everybody, see you next week!

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229 Responses

  1. great chapter, loved the gargantua rasengan.

    I was totally caught off guard by her appearance. I have always been interested in her story, more so than any other character in the series. I was just so focused on the current events that I completely forgot about her.

    I also think that some of the theories about (especially the one about her being the previous host) a little too far fetched.
    I don’t want to waste my time coming up with theories, I’d rather watch and see how it unfolds, that way i’m more satisfied.

  2. Wow seems to be the most overused word in the english vocabulary, but wow… Kishi completely did a 180 with this chapter and it made up for his previous twenty or so lackluster, Sasuke filled, waste of my time chapters… I hope the encounter between mother and son is more divulging than what the father and son version was. This chapter sort of tugs at the mamma’s boy in all of us…

  3. now this was a chapter. Who knows perhaps this is all itachi (now that would be a twist)! I will wait for people to get into a discussion before commenting further. But I must say I’m impressed by Naruto’s battle speed

  4. hole crap that was the most unexpected ending…
    this is the exact reason why i feel in love with this story…
    its finally back. but if you guys saw how naruto made his rasenshurkin explode instead of expend like in the pain fight… so it seems like he can control either explode or expend. but naruto made the fox look like a pussy cat… he actually did a couple of number on the fox, not only did he whip the floor with pain but now he is owning the fox,
    but it seems that the fox’s greatest weapon is his hatred..
    well exciting chapter in about 100 chapters this made my day..

    this chapter had every thing that a naruto fan looks for

  5. Tho the Fox is powerful and has an array of powerful attacks, it makes sense that it most powerful weapon be mental… it belies da nature of a fox who in nature are not the most fearsome creatures… They are reknowned for their cunning and resolve, and the Nine tails relied on that… I like the Fox when he and Naruto become the perfect pair the Fox’s cunning and Naruto’s physical strength ( i mean he dis slam it on its head by its tail) will make Naruto unbeatable… Well in Kishi case unbeatable for now… Im sure Sasuke’s due for an absurd upgrade…

  6. “Now, I definitely don’t think Kushina’s appearance is just a manifestation of Naruto’s inner mind (or maybe even an illusion by Kyuubi); much like Minato’s appearance during Naruto’s battle versus Pein, Kushina’s appearance was planted ahead of time and must have been triggered by this very situation Naruto is in. If this is true, than it means both Kushina and Minato consented and likely worked togther to seal the Kyuubi inside Naruto. They knew the consequences and the risks to their son and so each left a part of themselves inside Naruto to assist him during the worst of it (Bob,2010).”
    That is a really good theory, I think.

  7. This the Chapter I’ve been looking for!

    I don’t know if Naruto was in Sage Mode when he threw the Fox down by it’s tail, but none the less That Spiral Rasengan was sweet aswell as the Gargantua Rasengan. So much imagination is running in my brain for the next upcoming chapters, Like will we learn about the Uzumaki’s from the Land of Whirlpool, do they even exist anymore? What will his mother teach him other than “Believe in yourself”, or “I believe in you My son”. I mean that’s cool too, but I want this to Last long, not quick and fast like when Naruto encountered his Father.

    His father is supposed to be on the next Shippuden movie. I hope Naruto second element is Water. This chapter was Sweet!!!

  8. nine tailed fox is the first character that naruto has faced that actually survived from a rasenshuriken. kyubi is beast!!

  9. I’m loving the kushina was the previous host theory. And I think it has merit. 1. Consider the high level seal that contained the kyuubi in Naruto, it is unreasonable to think that minato just invented it on the spot. He probably invented it over time with his wife to suppress the kyuubi in her.
    2. It explains how the kyuubi knows a lot about Naruto’s parents.
    3. It could have taken over when she was in a weakened and vulnerable state i.e. After the birth and killed her in the process. Then minato having designed a family specific seal for the kyuubi realised that Naruto was the best host for the kyuubi.
    4. It would explain how she even ended up in the hidden leaf, she destroyed her own village and minato was there to help suppress the her probably when he was a jounin and fell in love and therefore started to design the ultimate seal.
    5. How does madara fit into it all? He either a. Doesn’t; as he said or b. Too over a released kyuubi in an opportunistic manner.

  10. Wow Bob, makes sense that Kushina was there in the planning, since she appears at a critical junction here. Also, interesting that she appears at this point and Minato at the earlier point. This means 2 things:

    1) The two of them expected Naruto to make it this far (as Kushina has not appeared to him before), and even anticipated Naruto to fail to contain the 9-tails along the way (otherwise Minato wouldn’t have appeared for his son).

    2) Kushina was a pretty capable ninja. I guess Minato could have sealed some of her in Naruto, but it would seem to me that it was her doing so she had some decent ability.

    Minato and Kushina didn’t appear together, perhaps they would have prefered it this way, but they were forced to plan ahead and separate their “gifts.”

    About the fight, Naruto seemed to enter Sage Mode almost instantly. I mean, it could have been the opening given by Killerbee, but if so, I think he was able to do it fast enough that his clones could create an opening for him to enter Sage Mode. It took Jiraiya a considerable amount of time while fighting. The difference here though could be that this is in Naruto’s mind… so did he really use Sage Mode?

    I also liked how Kishi showed in this chapter the physical manifestation of Naruto losing the battle, and how it resembled Naruto’s previous transformations when he lost control.

  11. Also, I think the “Kushina was the 9-tails jinchurriki” is total crap here’s why:

    1) Naruto was a newborn during the Kyuubi attack, granted he might not have just been born, but the years since the Kyuubi attack and Naruto’s age match, I would guess (from the only picture of Naruto’s sealing we’ve seen) that he was a newborn since he still appears wet.

    2) Kushina couldn’t have sealed herself into Naruto as a part of the Kyuubi sealing because she’d already be dead from the extraction of the bijuu.

  12. Great chapter, I’m looking forward to hearing a bit more about Kushina myself and her background. The picture of the Kyuubi sitting up after getting hit with the Rasenshuriken was awesome. I just kept thinking that look meant something like “D’fuck did that come from!?” Very funny I htought haha.

  13. All imma say its about time his mom came into the picture, i feel things are gonna get really emotional the next couple chapters haha

  14. all i have to say is

    “KUSHINA UZUMAKI!!!!” WOOOT WOOOOT!!!

    about time we here what happened with her!

    luv bob’s theory about both minato and her knowing before hand. Definatley sets up some hectic possiblities in future episodes. Naruto really needs to learn some new techniques and maybe this could be a segway into that!

  15. @madzikage

    GREAT Observation! That does makes sense

  16. @ripcord

    Could it be possible that Madara fought Kushina? That could have happened, but then again Minato would of brought it up when he and Naruto reunited, but then again Minato and Naruto’s bonding was really short

    What if Kushina transformed into the 9 tails when she fought Madara, and Madara Manipulated her into fighting Minato. Now that makes sense.

  17. This was a great chapter
    but maybe he could throw the nine tails away because it was in his mind
    in ur mind u can do anyting I think haha

  18. @Byakugan invasion

    But how in the world would she seal her consciousness into Naruto? It just wouldn’t be possible. If she had turned into the 9-tails during that fight, she would have no control over anything.

  19. ah crap…too many open tabs on this browser and I’ve had a couple beers. posted my comment on the wrong discussion! sorry! >_<

    going to just paste it here. apologies.

  20. well Madara was in possession of the Kyuubi in the final battle vs Hashirama, and we don’t see it again when it’s used by “Madara” against Konoha and Minato. Therefore I would assume he was still in possession of it. Here’s my logic:

    1. Hashirama becomes Hokage and creates the leaf village, which then leads other clans to settle down into the other 4 villages.
    2. to assure “peace”, Hasirama distributes the Bijuu to the other nations.
    3. theoretically, Konoha would have kept a bijuu as well and why wouldnt Hashirama keep an eye on the most powerful – Kyuubi.
    4. the only person we know who was able to literally control the kyuubi (and not just suppress it) was obviously Madara. I’ll say it now: If the Kyuubi ever actually had a host before…it was probably Madara. It would have overwhelmed anyone else.

    the problem with madara being a host though is the epic spread we got of his fight at the battle of the end, where the kyuubi is fighting separately from him (and not a part of him where all other jinchuuriki are). therefore, maybe it’s possible he was able to use his “hatred” to summon the Kyuubi? similar to Sasuke summoning Manda and controlling him with the same eyes. we don’t really have enough details to say yet.

    regardless, there’s no record of the kyuubi being in possession the leaf between the 2 events Madara and “Madara” were involved in, so that’s why I say it was in his possession in some way before then. It doesn’t really fit that Kushina was involved. but there is something else interesting about her. no one knew she was pregnant or even had a child, because no one besides those close to Minato knew Naruto was their child. Maybe that’s a plot hole, but I’m really quite curious about her involvement with the leaf and how she died. i’d definitely wager a death by Kyuubi’s hand or a self-sacrifice for Naruto’s sake, which may explain her appearance now.

    and yes, died. the fact that she’s in Naruto’s psyche shows she’s either a soul reaching out to her son, or she put a fragment of her spirit into naruto alongside Minato when they sealed him. she can’t still be alive inside him literally, so that argument is silly.

  21. @ripcord @Byakugan invasion

    If she was the host and transformed into the Kyuubi (or more importantly, lost control), then her essence and possibly body would still be part of the Kyuubi, no? If Naruto released all of the Kyuubi’s chakra it’s possible Kushina’s spirit was trapped inside the seal as well with it, which is why she’s appearing now to help him out or give him hope/advice.

    it’s also possible she was a part of the sealing process alongside Minato.

  22. One thing came out of this chapter for me. IF NAruto can do that to the “ALMIGHTY KYUBI”, imagine what Pain could have done. He’s still the Naruverse’s god 😀

  23. i wonder if next chapter we will see the origin of the 9 tails. perhaps as the kyubi kills it takes a piece of a person’s soul and preys on it, turning it into pure hatred, and that pure hatred gives the kyubi its power.

    i wonder if this is how kushina came to apear before naruto. if her pureness was able to resist the kyubi’s hate after being killed. and now naruto has encountered her essence locked inside the kyubi’s chakra.

    or maybe similar in nature to the connection of love shown in the harry potter movies she sacrificed herself to save him, at birth and imprinted part of herself in naruto similar to the way the 4th did (unlikely.)

    either way i dont want to see kishi diminish this plot twist with a lame reason as to how it came to be. and no one better mention itachi’s gift cause that doesnt tie into the plot line here even in the slightest.

    i must say it would be awesome to see a kushina gaiden. i think she is one of the most liked characters despite having about a 5 minute role in the manga up untill now. it would be a great way to get the back story on naruto’s mother, how she came to be in konoha, and her origins as a ninja.

    also, is it just me or was naruto’s answer to the fox “do you really think you can beat me” – “i wouldnt have removed the seal if i didnt” slightly remaniscent of the 4th when naruto encountered him in his psyche during the pain fight? “saying your going to rip me to shreds isnt going to make me come closer”

  24. @uchiha_gaiden: madara could be a host, we have seen Killerbee ride atop the hachibi, so its probably possible.
    I still think that kushina was the host, I am not too assured by the belief that a. hashirama didn’t keep a bijuu for his village and b. That the kyuubi was a hostless bijuu considering just how destructive it is.
    I am hoping that kushina impart more than a simple msg on Naruto, we need proof and understanding as to why she’s more like him.
    By the way, Naruto having the Uzumaki name means that most people probably knew he was related to kushina.

  25. @madzikage

    your assuming many people in the village knew of her or her relationship to the 4th. to be honest there is only 2 people, maybe 3 who have ever acknowledged her (too my memory) jiraya and tsunade. kakashi may have mentioned or hinted at her once as well, but it doesnt seem like a lot of people knew.

    it was stated that the kyubi matter was regarded as top secret because naruto was the 4th’s son and the jinchuriki. so it isnt inconcievable that only a few people in the village knew about it. givin the fact she is from a different contry she may not have even arived at the village till she was 8 month’s pregnant. who knows.

  26. @kisuzachi
    Yes Pain is still the GOD of the series, I hope he got Konan pregnant somehow lol. I want the Rinnegan to live on.

    From the comments I’m reading it seems as if Kushina and Minato got into a relationship, or bumped into each other when they got older. It was never said when The Land of Whirlpools was destroyed, so I think Kushina ( The former host of the 9 tails” suggested by madzikage”) destroyed her village at a very young age, moved to or brought over to Konoha after the catastrophe. Joined the Chunin exams ( What other way would Jiraiya and Tsunade know her abilities & personality )

    Or Minato could of met her during the 3rd war, but the question is was Konoha Allies with The Land of Whirlpools? I hope we learn more

  27. One thing is for sure. Kushina’s appearance in the middle of Naruto’s battle with the kyubi expresses the urgency of the situation. She will undoubtedly help him in his quest to overcome his greatest inner demon!

    Another interesting thing is finally able to meet both of his parents. Not only that but he gets to have pretty significant memories of them. By the end of this encounter Naruto might become better able to understand Saskuke’s pain because he now has ties with his real family too!

    This connection woukd be felt even more strongly if Naruto were to re-live the events that led to his [arents death. It would allow him to empathize with Sasuke’s feelings of anger and hopelessness at the idea of being able to see his parents die but unable to do anything to prevent it.I’m sure that all the fans of Naruto would favor more depth to the nine-tails attck ofn the Leaf Village than just random pictures and passive narrations.

    Who knows? If Naruto were to take this opportunity to dive into Kushina’s past, especially the parts surrounding the kyubi, we might be able to discover Madara’s true identity. At the very least we might get a little more explanation as to what the Kyubi feels it takes to actually win against him.

    Another question tgat is answered by Kushina’s appearance is how she feels about her son. Personally I think “Naruto” .was a simple yet perfect opening line for her. It expresses a mother’s love more clearly than phrases like “my heir” or even “my son.” This is a perfectly reasonable question to ask when considering Gaara’s relationship to his parents.

    After all, as Kazekage, he repeatedly tried to take him out ever since Gaara was six years old. This fact seems to happen a lot with the village hosts. But that’s another discussion.
    Gaara’s relationship with his mpther is even more interesting because it is more complex. As we all know, growing up, Gaara was comforted in his belief that his mother must have been as kind and gentle as her brother was to him. Gaara’s uncler gave him his first lessons in compassion and appreciation and he must have attributed these traits to his mother. Even after his uncle’s betrayal through the admission of the utmost hatred held against Gaara by the mother he had learned to endear, he still tries to appease this artificial memory of her. For the next part of his life Gaara honors her memory with the bloody tribute of his many kills.

    Gaara has said that he was endowed with the presence of the One-tail racoon spirit while his mother was still pregnant. This brings me back to Naruto and Kushina. Maybe Naruto inherited the kyubi spirit from his mother by just being born.

    I know its far-fetched to believe that Naruto and the kyubi might be related virtually by blood, but it might be another way of explaining Kushina’s death. Now that I think about it, I hope the Kishi doesn’t reveal this sort of Star Wars-sized revelation. Anyway, we are going to find out mopre next week, for sure.

  28. all i can say right now is that i’m really glad to finally see some more of Kushina. she sounds like an awesome character, and, well, let’s just say, i have to agree w/ Minato’s “preferences” (for those of u who didn’t get it, i’m calling Naruto’s mom hot)

  29. maybe what itachi gave naruto was the means to see minato and kusina. i mean it was a genjustu crow. and those images will help him defeat sasuke. and kushina will be important to help naruto get his greatest power, control over the fox. and i think itachi didn’t want naruto to have that power unless he really needed it. so itachi helped naruto gain his powers, cause remember if the host and beast are one genjustu doesn’t work. and that is one of sasukes strengths

  30. so now we know where naruto’s love of collared shirts came from. 😀
    for real though i don’t think kushina was ever the host of the kyuubi, we know the nine tails was sealed at the cutting of naruto’s umbilical (spelling) cord. i think it is more likely that sealing the biju in a host that early, plus the strain of child birth, left kushina with only enough energy to seal apart of himself into naruto. This used up the last of her stamina and she passed… mostly.

  31. SOMEONE Really needs to make a Kushina-Gaiden! :|. 😀

  32. @ naruto tutor, i didn’t read your comment until just now (was to lazy to read to many comments, and even then i read less then a third of all comments) but “Gaara has said that he was endowed with the presence of the One-tail racoon spirit while his mother was still pregnant. . . Maybe Naruto inherited the kyubi spirit from his mother by just being born”, when Gaara said he got the Ichibi when his mother was pregnant, it meant that the Ichibi was sealed inside of Gaara as an unborn fetus, not that his mom was a Jinchuriki and it passed into him

  33. I dont think Kushina is part of the seal or a part of naruto’s subconcious.. As Naruto was pulling on the Good Chakra, some of the bad came with it (as told) and the bad Chakra looked alot like all of the Hatred from the People he might of killed in the Past.. We dont know what happened to the mother but if the Fox did Kill Naruto’s Mother.. Then her Soul or Hatred would be in the Fox.. Most of the people were telling Naruto to get away and you dont belong, but Naruto’s mother was the only one that seemed to welcome Naruto into the Fox

  34. i don’t agree with momma being first host thing. because the fox was “released” at konaha, so i think that negates that possibility at the least.

    i don’t agree with other speculations about his momma either, it’s still too early… everything about her is just “fan imagination”…

    but why did she appear? i have to agree with bob.

    nothing else to add. still too early.

  35. @kisuzachi-

    And dont forget that if pein couldnt take a hit from the RasenShuriken, and the kyuubi can and still get back up being the only character to ever survive the attack, then just think what the kyuubi could to BACK to pein :p.

  36. sorry i meant to say

    think what the kyuubi could Do Back to pein

  37. @ forbidden jutsu, good point
    @lilmoe, glad u said that. all we know about Kushina: she’s Naruto’s mom, Jiraiya described her as being tomboyish, Kishi said she liked pulling pranks when younger, and that Kushina’s fairly attractive for a mom 😉

  38. After this chapter I don’t know if I believe in the Jubi story anymore. If kyuubi is this powerful and this full of hate how could the sage be able to handle the jubi? Even kb seemed surprised by how powerful the fox is and he tamed the next best thing and the fox is only a fraction of the jubi. Plus we don’t even k ow if madara is MADARA! Sorry to leave the kushina topic.
    @kisuzachi
    don’t forget with sage mode naruto has limitless chakra just lime kyuubi, he just can’t call on too much at one time(2 rasenshuriken limit). And kyuubi must be immensely powerful to knock naruto out of sage mode. Pain showed what he could do vs kyuubi. Trap it@ 2/3 power and not be able to handle anymore. I know you doubt the tailed beast but I think this ones legit.

  39. @eaglesfan-

    Yea and kyuubi didnt just knock him out of it, he did it almost instantly.

    As almighty bob said, the kyuubi is a beast in more than just the literal sense of the word. He’s like a combination of every power ranger, chuck norris, godzilla, doc oc, batman, and even Mr.Rogers put together lmao.

    Seriously though, he’s not just a pissed off fox, he’s a really smart and powerful pissed off fox. i think he needs to get laid, let some of that steam blow off XD.

    No matter what pein could do, he would never have been able to take the fox down by sheer force, wev seen people try that approach, never works.

  40. @ smartass “i think he needs to get laid, let some of that steam blow off XD”, lol, i’ve always imagined the fox would somehow b connected to Naruto losing his virginity some time in the future, looks like we’re on the same page
    onto more relevant matters
    @ eaglesfan, hmm, that’s a good point about the Juubi, how the hell could something that’s all Bijuu combined, and probably roughly 4 or 5 times as powerful and hateful as the Kyuubi have just existed along w/ mankind, then get pwned by some random dude just cuz he’s got wigged out eyes? unless: the Juubi and Sage of 6 Paths were, *gulps* ALIENS DUN DUN DUUUNNNN, lol, j/k, i think Madara/Tobi mighta just BS’d the whole thing to freak ppl out, or maybe he was misinformed and really thought the Juubi was real, and he goes to the moon (teleporting) to find a lifeless hunk of rock where he explodes from the void! that would actually b an anti-climactic ending, but it would b funny 😀

  41. @eaglefan the sage is the ultimate ninja in every sense of the word. Seeing how powerful the kyuubi is makes me even more impressed with the sage. This should go to show just how powerful the sag was that he could control a beast ten times stronger than the kyuubi and remember he is considered to be legendary. Also on the pein comments pein could handle the 7 and maybe 8 tails but 9 would be pushing it. Remember although pein said he could make a bigger moon this does not by any way suggest that it would even hold it. Pein ( although I will say he was severely weakened ) was taken down by a normal rasengan while the nine tails withstood a full powered sage mode wind shuriken direct hit and he still looked more pissed than injured.

  42. To think the Kyuubi is this strong with half its chakra gone, I mean Minato did in fact seal half the Kyuubi chakra inside the Reaper Death seal and the other half within Naruto using the Four Element seal. Naruto is mastering the chakra that is sealed within himself, that still leaves the other Kyuubi chakra in the Reaper Death Seal in the air, could the jutsu Minato, Jiraiya and Naruto have been talking about be reffering to a jutsu that unseals the Reaper Death Seal so that Naruto, after mastering the Kyuubi chakra within himself, goes after the Kyuubi chakra inside the Reaper Death Seal. I still think that Kushina might have been the former host, it is possible to deliver a baby even after the mother has died if they act quickly of course. It would fit perfectly with Minato fighting the Kyuubi and Madara on his own, since it was so personal, also explain why Kushina appeared to Naruto, it could also be a ploy from the Kyuubi to distract Naruto and then sucker punch him. hahaha.

  43. @Smartass, the Kyubi’s pure chakra, it can be absorbed.

    If you dont buy that, it can get its soul pulled out.

    Not buying that? Shinra Tensei could destroy it. Its stronger than Rasenshuriken.

    Too far-fetched you say? Then I say HA! Pain has a summon that cant be killed, that should be good for a lengthy distraction.

    Maybe you know, who’s to say the Hachibi’s a guy. Maybe Kyubi can get laid 😉

    @whoever said Sage Mode chakra is limitless, if it was, why is it that after two Rasenshuriken it runs out? 😉

  44. bob good post as usual and i know we’re all pulling out our hair trying to find a reasonable answer to kushina’s apperance…….sadly i don’t think there will be one. i mea this is the naruto world ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!
    …..planet sized rasengans……..

    second i disagree with as to why kushina is there ad who said she was dead….come on much weirder things have happened. but we all just guessed that she either died in child birth or in the kyuubi attack

  45. great post as always bob.

    ok best chapter in weeks. I think that Kushina is the power that came from Itachi, i just went back and read chapter 403 and he said “I’ve given you some of my power. I hope…. the day never comes when you have to used it.” now what that means to me is “that day” means when the next ninja war comes.

  46. @kisuzachi
    It’s limitless in the sense you won’t run out. Controlling it after using such advanced chakra control techniques is a different story. I covered that in my comment. Chakra requires stamina and using a jutsu suck as rasenshuriken requires a draining amount of concentration.

    @token
    it wouldn’t be 10x stronger I think more like 2x if I’m right each beast is to all previos beast combined. I also wasn’t discreditting the sage I don’t trust tobi

  47. great chapter kushina probably had her soul imprinted in naruto like minato had him. but one was outside the cage and the other inside.

  48. haha, im so not interested in Kushina. Why don’t thee people just stay dead….or outside of the story.

    @Eaglesfan, I get what you’re saying. But it essentially ran out if you cant use it anymore lol. The Kyubi’s power isnt limitless as well. The point is, even if the 9 tails took over in Pain’s fight with Naruto it would have lost. Remember Pain also wanted to fight the Kyubi and Akatsuki’s usual strategy is to fight the Biju, not the Jinchuriki.

  49. @kisuzachi
    It was Itachi who was going to fight the 9tail not Pain

  50. Anyone notice the kyuubi needed to eat the chakra mass before shooting rather then how he was in his 6 tails state when he could just shoot? I thought that was really weird

  51. @kisu: blabla is right in that itachi was chosen to hunt the kyuubi down ( shows just how powerful itachi and his eyes were even when near death). Also just because pein wanted to fight the biju doesn’t mean he would have won. People forget that generally akatsuki were in 2 man units to take down the biju. Pein as strong as he was still may have lost to a full powered out of control biju. I don’t understand why people are underestimating the true power of the nine tails fox. Also kisu u mentioned that the tensei of pwin

  52. Sry hit publish lol. I was saying that kisu you said the tensei of pein is stronger than the wind style rasengan shuriken. I’m Not So sure that’s true. Granted pein destroyed the entire village but as massive as that was a lot of people managed to survive thanks to tsunades summon. However aside from the nine tails demon fox no one has survived a rasengan shuriken (and kakuza counts as dying 3 or 4 times over lol) tensei does have destructive force but remember naruto has never tried using rasengan on such a large scale (it also is a literal one hit kill) and I believe after seeing the fox fight if he tried hard enough he could fins a way to make the shuriken work just as good or better than Shiraz tensei.

  53. @ token, uhm, kakuzu only died twice from the Rasenshuriken: he started w/ 5 hearts, lost one to Kakashi’s Raikiri, lost one to Hidan’s ritural (Shikamaru got some of Kakuzu’s blood and tricked Hidan into licking that instead), 2 to Naruto’s Rasenshuriken, and then the last one Kakashi destroyed while Kakuzu was paralysed.
    @ kisu, Katsuya, possibly the weakest of the Sannin’s summons (i say so as Tsunade is the weakest of the Sannin, and her students Sakura, Ino and Shizune r the weakest of the Sannin’s students [Naruto, Minato, Ame orphans for Jiraiya; Sasuke, Kabuto, Sound 5, Anko for Orochimaru]), and yet she was able to withstand Pain’s largest and strongest Shinra Tensei easy. i think the Kyuubi would b better at that. also, the Kyuubi, at less than full power, easily broke thru Pain’s strongest jutsu (Chibiku Tensei). and to add onto that, the Kyuubi can probably heal itself as fast or faster than he can heal Naruto, which would b pretty damn fast. altho, to b fair, Pain is practically a jack of all trades and master of most, so it’s possible he might pull something that the Kyuubi can’t see coming. altho i think that over-powering something that destroys mountians just by flicking its tail(s) is a very logical answer, and sucking up all the Kyuubi’s chakra probably wouldn’t b the solution either (as Sage chakra petrified Ghost Realm, so i think Kyuubi chakra might do some pretty heavy damage too) (note, those were 2 of the ways u listed that Pain could defeat the Kyuubi, i find them illogical). i’ll give Pain the benefit of the doubt tho (i hope i used this term correctly), and call it a tie

  54. oops, “altho i think that over-powering something that destroys mountians just by flicking its tail(s) is a very logical answer”, i meant “is NOT”

  55. @Rasenshuriken being stronger than Shinra, why is it that the Shinra always completely blew away Rasenshuriken? Why is it Shinra’s explosion is bigger (well this one’s not too much of a valid point considering HOW the Rasenshuriken attacks)?

    @Nemo, the epicentre of the blast, ie, where it was most powerful had no life. Only those on the outskirts of the crater survived. Plus Katsuyu is more defense oriented than Gamabunta (one Shinra Tensei took him out) and Manda (one giant knife took him out)

  56. It. Blows away cause there is a pushback. This does by no way mean the shurican is weaker. I’m trying to say if shira tensei hits there is still a chance of survival. After all the big toad was hit by tensei and sustained many many broken bones but was still alive and trying to move around (BTW this so far looks like the extreme in terms of damage done) the rasenshuriken (besides the demon fox) has completely annihilated anyone it hits and in just about every case has been a one hit kill shot. Tensei simply does not have that potential. Its a highly effective And potent attack but naruto has the potential to make the wind shuriken way more destructive than it even currently is.

  57. BTW I remember the attack being absorbed but I never remember the wind shuriken being pushed back

  58. @ token, Shinra Tensei did counter Rasenshuriken rather nicely, but i thought the main point was Kyuubi vs Pain, not Naruto vs Pain.
    i see the Kyuubi as having far more brute force/stamina (Pain’s exhausted from destroying a city, the Kyuubi can destroy several mountains by wiggling its butt), and Pain’s large scale jutsu (gravity, summons) would really only piss the fox off, while Pain’s small scale jutsu (taijutsu, missles, sould/chakra stealing) would have little effect as they’re either close range (soul stealing), relatively weak (compared to the Kyuubi; missles), or both (taijutsu), and as shown 6-Tail fox vs Pain, Pain fears getting to close to a 2/3 power Kyuubi, and his strongest attack barely even slows down an 8/9 power Kyuubi. my point is that Pain would have incredible trouble fighting the Kyuubi and would not b able to get above a tie. Naruto vs Pain, however, i feel Naruto would’ve lost if it weren’t for the Kyuubi, and if Naruto had NO access to the Kyuubi, then Naruto would have no chance of beating Pain

  59. on a separate note from the same old nagato vs the world debate…

    if naruto takes control of the kyuubi, hopefully he’ll tell us more about Madara and Minato and some of the other gaps of the past. He’s old as shit, so hell, he could even tell us if the Juubi story is right or not.

  60. pein is dead, he got beat by naruto and the kyuubi woulda raped him…end of story. One of the main reasons pain was undefeated was because no1 had intel on him and without intel on a technique like his it is pretty much impossible to beat. Taking on 6 Kage lvl ninja that constantly surprise you and u dont know about could b a real b1tch as 1 man. As the 9 tail fox i imagine it wouldnt have been much of a problem considering its chakra reserves, strength and fighting experience. So in a Kyuubi vs Pein fight i say give it to the Kyuubi and let there be cake! 😀

  61. Can someone show me where the rasenshurilen was repelled by tensei? I don’t recall pein ever using tensei on the rasenshuriken.

  62. hey guys! its been a while since i posted on here but believe i read every week,wether its comments or original material or surveys i love this site. that being said i still have a hard time understanding why people dont like naruto using his signature move. i unserstand that we want him to learn new jutsus,but please get over it. Even bob said recycled or slightly altered versions, come on man,they are ninja’s not magicians. humans learn something and they try 2 make it better. im sure most of us read and watched dbz,and what did goku use? kamehameha and spirit bomb. im sure we watch and read bleach. if i even have 2 say ichigo’s(and if your reading u know he’s not the only one with this move,hope i didnt spoil anything) move,again come on man.u can only use what u know,dont get caught up in fillers where they have 17 justsu’s.naruto is who he is,the kyubi is who he is.u cant learn too many more new tricks sorry get over it and appreciate what they have please!

  63. @bj although goku used Kamehameha and spirit bomb a lot the flashy fighting and different ki blasts variants (not to mentioned power-ups and crazy quick chain combos) made gokus fighting style a lot more interesting and fun to watch or read. Naruto has gotten slightly predictable and has not shown too much hand to hand combat and for some that’s why he is considered bland specially compared to fighters like pein itachi and sasuke who are all fast and quick with jutsus and seals

  64. Seriously anti Pein people??? The Kyuubi is not invincible… Minato defeated it… And Madar controlled it… And Pein was/is stronger than the two… Pein clearly didnt use his full strenght or arsenal against Kyuubi and if all else fails he does have a dragon statue with a bunch of eyes that would be all to willing to suck up the Fox’s chakra… A 100 percent Pein defeats the Nine Tails…

  65. Sigh all you pro pein people wake up lol. Minato won cause he used one of the most powerful jutsus of all and at that he sealed half in naruto and the other in the reaper. Madara had the sharingan which has nothing to do with beating the fox; madara just basically made the demon fox his bitch. Yea a whole lot of coulds and what ifs but fact is pein in dead and naruto/kyuubi killed him. Pein gone, kyuubi and naruto alive…. fact

    Btw itachi could have possibly beaten the fox had he been healthy and alive. He was one of the best at using the sharingan and I think he could have manipulated the kyuubi. Itachi rules and may he r.I.p

  66. BTW mentioning the statue is a waste of time…not only does the kyuubi have to be knocked for an extended period of time but it takes a group of high class ninja to seal it over 2 or 3 days. So I don’t see what the statue has to do with anything about pein being stronger than kyuubi.

  67. @ token
    we arent reading the same manga… Pein committed suicide… He wasnt beaten or killed by anyone… He willingly gave up his life to revive everyone in which the most powerful technique used in naruto killed…
    And not many people are claiming Pein would out muscle the fox, jus beat him with superior techniques…

  68. @Nemo, Pain’s most powerful jutsu wasnt at full power. He didnt want to use the full power because it would have completely crushed and killed Naruto, but when Naruto broke out he said he’d just make a bigger one with his same usual expression.

    Also, PAIN CAN ABSORB THE KYUBI’S CHAKRA, steal its soul and has a summon that CANT be killed. Gedo Mazo is only icing on the cake. Once it gets the Kyubi it will be immobile until its sealed.

  69. and as far as the statue goes. i obviously didnt specify well enough.. No shit the statue by itself would be useless. But with a little imagination and the documented powers of Pein one can see how a combination attack with both the statue and the gravityball thingy technique could beat the kyuubi…

  70. It’s never gonna be the end of the story, people act like Naruto didn’t get saved twice (Old Toad & Hinata) Naruto didn’t kill Pein, and Pein wasn’t trying to kill him. Naruto won off interference and Pein was exhausted

    Doesn’t the Rinnegan give you the ability to control tailed beast or is that only for well trained sharigan users, Pein is the Best or was the Best, Now it’s Kabuto.

  71. True I did over exaggerate about pein being killed however how can you say pein wasn’t beaten? You pein groupies are So in love with him that it has escaped your minds that all 6 paths of pein were destroyed, when pein tried to control naruto he overcame it with the kyuubi chakra and a fox sage mode hybrid and was so persuasive that pein turned around. Not only that but like itachi peins life was being expended rapidly and Jinan noted on more than one occassion how peins antics were costing him his life. Also the dog summon can be defeated by killing te summon pein
    Once That’s is accomplished no more dog also yea pein could have done this stuff but he’s dead along with itachi. Seems to me the pein talk should be over with. So I don’t want to hear with a little imagination and peins power he could beat the kyuubi. Peins dead he lost all his six paths which had never happened before and naruto if he was more vengeful could have killed nagato Where he sat skinny with one foot in the grave.

  72. Ugh and here we go with kabuto talk….. the fun never ends.

  73. BTW byagugan invasion…… naruto beat pein didn’t kill him and pein admitted he wasn’t trying to kill naruto. When he stabbed naruto to the ground he told him that he was not struck in any vital organs…. seems to me like that shows he is trying to preserve naruto. Pein was a cool character but lets not start with kabuto…. he has appeared in Like a couple recent chapters and aside from the ressurection jutsu has shown nothing battle wise an we have no details yet on his true powers so lets not get carried away

  74. oh yea, and on the outside while kyuubi’s chakra is leaking out, i hope Bee finally uses Samehada to keep Naruto from transforming. I wonder then, if Kisame will use that opportunity to gain power and then try and take out both Bee and Naruto

  75. lol, i think it’s bob’s fault everyone’s so excited and giving out lots of opinions.

    again, it’s too early, his mom is one of the VERY few characters in the story who is completely shaded out except for some hints about her personality, which i think doesn’t helps much in analyzing or speculating about related. on the exact contrary of the 4th (his dad)… EVERYONE talks about the dude, and we know a LOT about his past character and power. big difference.

  76. @Token, Naruto didnt beat Pain either. Nagato has the abilities of all the other bodies and instead of using a massive amount of chakra to bring everyone back, he could have easily Shinra Tenseid Naruto.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/433/15/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/433/16/

    Shinra Tensei defeats Rasenshuriken quite effortlessly.

  77. Now we are Pein groupies??? To me Pein losing all six bodies is such a baseless points… All he needs apparently is dead bodies and rods, well as for bodies he has the whole leaf village to pick from… Stick a few rods in them and he’s off and running…

  78. @uchiha_gaiden, I think thats a good theory, Bee is a smart guy, if the scene with Naruto’s mom doesnt help naruto over come the evil completly I could defitently see Bee using samehada to cut down the foxes power and then Kisame trying to attack them both while there vulnerable.

  79. @ nautards: This just in from our reporters at channel 6, naruto defeated pein in battle of force and ideology. The current battle is between naruto and kyuubi not kyuubi and pein. If pein comes back into the scene THEN we should discuss kyuubi vs pein but until then can’t we all just get along?

  80. I’m not a groupie, I just call it like it is. Pein is number 1, Itachi is number 2, Jiraiya is number 3 (maybe). Yes it might be to early too say Kabuto is the best, but tell me, Who is better than him right now? The reason I say he’s the best right now is because look at his skills, He has all the Jutsu’s perfect for WAR, I’m not even talking about Edo Tensei, Look at all his jutsu’s before that. Kabuto almost killed Lady Tsunade. Did I mention he has perfected Edo Tensei. He could bring back Jiraiya for all the Jiraiya fans

  81. Nevermind about Kabuto being the best, were just gonna have to wait and see how many people he’s gonna kill. and I expect him & Sasuke to kill alot in this war. I can’t wait for this war to pop off already. Someone should make a thread on Death predictions.

    If defeating a person means: 1. The person your trying to beat is not trying to kill you. 2. You wait until your opponent use up halve their Chakra on your village. 3. you get saved more then once. Then yes Naruto defeated Pein, if that was the true meaning of defeat.

  82. ” Mom’s Here to Scare Off the Big Bad Fox”
    ROLF ~ ROLF

    Anyway Naruto have become: “Dance with the death” drama
    (Yondaime, Itachi and the rest of Akatsuki, Kushina, etc)
    I miss Kishi’s old stile

  83. Dude BI you need to take a chill pill. At the end of the battle naruto was alive and nagato wasn’t, that’s honestly all that matters. And the 2 best are naruto and, as much as I hate to admit this, sasuke. Pein, itatchi, jiraya, even the sage are all just predessors to these two. Yes I do think they will surpass the sage, not quite yet but they will.

  84. EF: I’ll take a chill pill when nautards or what ever you call it take a huge pill called reality. I’m not gonna comment on Naruto being number 1 and Sasuke being number 2. I just want to be fair that’s all

  85. @Eaglesfan, this whole thing started because of one passing comment I made WAY above. But it was just an observation and further testament to Pain’s power. But by your line of logic, I suppose Naruto in Part 1 of the series was stronger than the Shukaku, because in the end he was the only one standing lol. As for Nagato and the Sage of Six Paths, no ninja will EVER surpass them. The Rinnegan trumps any other power up. The power to revive the dead is the ultimate ability.

    “I’m not gonna comment on Naruto being number 1 and Sasuke being number 2.”

    Haha I’ll follow your lead on that one Byakugan lol.

  86. omg lol is it really that hard for ppl to admit pein is dead? naruto and he fought, naruto did something no one else had ever done to pein by killing his 6 bodies and yet somehow while in the grave pein is the victor cause he revived ppl instead of using tensei on naruto… yea that makes alotttt of sense to me. and as for the strongest the three people you mentioned as being the strongest are ALL dead! idc that sasuke technically really lost to itachi and jiryia didnt kno peins secret. Sasuke did do a good enough job to have to push itachi pretty far and pein killing jiryia cause he didnt kno his secret is a still a legitimate kill. Pein is DEAD people. I dont want to have to hear about how strong pein was… he is DEAD naruto is ALIVE as is the kyuubi. pein groupies I kno its hard… but deal with it.

  87. And you say nagato will never be surpassed??? At narutos young age, which even by ninja standards is very young, went toe to toe with someone who was considered by his village to be a GOD and your saying naruto cant or wont surpass nagato? thats a litttle crazy and that shows just how biased some people are towards pein and his abilities. Was he powerful? absolutely. Was he strong? hell yea. Is he dead after being severely weakened by naruto and than reviving people? yes I think he is. Is madara really the one pulling the strings and by some would be considered to be stronger than pein? quite possibly yes. So dont say no one will surpass nagato cause if u add in the years naruto and sasuke can train and get stronger to reach nagatos age there is a strong likely hood they will surpass nagato by a good amount. by the way reviving the dead is the ultimate ability yea… but how often can the user use it? o yea nagato used it once than died… yea real useful and spammable ability there.

    O and whos peins daddy? think its naruto and the kyuubi 🙂 Whos alive and kicking? naruto. Say goodnight to pein kisu. I know its hard but peins gone forever… too bad he cant rez himself from the dead huh. that would be a useful talent.

  88. No one’s saying Pain isnt dead. We’re simply saying Pain can beat the Kyubi, Pain is stronger than Naruto, Pain was not defeated by Naruto, Pain has the best abilities seen thus far, and Pain will never be surpassed.

    By your line of logic, The Sage of Six Paths wasnt strong either because he’s dead, and so is Hiruzen and Orochimaru. The thing is, everything Byakugan and I are saying about Pain is factual.

    I’d also like to add that Naruto beat 4 of the six bodies because Nagato was trying to protect God Realm, had he attacked at full force with all of them, Naruto would be dead now and the Kyubi would have a new home. Itachi held back in his fight with Sasuke (according to Madara) AND was already dying of a disease (according to Madara). Itachi can be surpassed in the future, but definitely not a man that can control who lives or dies.

  89. @ kisuzachi
    no naruto was stronger than gaara because he beat shukaku by beating gaara. And as for the rinnegan being the ultimate weapon I can’t argue that but remember a better ninja with a rock can beat a lesser ninja with a kunia. Nobody is saying the sage, 1st hokage, orochimara, and pein were weak. The sage died of old age and nobody lives forever. The fact that he as a ninja was able to live long enough to die by nature’s hand is a testament to his power. But I think naruto will surpass the sage because he seems to be able to do the one thing that the sage and jiraya couldn’t do and that’s bring peace. And again naruto may be able to surpass him because he is the hardest training ninja out there. But I think i’ll leave that up to Kishi to decide.

  90. @Eaglesfan, haha. OH I see what you’re getting at. Naruto will surpass them in terms of ideology, right? If that’s the case then sure he will, he’s the protagonist in a Shounen manga. I still think Pain had the best plan for peace in war-torn world of ninjas, but w/e.

  91. “Naruto was a newborn during the Kyuubi attack” It said that it was several months after in a databook, and the water could be ceremonial or just from Minato giving him a bath…

    “Kushina couldn’t have sealed herself into Naruto as a part of the Kyuubi sealing”: This is only Bob’s theory, not anything that has been stated, I’m saying that because she appeared along with all those other disembodied faces, she became a part of the Kyubbi as it’s host and THAT’S how she got there.

    “Therefore I would assume he was still in possession of it.”: That’s rediculous, no-one would leave a massive war machine lying around where anyone could steal it…

    “the only person we know who was able to literally control the kyuubi”: Hashirama also had full control, his jutsu were stronger than Yammato’s (who doesn’t) and he could control the beasts like pets.

    I think Pein vs. Kyubbi is based on a few things. I think the Kyubbi has the better abilities, but doesn’t use them correctly, so if he had some form of strategy the fox would win, but he doesn’t so he wouldn’t. I don’t think that HGR could absorb the Kyubbi because there is just too much chakra and it is very dangerous. I think Soul-stealing Pein would just get in a tug-of-war like the one Naruto is in and probably get owned due to how much hate Nagato has in his heart, Shinre Tensei wouldn’t be all that usefull, because the five second window would leave him wide open to the Kyubbi’s faster attacks. However like I said, I don’t think the fox could figure all of this out.

  92. “But with a little imagination and the documented powers of Pein one can see how a combination attack with both the statue and the gravityball thingy technique could beat the kyuubi”: Given the extreme pain (not to mention near death aging effect that causes said pain) I doubt Nagato can even move effectively, let alone use combo attacks when using Gedo Mazo, furthermore, the statue isn’t invicible, and right now it can’t even be used against the Kyubbi, or it will break and free all the tailed beasts, because it needs to be “balanced” or something (according to Itachi I beleive).

  93. I think Naruto will completely surpass Nagato when he has mastered the Kyubbi. Look at all the excuses people use to defend Nagato when he battled Naruto, 1. He didn’t summon the Toads: with limitless chakra this wouldn’t be much of a problem 2. He could have used a bigger Shinrei Tensei at the end or Chibaku Tensei on a larger scale: Naruto can power up as well with the last tale and senjutsu. 3. Pein wasn’t trying to kill him, so he would have died when hinata saved him: I refer you to Naruto’s first major victory, when he used Kyubbi Chakra to repel needles out of his body and then heal instantly.

  94. @mart1…..WIN!

  95. @everyone that dosen’t agree with token, come on son.are we reading the same thing here?no one is doubting how strong pain was(yes was,he’s dead so mourn)but your telling me naruto didn’t beat him?your lying 2 yourself.i saw some one compare it 2 the itachi,sasuke battle,except they got that one wrong too. sasuke did’t win,nor did he really take itachi 2 the brink,he was already dying.he went soft on his lil bro to get that last bit of irochimaru out of him.naruto on the other hand had the best style 2 defeat pain. i mean be real, sasuke wasn’t going 2 beat pain,i dont care how u spin it,his smarts,his power whatever he loses. naruto broke down all 6 paths albiet cuz he had intel on them,he had a plan and style that worked.its like boxing,that was a bad matchup for pain,styles make fights and thats all there is to it.

    and as far as nobody surpassin pain?lol come on son. who helped the wheelchair bound nagato get new bodies?thats a weekness no other ninja had.he needed help like evryone else.who was the man behind the scenes?i mean if your following someone u had 2 conceded they were stronger right?i mean how could u follow someone u were superior to? and sorry guys but the 8 tails is a bad mofu as well.just ask sasuke about that one.there are already stronger ninjas than pain….in my opinion.

  96. Everybody has their own opinion, But saying Naruto had beat Pein without any HELP is CRAZY. If there was one thing I liked about Akatsuki it would be the fact that most, if not all their battles were ONE on ONE (No Interference). Those who disagree are the true groupies, A few of us like to see fair fights like Sasuke vs Deidara.

    I would admit to this though. Naruto will surpass Pein wants he has full control over the 9 tails. I say this because the 9 Tailed Fox is the strongest out of all tailed beast, and the Sage of 6 Paths was the 10 tailed jinchūriki. The Sage controlled the strongest of all tailed beast, and if Naruto can control the 2nd strongest and get some new Jutsu’s, he will eventually surpass Pein I guess

    ^^^^ See what I did, I just admitted something. A few of you need to learn that (Token, bj316, and anyone else that agrees with them). Pein owns All.

  97. @BI: I totally agree that Pein is the ultimate ninja in Naruto and that he could probably take out the kyuubi. people need to envisage a Pein v kyuubi fight in all its totality; 6beings attacking the kyuubi simultaneously.
    I have just realised something that annoys me about Naruto…. I am a fan of colossal techniques, but doesn’t t anyone else feel that they need to be matched with more subtle, effective but less destructive techniques? I mean seriously, Naruto can’t battle in a crowded area. Imagine had he reached Konoha before it was destroyed, he would have been responsible for a large part of destroying the place.

  98. this arc is making me see Naruto in a whole new light, I used to assume that he was this righteous, hardworking ninja who overcame all the adversity in his life. But the truth is he just harboured some hectic hatred in him. Additionally, he has actually been saved by his hatred and the kyuubi in most battles. So the big issue is… How is he so different from Sasuke?

  99. Hi guys & gals… Long time reader, but i’ve been on the side lines long enough. What a awesome chapter, neva read all the comments but WOW!! What a bombshell. Never saw that coming at all. Don’t agree with the idea of Kushina being the previous kyuubi host, we know according to the 4th that Tobi was there at the attack 16yrs ago most likely controlling the kyuubi. By Naruto standards we know that controlling the 9tails is extremely difficult. So if Kushina was the previous host, how is it that despite bein controlled by Tobi she now seems immune to the foxes hatred. Wouldn’t that mean she was the perfect jinchiruuki, then by the same standard wouldn’t the kyuubi be immune to Tobi’s control (i believe the kyuubi is controlled by manipulating its hate) just as the 8tails is 2 genjutsu. Anyway, just feel that it is more likely & sensable that it is similar to what the 4th did. They probably did it 2getha.

  100. Ok im gonna say this really quick because a few days ago in my attempt to put all my thoughts and predictions into the discussion for this week’s chapter my charger for my laptop decides to die so those dreams were shot but I believe that in the next chapters to come were goin to find out that Kushina, being from the former whirlpool country, had some ties to the water country, maybe the whirlpool village was actually a part of the water country, Which would mean that the Uzumaki clan were natives of the water country. A country along with Konoha that has already been proven to be the birthplace for ninja with Kekkai Genkai abilities can certainly be an explanation for why Naruto has been so strong to this point especially when it comes to withstanding the damage that the fox’s chakra had on his body. So I believe that we might find out that Naruto has the bloodline to gain a kekkai genkai maybe something similar to Haku’s(who i believe may be of Uzumaki orgin due to this http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/29/01/) Kekkai genkai except more cyclone/whirlpool attack based instead of ice based

  101. oops didnt copy the link right my bad http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/29/01/

  102. “6beings attacking the kyuubi simultaneously”: The Kyubbi took on all of Konoha and then fought to a draw with it’s Kage. So did Pain, but I still don’t see six jounin level bodies as a problem

  103. @BI-

    And you do realize that Pein wasnt even fighting the kyuubi at a 2/3 his full power, remember A FULL HALF of the Kyuubi’s power is locked away in the reaper seal, so really pein was fighting Kuubi at a half of A HALF of its full strength, and not even that because it never went full 9 Tailed strength.

    A fully powered Kyuubi would have demolished pein

  104. Wow nice catch smart. I think a lot of people forget that this is a extremely weakened fox at this point and the scary part is we have not even seen the 9 tails of a half powered fox. This shows to me just how powerful minato actually was when he faced a full powered uncontrollable beast of a nine tails. Minato was a beasssssssst and I wish there was a gaiden of some sort that shows a full out brawl between the fox and Minato.

  105. Lol, it always goes back to Pein vs Naruto doesn’t it ;p Maybe we should have a post devoted to that debate, but I’m afraid it would only add fuel to the fire, lolz.
    But nonetheless, these are the type of discussions Shannaro!!! deserves 🙂 What a difference a single chapter can make to get everyone talking. I just wanted to say great job to everyone this week, Shannaro!!! is nothing without you guys.

  106. @bob: ahh shucks we know! ;p

  107. @madz: for some reason there doesnt seem to a powerful yet subtle jutsu in existance. all of them either cause HUGE damage to the target and everything else, or very little. i could be wrong i just don’t remember seeing any impressive small scale ones and if i am please correct me.

  108. @eaglesfan: FTG, shikamaru’s shadows, KB’s maria, madara and kakashi’s time/space jutsu, sasuke and KB’S swordplay. The list goes on. I just want more finese than your moves just being these geographically destructive things like odama and gargantuan rasengan and FRS. I’m pretty much talking about techniques to use against normal ninja not crazy techniques that only suit tailed beasts and godlike ninja

  109. sorry I meant KB’s lariat

  110. “small scale ones”: Rasengan, Jiraiya’s element attacks, all Kage level techniques, Kisame’s fighting, and a few others fit the criteria.

  111. about Kisame… disregard that. and by kage level techniques I mean the ones used at the summmit.

  112. @Bob yeah it always seems to get back to pein vs naruto, or jiraiya, or whatever but hey it keeps shannaro active and alive

    You know someone brought up the fox being at half power and how rediculious the fox’s power is considering its at half and knowing Minato took on such a creature by himself is insane, now considering how he done against the fox we really cant say much. but I would love to see a full flashback of him fighting the fox and the whole sealin the fox in naruto, thats the kinda fillers we need to see instead of these past lanky ones. except for the last one and im sure the new one with minato will be awesome

  113. @minato fan: this goes along with my feelings on minato being one of the most powerful shinobi in the naruoverse, of course baring ninja such as the sage of the six paths as he is on a whole new level. I dont remember exactly who but a while ago someone said that minato while good wasn;t anything too special… but after putting all of this in perspective and looking at how all these current ninjas are faring against a half powered, never been to the nine-tails state, watered down demon fox i think we have to consider minato to be one of the top 5 shinobi ninjas in the manga, possibly top 3.

  114. I think Minato is strong but doesn’t make my top three of Madara, Kabuto, and Pein, However I think the next two on the list are Jiraiya and Minato. Itachi just barely missed the top five though most would probably bump off Kabuto, and given this substitution, I think that it’s clear that Minato is among the top five unquestionably strong ninja.

  115. wait wait wait…. Kabuto over Minato????!?!?!?!?! madara I can see seeing as how he is powerul enough to manipulate the demon fox at his beck and call. but kabuto?!??! and Pein!?? come on! Who has kabuto faced off with that has the power of the full powered nine-tails fox?? And pein was defeated by naruto and a noral rasengan. If i was doing top 3 or 5 I would do the first hokage, madara, minato, pein and than jirayia. But minato has to be above jiraiyia and pein, pein especially seeing as how he was having trouble against naruto and a half powered, watered down eight tailed demon fox… if pein is having this much trouble with a tailed beast thats at less than half its full power while Minato literally went toe to toe with the full powered version that shows his superiority. Also Kabuto seems to be the flavor of the month and like i said…. who has he faced that even compares to pein and minatos opponents??!?!?!?!

  116. “Kabuto over Minato”: Both are fairly unseen characters, I see the strength of Edo Tensei as a lot higher than most and Kabuto is a personal favorite or mine. That said, even if you bump off Kabuto, as the list moves forward, Jiraiya is above Minato so he still doesn’t make the top three.

    “he was having trouble against naruto” and “Minato literally went toe to toe”: This is the problem with Konoha, they all gang up on one opponent to make that one opponent look weak. (credits to Kisuzatchi who is the originator of this idea.) Pein fought ALL of Konoha at his disatvantage, with the measly help of konan who took out two whole ninja… Minato on the other hand had all of Konoha fighting the fox before he faced it and in the end, he didn’t defeat it (i.e. force it to submit) but cought it with a technical move by sealing it (the kyubbi’s weakness) which he has my props for, but considering it was a mutual suicide technique, the BEST you could consider it is a tie, and at worst a loss for Minato because he died while the kyubbi was injured but still alive.

    Another of Kisuzatchi’s arguements is why I didn’t have the first Hokage up there, though he is definately in the strong but not unquestionably strong league in my mind like other Kages or say Orochimaru. The arguement goes like this… the first hokage’s only super powerfull skill is his bijju control, without any bijju in a fight against a non-bijju user, he is only about an average jounin, as seen by how when bijjuless he was defeated by the Third Hokage.

  117. If ANYONE thinks Minato is stronger than Pain, then that person is deluded

  118. “about Kisame… disregard that.” LMAO!

  119. @Kisu-

    In terms of pure power, of course not.

    But its also deluded to say that minato couldnt have defeated him through other means.

    The man was entirely feared on the battlefield to the point where orders where to flea on sight of him. He might not have the raw power Pein has but Power isnt always everything.

  120. @everyone-

    Sorry if your all sick and tired of the Old naruto vs Pein battle, but i guess its epicness will last far past its ending XD. lol

  121. @Smartass, hmmm. Pain destroyed the most powerful village, beat the man that beat Oro, Tsunade, and Jiraiya, commanded the most powerful terrorist organization in Naruto, was considered divine and made Itachi comply.

  122. @kisu-

    And? Naming stuff off doesnt help, i was just pointing out that thinking pein was invicible was delusional, no one is all powerful, there will always be someone that comes along stronger.

    Minato managed to subdue the might of the kyuubi, pein failed in that area :p.

    The sage was an exeption since he was the first nina and created ninjutsu, so there really wasnt any other person who COULD have defeated him.

  123. Plus the sage was a total Haxorxing beast, i mean who the F**k creates a moon for fun XD.

  124. @mart: I totally agree with you on this one. Consider all through high level ninja and techniques that are inherent in Konoha and that fought the kyuubi before Minato fought him (note: with gamabunta) I would posit that gamabunta help the kyuubi which minato performed the seal. And to be honest, chiyo sealed the shukaku, the previous raikage sealed the hachibi (and possibly the 2-tails) and neither of them died in the process. Pein destroyed a combined force of Hanzouand Danzou’s men without moving and we are talking about Root (i.e. The creme de la creme of Konoha) and if anyone seriously believes minato could kill Pein that’s nonsense.

  125. Everyone is forgeting the fox minato fought was at FULL STRENGTH!!! my god how hard is it to misunderstand that?!?!
    PEin went up against a half powered, not even 9-tailed stae and yet ppl just go around that fact. MInato was a legend a foe no one wanted to see on the battlefield. No one was that scared of pein. Hell a teenager took him head on without a hesitation. And people bring up the other tailed beast sealing… helooo they were the weaker versions! not to mention that the raikage had a nice little dome to spar with the bijuu. this kyuubi was a force of nature unlike any of the tailed beasts. BTW whos son defeated pein?? believe it was the fourths son. Like father like son i suppose. People just say pein because he leveled a village which to be honest alot of these ninja like naruto and sasuke could do if that was their plan. but thats not their main objective… (although sasukes changed to that. ) naruto could easily make the wind shuriken into a nuclear bomb if he relaly wanted too. And as for the kabuto talk im not even gonna respond to those ppl… ridiculous they placce him top 3 when he hasnt fought anyone to date on the level of pein.

  126. and this whole half chakra thing is also nonsense, try divide limitless chakra by 2. It is still limitless. Additionally, the kyuubi still has access to all its techniques so it is not as simple as ‘its chakra was 4, minato took away 2 so now it has 2’. Come on

  127. “No one was that scared of pein”-…….. lmao ok sure, It’s funny how we get from Shonobi vs Shonobi to Shonobi vs Kyuubi. That’s cool, that tells me no one can match up with Pein. Minato is top 5, but I don’t think he’s better than Itachi to be honest. If Itachi is better than Minato’s master (Jiraiya), I’m pretty sure he’s better than his masters student. And as far as Kabuto goes, All I have to say is “Wait & See”. No war is won without deaths. Kabuto is gonna kill Truck Loads of people. Do you really think Kishi is gonna make the good guys win every battle? Token if you think Kabuto is all hype go check his resume
    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Kabuto

    If not Kabuto, who else are they going to use Zetsu, Kisame, or Sauke. It’s a million ninjas vs 5 shinobi. So why is there so much hype around Kabuto, I’ll tell you. 1. He has Edo Tensei. 2. He’s was Orochimaru’s medic. 3. He’s not weak. 4. His intelligence is 5. 5. His Genjutsu is 4.5. 6. Handseals are 5. Now compare him with Minato lol.

  128. @madzikage-

    No what you just said was nonsense, nowhere in the manga does it say that the Kyuubi has Limitless chakra, otherwise WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF KISHI CLEARLY SAYING THAT MINATO SEALED HALF OF THE CHAKRA IN THE DEATH REAPERS SEAL?

    Duhhhh, god >_>.

    Anyways, it still has access to some of its techniques, we dont know what it can do with its full power. And to ignore that is entirely stupid.

  129. My own take on the who is the strongest / best shinobi in the Naruverse is a simple truth of life, anime / manga and video games: no matter how strong you are, somebody has your ticket, possibly someone who isn’t even on your radar (just ask Roger Federer or Peyton Manning).

    Now while I’m not a fan of Kabuto, it is easy to appreciate how dangerous this creature is. A medic nin that can fight well and is full of bad intentions… and now with a power boost. How many techniques has he seen and documented? How large is his collection of data on the various shinobi?

    Which brings me to the discussion of “subtle” jutsus for Naruto in particular: I think he needs to learn sealing techniques, particularly as a counter to amaterasu. If he wants to be hokage, he needs to balance his powerful destructive techs with ones that can protect people.

  130. @smartass

    You are totally right. There are many ways to victory, pure power is one of them, but also is intelligence. Minato was f…..g genius. Sure, Pain is stronger with his raw power, but Minato was smarter. I can’t even imagine what jutsus he would have, if he was still alive. That’s 16 years of sure progres, he was king of sealing jutsus.

    @madzi: chyio was one of the sealers, she didn’t sealed shukaku by herself, the same case was with hachibi, and they did it in totally diferent situation

  131. That kabuto link sure ha quality info on his strong opponents…… o wait it don’t. Also itachi himself said that if he and kisami fought jiryia together they would lose. Don’t believe me o check the manga when they were at the inn. As much as I love itachi he was under minato who We might add we don’t know a lot of jutsus he had but considering he knew one of the moat forbidden jutsus stands to reason he knew good ones. Also I believe it might be said the kyuubi had near….. but considering its close but not that mean it can be halved

  132. btw byuakugen invasion read the same website about minato: “he was considered to be one of the most gifted shinobi to ever live, a genius that comes once a generation if that ofter. many people during the oro invasion wished the 4th was alive to fight him ( and given the fact a old third hokage went toe to toe agains oro, the first and second hokage all at once thats saying something) also byakugen if ur so interested in data book stats look at jiryias: he is at 35.5 compared to kabutos 32. so by ur logic of the data books jiryia is higher than kaburo by a good chunk. Minato currently has no stats available but given what i said before i thikn that more than enough about a guy who created a pure chakra jutsu from scratch and mastered one of the most powerful and dangerous justsus in the reaper seal all before he was in his prime. Sounds impressive to me.

  133. and yes i still think kabuto is all hype

  134. u kno i found this interesting too…. the first hokage defeated a eternal magekyo sharigan wielding madara who controlled the nine tails fox at the time… (although i dont know exactly if this is accurate or not) if this link is true the first hokage was a absolute monster.
    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Nine-Tailed_Demon_Fox

  135. “PEin went up against a half powered, not even 9-tailed stae”: three things, 1. We don’t know what state the Beast was in when Minato fought it, and 2. As Deidara said, Bijju become much more deadly when sealed in Jinkuri, because they gain inteligence to weild their strength. 3. The Yin chakra may not fully constitute half of the battle strength of the kyubbi, it is the cunning subtle side while the Yang is the forceful direct side. (I may have these mixed up I always do) So while it may be half of the Kyubbi, it may not be usefull at all.

    ” o check the manga when they were at the inn”: Actually that statement was only in the anime. though this speaks more to Jiraiya’s style than pure power.

    “first hokage defeated a eternal magekyo sharigan wielding madara”: It’s true enough, but you have to realise that Madara was vastly different from the one today (he didn’t know his best jutsu), and beating Bijju is the specialty of the First Hokage.

    I don’t really care to argue about Kabuto, but as far as Kage level ninja he has fought: Orochimaru (no defeat, but he’s obviously trained with him/by him), Naruto (as a weakling), Kakashi, and finally, MADARA. Yes, Madara, he (Madara) decided to retreat and Kabuto accomplished his goals, so it’s a victory.

  136. y all this…. thot kishi cleared it one time that minato was the strongest….

  137. ” kishi cleared it one time that minato was the strongest….” In an interview before Jiraiya and Itachi died, Kishi said that Minato and the third hokage were tied as the strongest DEAD ninja, which excludes everyone mentioned above as stronger than Minato.

  138. But isn’t pein did? And BTW kabuto didn’t defeat madara madara was simply surprised and wanted to avoid a hassle. Love how you avoided my databook comments by the way. Good side step. Also should be mentioned that the current madara I actually a shell Of his former self as itachi himself noted

  139. Maybe Itachi wanted to scare Kisame. Remember Itachi had no purpose to hurt anyone form Konoha. And if you wanna go by stats, both Itachi and Jiraiya are tied. To me stat’s don’t matter. In pt 1 Neji stats were 21 but Naruto with the a overall stat of 14.5 beat Neji in the chunin exams??

    I never doubt Minato, I know he’s one of the best, but since he died at a very young age, and we know only a little about him idk if he’s Top 3, The 3rd Hokage did look pretty scared when Orochimaru was getting ready to resurrect Minato. To me Minato was the most interesting Hokage so yea I know he’s popular, but I have one question. Who was around to face him?? I think the only major threats at his time were Orichimaru and Madara. Idk what Akatsuki were doing when Minato was running things. When Kishi did the interview, was Pein still alive? or for that matter was Itachi still alive?

    Like I said before it’s gonna be alot of deaths. It’s 5 against a Million. I don’t expect Sasuke to do all the work, but then again Kishi might be unpredictable, I know Kabuto really didn’t have any big opponents besides Tsunade (which he won btw/ Naruto interfered), but just wait and see what happens in the war and I won’t brag about him until the war starts.

  140. @mart1
    “Yes, Madara, he (Madara) decided to retreat and Kabuto accomplished his goals, so it’s a victory.”

    i wont call that a victory…

    @Byakugan invasion… isnt naruto better than jiraya now…itachi himself sed he nd kisame was no match for jiraiya….and minato thot jiraiya and the 3rd alot of jutsu… forget it yall… minato is unique….itachi’s is cold…strong….but minato… is on anoda level… i dont think itachi can face madara…minato did…

    oh… and thr is even a lil comic strip abt him being head of akatsuki….lol…i think the luv for each and everyone’s fav character is not giving us a clear tot…

    jiraiya wanted him as a son(minato)…i tink u should give it to him and the first hokage….they r both on another level

  141. Ok thanks Mart, I knew the interveiw was before Itachi and Jiraiya’s death

  142. “Love how you avoided my databook comments”: That Minato doesn’t have any? That statstically Itachi and Jitaiya are equals? Or that an Eighteen year old is three point five points less than a sixty year old? I am a big supporter of Stats, but given that Kabuto can add the stats and abilities of any dead ninja too his own via edo tensei they don’t accurately Represent his battle capabilities.

    “But isn’t pein did?” If you mean dead, then yes, but he was not at the time Kishimoto made that statement.

    “actually a shell Of his former self”: Aren’t shells protective? And the other translation which replaces shell with shadow is even better because the five greatest ninja hold the title of Kage which means shadow…

    “i wont call that a victory…”: Madara is a ninja who only respects one thing, power, if he backed down, he must have known he would at least take massive amounts of damage and frankly he seemed scared shitless for a man who never loses his cool.

  143. @boiy
    Maybe it was a cover up. Itachi didn’t want to attack Konoha. This was stated in his bio. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Itachi_Uchiha

    “Itachi’s only reason for returning to Konoha after the death of the Third Hokage was to remind Danzō and the other two village elders that he was still alive and not to harm his younger brother. ”

    Itachi said alot of things to Sasuke that were not true, or it wasn’t the complete truth until they fought for the last time. He told Sasuke things that would give him enough anger to defeat Itachi, but we all know Itachi commited suicide. So him telling Kisame that they wouldn’t have stood a chance was probably just a way to manipulate Kisame. Uchiha’s are good at manipulating others

    Minato was the best in his generation, so was Itachi

  144. Actually, this interview was given on March 2008, AFTER Jiraiya’s and Itachi’s death. (Itachi’s death occured in ch. 393, March 13).

    “Shonen Jump: Now that Itachi seems to be dead…”

    Also, Sarutobi (who was supposed to be equal to Minato) could counter all of Konoha’s jutsu, even EMS.

    So, the (still living at this interview’s time) shinobi that are stronger than them are Pain, Madara and (one day) Sasuke and Naruto. I don’t know about Kabuto, because we have seen almost nothing from him yet.

  145. @Byakugan invasion…

    could be..itachi n minato are my best.. cos they av a common trait…. they r both geniuses.. they plan ahead… even when they know they will die…. but accordin to the manga…i think minato….of all time n all generation

  146. if itachi is h ebest of his generation doesnt that make him better than pein byakugan? or minato better than pein? magato had to fall within minatos generation or around there. Also if edo tensei is that powerful and the bodies have all the original skills and abilities does that mean the third hokage is stronger than both the first and second? And wth was the whole shell explanation mart lol. when i say shell i mean madara is not fully how he used to be. And if his ultimate jutsu is his little evade technique which konoha ninjas were able to somewhat bypass (ie th eninjas with danzo and the reason for madara ripping off his arm) that shows me madara is a little behind whre he was in his prime and now he has no nine tails to currently manipulate. And madara backed down cause he doesnt need a nuisance like kabuto holding him up http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/490/05/ . yea that sre reads as someone scared o face kabuto lol. Madara merely stated fighting kabuto would weaken himself. He by no means said he would lsoe nor should he. and mart when u say “I am a big supporter of Stats, but given that Kabuto can add the stats and abilities of any dead ninja too his own via edo tensei” than what does that say about the third hokage? the third hokage was better than both the first and second combined? Yea perfect sense…..

  147. @boiy

    Itachi & Minato are fan favirote’s, both are Intelligent, and when you think you got em beat, they always have something up their sleeves. They’re both very technical.

    @Token
    When I say generation, I mean same age or atleast 1 or 2 years apart. Pein is way older then Itachi. I think Pein might be a little older than Minato, I’m not completely sure about it, but if you read Jiraiyas bio, it would seem as if Nagato was older than Minato. Dates are never used so I’m going by the story. How in the world could Kabuto be a nuisance?? He just made a deal with Madara that’s all. I think Madara is gonna get jumped at the end by Naruto, Sasuke, & what’s her name with Pink hair oh Sakura

  148. @Byakugan invasion…

    well said…

  149. Well when the Bio says minato was a genious once in a generation they are talking about longer than a year or two. And when I say nuisance I mean madara has better things to do than to waste his stamina in a fight against kabuto

  150. BTW byagukan and mart1….. although I may disagree with you guys your opinions have def made me able to get through these horrible chapters (aside from the last one). You guys are still awesome : -)… although I may be right :-p

  151. “when i say shell”: I didn’t know what you said mattered at all in the Manga, are you secretly Kishimoto? You choose to intrepret Itachi’s words one way, while I another. I admit that he is different, but weaker? No, he just traded raw strength for skill, something much more suited to sharingan users. Also, No one, not even Danzo’s crew were able to lay a hand on Madara (Madara choose to touch them and knew he could heal himself as neccesary) and Minato himself acknowledged Madara’s formidable skill.

    “does that mean the third hokage is stronger than both the first and second?” Yes, he is as he defeated them at their full power, though the defeat is questionable given that he used a suicide technique, so he isn’t neccesarily stronger as much as equal. The First hokage to Third: “We can’t hold back…”. Also you have to consider the synergistic effects of stats, two ninja with one stat point each are worse than one ninja with two stat points, ex. Jiraiya vs. Hinata and Ino. Kishimoto even said he was the strongest dead ninja in the same interview discussed above.

    “yea that sre reads as someone scared o face kabuto lol” go back a page… http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/490/04/ Madara is just a villan, and rule #1 for cocky villans is always laugh in the face of danger. (rule number 2 is avoid fighting the “main character” until he is strong enough to defeat you lamely)

    “longer than a year or two.” even if it’s about a decade, Pein is roughly outside that compared to Minato given Jiraiya’s apperance changes, plus Pein kept himself hidden so few people knew of his genious, while Minato became famous as the Hokage.

  152. @mart-

    Actually Pein didnt keep himself hidden, he was the resistance war leader (eventually) Defeated Hanzo one of the most renowned and feared ninja in the world at the time who even the Sannin together couldnt defeat, and became known as the God of the rain village….not exactly the alibi for being unknown >_>.

  153. He was known as a God (which I think puts him above a simple geneous) but he still kept himself removed so that no living being (except akatsuki members who mostly only saw his paths) could see his jutsu.

  154. Mart one minute you talk about pure power than the next you say skill is better…….. which is it lol. I don’t like being taken in circles. Not to mention I am kinship and I would hope madara is a shell of his former selfbecausr his sparring with danzos guard was quite sad for a elite ninja. He lost a arm in what a few minutes?? Yea that skill swap instead of power sure showed lol but I’m not gonna argue anymore cause frankly it just goes in a circle and no one reaches a conclusion. So far I’ve written sooooo many things and each time you have a different reason for the answer. One minute its pein is more powerful cause of his destructive force and now madara is a beast cause he is more skillful but less powerful now. Stay with a opinion and stop flopping around

  155. Being thought of as a God an being one are different. .. a God doesn’t have troubles against a teenage ninja and some frogs lol. My last piece 🙂

  156. I value both power AND Skill, it’s not like they are mutually exclusive, the best ninja have both, I am simply saying that Pein’s power and Madara’s skill both beat Minato’s skills. As far as Madara losing an arm, that’s just another addition to his skill set. How many does he have now? Arms aren’t all that important when the grow back, HE was the one who chopped off his own arm. It’s like saying when Jiraiya took out Pein’s first three bodies he had won the fight… They just come right backto life. And while he lost an arm (voluntarily), his opnents are dead, dying, or locked in some alternate dimension…

  157. “Being thought of as a God”: Being thought of as a genious doesn’t make you one either… Just look at Neji. My point is that if Minato is a once in a generation ninja, Nagato is a once in a century ninja. It’s not like people saying things are neccesarily true, it’s just an expresion, and if I had a choice I would rather be thought of as a God than a Genious.

  158. Erm.. guys, just look at my comment, a few comments above, to help you decide the Top 3 or Top 5 or whatever you want.

  159. Pain is dumb? Minato is smarter? Where was this EVER stated? First off, Nagato LED an army to fight Hanzo’s, it takes an above-average intellect to do that. Nagato tricked Konoha’s security system by using Animal Path to summon the bodies instead of sending them all in. Nagato’s invasion didnt solely consist of him attacking Konoha, the attacks were only a decoy so the stealthier bodie could collect info, that’s pretty smart. Nagato also found a way to fight Naruto without killing him. In the words of Sousuke Aizen “It takes a lot for me to not crush ants”.

  160. “though the defeat is questionable given that he used a suicide technique” LOL He actually killed them several times in that fight but Edo Tensei kept bringing them back, so Hiruzen IS stronger than both of them

  161. @Woi Ai Ni, seriously, they should really read that comment. It saves me a lot of time and trouble defending Pain.

    Nagato is a once in a [Insert How Long the Sage of Six Paths has Been Dead Here] ninja

  162. No one says that but u kisu while minato has literally been claimed to be a ninja that cones along once a generation and if pein is the best of the best…. he should still be alive

  163. I dont think of Edo Tensei as a good representation of the real living being, and therefore not nearly a good representation of the actual person that is being imitated/resurected.

    Reasons why? ok heres a couple

    1.the souls have no motivation, theyr still dead only being forced to fight like a radio controled car, its pathetic, although powerful given the right puppeter is in control but will never be near the real thing.

    2. they have nothing to fear from pain, or death, and coupled with the fact they are nothing but puppets, they dont use their full arsenal correctly.

    3. they cant think for themselves.

    So dont judge the fu**ing kages based on some cheap ass jutsu, its way overated.

  164. @mart-

    This isnt about who’s status is better “sounding” its about saying that yes minato could have defeated pein, or rather it was definitly a possibility. He wasnt exactly a pushover, what i meant with the “godly” thing was to say he wasnt hidden.

    and also about your Ying Yang thing, the GOOD chakra Ying is in naruto, the Yang chakra EVIL, is sealed away, and kishi stated that it was POWER still, and COMPLETE HALF of the kyuubi is sealed away and your saying thats irrelevant? BS! thats like me sayings its irrelvant to YOUR strength if you only had 1 arm and 1 leg, except its a pure innerr power halved away, and to say thats irrelevant is complete crap XD.

  165. @Token, how many Rinnegans have you seen in the series? What was it that Jiraiya said about the Rinnegan? Who is Nagato a reincarnation of?

  166. @Nemo Prime Thanks for telling me,more or less, “Do really expect to believe that?” You’re right if you thought that I didn’t do much research to even claim that Naruto and the kyubi are related. I am not completely sure where the manga describdes the Kyubi’s sealing into naruto, but from what I reading in chapter 131 about Gaara and the shikaku it doesn’t seem like you have to be a jinchuriki to die from releasing its spirit.
    Blaming the nine-tails for Naruto’s family breaking up and for the hatred the Leaf village had for Naruto has always been an easy way to explain the obstacles in Naruto’s life. As a matter of fact, if Naruto was related to the Nine-tailed fox, it would probably be harder to shape his behavior from that of a born killer to that of a destined peacemaker. All of that said,Minato explained why the Fox was sealed inside of Naruto, so I hope that Kushina’s appearance might finally give Naruto a decent backstory.
    I also hope this meeting finally how explains how Naruto’s parents could die just after having a child together.If the fox didn’t kill her after childbirth,there must be another reason to explain her disappearance. They may not have even died at the same time. They could have passed away days a part from each other. If I say any more I think that I might bore myself.

  167. @kisu yea reincarnation does not mean same power level. he is a descendent of him but that doesnt mean he is the only one with it nor does it mean he is all powerful. remember the rinnengan was a legend up until pein came along so whos to say pein was the only one left with it? it vcould very well be in anothers blood line and pop up years later. So just because the rinnengan is rare and pein was reincarnate does not mean he is of the same level. If so he should be able to supress the kyuubi no problem as the sage did it against the ten tails, which has the chakra of all the tailed beats combined.

  168. ok, I will admit there is ninja stronger than Minato but Minato is tied for the strongest dead ninja along with a id prolly say young Hiruzen, Kishi said that after all and said there was a couple ninja stronger than him, so I say he is tied for the 3 spot.

    We need to think about a few things here, Minato as far as we know used the best seal , considerin the 8tails said narutos seal was better than his, that sayin if he had tried to seal the full powers it prolly been to much for the seal or even kill naruto, so him having to seal the rest in the death reper thing was just a have to thing. I think kishi should show a flash back of the battle with the fox and the whole thing with Tobi and I think that would give us a better understanding of how strong he really is, im still saying he is 3rd strongest no matter what, Jiraiya was a freakin beast and even said Minato was a genius to him so thats sayin something

  169. How could people say pein would be the nine tails. Are we talking about the same pein who said if jiraiya knew my secret I would have lost? Let’s be serious

  170. @token, in this case we were not talking about power. We were talking about how rare people like Nagato and Minato were. My point above proves Nagato easily trounces Minato’s “once in a generation” bull crap.

    @a lost shinobi. Pain saying that means nothing. Here is an example:
    “Sasuke vs random ninja. Random ninja gets his ass severely kicked

    Sasuke: “If Random Ninja knew I used lightning and wore a rubber suit, knew I used Genjutsu and brought a team of ninjas to snap him out of them, knew I use Amaterasu and brought scrolls to seal it , knew I used Susanoo and brought a chakra-absorbing ninja to absorb it, and knew I used Katon and learned some Suiton, then he would have won””

    See how ridiculous your statement is? lol

  171. @kisuzachi random ninja is not the same as a say someone like Jiraiya, Hiruzen, someone on there caliber, just sayin.

  172. I got a ? during the whole chunin exams when Oro was ressurecting the 3 hokages and failed to resurect Minato where was the 3rd body, the 3rd body that im refuring to would be the sacrifice, since he has to sacrifce 2 of his own sound ninja to bring back the 1st and 2nd, there had to be a 3rd sacrifce since he did attempt to bring a 3rd coffin, just wondering, what do you all think?

  173. @Minatofan, that’s just an example showing how dumb that point ppl make for Jiraiya is. ANYONE would lose if an opponent knows their secrets, even a god. I used Random ninja to show how weak Jiraiya was in comparison to Nagato.

  174. @Kisu
    That’s nonsense, if Nagato were a true god, why hide and use word semantics to make others believe there are more then one Rinnegan users? That “secret” comment does not refer to all his jutsu at all, it refers to the fact that there is no way anybody could have known of the extra bodies, plain and simple. Your using a double standard by down playing Naruto’s “victory” over Nagato and belittling Jiraiya’s situation as he faced Nagato. Both Nagato and Naruto had hometown advantage simple as that. Jiraiya was better than Nagato, Nagato knew it, it’s as simple as that.

  175. Spoilers are out. Pretty decent chapter I say, will definitely spark up a couple of conversations.

  176. @lost shinobi: in all honesty, ii think jiraiya could have done the exact same thing to the kyuubi that minato did.
    @kisu: thanks for the support. People seriously underestimate Pein and his beast nature. He defeated the strongest ninja Hanzou, took out root ninja, was considered a god. Went toe to toe unphased against the 8tails. Had his intention been to actually kill the 8tails and if he had to protect something important like konan or Ame he could take out the kyuubi. I mean he encased the 6tailed kyuubi in a moon and when the 8tailed kyuubi broke out, he just figured he’d make a one.
    Additionally, his sheer arsenal has never been fully exploited. He really just took out jiraiya because he could. The only time he actually was passionate about something was when (whatever the guy who became Deva pein) died and we all know what happened there. Lol

  177. another issue for discussion is that of bijuu strength. How strong is the kyuubi? Is full strength kyuubi=to shukaku therefore current strength kyuubi is only equal to 4.5tails? And therefore hachibi is only a shukaku weaker than full strength kyuubi. That’s not my opinion, but I’d like to find out what people think

  178. @madzikage-

    no he did not go toe to toe with the 8tails, he got his ass kicked by the 6tailed state, went running off to use his gravitation jutsu to escape from the 6tailed naruto state, then the 8tailes destroyed the chibaku tensei (peins most powerful move) easily by brute force. All the while this being LESS THAN HALF its full power.

    Im not downplaying Nagato’s power, he was a beast, he was stronger than jirayia, but not by alot. Jirayia did take out 4 bodies, and still fought the other bodies taking them out. He just couldnt defeat him due to the secret of the bodies power. Which makes Nagato slightly stronger, but he was a cripple so if jirayia had actually FACED Nagato he would have demolished Nagato.

    They kyuubi is out of Nagato’s league however, he would never have been able to fight it with sheer power. The Moon thing does nothing to hurt the kyuubi, making a new one wouldnt stop it. And the soul stealing thing wouldnt work either, it would end up being a tug-of-war like with naruto right now, and the kyuubi would win because nagato has all that hatred he has, the kyuubi wins hands down. And its not just brute force that makes the kyuubi dangerous, its his cunning, and his hate.

  179. @madzikage-

    A fraction of the kyuubi’s power was able to defeat the Shukaku…if you go back you can see Naruto just asking for a little bit of its power to take out Garra and Shukaku….so no its far stronger that the 4.5 tails

    Division math isnt a accurate measure of strength here >.> lol this isnt 5th grade math class XD.

  180. No let me rephrase that, a FRACTION of HALF its power was able to take out shukaku XD

    You are seriously underestmating how enourmous the amount Kyuubi possess’s.

  181. @john-

    Hey you wouldnt happen to mind sharing where you found the spoilers would you? lol

  182. okay, well this has absolutly nothing what-so-ever to do w/ the chapter or any discussion on this page, but i figured this would b as good a place as any to put it: a recent scan of Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 shows a character, that according to the person who made this video, is originally from a videogame series called Tekken. here’s the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFJeV1avqyE

  183. Lets not talk about Jiraiya, he’s weak compared to Nagato. Nobody knew each other secret abilities or techniques when they faced each other in the Chunin exams, Sasuke knew nothing about Deidara, Deidara knew nothing about Sasuke besides his sharigan, I could name many other battles with the same concept. Jiraiya is not even as good as Itachi nor Minato. So Jiraiya takes a back seat behind the greats.

    But I do give respect for Jiraiya, atleast nobody interfered in his match with Pein. Jiraiya went out like a soilder ( a very unprepared soilder ). I think Pein can defeat the Kyuubi when he’s at 100%, but it will be defeating the purpose of his mission.

    The spoiler looks good, I hope we get to see and hear a long story from Naruto’s mom, I hope we get to see a glimsp of the battle that happen 16 years ago

  184. @Nem Prime
    I think that’s a downloaded chracter you can get on the game, I’m not for sure, but I can’t wait until it comes out

  185. @ byakugan invasion, most vids on Youtube r saying pre-order bonus actually, but i’m not sure if they’re right. oh well, if it’s unlockable/pre-order, i can probably use him as, what i call, a punching-bag character (for when i’m really bored and don’t know who else to fight)

  186. @Byakugan Invasion
    Jiraiya weak? That’s a laugh. Nagato had way more knowledge of Jiraiya than Jiraiya on Nagato, Nagato did in fact use bodies of deceased ninja’s that Jiraiya once fought, no doubt his mind reading skills would get intel on Jiraiya’s skills. The way I see it Jiraiya takes a back seat to no one, Pain is known as a God in his village, but there’s a difference between being an actual God and having a God complex. It’s been said before that the Sasuke and Deidara fight has been one of the fairest fights in Naruto, not the case with Jiraiya and Nagato, intel and field advantage applied in the fight. I think Jiraiya is stronger than Nagato is a more appropriate phrase.

  187. @smartass: 5th grade maths, ey??? So what you are saying is that kyuubi’s chakra is, even now, significantly high, so Pein is still a god for battling him unphased. Thank you for agreeing with me and kisu. And who came up with this ridiculous assumption that Pein taking the kyuubi’s soul is akin to this tug-o-war battle that’s preposterous. It is more like the DDCS if you ask me,, he literally yanks out your soul-a technique he didn’t use against jiraiya mind you.
    Additionally, chakra doesn’t translate directly into ability (Naruto v shikamaru) case in point, so I would posit that the kyuubi still has access to the vast majority of its techniques but just couldn’t last in a battle as long

  188. @madzikage
    It’s not like he didn’t try, the soul stealing path rushed in to attack Jiraiya and Jiraiya knocked his eyes in with a kick. Just because someone has a technique at their disposal it does not necessarily mean it will work the way it is intended to work. Even DDCS would be meaningless if it misses its target or the target powers out of it.

  189. @Nemo Prime
    lol a punching bag, he might actually be good though, I read a comment that said it was Japan only, but if it isn’t I wouldn’t care, I hope they let us download filler chracters like the 6 tails or something
    @John
    You say Nagato knew more about Jiraiya then Jiraiya knew about him? Okay name the things Nagato knew about Jiraiya. Those bodies that he used were from a long time ago. Jiraiya could of made alot more new techniques during that time. Jiraiya does in fact take a back seat, he sits behind Itachi, Minato, Hiruzen, Kabuto, and Pain. Hack maybe even Orochimaru. I know Pein had the home advantage, Jiraiya should of came prepared and not let his guards down.

    You wonder why people put Pein vs the Kyuubi and Nobody never matches Jiraiya with the Kyuubi, because Pein has what it takes, didn’t Jiraiya almost got killed by the 3 or 4 tails lol. Jiraiya is so Old news. Well atleast Jiraiya’s better than Tsunade I guess.

  190. @ byakugan invasion, i use that term lightly when refering to fighting game characters: Bando, the guy w/ 2 humungous cannons, is one of my “punching bags” in Clash of Ninja Revolution 3. basically a punching bag character is just someone i really don’t give a crap for (filler characters, Sakura) and beat up when i don’t feel like beating up any character i like. on downloading filler characters, yeah i probably would like Utakata just to have as many Jinchurikis as possible

  191. @BI don’t forget that jiraya also was trying to put the kyuubi back in check, not subdue naruto. i think jiraya could have defeated 4 tail state if he needed to. as for jiraya taking a back seat to orochimaru no, jiraya was stronger than orochimaru but weaker than tsunade, orochimaru was stronger than tsunade and weaker than jiraya, and tsunade was stronger than jiraya and weaker than orochimaru. kishi said he set it up that way so that it was like a rock paper scissors match should they face off.

  192. @Byakugan Invasion
    He obviously knew about the oil Jiraiya could produce, I mean Jiraiya went on over 1800 missions easy enough to gather intel on the guy, Pain fought a war in an area where countries couldn’t get info on, Amegakure, it was heavily guarded and not much was known on how he fought Hanzo or who the Akatsuki leader was for that matter, Nagato just stayed hidden following Jiraiya and using the bodies of ninja that have met or fought Jiraiya. The Rinnegan remained an enigma in the ninja world up until Jiraiya faced it no info existed on it, therefore Nagato had way more info on Jiraiya than Jiraiya had on Nagato. Funny how you say Jiraiya was unprepared when there was no other way of doing things, while Nagato stupidly wasted his powers on blasting Konoha, leaving himself open to Naruto’s attack, obviously Nagato didn’t prepare for Naruto’s friendship-no-jutsu afterwords huh? Jiraiya takes a back seat to no one, its obvious that Jiraiya would do just as well, or even better than Naruto against the Kyuubi, he has alot more options jutsu wise and strength wise, and he wouldn’t stop if it were a fight to the death, he would just keep attacking it, no silly tug o war stuff or anything. Facing a 4 tailed Kyuubi and not wanting to harm it ‘s host Naruto is one thing, beating it to one inch of its life like Nagato could have done is another, Jiraiya could have done the same, but he did not want to harm his godson, its that simple, you seem to forget past arguments. Your just a Jiraiya hater dude, I don’t hate on Nagato, he is in the top 4 or 5, below Jiraiya, Hiruzen, Minato and Itachi, yet you seem to want to place Jiraiya below everyone. lol. I just call it like I see it and the way I see it, Jiraiya is better, you say he is old news and yet we are here discussing him yet again. Jiraiya FTW.

  193. Smartass: I wasn’t the one who started the title thing.,, However doesn’t you “he’s dead so he sucks” logic also apply to Minato? If he was a genious why is he dead?

    Edo Tensei is full power in my oppinion, they have mind control as motivation, which isn’t as good as say naruto style determination, but it’s still good enough, and while they don’t dodge, they also don’t need to. Even if mind control does make them less able, Kabuto knows their skills and how to use them.

  194. @Easglesfan10
    I base their strength by summons. Tsunade has a slug, Jiraiya has a Frog, and Orochimaru has a Snake. Real life the snake is more deadlier to those other summons I just mentioned. If Wo Ai Ni is correct about that interveiw when Kishi says the strongest dead shonobi are both Hiruzen & Minato (tied), and at the time of the interveiw both Itachi and Jiraiya were dead. Orochimaru took Hiruzen to his limit, but both arms were paralyzed. But who was still alive? Orochimaru. Jiraiya might have been stronger then Orochimaru, but as far as technique wise go, Orochimaru beats Jiraiya, It’s sort of like Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto might be a little stronger, but Sasuke has more talent and to be honest he has more entertaining battles in my opinion. Naruto & Jiraiya are both powerfull no doubt, but sometimes I wish Naruto can do what he did against Pein without the interference, when Jiraiya fought Pein, Jiraiya was to sloppy. He wasn’t even in full sage mode and running around trying to buy time and come up with a plan that led to his death.

    @John
    1800 missions to get intel on Pein??? I say Jiraiya was unprepared because instead of being a show off, yes I say Show Off, you never know Tsunade probabaly promised him something if he came back victorious, lol jp. But if I was Jiraiya, I would of bought atleast 4 other high ranked shonobi with me. It would of made the situation more even atleast. I’m glad you brought up the fact Nagato was unprepared when Naruto came, you mine aswell admit he wasn’t 100% either, and while you at it, Tell everyone how Naruto got saved 2 times during the fight, but I’m not expecting you to admit that, because you never admit anything. I admitted Itachi takes a backseat to Minato, and Itachi is like my second favirote character. Why won’t you admit that it’s 5 or maybe even 6 shonobi better Jiraiya? I see you might be getting upset because nobody gives Praise to Jiraiya anymore, I forgot how was his name even brought up, I think we were talking about who was older Nagato or Minato, and I mentioned Jiraiya knew Nagato before Minato, so yea Jiraiya is Old news dude sorry. You have to hate Nagato if you put Jiraiya above him. And again I don’t see nobody matching Jiraiya up with the Kyuubi. Hmmmmm I wonder why, and you say Jiraiya FTW, Lol get out of here with that. Pein rules all

  195. @Byakugan Invasion
    Such trivial opinions don’t upset me at all, your entitled to your opinions, they just help pass the time in between chapters and if you remember correctly I never said Naruto “won” fair and square against Nagato, I also never said he didn’t have help, what I find funny is that Pro-Pain people don’t realize that Nagato was in a similiar situation as was Jiraiya, and think Nagato is all powerful, yet doesn’t have the guts to face an enemy face to face, cowardly much? You might say oh its part of his strategy or its his jutsu, that doesn’t equate power when you practically have no risks aside from chakra overuse, playing with words to make people believe that they are facing him while he sits in his wheel chair. I can see this upsets you to keep arguing the point, you won’t admit anything as well, when it comes to Jiraiya’s prowess as a shinobi. So Jiraiya FTW end of story.

  196. @BI: so God Relm wasnt saved in the battle even once huh? there wasnt a body that revived other bodies just to make sure that god relm stayed around huh? wait… holy shit there was! jiraya also summonned the old toads to help him get into sage mode! if naruto wasnt prevented from using the amphibian technique and fusing with them he wouldve wooped pein’s sorry ass faster. pein’s not weak but he didnt win. as for the summons go, if snakes are so much stronger, why did manda die vs diedara when gamabunta took on shukaku and lived? o and i think he took on a little something called the kyuubi and survived too. i think both of the tailed beasts’ attacks are more powerful then diedara’s explosives sorry

  197. @Byakugan Invasion
    What I mean with the 1800 missions I meant jiraiya’s exploits are known by everyone since he completed the missions, ergo there is intel on his exploits and ability, thats what I meant with the 1800 missions, I wasn’t refering to Pain.

  198. and if we judge ninja by their summons then wouldn’t that mean that animal realm was the strongest of the peins? he summoned a hydra like dog that couldnt die. so if we judge ninja by their summons and not as a whole i guess part 1 naruto is stronger than part 2 shikamaru and part 2 kakashi, since we now judge ninja by their summons.

  199. @Eaglesfan10
    Let’s not forget if Naruto could fuse with the toads, he would be able to spam Wind Style: Rasenshuriken like nothing, he would have limitless chakra if he could fuse, since the Toads would constantly gather it for him, the way he uses it now each Naruto clone he makes can only gather Sage Chakra at a smaller scale before the original Naruto runs out of Sage Chakra, the Toads would constantly gather Sage chakra nonstop, therefore more chakra to use Rasenshuriken. Maybe after coming to terms with the Kyuubi he might just be able to fuse.

  200. looks like me and john are on the same side now

  201. I don’t see the relationship between summons and power, and I especially don’t see the “well snakes are scarier than toads in real life” arguement. I think the Toads aren’t the best summons, just the most seen. It stands to reason that if Toads can use Ninjutsu, so can others.

    I think that strength should be held on a provable unbiased individual basis, and the strongest is the one who can win in the most cases.

    If I could have one wish, it would be to see the characters all develop more jutsu so tht the gap was more obvious, but most people haven’t had enough exposure to show even their current strength (Minato, Kabuto, The Kages, ect.)

  202. @Nemo, that’s Lars Alexander. Kishimoto designed that costume for him in the most recent Tekken game (Tite Kubo and other mangakas also designed character costumes for the game), which is probably the reason he’s in it.

    @Debate, lol Im barely putting in any effort in this at all. I havent read an entire single comment yet, because you guys make the same points over and over so I can counter them without even reading them lol. I withdraw from this

  203. Oops, i meant Lars Alexandersson.

    Here’s the character designing Kishi did

  204. @John
    Did you put Jiraiya over Hiruzen,Minato,Pein, and Itachi? I’m not throwing Jiraiya under the bus, he’s definitly Top 10, just not Top 5 IMO, I admit that Jiraiya is very strong, he raised better students then Orochimaru and Tsunade, He made me laugh in pt 1 of Naruto, he’s brave, and a well liked character. You see I just admitted that, and that was straight honesty. Like Pein say “That’s all the praise I can give you”

    @Eaglesfan10
    I mean that’s just my logic, you don’t have to follow it, but makes sense to me. I think Danzo was more powerfull then people give him credit, it’s just to bad he had to go against Sasuke. Danzo summoned Baku, and if Danzo was Hiruzen’s rival growing up, I would think Danzo is somewhat near to Hiruzen strength

  205. As far as Pein getting saved against Naruto, and Naruto being held back by the kyubbi, both are rediculous, 1. Pein healed himself, his body is no different than Sasori’s puppets, it’s all still one person, one set of jutsu, and one chakra supply 2. Naruto would have lost without the Kyubbi… Pein had no problem killing all of the toads and taking out sage mode Naruto before the kyubbi came along. Without the Kyubbi healing him (and then Minato Sealing the kyubbi) Naruto would have been T.K.O.ed after Hinta got stabbed. Then again, without the Kyubbi, there would have been no reason for Pein to not kill Naruto in the first few seconds…

  206. I think Danzou was the new Kakuzu in that he was built up as really strong then killed quickly to get to the point.

    As far as Hiruzen being top 5… I say definately not in his only fight. In his hayday maybe, but we’ve never really seen that Hiruzen. I think his lack of Stanima would kill him against power ninjas like Jiraiya and Pein, it might even cost him victory against Itachi.

  207. Mart1-

    Thats ridicoulous, Pein did NOT have no problem dealing with naruto before the Kyuubi got invovled, Naruto took out every single other body BESIDES god realm, kicked alot of ass and pushed the Pein bodies to the absoulute limit.

    And saying that naruto wouldnt have won without the kyuubi is fine, il just say Nagato wouldnt have been able to deafeat Naruto without the Rinnegan

    Its a ridicoulous argument, the Kyuubi is part of naruto, just like the Rinnegan is apart of Nagato, so dont use that lame excuse, naruto beat him in the end, so dont try to act all lame with it.

  208. Nevermind about the chracters being stronger than someone by their summons, I just realized Sasuke summons birds, and Danzo could summon Baku

  209. @mart
    I’m not saying he was held back by kyuubi, it just hindered his ability to use one technique. As far as pein getting saved by other peins I don’t see how that’s rediculous because it happened with the resurrection of hungry ghost pein. Had that not happened naruto would have defeated god realm and you have to admit that much. But I don’t think naruto was sage mode when pein took him out. He used the sage chakra against the hungry ghost realm and finished it with a failed rasenshuriken.

  210. @everyone, new chapter’s out http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/31018515/1

  211. Man it really grinds my gears that those Konoha a-holes had it so fun and easy while Nagato and Yahiko were suffering in a war. No wonder Minato and Jiraiya failed, they dont understand pain.

  212. kisu lol u cant say they dont understand pain…. jiraiya was continually unable to save the one person in his life that he tried to save and that was oro. Not to mention the fact that the kyuubi killed thousands of konoha ninja under minatos watch and u have no idea what friends and families they may have lost through many wars. they could have lost parents, friends, loved ones too. a little shallow to say that when u know nothing about their childhoods. not to mention no matter what war there will always be casualties and unfortunante victims. doesnt give nagato a excuse to cause more pain when he had to deal with so much himself.

  213. not to mention jirayia was there when konoha was attacked by oro and lost friends probably than too.

  214. @Kisu
    Trolling much? 8) hahaha. Token is right, Jiraiya is the originator of understanding the pain of others, remember how he told Nagato that the only way to understand one another is to understands that persons pain, giving way to mutual understanding. He didn’t tell him to obliterate villages at a whim. Lets not forget Jiraiya is a 2 time war veteran so he definetely understands war and suffering.

  215. Not to mention Minato lost a student to the war as well. Konoha has only recently entered a time of peace seeing as hinata was kidnapped and such in naruto’s life time

  216. Them cloud ninjas don’t understand PAIN, always taking kids form different villages to study them

  217. @token, do the happy faces in Kushina’s flashback look like they know pain? Now im glad she’s dead. She should have died sooner, like in childbirth. I hate the fact that she got so many pages, she doesnt even seem strong. It goes to show, the less u know about a cool character the better.

    Konan would make a good mom though. I hope Nagato’s u-know-what still functioned and managed to knock her up

  218. @John, hmm. Nagato brought peace to a war-torn land and its Village. Where has Jiraiya brought peace to?

  219. “BESIDES god realm”: Besides the strongest body? the one that then single handedly defeated Naruto, Hinata, Fusaku, and all the other toads?

    “saying that naruto wouldnt have won without the kyuubi is fine”: I never said that the Kyubbi wasn’t part of Naruto or that it was unfair to use it, I just said that saying without the fox naruto would still have won is rediculous.

    “because it happened with the resurrection of hungry ghost pein”: first of all you mean Naraka Path. Second and who is that Path? oh right, it’s Nagato. It’s not like someone else was controling that body and jumped in to save Nagato, Nagato used essentially a medical ninjutsu ON HIMSELF.

    “But I don’t think naruto was sage mode when pein took him out” http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/18/ First he could have killed him here… (but as he said he needed Naruto alive) and before you say “but he defeated HGR, remember that Deva could have impaled him at any time and then here: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/435/015/ he is still in sage mode as he gets owned… so “Had that not happened naruto would have defeated god realm” is rediculous because he WAS in sage mode when he got owned, and it’s not like HGR is some other person, it’s just a puppet body.

    Anyway, I was just interested in the Pein vs. Kyubbi discusion and don’t care about the rest, the good thing about my top ninjas are that they are all alive, so they can still grow while Jiraiya, Pein, and Minato are all history. So I’ll let this die with this chapter discusion.

  220. @Kisu
    I don’t know Konoha was relatively peaceful to live in up till Oro’s attack, and before that Jiraiya was fighting in a Country to Country war, not no Civil War like Nagato. Plus it aint peace if one side gets completely slaughtered by their own countrymen, the Civil War in the Rain Village had barely ended. Jiraiya did his part keeping Konoha relatively safe from other threats.

  221. Slaughtering one side IS how peace is achieved. Naruto and friends slaughtered akatsuki didnt they?

  222. Mind you the whole of Akatsuki is not part of Konoha, and Akatsuki was threatening Konoha’s peace, Slaughter seems inevitable in that situation given that they are dangerous ninja who are not entirely interested in peace, at least the majority of them, while Nagato did bring “peace” to his side of the Civil War, how is that any different from Konoha gaining its peace through the same method, through slaughter. Therefore Konoha and Pain’s peace are one and the same, peace for some, slaughter and suffering for others, one and the same.

  223. @John, except Konoha doesnt know the pain they cause. Nagato is entirely aware of that pain and he chose to annihilate Hanzo and his followers to ensure peace. That IS Nagato’s peace. He planned on making the entire world live in fear of war. In our world, that is a more viable method of gaining world peace (after WW2 the whole world was afraid of war, but then it forgot the pain and other wars started) than simply hugging your opponent, or heaven forbid, giving them a book lol.

  224. Konoha is well aware of the pain they cause kisu. America is one of the most peaceful countries in the world and yet constantly at war just the same as konoha. Do you hate America? Konoha know’s pain, they’ve been decimated 3 times in 20 years, twice in less than 5. You don’t think lives were lost in that time. You don’t think lovers, mothers, brothers, sisters, children and fathers died? they did.

  225. @Eaglesfan, they only learned pain when Pain crammed it down their throats. Let’s not forget that they completely annihilated the Oto-Suna forces, so I don’t see the pain there, they won. Their first pain which you speak of was promptly taken care of by their Hokage. The third pain was the only real pain they got, but Pain spoon fed them by taking it back. Let’s just hope they remember how it felt when Pain was killing their loved ones while they were powerless to stop him and forced to watch. You cant compare their pain to the pain of the other countries. Well you could, but its a whole lot less lol

    I dont hate America, the only place I hate is Pluto. It had us fooled for decades. Goddamn planetoid.

  226. @kisu lol

  227. HEY EVERIBODY , SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT I THINK , ABOUT MADARA … READ VERY CARFEULY THE FIRST 5 PAGES OF CHAPTER 490 AND YOU WILL SE THAT TOBI IS NOT MADARA …. WE WILL DISCUS THIS TOMOROW … REMEMBER … READ VERY CARFULY !!!!!

  228. HEY EVERIBODY , SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT I THINK , ABOUT MADARA … READ VERY CARFEULY THE FIRST 5 PAGES OF CHAPTER 490 AND YOU WILL SE THAT TOBI IS NOT MADARA …. WE WILL DISCUS THIS TOMOROW … REMEMBER … READ VERY CARFULY !!!!!

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