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Predictions for the War

naruto-retro1Post Authors: Bob, mart, kisuzachi, ssj, J-sama

Hello everybody, as most have known or will realize very shortly, there is no Naruto chapter this week. It’s Golden Week in Japan and that means even the hard working folks at Weekly Shonen Jump will be taking a breather for the next few days.  But we at Shannaro!!! are just too antsy to sit around until the new chap comes out next week, so we’re going to a little group blogging to at least keep the Shannarolites entertained.

Oops, almost forgot the shameless plug for J-sama’s new One Piece blog at http://mellorine.co.cc. Make sure to go over there and bug the hell out of him so he gets off his ass and starts pumping out more posts ;p

The topic this week is a general analysis of what’s happening or going to happen in the great war Madara is preparing to unleash upon the Naruverse.  I’ve asked our authors to give their thoughts on the politics of the new alliance of villages, ie. the power struggles, loyalties and the weaknesses/strength of this fragile union. As well, I’ve asked everyone to give their inputs on what their predictions for the upcoming war, such as Madara and Kabuto’s motives and who they think Akatsuki may attack first.  As always, please chime in with your own ideas in the comments section;  I expect this to be a discussion-heavy topic and the Shannaro!!! community never disappoints :p So without further ado, let’s get the ball rolling:

mart:
“analyze the current politics of the Naruto World”
I would break it down like this: 1. Kiriagakure: obviously the weakest link in the alliance, I think this is where akatsuki will strike first, Madara will use his influence from being Mizukage to incite yet another coup. The Mizukage and a few loyal Shinobi will stay in the alliance and move to either Konoha or Kumo which are closest. I think they stand to gain the most from this war, as they had previously lost both of their Bijju before the start of the series, so the Mizukage will remain loyal but her followers won’t. 2. Sunagakure: With Gaara as Kazekage, they will pretty much always support the alliance because he is friends with Naruto and a former Bijju. He probably has the greatest grudge against Akatsuki. We’ve already seen a lot of them, so I don’t think much will be happening with them, except when they send Ninjas to the battle feild. 3. Kumoagakure: We all basically expect Kisame to take out Bee. I’m thinking the Raikage will then blame Naruto some how and keep him prisoner. 4. Konohagakure: With the Raikage being paranoid about Naruto’s saftey after Bee’s death, Madara’s next move will be to take out Konohagakure to force Naruto to return, this strategy worked for Pein, why not Naruto. 5. Iwagakure: I see Onoki openly turning traitor. He knew what Madara was like, and if he thought he could get that type of power working for him in what seemed to be a losing fight, he would turn. That’s just my opinion

“Akatsuki and Otogakure”
I believe Kabuto will turn traitor on Madara once he sees Akatsuki’s current capabilities and devises counter measures plus picks up a few strong bodies for impure summoning and maybe steals a bijju or two (He has Itachi and Nagato to control)

I think Madara will need a few new members for Akatsuki. He surely can’t seal the bijju on his own, and all he really has left is Zetsu and Sasuke once Kisame dies and he doesn’t really trust Sasuke.

I think if Madara had spies in the Hidden Cloud he wouldn’t have sent in Kisame. I think Konoha will be fine even with the reconstruction because they’ve had to do it in the recent past and probably have procedures set down. My vote for weakest village is split between Sunagakure and Kiriagakure but they no longer have anything of value. With Naruto away from Konoha there isn’t really anything there besides Sasuke’s revenge, and I think we all know Sasuke won’t go to collect that until he has prefected EMS and Naruto is back from Kumogakure. I deffinately think that Kumoagakure is the obvious first move, but that would be OBVIOUS so like I said above, while Kisame has them on the defensive in Kumo, I think Madara will try to corrupt Kirigakure.

Kisuzachi:
Kirigakure: Madara may still have some lingering followers in the village
Sunagakure: Obviously the weakest village and the one I expect to lose the most troops in this war (not counting Mifune and his Samurai)
Iwagakure: Onoki had a change of heart thanks to Gaara’s little speech so I dont see him turning traitor.
Land of Iron: They’re the most likely to desert in my mind. Those wacky samurais
The weakest village is definitely Suna. Kirigakure still has the seven….err 4 Swordsmen of the Mist

J-sama:
Akatsuki is concerned mainly with Konoha and the Cloud people. They want the capture Naruto and Bee asap. Also, let’s not forget that the Raikage is the leader of the alliance, so taking the Cloud out first would cause a lot of disturbance. The Cloud village is also the one with no Akatsuki members, which means it’s got best defense against Akatsuki. With Kisame, Bee, the Raikage and Naruto all in there, it’s sure to catch Madara’s attention first.

ssj:
“The Cloud village is also the one with no Akatsuki members” – that we know of. shit, madara’s “true” identity could be one of the highest ranking officers in the cloud village for all we know. doubt it, but it’s possible. or he could just have akatsuki members yet to be introduced lurking within their ranks. also, if sasori is capable of brainwashing ninja to infiltrate and do his dirty work, so is madara.

konoha might actually be the weakest right now. they are still in the reconstruction stage, and although pain brought back many of their shinobi, they had already been scarce on sheer numbers before his attack anyways.

Bob:
I was actually very surprised how fast the villages pulled together into the alliance after the Sasuke-a-thon during their first meeting. If everyone can remember, they were pretty much at each other’s throats prior to Akatsuki’s intervention. I seriously doubt the alliance would have been formed if Madara hadn’t made a move, so I’m still confused about his actions in that respect. As for the politics of the alliance itself, it’s undoubtedly that Kumogakure has got the top dog position right now. Konoha would have been a contender for leadership but after it’s recent devastation, Tsunade’s coma and the fiasco with Danzo, there’s no way the other countries will follow their lead. Kumo has been building up it’s military for years now without any major losses due to wars or invasion, so it has the bite to match its bark. As for the weakest link in the alliance in terms of loyalties, I would have said Iwagakure if you asked me two months ago because the Tsuchikage only seemed to be cooperating to save his own hide. But like kisu mentioned, Gaara’s speech might have really changed that old man’s wilted heart, so I think the chances of Iwagakure betraying or at least leaving the alliance is much lower now. Right now, I think Kirigakure may have the highest chance of being the backstabber village. Although I think the current Mizukage, Mei, is 100% devoted to the cause, Kirigakure has had a turbulent history and the daiymo from the Mist appeared the most reluctant to join the alliance in chapter 488. There’s also the fact that Madara had a hand in influencing Kirigakure’s leadership in the past, so who knows what kind of surprises he may have left behind.

I don’t have too much to say on predictions for Kabuto and Madara since I think it’s too early to make any calls about their true motives. Needless to say, what both of them claim to be their respective motives at the moment is only hiding a more sinister purpose. As for Akatsuki’s next move, I think it’s probably smarter for them to attack one of the weaker villages rather than try to subdue both Naruto and Killer Bee at once with the heavy guard around them; I think taking down two of the top Jinchuuriki’s will be a tough mission for even Kisame to pull off. What they need to do is to get them separated — if Akatsuki launches a feint attack on the already weakened Konoha, it might force Naruto’s group to hastily return to help, leaving KB a lone target for Kisame to pick off. I think the key to Madara succeeding in this war is to keep the alliance’s forces out of position and unbalanced; he may not have a huge army but has the mobility to attack pretty much anywhere while the villages have to be careful about where they deploy their strongest armies.

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91 Responses

  1. hmm, i really liked this post. i personally don’t see this alliance thing being to strong, as it was made out of need, and as Bob said: “they were pretty much at each other’s throats prior to Akatsuki’s intervention”, and they still were a bit during the second meeting (Onoki mocking Tsunade, Tsunade threatening Gaara, etc), so i see this as working more like how America, Britain and the Soviet Union “teamed up” to take down Germany: America and Britain pretty much let the Nazis and Commies kill each other off for a little while (of course, there was some aid, but the main thing was D-Day). so yeah, i feel there’s going to be, if not flat out betrayal, at least some of that stuff going on

  2. My opinion is that the alliance is strong but not strong enough to fight Madara. Madara has seven of the nine bijuu and he may still have lots of followers in Kirigakure and he has Sasuke, Zetsu, and Kisame, and maybe still Juugo and Suigetsu not to mention a stock of Sharingans which I’m still curious on what he plans to do with them. I also think he has a lot of spy planted in every village, If he is really Madara he has had more then enough time to plant spies in all five nations.

    I was planning on mentioning Kabuto but we still don’t know where his loyalties lie, he could be helping Madara or Konoha or just himself!

    The Alliance is a shaky alliance and I don’t think they really trust each other especially Kirigakure because Akatsuki was actually created their and the Mizukage doesn’t even trust everyone! Everyone else seems okay to be except Root, we still really don’t know what role they will play in this war either.

    There are however, some things that could tip the scale for the Alliance:
    1. Tobi’s true identity!
    2. What Kabuto is hiding!
    3. The power Itachi gave Naruto!
    4.Who’s side Kabuto is really on!
    5. Naruto learning to control the Kyuubi!

  3. I wanted a post like this for a while now, Great post. I still think Sunagakure is the weakest village, Fire balls & arrows being thrown in the air won’t do nothing. Kabuto can use Diedara again, and Madara can use Garra’s former 1 tailed bijuu against his whole entire village

    To me Konoha is probably the 2nd weakest, because they have the weakest Kage that being Tsunade. The 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Hokage all died fighting for their village, when Pain arrived Tsunade did nothing but heal the villagers who were gonna die and later on get resurrected. I was really disappointed but now Konoha has the ANBU on their side with Danzo being dead, so I can’t wait to see the Black Ops in action

    Predictions:
    Killer bee will die, and will be resurrected by Kabuto’s Edo Tensei and will attack Konoha like Kishimoto said in the interview

    Sunagakure will flea to Konoha. Kabuto & Madara will follow Suna after destroying their village. Kabuto will Toy around with Konoha until Naruto comes back before anyone dies causing Kabuto to retreat and attack another village or maybe go too Kiriagakure for reinforcement

    *DEATHS*
    Might Guy
    Kurenai
    Tsume Inuzuka (Kiba’s mom)

    and a few other people I can’t think of . I’ll rewrite it later on

  4. Mart you think KB is going to die but the only way he can die, is if he is captured and then has the 8 tails took out, or hes to powerful to capture and kisame has to kill him, therefore ruining Madars moon eye plan or w/e. so I dont really see kb dying anytime soon

  5. As always nice posts, TO ALL OF YOU! Before push comes to shove within us Narutards, I’d like to say that all the authors giving in their perspective like this feels like “Talking Naruto” with Politicians Bob, J-sama, Kisu, etc…

    Now to PUSH HAHAHA!! LOL im joking, actually I have to come halfway on everyone here. I feel like Konoha, structuraly, stands tall but its gotten to be the second worse Great Nation in terms of strength. THE worst nation is Kirigakure simply because it lacks “structure” and has only hosted more civil wars, (Kaguya Massacre, Purging of Haku’s clan, Gato, and 3 rogue swordsman, one of which are loyal, the other 3 are unknown, 2 are dead and the other a part of Akatsuki) therefor Madara would simply have to drop a pin and Kiris order will crumble right into his hands. As for Iwa, they’re betrayal unlikely and lacks serious motivation (what would they do? betray, join madara, only to realize that he holds all the cards and that they screwed themselves over…WHAT DO U PROVE BY LOOSING

  6. POSSIBLE DEATHS?

    Might Guy
    Kurenai
    Tsume Inuzuka ( Kiba’s mom )
    Kisame ( after doing alot of damage in the war )
    Tsunade 😀
    Killer bee
    Choza Akimichi ( heart attack )
    Inoichi Yamanaka
    Sai ( he might fight Sasuke near the end )
    Shikakau Nara
    alot of shonobi from each village

  7. What I also meant to add is Suna, other than Deidara, was never host to threat. People view it as weak because Gaara was taken down and the only developed ninja are Gaara’s squad, but what makes Iwa any different. Iwa has little to no developed characteristics that define them as a strong nation, in fact they lost a Great War to Konoha did they not? Suna is capable of being a strong nation with its hostile environment, un-tampered military, and sturdy gov’t. As far as I know, the strength in nations go from most powerful in this order 1) Kumo 2) Suna 3) Iwa 4) Konoha 5) Kiri! If any1 can prove me wrong…THEN TRY

  8. hmmmm @ Byakugan invasion with regards to “Killer bee will die, and will be resurrected by Kabuto’s Edo Tensei and will attack Konoha like Kishimoto said in the interview ”

    when does Kishi state this?

    i think if anything happens to killerbee you are going to see a fracture of the alliance as the raikage will go on a rampage no matter what. Dont think this will be a political play so much as we think it will be. The resurrection of the previous akatsuki means that they will all be used in battle against village after village.

    The first question is which village will go down first. Im thinking that the raikage will end up dieing in the battle wit killerbee perhaps also dying to save naruto.

  9. its going to be a blood bath on a scale never seen.

    Something similar to the battle of konoha but on a much larger scale with shinbo from different village banding together to stop the akatsuki.

  10. great posts guys but i bet kishis gona go beyond wot we expect he wont make it so simple so heres wot i think. – ok most of wot u guys said may happen… but madara wil win the war but then just as he is celerbrating with everything burning and looking like hell the Sage Of The Seven Paths will cum and madara wil piss his pants sasuke wil run to attack the Sage but his head will explode. i dnt knw why. then the Sage wil bring back minato and jariaya and buy himself sum popcorn and watch how they beat up madara then bring every1 back to life and restore everything and naruto wil run to his father and hug him he wil tel his father that his gay and love sasuke his father wil understand… every body wil live happily eva after end of naruto… kishi wil start making porn movies coz he wil broke.

  11. @kekkei genkai

    Wow. That’s a pretty trippy prediction you have there.

    @topic in general

    I feel like Tobi’s (I refuse to acknowledge he is Madara) motives must be different than what he’s saying. Ok maybe in the short term he is planning on making a war and he really means to collect all the tailed beasts, but it just seems too cheesy, like a Saturday Morning Cartoon, for the bad guy to lay his plan out like that.

    The best thing I can see is that the countries will begin to work together in a way that leaves them vulnerable and then Tobi will unleash his spies or more likely someone high up in one of the countries to start causing distrust in the alliance. I think the alliance could fracture, and the countries could even end up fighting each other.

    I feel like Kumo has the most fragile trust in everyone else and something tells me Konoha will be on the receiving end.

  12. “is if he is captured”: I think he WILL be captured since it’s inevitable.

    “only to realize that he holds all the cards and that they screwed themselves over…”: I’m saying they betray for a prominent position in Madara’s new world… That’s what they get…

    “If any1 can prove me wrong…THEN TRY”: Actually, Kisu. Did a post on this, the strength goes Kumo, Iwa, Kono, Suna, and Kiri. I can see you not knowing about Iwa, but Kono<Suna is rediculous, several Ninja from Konoha are strong enough to take out their Kage. I mean Gaara failed to defeat Deidara while SAKURA beat Deidara's sempai… I think these Kono nin could take Gaara: Naruto, Kakashi, Neji, Shino, Kurenai, Asuma, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Sasuke, and maybe Ino (with a cheap shot).

  13. @ mart, i can’t DISagree w/ u more on this: “several Ninja from Konoha are strong enough to take out their Kage. I mean Gaara failed to defeat Deidara while SAKURA beat Deidara’s sempai… I think these Kono nin could take Gaara: Naruto, Kakashi, Neji, Shino, Kurenai, Asuma, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Sasuke, and maybe Ino (with a cheap shot).” Diedara beat Gaara with several cheap shots, and Sakura was just a weapon when used against Sasori, and a weapon that only worked a couple of times. Chiyo killed Sasori, no doubt about it, anybody who denies this has the mental capabilities of a gnat larvea. also, Gaara could easily destroy: Neji, Kurenai, Asuma, and Ino, and Shino and Tsunade would have to take some pretty cheap shots at Gaara to win. also, Kakashi may not b able to outlast Gaara or overcome him quick enuf (but i wouldn’t count him out just yet). so Gaara’s way stronger than u give him credit for. but i agree that Suna’s probably the weakest, as one total bad-ass does not make an army

  14. @Greenpeas, I can’t find the interveiw i should of saved it, but someone posted the link to the video some months ago on this site. Kishi didn’t say Kabuto will bring killer bee back to life and use him to attack Konoha, but he did say Killer bee will attack Konoha. The idea of Kabuto bringing him back to life was just my theory. I mean I don’t see no other way he will attack Konoha ya know.

    I want too see more Team Samui, I wonder how strong they actually are. Gaara is the best thing Suna got. Suna is the weakest, Kiri still has their 4 of 7 Swordsman of the Mist, Ao, and their Mizukage that is possibly stronger than Tsunade. If Tobi still has a connection to Kiri he could persuade Mei to fight Tsunade idk

    I agree with Nemo Prime, Gaara is not weak at all, he is Kage for a reason, and is probably the youngest Kage in History. I wonder if Torune & Fu ever show up in the magna again, or for that matter Jugo & Suigestu

  15. From I suna I think the sand sibs and that’s it maybe baki
    I was going tho some old sj’s and I saw this pic of kankuro when he was setting to help gaara (2nd time) and he had putter coffin thing on back so he might still have 1 of his old ones most Kiley crow

  16. @Mart, actually its Kumo–>Iwa–>Konoha–>Kiri–>Suna

  17. “Gaara could easily destroy: Neji, Kurenai, Asuma, and Ino, and Shino and Tsunade”: Allow me to explain my choices. Neji: He can see the chakra in the sand and attack it like a body I.e. Where the chakra builds up. He can push the sand away with rotation and is better at Taijutsu than Lee. Kurenai: Gaara’s GREATEST weakness is his mind. As an insomniac he doesn’t get much sleep, and it’s a hell of a lot harder to think when tired. Genjutsu is probably the second best attack against Gaara. Assuma: Mainly because of his fire mist jutsu, since it lacks physical form, Gaara would have trouble defending against it and it’s got good range. Ino is much like Kurenai, attack Gaara’s mind, though in this case Gaara’s insanity might work against her. Shino: He fights in a very similar style to Gaara jutsu wise, but he can absorb Gaara’s massive chakras. Tsunade: She might be the weakest Sanin, but she’s still a sanin… Gaara’s strongest attacking form (full on shukaku) was defeated by a summon roughly the same size as Tsunade’s. We’ve seen that Gaara’s defense is quite penetrable given enough force, which Tsunade deffinately has. As far as Chiyo/Sakura defeating Sasori: I would say it’s fifty-fifty credit wise because neither could do it alone, but I see Deidara’s cheap shots as more of a means to an end, not a determining factor in his fight.

  18. Ummm mart, gaara no longer has his beast inside of him, that was te only reason he didn’t sleep, he was a forced insomniac, soo now he could have a bought a nice bed and sleep like a baby now…. And he is now at peace with himself, so I don’t think his mind is his greatest weakness.

  19. @mart1

    According to Narutohurricane.com (which takes stats from the official data books) Gaara isn’t half bad at Genjutsu (which is most likely genjutsu deflection, since I can’t see him using any offensive genjutsu).

    http://www.narutohurricane.com/character-bios/sand-gaara.shtml

    In fact, Gaara is only one bar below Sasuke in genjutsu skill:

    http://www.narutohurricane.com/character-bios/leaf-sasuke-uchiha.shtml

    Sooo Gaara would totally pwn Kurenai, especially since he wouldn’t even give her a chance to cast a genjutsu. Gaara doesn’t hesitate in battle, so I doubt he’d create an opening for it.

    Neji: Neji would have to get close to Gaara which could be difficult, also what the heck is “attacking the sand as if it was a body?” Neji is able to destroy a chakra network, such as Kidomaru’s web or a person’s chakra network, but do you seriously expect him to take out all of Gaara’s sand one by one? Gaara would make 1 million more before Neji destroys 10. If you think Neji is going to attack Gaara’s chakra network, remember the fight against Kidomaru? Neji couldn’t get through Kido’s armor, same with Gaara’s.

    Asuma: Gaara was able to guard against Amaterasu… so I highly doubt Asuma’s fire jutsu will do anything. Maybe Asuma’s wind element could cut through Gaara’s sand defense.

    Ino: She has no chance unless she can use an early opening to use her jutsu. I guess her advantage is that usually Gaara stands in one place while he fights. If he doesn’t, she’s toast.

    Shino: I just hope he has more bugs than Gaara has grains of sand… hmm probably not. I think Gaara will be drinking bug juice very soon. Squish.

    Tsunade: I agree, her strength could plow right through Gaara’s defenses. I see him simply floating up in the air though and she can’t do squat about it.

    About Deidra: Gaara totally would have won against Deidra if he wasnt’ trying to protect the village. In a way I consider how Deidra won a cheap shot… but if Shikamaru did something similar we’d call it genius.

  20. @ ripcord, thnx for posting that 4 me (altho i really don’t like the stats the databooks give, as they often clash against what is shown in the manga and anime)
    altho my main reason for saying Gaara could destroy all of the ones i mentioned he could is simply cuz Shino’s the only one who’s not totally fucking useles at one third the range Gaara could kill 10 ppl w/out trying. not to mention Gaara’s attacks have so much brute force that only Tsunade (of the ones i said Gaara could defeat) could survive a couple of good strikes.
    on Katsuya=Gamabunta=Shukaku, it really has to do w/ capabilities, Gamabunta only beat Shukaku since he was faster and had a sword, both of which Katsuya lacks. and while Gaara no longer has Shukaku-full form, he still has Sand Tsunami, which i’m willing to bet (based off of it destroying an entire forest) is enuf to at least majorly wound Katsuya, not to mention probably dry her up. of current Konoha ninjas who could beat Gaara (NOT counting Jiraiya, the Third, etc, since they’re dead) r probably just Naruto and maybe, MAYBE, Kakashi (if he could get a good lock on him)
    on Suckura vs Chiyo, Suckura made an antidote, which was useful, and she made a nice strong puppet to counter Sasori’s wooden (wait, puppets r wood, right?) puppets. but Suckura herself couldn’t b given any credit in killing Sasori, maybe making sure Chiyo survived, but Chiyo really did just about everything. and if Chiyo had some antidote already, and a puppet w/ metal fists, then Suckura would not have been needed

  21. oh, almost forgot: Gaara vs Diedara, Gaara would’ve won if they fought away from innocent ppl whom Gaara wanted to protect. altho it could also b taken like this: Diedara could’ve killed EVERYONE in Suna if it weren’t for Gaara, which either makes Suna look pathetically weak, or Gaara look awesomely strong

  22. JPUA: I like the sukura joke, but all of that aside, Sakura DID fight as a non puppet for half the fight, Though if we’re really going to get technical, Sakura pushed Sasori to exhaustion with her stamina and then HE killed himself. So I say defeat but no kill, because even with the stuff above Chiyo would lack the stanima to use a metal fisted Sakura puppet (since Sakura supplied her own chakra and chiyo just told her how to use it via the strings) and would have been unable to face Sasori’s 100 puppets without her.

    Given that Gaara has a 3.5 in Genjutsu, I’ll admit Ino is out (I was on the fence about her) though skill in the genjutsu stat doesn’t guarentee or corelate to countering it as Shino has a 2 in genjutsu but is completely immune due to his bugs. So I think Kurenai with her 5 in genjutsu (as well as stats that total .5 more than Gaara, which goes to show how strong Suna is when a weak Jounin is stronger than their Kage, even if it is statwise)

    “since he was faster and had a sword, both of which Katsuya lacks” Katsuya is a beast summon. If you remember correctly, Gamabunta being fast and having a sword WASN’T enough to beat Shukaku, as he had to transform which Katsuya can also do. I think she would actually be more suited to fighting sand attacks as she can split up or use acid to melt the sand.

    More latter…

  23. @ mart ” Sakura DID fight as a non puppet for half the fight”, and she didn’t really do that much. plus, if Chiyo had like, a titanium-fisted puppet, she wouldn’t need to add chakra to the fist to b as strong as Suckura. plus, Suckura really only fought w/ her own power, intellegence, speed, etc, against a couple of the 100 puppets Sasori summoned, and those things focus more on quantity over uality (ie, they’re pathetic but there’s so many of them it’s hard to beat them all), but since that’s really the only thing Suckura did that Chiyo couldn’t do on her own (provided w/ the right tools), u might as well have Konohamaru play Chiyo’s sidekick!
    on the Gaara thing, i’m not talking about genjutsu or stats, i’m talking about Gaara could kill any of them b4 they get close enuf to use any attacks on him.
    and on Katsuya, she’s definatly weaker than Bunta or Manda and is really best on the defensive (healing, splitting up, etc) also her Acid Slime wouldn’t do much to Gaara. and slugs die when extremly dry, and Gaara can turn a nice and wet forest into a desolate desert (which would kill nearly any gastropod easily) in a couple of seconds. and that was FOUR YEARS AGO, meaning he obviously got stronger and better at it, Katsuya wouldn’t stand a chance. note, i did not give Shukaku as an advantage to Gaara this time around
    Gaara needs to b defeated by someone with these3 things: 1) village/mountain destroying force (or alternativly the ability to kill from about half a mile away), 2) incredible cunning and abilities of deception, 3) great stamina. so ppl i think could handle Gaara: (in no specific order) ( * marks dead ppl) most Akatsuki****** members except maybe Konan and Zetsu, Naruto, Jiraiya*, the Third Hokage* (probably), Kakashi (if he can get a good shot w/ his Kamui), Raikage E, Tsuchikage Onoki, Sasuke, Danzo*, Sage of 6* probably Hanzo* and POSSIBLY Orochimaru*, Kabuto (only if Oro could do it tho) and Mizukage Mei. and if u notice, most of the ones on my list r dead

  24. oops, i meant to put a “q” in “uality”

  25. I don’t get when someone attacks a village the shinobi forgets they have special jutsus and resorts to bow and arrows, its like only the key characters use their jutsus because really i don’t see a village falling to a person (pain=6 + summons) while deidara is one person with bombs against a village and ther kage

  26. @ pig, well maybe those weren’t ninjas but ordinary ppl who have some combat training. most of Suna’s shinobi forces were put around the gates, where Yura (Sasori’s spy) was able spring a trap on them and kill most of them (w/ Diedara and Sasori killing a bunch too), so maybe they needed to add those archers to make up for dead ninjas?
    @ my second-to-most previous comment, i forgot to add that Gaara could easily destroy Hidan

  27. “slugs die when extremly dry”: He can make sand by breaking down minerals, but he can’t remove the moisture in the air which is what he would need to do. If he could hit her with salt maybe, but he would need a shit load of it given her size… I’m not saying it’s impossible (given what Crocodile from OP can do [one of my favorite characters] ) but unlikely to be a huge factor given her evasive skill.

    “i’m not talking about genjutsu or stats” other people were so if I make points that don’t apply to your arguement obviously I’m adressing someone else.

    “i’m talking about Gaara could kill any of them b4 they get close enuf to use any attacks on him”: The thing is Asuma* and Kurenai have long enough ranges that this doesn’t really apply, because they can attack before they get close enough to use their real moves. Neji has his ultimate defense to get close to Gaara with, and Shino is deceptive enough to sneak up close (though he doesn’t really need to) I would agree with all of the ones you said could beat him with Oro and Kabuto as a given, but those aren’t really surprising wins.

    I don’t really feel like defending Sakura, so back to my list.

    Asuma’s attack and Amatseru differ greatly in their delivery, so while Amatseru is the greater jutsu, Asuma’s attack could connect better because of it’s subtly.

    Shino: He probably has enough bugs to match Gaara’s sand attacks for a time, and if they are feeding off Gaara’s chakra will multiply quickly. Further more, I question if Gaara’s sand would be able to do much damage when they can just burrow through it like Deidara’s Bombs. It’s also not like he’s the type for an all out power battle, and would commit his bugs to an attack that would kill them off in great numbers.

    “him to take out all of Gaara’s sand one by one” yes, it’s not like he has to do it grain by grain, and he did eventually get through Kidomaru’s armour which is stronger than Gaara’s sand armour. ““attacking the sand as if it was a body?”” Neji can attack the chakra in the sand and make normal useless sand again.

    “I see him simply floating up in the air though and she can’t do squat about it.” It’s not uncommon to see ninja jump hundreds of feet (we’ve seen Tsunade herself jump 100 feet with ease in the sanin fight) not to mention she has Katsuyu to stand on.

    “which either makes Suna look pathetically weak, or Gaara look awesomely strong” This is where I’m leaning more towards the pathetically weak side. He’s supposedly the strongest ninja yet gets taken out by one of the weakest Akatsuki. He’s on-par or close to most Konoha jounin and as a Kage I feel he should be above that.

    “he was a forced insomniac”: I think he’s still an insomniac, he lived 16 years with fredy crugar’s cousin inside his head, he isn’t just going to start sleeping eight hours a night, defying his natural sleep schedule and fear of sleep.

    As far as Deidara vs. Gaara: Deidara didn’t use half of what he used against Sasuke (wasn’t he C4 all of the gaara fight?) so I think he still would have won, it would have just been more drawn out.

    As far as Shinobi reverting to the basics: It only takes a kunai to kill, not all are as powerfull as the plot characters who are all relatively equal but massively over powerful compared to normal shinobi, so while it seems like unimportant people have unimportant skills, they are doing the best thing considering they can fly or spam Sussano or ect.

  28. on Asuma, his Katon is only mid-range, while Gaara can fight at much longer ranges. plus, Gaara could easily create a wall or dome to block/contain it. and if all else fails (against the Katon) Gaara still has his armor of Sand that’ll prevent any of the burning ash from hurting him directly.
    on Kurenai, she needs eye contact to catch someone in a genjutsu (as opposed to Itachi), while Gaara doesn’t need eye contact to crush a human into soup.
    on Neji, his “ultimate defense” is a joke compared to Gaara’s. and if we’re gonna relate Gaara’s sand to Kidomaru’s webs: Sand Coffin>Rotation. and on Neji disrupting the chakra in the sand, Gaara could easily attack Neji by grabbing his feet (prhibiting Neji from moving fully) and attacking from all sides w/ Sand Drizzle. or Gaara could just create a tidal wave of sand which Neji would have no counter
    on Tsunade, okay, she might stand a better chance than i originally said, but i still put her as the weakest known Kage, as her main powers r super strength (useless @ long range) and med jutsu (useless if soupified). and her slug summon(s) wouldn’t b a big deal if Gaara created the giant Sand Tsuname he used on Kimmimaro
    on Shino, this is the one you’re best at defending, but only cuz Shino uses his bugs in a similar manner to Gaara’s sand. but in the end, i give it to Gaara as he can pack a much stronger punch much quicker than Shino (altho, if Shino led him into a trap, it might b different)
    on Deidara (found out i was spelling his name wrong, lol), Gaara defeated Deidara’s C3, which could destroy the majority of a village. altho, IF Deidara used C4, it might kill Gaara. and on him being “one of the weakest Akatsuki”, this may b true, but when we look at the other Akatsuki members, that’s not much of an insult: “oh, he’s the weakest in a group of nearly immortal ppl who can give nukes a run for their money”, not much of an insult

  29. “a tidal wave of sand which Neji would have no counter”: Neji has several counters for this… drill through it with rotation, ride it (he rode an actual wave attack from Kisame), use his MOUNTAIN CRUSHER to again just part the wave, ect. Neji’s rotation is a good defense, but it’s not his only one, and his taijutsu is better than Lee’s so he can evade leg attacks fairly easily, and if they hit, he can still emit chakra from his legs. His rotation needs well rotation to be 100% effective, but if he only has the legs he doesn’t need 100% to defend since it’s a monodirectional attack.

    “wouldn’t b a big deal if Gaara created the giant Sand Tsuname”: I don’t think his sand tsunami would be a big deal against Katsuyu, considering that Katsuyu is larger than it. (approximated using the size of trees relative to the attack and Katsuyu) and apparently as a slug she can absorb chakra (she absorbed Tsunade’s) so she could further rob the wave of it’s power.

    “(useless if soupified)”: Gaara’s attacks focus on breaking bones, and his attacks at any range could be over powered with Tsunade’s super strength. It doesn’t matter if he is in range when she isn’t if his attacks can’t do damage. If he sent a wall of sand her way she could smash through it with ease. The only attack Gaara might have that would be a worry is his Sand Burial (not coffin the thing he used as a last attack on Kimmimaru), but it has several conditions I don’t think he could meet (range and position, plus the sand tsunami would have to be 100% effective which it wouldn’t) and she’s also an evasive expert on top of that.

    “that’s not much of an insult” it’s not an insult so much as what I compare strength to since they fight a diverse range of characters. It’s not like there will be bad guys who lack Akatsuki level power, because they would be dead like Zabuza.

    “much stronger punch much quicker than Shino”: Like with Tsunade, what’s the point of that punch if it can’t hit Shino? Gaara fell for the trap Deidara used, and it would probably happen again.

  30. I change my mind about Asuma after thinking about it.

  31. Deidara vs Gaara. Both were at a disadvantage. Gaara was protecting Suna and Deidara didnt bring enough clay so he had to use it very sparingly.

    Gaara vs Shino. They fight very similarly. Gaara would beat Shino though. The sand isnt alive and cant be incapacitated while the bugs can. And if they do somehow manage to get to Gaara, they’d be detected instantly because he’s always wearing his sand armor.

    Gaara vs Tsunade. Gaara. If he just went up in the sky and spammed huge Sand attacks he’d win. As for the Shukaku, Gamabunta didnt stand a chance. After only a few minutes he admitted to being tired already while the Shukaku was still starting up. They never defeated it, they beat Gaara (all it takes to make the Shukaku withdraw is to wake up Gaara). Lets not forget that Kimimaro had the Shikotsumyaku and could harden his bones as much as he needed, Tsunade doesnt have that advantage and one Imperial Sand Burial would completely crush her. And no she cant punch her way out of it. The pressure was enough to contain Kimimaro and he only got out of it because he used his Cursed Seal’s level 2.

    Gaara vs Asuma. All Gaara has to do is make his orb of sand and hide inside it then spam huge jutsus at Asuma till he dies.

    Gaara vs Ino. Need I say anything?
    Ino: “Mind Transfer Jutsu!”
    Gaara move his head 3 centimeters to the left
    Ino is left unconscious. LOL

    Gaara vs Neji. Now THIS could go either way.

    Gaara vs Kurenai. Spam sand jutsus.

    “but if Shikamaru did something similar we’d call it genius.” Im glad one of you guys finally admits it. Shikamru cheap shot Hidan.

    Also, Deidara is not the weakest Akatsuki member. His stat total is 33 plus its not like he was beaten in a fair fight. The weakest Akatsuki members are Hidan, Konan and Zetsu. But Hidan is probably the most deadly. Plus Pain said the loss of Deidara is a blow to their organization.

  32. “not like he was beaten in a fair fight”: I fail to see what was so unfair about it… Sasuke may have had Oro. dormant in him but he didn’t come out and fight. On the other hand Deidara had trained himself specifically to fight Sharingan users.

    “they’d be detected instantly” I think the sand armour wouldn’t do a thing honestly. if they can bury into his sphere they can bury into the sheild. just like Deidara, Shino could infect his sand completely with bugs.

    “one Imperial Sand Burial”: I adressed this above, Gaara has no way of hitting Tsunade with this attack, because unlike Kimmimaru, Tsunade can dodge even Gaara’s strongest sand attacks. Imperial sand burial is a finisher, but it requires a set-up strike to bury the opponent in sand before it can be used which Tsunade could avoid. Also I don’t know if he can use it when he isn’t in contact with the ground since you said “If he just went up in the sky”

    “Gaara vs Kurenai. Spam sand jutsus.”: my rebutal would be that Kurenai spams Genjutsus…

  33. “I think the sand armour wouldn’t do a thing honestly.” LOL. The sand armor saved Gaara from dying from Deidara’s exploding insects, saved Gaara from dying from Lee’s Lotus moves and kept the Chidori from going in too deep. As if living, weak, normal insects can get through it.

    “I fail to see what was so unfair about it…”- Sasuke had Orochimaru’s chakra and jutsus, a Cursed Mark, the elemental advantage, and the mental advantage (because Deidara has an inferiority complex when it comes to the Sharingan).

    “I adressed this above, Gaara has no way of hitting Tsunade with this attack, because unlike Kimmimaru, Tsunade can dodge even Gaara’s strongest sand attacks” Exactly HOW can she dodge an omnidirectional Tsunami that managed to submerge an entire forest in sand? Punching through it? lol

    “my rebutal would be that Kurenai spams Genjutsus…” We know that Kurenai isnt too perceptive (from the little scuffle with Itachi) and it takes concentration to use Genjutsu, so how can she be dodging Gaara AND concentrating on Genjutsu at the same time. Plus Gaara has above average skills in gejutsu so he should be able to escape her normal genjutsus (unless she has a hidden Sharingan somewhere)

  34. “As if living, weak, normal insects can get through it.”: the Bikachu steal chakra, the sand armour is fed directly by Gaara’s chakra, stealing chakra from it would be no different than stealing chakra from him.

    ” a Cursed Mark, the elemental advantage, and the mental advantage”: How are any of these unfair? The mental advantage is one of Deidara’s weaknesses, the element is one of Sasuke’s strengths. the curse mark is just a jutsu that drains and stores chakra cheap as it may be.

  35. “HOW can she dodge an omnidirectional Tsunami that managed to submerge an entire forest in sand? Punching through it? lol” Katsuyu, the same way Naruto dodged it. Or yes punching a hole in the wall of sand or jumping out of a sand pit.

    “Kurenai isnt too perceptive”: Actually she has a 4 for inteligence, her weak points are physical stength and stanima. I think she is fully capable of dodging and using genjutsu, since that would be a fairly normal part of battle. In that “little scuffel” Itachi said he was impressed with Kurenai and he’s pretty much the strongest Genjutsu user ever.

  36. @Mart, “her weak points are physical stength and stanima. I think she is fully capable of dodging ” Doesnt dodging take stamina? Going by Lee, Deidara, Kimimaro and Sasuke’s performances against Gaara, you HAVE TO HAVE A SHITLOAD of Stamina to face him.

    “Katsuyu, the same way Naruto dodged it.” Naruto dodged a mere sand coating, aka Sand Coffin. He summoned Gamabunta to break out of the sand Coffin before Gaara could crush him. Also, Katsuyu is NOT large enough to not be covered by the Sand Tsunami. ONly her head would be sticking out, everything else can be crushed due to the pressure, disassembling would only decrease her already weak resistance to the pressure, especially because slugs lack bones. At that point, Tsunade would be outclassed because Gaara would have all that sand to control.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/135/02/ (Gamabunta’s size compared to the trees)
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/170/02/ (Katsuyu in comparison to Gamabunta)
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/215/18/ (Sand Tsunami in comparison to the trees)
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/134/12/ (Naruto in the Sand coffin)

    “How are any of these unfair?” They aren’t unfair. But these many advantages piled unto each other is something no Akatsuki member had to deal with except Pain and Deidara. This is why some would consider Deidara to be weak, and its why many consider Pain to be weaker than Naruto, and in both cases this is wrong.

    (I’ll end the little Bleach debate as you have a tournament in mind)

  37. Why do viewers in general underestimate Tsunade so much? You know that she has 35 in general, the same with Oro, and Jiraiya had 35.5. So, why do they think she is so useless and “the worst Kage”? Apart from her obvious medical skills and strength, she is fast and pretty smart, so to make strategies in a battle. Her summoning is multiply useful and her stamina and chakra supply are amazing (in the Sannin battle, although she had released her Creation Rebirth, she continued to fight for about 15 minutes with incredible speed and strength).

    Moreover, I think Tsunade deserved a better fight with Pain, they only talked and soon after she fell unconscious, leaving Naruto to save her. This shows her as a really weak one, being able only to heal people, which is not true, she could stand a chance against Pain (I didn’t say win him, just a chance.)

    However, I’m sure you know that the story in this part was changed. Kishi originally wanted to “give Tsunade the honor to give the first punch to Yahiko” (maybe the strongest Pain) and not make Naruto return, but his editors convinced him to change this, as “Tsunade’s punch is too hard” and they wanted a 100% Naruto facing a 100% Pain “to begin the battle from zero, to make the battle fair. I made all the Pain in their perfect form”. (Oh, this also answers all the debates about whether Naruto or Pain was more tired when they started their fight. They were just equal.) So, she was not as useless as we were left to think. *You can see this interview on YouTube.*

    I know that the final script of a story is what counts, not the first thoughts, and of course I can’t change your opinion (note that I’m not a fan of her, just a normal liking), but I just want to be fair with everyone.

  38. “100% Naruto facing a 100% Pain” I’ve seen this interview and all I have to say about that statements is “ROFLMAO”. Its ridiculous to think that Pain was at 100% against Naruto when Deva Path couldn’t even fight. It is a semblance of 100%, but is not 100%

  39. Ha, I was sure about this! Oh come on, don’t start again (others will follow too)! I didn’t mention this fact in order to stick on this side note. They were equal (50-50, 100-100 or 0-0, who knows, just equal.) Yes, I know that I can’t convince you, but I was talking about Tsunade, not Naruto. She could have done SOMETHING, I don’t know what, to Pain, but she was not given this chance.

  40. someone approve my comment already -_-‘

  41. Please don’t bring back the 100% Naruto vs 100% Pain…I can’t take those arguments again.

  42. @Wo Ai Ni
    I agree with you, Tsunade is severely underestimated, according to many she is the strongest Kunoichi in existence and not only that she is easily one of the strongest Ninja Konoha has ever produced, she stands equal with the other Kages, could she beat Pain, odds are not likely, but the same could be said about the other Kages, none of them would stand a chance against Nagato either, and like the rest she wouldn’t go down without a fight, according to Jiraiya, her skills in Hand to Hand combat are unmatched as well as her skills with medical ninjutsu, her slight decline in fighting power can easily be attributed to the many years without training for one reason or another. The scenario you described makes perfect sense, Kishi didn’t one anyone capable of tiring Pain out even further to face him before Naruto, Kakashi and the rest of the jonins don’t even count they are outclassed by far, Tsunade expended too much chakra and as you said that made her look weak, but consider this she divided her chakra into hundreds of people in order to ensure their survival, that’s a very impressive amount of chakra and considering her stats not many Akatsuki stand a chance against her save for Itachi, Madara and Nagato. So I commend you for your observation. Peaceout.

  43. I think kabuto will annihilate Kumogakure and kill Raikage. why not? Konoha, which was the strongest village out of 5, is already a hole in the ground. so why not trash 2nd strongest kumogakure?

  44. @Wo Ai Ni

    i agree with your comment

  45. “you HAVE TO HAVE A SHITLOAD of Stamina to face him.”: Not really. You have to have stanima and speed to get inside his physical guards because of how fast they are, but not to get to genjutsu range.

    “ONly her head would be sticking out, everything else can be crushed due to the pressure, disassembling would only decrease her already weak resistance to the pressure, especially because slugs lack bones.” Katsuyu would not be crushed because as long as some part of her is sticking out she would be able to redirect the presure into pushing her out of the sand (ex. like water in a paper cup, then crushing the cup). furethermore, i would say she has EXCELLENT resistance to pressure BECAUSE of her lack of bones. Just look at how well she took on Pein’s attacks. If her body is put under pressure it will act like hydrolics and just divert that pressure.

  46. @walmart1

    I don’t see how Katsuyu would be able to regroup and do anything to Gaara… so far all we’ve seen is that Katsuyu is a defensive type, not offensive.

  47. “all we’ve seen is that Katsuyu is a defensive type, not offensive”: wasn’t that my point? that Katsuyu would enable Tsunade to survive Gaara’s attacks? Tsunade has her own offensive capabilities. HOWEVER, Katsuyu does have acid that can melt through rock, so she could probably also melt the sand/Gaara.

  48. “Not really. You have to have stanima and speed” That’s Guy, Lee and Neji’s taijutsu, not Tsunade’s.

    “If her body is put under pressure it will act like hydrolics and just divert that pressure.” have you ever stepped on a slug before? lol Besides, pressure is the force per unit area applied, so her body would be under complete pressure as opposed to a blunt force attack like the Shinra Tensei. I’d also like to add that only Katsuyu’s clones on the very outskirts of Konoha survived the blast, which shows she definitely can be destroyed.

    Also, if you would look at the links I posted in my above comment you’ll see that most of her would be crushed. Now I’d like you to explain exactly HOW Katsuyu can protect Tsunade for the infinite amount of time you are describing. (In a desert like that it would take a miracle within a miracle within a miracle for Tsunade to hit Gaara, and she doesnt have the speed to do so in the first place).

    I’d also like to add that I think Gaara is the weakest current Kage, but his abilities allow him to beat ninjas like Tsunade [has Gaara ever lost to a Taijutsu (user other than Kimimaro because in the last moments he used a ninjutsu)?].

    @Anyone, I dont think Tsunade is weak, I just think she’s the weakest Sanin, and 3rd weakest Hokage (behind the Nidaime and Shodaime). Besides, being the strongest Kunoichi really isnt a compliment with ninjas like Tenten, Ino, Sakura and Konan in the group lol. Also, I dont see her being able to beat ANY member of Akatsuki apart from Zetsu and (MAYBE) Hidan. (I hope i didnt just start another Tsunade debate).

  49. With regard to Tsunade:
    1. Just as Jiraiya uses many different toads, with gamabunta as his preferred summon, it follows that Tsunade could summon different slugs with Katsuya as her preference.
    2. Just as Kabuto survived Rasengan by condensing chakra into his stomach, so too could Tsunade who is the most powerful medical nin, could probably do the same thing to save herself from any bone crushing jutsu.
    Konoha has so many secret clans that I am sure they will still prove to be extremely formidible in the war, possibly even the most powerful village. Pein (the ultimate ninja ever) happened to attack them with their pants down, but on a calculted strategy, they would still be the most powerful village in my opinion, with the most powerful Kage, lets not underestimate medical ninjutsu.

  50. @madzikage

    Tsunade’s jutsus are more of a “super powerful one time only” kind of attack, but Gaara is more relentless, and he can be just as powerful. Back during the chuunin exams, Might Guy was able to simply deflect Gaara’s sand to save Lee, but that was a long time ago.

    Now, Gaara has much more control and much more sand at his disposal. He’s not a stupid fighter, so he’d definitely keep Tsunade at a distance, or anyone he’s fighting that isn’t fast enough. Tsunade definitely isn’t, she almost got pwned by Demon Realm.

  51. “have you ever stepped on a slug before?” Have you ever steped on a slug the size of a human before? Katsuyu has the ability to reform her body at will in the shape she chooses, NONE of her would be crushed by Gaara’s sand because she would always have an escape route.

    “only Katsuyu’s clones” actually according to narupedia the katsuyu clone on Naruto survived not only 8-tails chakra but chibaku tensei to boot. And the ones onthe outskirts weren’t the only ones to survive, just the only ones not burried in rubble.

    “not Tsunade’s.”: Your getting mixed up, the speed stanima comment was about Kurenai, and I do think that’s Tsunade’s taijutsu, while slower, is more powerful, though not that slow as she can enhance the speed of her legs via chakra control.

    I think Tsunade could beat the following Akatsuki: Hidan, Kakuzu, Konan, Zetsu, Kisame, Deidara, Sasori and Orochimaru. She would lose to Itachi, Pein, Madara, and Kabuto without a doubt.

  52. now for my prediction this post seems to have died down, perfect timing: I think a number of factor need to be considered in the upcoming war. Firstly, scenes from the previous wars show us that the countries prefer to fight with weapons on the battlefield and only unleash their true might one smaller e.g. One on one battles. additionally, kages are last line of defense. this however looks set to be the first war where even kages will be actively involved (just because Kishi knows a battle with random ninjas would be boring). With this in mind Konoha is the strongest followed by kumo, simply based on the ninja at their disposal followed by kiri (they seem to breed badasses) then suna and/or iwa can’t rank these two but I’m leaning towards suna being the weaker link. From a betrayal stand point I can see the kages remaining committed but ninja in their villages betraying them…. With this in mind I see suna and kiri as weak links.

  53. @Mart, Deidara, Kakuzu, SASORI, Orochimaru and Kisame would lose to Tsunade? lmao Do u care to explain that ludicrous statement?

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/429/16-17/ I see no Katsuyus in the epicenter, so my statement that only the ones on the outskirts survived still proves true.

    “Have you ever steped on a slug the size of a human before?” If I could control sand, I would make a giant boot and squash it. What’s the difference between the giant boot and those huge Shukaku-like hands Gaara is known to form from sand?

    “Your getting mixed up, the speed stanima comment was about Kurenai,” Sorry my bad. But my statement about Tsunade not possessing the level of speed to hit Gaara still holds true.

  54. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/11/ Actually there is a katsuyu inside the creator in this pic. You can see the outskirts of town far in the background. If you want to get technical, anyone in the exact epicenter would have been pushed outward so is it surprising that there isn’t anyone there, and therefore no one to protect? The picture you provided just doesn’t show enough detail to see the slugs acurately in their mini-katsuyu form. And if the Mini’s can survive attacks of that magnitude, the big version can withstand a lot more.

    “Shukaku-like hands Gaara” The size… Shukaku’s hands were slightly bigger than Gamabunta’s, the ones Gaara himself makes are even smaller (though longer) In ratio to a human foot vs. normal slug that’s not even close (I would say a slug is an inch where as the shoe I wear is 10 inches). On top of that, Katsuyu can divide to avoid the attack.

    “Tsunade not possessing the level of speed”: She doesn’t really need more than the 3.5 she has. Lee and Sasuke couldn’t take on Gaara’s sand defense head on (lee only had a 3.5 in Taijutsu, a 3 in strength, and a 4 in speed when he took on Gaara and Sasuke was worse.) they NEEDED to beat it with speed because they couldn’t get through it. Even Deidara only has a full point above Tsunade’s speed and she has other qualities Deidara lacked. Obviously Gaara has grown since fighting the first two, but not enough considering Tsunade’s other skills. She is an EXPERT at evasion, so even if she doesn’t have the exact level of speed Lee and Deidara have, she can dodge much better.

    I’ll explain the Akatsuki fights in a different post.

  55. “Deidara, Kakuzu, SASORI, Orochimaru and Kisame”

    Deidara: Easy: Katsuyu can melt through his bombs and absorb the blows (Manda took Deidara’s strongest attack, though Katsuyu could probably heal herself to avoid dying). Tsunade can emit small bursts of electricity for the smaller bombs as well. Tsunade can heal herself. She’s just a bad match for Deidara.

    Kakuzu: She’s a Sanin, she’s a survival type ninja. She could fight a prolonged battle with Kakuzu. Not to mention her Medical ninjutsu would give her an edge dealing with Earth Grudge Fear (she would know to take out his head instead of all the hearts, of poison his body). If all else fails, She could melt him with Katsuyu’s acid attack, which has a large range and can cut through rock.

    SASORI: Sakura can do it… Before we get into the “she had help debate” remember that unlike Sakura, Tsunade isn’t useless, her stat boost makes up for all the help Chiyo gave Sakura. If you want to say “Sasori killed himself” that’s fine too, but he was on his last legs so to speak, even if he continued fighting, he would have died (but probably taken Chiyo and Sakura with him completely).

    Orochimaru: Statistically they are equal, I don’t really have an arguement for this one, as much as the fact that Kishimoto designed the Sanin after Japanese Rock-Paper-Scissors. In his Analogy Jiraiya would be Scissors, Tsunade Paper, and Oro. Rock. Now if you’re like me you probably always wondered how Paper beat Rock anyway, but it still does.

    Kisame: Tsunade is almost as bad an opponent for Kisame as Gai except she’s stronger than Gai. She uses mainly Taijutsu, keeps most of her chakra sealed (so Kisame can’t steal it), and has medical ninjutsu and her lightning attack for surplus. On top of that she has Katsuyu. Water seems like an advantageous environment for Katsuyu considering she can absorb some of it to grow, and probably float.

  56. @walmart1

    Wow, you are really overestimating the durability of a summons. I mean, Gamabunta took a full on shinra tensei and he was out, and I admit that Katsuyu survived it, but my guess was that it was in a big part because Tsunade gave Katsuyu most of her chakra from her seal right as shinra tensei was used. Without it, I would bet Katsuyu would have had to retreat.

    Katsuyu is not offensive, except for its acid spit, but honestly I don’t think Gaara would have a problem making more sand. He could just rope-a-dope Tsunade until she ran out of chakra, because I’m pretty sure she’d run out first.

    About Tsunade vs Kakuzu, Kakashi only barely survived because he is so good at using many elements. I don’t see Tsunade being able to accomplish anything like that.

    As to whether Kisame can steal Tsunade’s chakra or not… he can steal ANY chakra anyone tries to generate to use in a jutsu. I guess Tsunade’s advantage is that she rapidly uses the chakra, but KB was pretty fast and Samehada didn’t take very long at all to steal a LOT of bijuu chakra.

  57. “because I’m pretty sure she’d run out first.”: Is that a joke??? She’s a SANIN!!! The reason they are called that is because they all have MASSIVE stanima.

    “you are really overestimating the durability of a summons”: Katsuyu’s specialty IS durability. Sure Tsunade gave her a lot of chakra, but that chakra went DIRECTLY to the ninja of Konoha. She had to supply the chakra for the split into about a million clones and the healing of all the almost dead Shinobi. PLUS she could give Katsuyu chakra as neccesary, though not to the point of a coma.

    Kakashi only barely survived because he is so good at using many elements. 1. Kakashi only used one element. 2. there is a reason Tsunade is hokage over him 3. She is much stronger at evading than him 4. She can fight for more than five minutes unlike Kakashi who would probably be in a coma after any serious fight without anyone backing him up.

    “he can steal ANY chakra”: Not really. There is a rate at which he can steal chakra and he does better against Jinkuri (because they release massive amounts of chakra into the environment. Tsunade uses all of her chakra internally (to strengthen her attacks) so it would be hard if not imposible to steal. She also doesn’t attack with chakra directly, she uses her fists. Even if Kisame were to rob her of her chakra, if she built up momentum before hand she would still be as effective since to stop that he would have to steal chakra from her feet at a distance.

  58. @walmart1

    Actually Kakashi used both lightning and water in that fight. He has also used doton in battles too, and the data books list that he can use fire though we’ve never seen him use it.

    About Kisame, we’ve seen that he can steal chakra even while being struck, so I don’t see that as a problem for him. Plus, KB has described himself as incredibly fast, only Sasuke & the Raikage have kept up with him so far, Tsunade isn’t that fast.

  59. I don’t see where your going with killer bee’s speed… Yeah he’s fast, but what does that have to do with stealing chakra? Tsunade’s and Bee’s fighting styles are completely different. Also he’s only a point above Tsunade statistically (if you consider him equal to sasuke and at most 1.5 if you think he is faster) As for Kisame stealing chakra while being attacked, 1. Again, the attack was outside the body/ninjutsu 2. It wasn’t all absorbed, which is at conflict with him absorbing massive amounts of bijju chakra, thus showing the more controled the chakra is, the harder it is to steal. We’ve never seen him steal a non-jinkuri’s chakra despite his opportunities against team gai and Jiraiya.

    When did Kakashi use water against Kakuzu? And so he used two elements, is that supposed to be a big deal? Most jounin have at least two elements, also I never said he didn’t have his doton and Karon, just that he didn’t use them against Kakuzu. And as with Killer Bee, Kakashi and Tsunade fght completely differently.

  60. “Actually there is a katsuyu inside the creator in this pic.” That pic is long after the huge Shinra Tensei and that would give them time to crawl into the crater. BUT, no Katsuyu is there. Sakura is in the outskirts, and if that particular Katsuyu is with her, then common sense denotes the Katsuyu is in the outskirts as well.

    “The size… Shukaku’s hands were slightly bigger than Gamabunta’s, the ones Gaara himself makes are even smaller”- LMAO! Smaller?
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/248/11/ – The hands formed from that huge plume of sand are what I am referring to. When I say Shukaku-like hands, I’m not saying the hands are the size of the Shukaku’s, what I’m saying is they take the SHAPE of the Shukaku’s hands. And those hands he formed against Deidara were FAR BIGGER THAN ANY SUMMON THUS FAR.

    “She is an EXPERT at evasion” Kimimaro was too and an expert at Taijutsu, but not even HE could evade an entire desert (considering your STANDING on the sand). You’re giving Tsunade powers she does not have.

    “Tsunade can emit small bursts of electricity for the smaller bombs as well. Tsunade can heal herself. She’s just a bad match for Deidara.” NO. Earth jutsus are weak against lightning NATURE chakra. We dont know if actual lightning weakens Earth jutsus. We dont even know Tsunade’s nature type. It was never called a Raiton, it was said she converted her chakra to electricity (Deidara doesnt have Katon despite his bombs creating huge fiery explosions).

    “Katsuyu can melt through his bombs and absorb the blows” Absorbing direct impacts is one thing, absorbing an explosion is another. IF you survive the force, the heat of the explosion will do you in. And where’d you get the melt thing from? Melting a bomb is the absolute worst thing to even consider. Ignoring that, Deidara’s most powerful bomb was his C3 that he used on Suna. His most deadly bomb was the one he used on Sasuke, the C4, which attacks at the cellular level. Tsunade said medical jutsu cant cure that type of damage, so she’s a goner against Deidara. The bomb used on Sasugay was an adrenaline-fueled fail because Sasuke looked down on him (even though Deidara clearly had the win because his bombs could move and he still had chakra) and he couldnt move at the time. Tsunade wouldnt be so lucky because she doesnt have a Sharingan to make Deidara snap like that.

    “Not to mention her Medical ninjutsu would give her an edge dealing with Earth Grudge Fear” Kakuzu’s body structure is different from normal people, so her medical expertise would be useless against him. Also, we know his hearts have to be neutralized for him to die, to assume poison could do him in is ridiculous. Also, how would she poison him if he uses his Earth spear and make his body as hard a rock?

    “If all else fails, She could melt him with Katsuyu’s acid attack, which has a large range and can cut through rock.” And Kakuzu having 92 years of experience would just stand still and let the acid melt him? If the acid was as fast as the Raikage maybe I’d accept that, but even Manda dodged it, and he’s WAY bigger than Kakuzu (thus an easier target).

    “Sakura can do it” First of all. Sakura had time to study Sasori’s poison and make a counter to it, Tsunade wouldnt have such a luxury. Sasori poisoned Sakura on several occasions but the antidote she made BEFORE the battle (after painstakingly analyzing the poison) is what saved her and Chiyo.

    “he would have died” Hmm, Kimimaro would have died against Gaara either way, and Itachi would have died against Sasuke either way. See how ridiculous that argument is? Sasori is a puppet. He doesnt get tired and he still had his weapons to use, it was a miracle that he had a change of heart at the last moment.

    “In his Analogy Jiraiya would be Scissors, Tsunade Paper, and Oro.” If Kishi said so then its “Word of God”, so there’s no going around it, Tsunade wins.

    “She uses mainly Taijutsu, keeps most of her chakra sealed (so Kisame can’t steal it)” Her taijutsu relies on releasing chakra at the moment of impact, Samehada can still munch on it. As for Katsuyu, Kisame’s shark bombs can blow her up (ur making Katsuyu sound like she’s invincible lol). Plus her division is a jutsu, which means it takes chakra, which means Samehada can absorb her chakra so she wont be able to do that jutsu.

    Also, slugs PARTIALLY absorbs water through their skin, so it wont be too much of a problem considering Kisame can make infinite amounts of water and we dont know if Katsuyu is a land slug or a sea one. But in general, “slug” usually refers to the lad kind, and when people are talking about the sea kind, they say “sea-slugs”. Also he can just drown Tsunade and Katsuyu (if she’s a terrestrial slug).

  61. I want to talk about Kakashi for a sec and ask why isnt he more powerful, his dad was suppostly a stronger shinobi than even the sanin, and Kakashi cant even compare to the sanin, specially Jiraiya and Oro, so why is he so weak when his father was suppostly one of the baddest guys, any one else think this is odd?

  62. @Minatofan, Kakashi isnt weak per se. Its just the jutsus he use take more chakra than he can spam like Sasuke and Naruto can. He HAS improved since Part 1 of the series though, he could only use 4 Raikiris, but in his fight with Kakuzu he spammed it (he used up to 6 without being dog tired). All Kakashi needs to be an epic ninja is a larger chakra supply.

  63. @minatofan: just because ur old man is hardcore doesn’t mean you won’t be a soft cake. And anyway, kakashi us still considered one of the most powerful ninja in Konoha (the whole infamous copy-ninja kakashi title).
    @ripcord: I’m amazed at just how much tsunade is underestimated. Just consider all the badass ninja that make up Konoha and she is their leader; the last line of defense. She may of said that medical ninjutsu can’t heal at a cellular level but that is exactly what she does to stay young, meaning that poisons, explosions, etc would have a hard time bringing her down.

    Additionally she obviously knows a lot of large scale jutsu we have yet to see like her sannin brethren and being a medical ninja, she knows about poisons, and chakra networks that would make her even more badass.

    Finally, she is considered the slug queen and not katsuya’s queen which as I previously said implies she has dominion over the slug realm, giving her more influence over slugS than jiraiya had over toads or oro over snakes. And it also implies the existence of a realm of slugs and if the land of toads is anything to go by, then there are many more summons she can call upon to augment her abilities she just PREFERS katsuya.

  64. @madzi, did u know that possibly maybe Sasori can summon scorpions, because he has scorpion marks on his puppets. And did u know that Zetsu can summon a huge venus fly trap? Oh, Itachi can summon weasels since his name means weasel lol. That’s basically what you’re saying. Until Tsunade demostrates this “badassery” im not buying it. Making guesses on what Oro, Minato, Sarutobi, Pain and Jiraiya could do is acceptable because they’re known badasseslol

  65. @kisu: wanton assumptions and calculated inferences are mutually exclusive. But since we are dealing with facts she is a. A feared sannin b. The only living one c. Hokage of a village with a lot of powerful clans and ninja (unlike Gaara who doesn’t have any competition). I’m not a member of team tsunade mind you, I actually like Gaara a he of a lot more, but the reality of the matter is that tsunade is, on a balance of probability, stronger than bijuu-less Gaara.

  66. @madzi, im not a member of either Gaara’s or Tsunade’s camps. I’ve always bashed Gaara and Suna for being weak, but its just that Tsunade hasnt shown ANY moves that would let her beat Gaara, or any current Kage (except maybe Onoki). Raikage would definitely pond her to nothingness, no questions asked, and this is not up for discussion since its so glaringly true.

  67. “Sakura is in the outskirts, and if that particular Katsuyu is with her“: You can SEE the outskirts (I am taking outskirts to mean the area of konoha unaffected by Shinrei Tensei or do you mean something different?) in the background far away. The slug was WITH Sakura IN the creator UNDER the rubble (that picture was of them getting out of the rubble). I fail to see how your comment that there weren’t any in the epicenter is even RELIVENT considering that there was no picture of the slugs in the epicenter let alone of the slugs in the epicenter dying/unsummoning due to the attack.

    “FAR BIGGER THAN ANY SUMMON THUS FAR.”: Not really. That wasn’t an attack, it was Gaara summoning all of the sand available to him IF he were to pour all that sand in to an attack 1. it would use up all of his chakra moving it around as his opponent dodged and 2. it would leave him wide open to attack, his actual attacks shown here http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/248/14/ are much smaller. Also that technique was used in the ACTUAL desert (and Gaara’s hometown) so he probably couldn’t use it in a neutral battle field where he has to spend chakra to create the sand.

    “Kimimaro was too”: Kimimaro WAS NOT an expert at evasion. 1. He did NOT have anywhere near Tsunade’s fifty years of war time experience (he survived on coup big deal) 2. His jutsu makes dodging seem stupid (he can take any attack head on so why dodge?) 3. “You’re giving Tsunade powers she does not have.”: She’s been called an evasion expert by Jiraiya, Sakura and others, she has SHOWN her skills at evasion when teaching Sakura and in her fights.

    “We dont know if actual lightning weakens Earth jutsus.” Incorrect, Sasuke used several lightning attacks to destroy them ex. Chidori Nagashi and his Chidori Sword, these attacks convert lightning nature chakra into actual lightning to defuse the bombs. He isn’t using the penetrative aspect of the lightning’s chakra nature but the actual lightning itself.

    “And where’d you get the melt thing from? Melting a bomb is the absolute worst thing to even consider.” She melted rock, she can melt earth attacks, I see no adverse effects of melting the bombs, the worst that could happen would be they trigger an explosion (while their next to Deidara…). “IF you survive the force, the heat of the explosion will do you in.”: Not really, again size wise, Katsuyu has enough space to dissipate the heat (if there is any at all considering it’s a doton attack. FLAMING explosions were only seen in the anime, in the manga they could have been dust clouds with the animators being retarded as usual, this makes sense because Sasuke bled after getting hit instead of being burned, and the same goes for the animals that disintegrated instead of catching fire)

    “which attacks at the cellular level”: But clearly it can’t do damage to someone inside a summon. Fortunately Katsuyu respects Tsunade and would die for her unlike Manda (again if it even could kill her since it seemed only to penetrate Manda’s skin).

    “make Deidara snap like that.”: Deidara would snap at anyone who looked down on him, he was simply insane.

    “he uses his Earth spear and make his body as hard a rock?” Because it only hardens his skin, duh! It doesn’t make him immune to poison and he still has to do things like breath. “Also, we know his hearts have to be neutralized for him to die” No, Kakuzu only said he used the hearts to prolong his life, and declined to think of it as making him immortal. He only has one head, so if you take it out he dies. “Kakuzu’s body structure is different” he still needs all of the human organs to function.

    “And Kakuzu having 92 years of experience would just stand still and let the acid melt him?”: he let Naruto… Also considering Manda’s speed, he’s not an easier target, Kakuzu has to move much further to get out of the harmful range of the acid because of his body size and is much worse suited to do so.

    “but the antidote she made BEFORE the battle” again, unlike Sakura, Tsunade isn’t useless. She has experience dealing with poison while on the battle field and supposedly was able to counter all of Chiyo’s poisons. Worst case scenario, she has to revert to her Mitotic Regeneration to cleanse the poison. Also, Sakura only needed the antidote once. “he had a change of heart at the last moment”: He wouldn’t have had that change of heart if he thought he could live. And I’ll go to my catch phrase again, “unlike Sakura, Tsunade isn’t useless.” Sakura was still standing when Sasori died, so Tsunade would probably easily be able to continue until Sasori was completely gone.

    “Kakashi cant even compare to the sanin”: actually he is pretty close, He has a 32.5 where as they all have 35s (35.5:jiraiya).

    “since its so glaringly true.”: of the Kage’s I think Tsunade has the best chance of beating the Raikage since they are both nintaijutsu users to some extent. The Raikage is the better of the two at nintaijutsu but Tsunade has Medical Ninjutsu and knowledge of how lighting specifically effects the body. She can use large creators to impede the Raikage’s movements. finally, she has Katsuyu to try and absorb the Raikage with so that Tsunade can get a hit in.

  68. I’m not saying Tsuande isn’t a great ninja, she’s very powerful. BUT just from the abilities she’s shown, if it is an all out ninjutsu brawl, I feel like she loses. If it is taijutsu, she could probably win even if she loses in speed because her strength is so high.

    I don’t feel that her speed is enough though to counter anyone who is a true ninjutsu master, such as Kisame or Gaara. We saw during the Pain fight that Tsunade has a limit to her chakra, I think she’s known for being a Sannin not just for the amount of chakra she has but also for the degree of CONTROL that she has over it, that is what is unparalleled. Tsunade is the best medical ninja there ever was (Chiyo’s jutsu was amazing but she admited she wasn’t as good as Tsunade).

    Tsunade mentions to Sakura that medical nins aren’t trained for fighting and that’s why Sakura should stay out of the battle, and I would argue that in kind Tsunade isn’t meant for battling either. She probably did extremely well fighting with Jiraiya and Oro, 2 ninjutsu masters, but on her own I don’t think she could defend against ninjutsu too well.

    About Kakuzu, when he opens his mouth and all those black tendrils come out, clearly his organs are not where they used to be. I sure hope that Tsunade is lightning element based or she can use it because Kakuzu states the following:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/333/15/
    So no physical attacks will work against him, unless you can take away his earth element first, which requires a lightning jutsu (such as chidori… not sure if Tsunade has anything like that).

    That fight was definitely a fight about the elements. Especially because in the same chapter Kishimoto explains elemental strengths/weaknesses. You can see here that Kakashi used Raikiri for defense:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/334/16/

    Next he uses a Suiton to defend against a Katon Fuuton combo (which wasn’t enough):
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/12/

    I guess you could argue that Tsunade would just take the hits, but I don’t see how she gets past Kakuzu’s defenses.

    Again, I’m not saying she’s weak, she’s one of the toughest characters, but I just don’t see Tsunade beating top class ninjutsu on her own.

  69. I need to clarify, when I mention about “About Kakuzu, when he opens his mouth and all those black tendrils come out, clearly his organs are not where they used to be.” I’m responding to the idea that his head is all that needs taking out. Besides, Tsunade would have to get beyond the Doton technique. Maybe her strength is enough… I doubt it though.

  70. “Tsunade has a limit to her chakra”: she healed the ENTIRE village while MOST were in critical condition, that’s not very limited…

    “Maybe her strength is enough… I doubt it though.”: She can CRUSH MOUNTAINS, SAKURA would be enough to break Kakuzu’s earth spear… No NORMAL taijutsu is going to work, but Tsunade’s Taijutsu ISN’T normal.

    “That fight was definitely a fight about the elements”: just because their fight was about elements doesn’t mean that Tsunade’s fight would be about elements.

    Anyway, I’m done arguing about Tsunade…

  71. Tsunade is smart to… she druged jiyraya so she could kill oro for her self instead of sayng to Jiyrya to stay away and be the back upp if something goes wrong… but ehh that aint´so smart??? but she would kick alot of the other kages asses beacuse she is a a legendery sannin and she didn´t get that name for nothing

  72. I wasnt necessarily saying Kakashi wasnt talented, just saying he wouldnt stand a chance against Jiraiya or Oro and my biggest point was that his dad was suppost to be on a whole other leven even when being compared to the Sanin, so just saying you figured Kakashi would be a little more powerful since his dad was insanely powerful

  73. @Mart, I’ll comment on the non-Tsunade related stuff later

  74. @skh_1bc@hotmail.com
    All i have heard of Kakashis dad is that he is compered to be as stong as the sannin, not on a nother level then them

  75. Well on Kakashi gaiden, the 4th says even the sanin compale in comparison, thats why i was saying he was even more powerful than the sanin

  76. @skh_1bc@hotmail.com
    hmm maybe u should read it again
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/240/17/
    its says that the respect is on tha same level

  77. my bad, i was actually reading it before I seen that you had sent that, but yeah I see that i shouldnt have went with the anime on that one so my bad lol

  78. “@Mart, I’ll comment on the non-Tsunade related stuff later” What would that stuff be? the strength of Kakashi, the actual discusion this post was about, or the fact that spoilers are out (watch out for viruses though kids, my computer was attacked when I went to read the spoilers. If your computer gets super aids I warned ya)

  79. just read spoilers on mangahelpers. i find they have things out as early as anyone else and it is always legit.

  80. that’s actually where I read them and the virus popped up while I was on their page.

  81. @Mart, I was actually gonna do a lengthy comment on why lightning jutsus are different from actual lightning, why Gaara can use that huge sand plume to attack, Katsuyu and Pain’s Shinra Tensei. But I dont feel like it anymore cuz wordpress ate my comment when i was almost finished 😦

  82. I think the outcome of the war if it does end Naruto series will be naruto and sasuke both die, but I think sasuke will die trying to save naruto cause I think when they do fight , itachi power is gona come out of naruto and all its gonna be is itachi telling sasuke is version of why he did what he did and it change sasuke aspect of things, what do yall think about that?

  83. @kisu: the way you hate on tsunade makes me think u have a sharingan under that eye-patch… Watch out for sasuke lol!

  84. @Madzi, nah Sasuke cant get me. If he ever tries i’ll just put on a wig and a dress. Girls. Sasuke’s one weakness 😛

  85. @Kisu
    Well, actually, Sasuke has complete immunity against girls, not really his weakness, they have no affect whatsoever, if you get my drift.

  86. Just read the Bleach chapter and all I can say is that Kisuke Urahara has always been my favorite Bleach character and as of this chapter, what I have always suspected to be true is in fact true, therefore I name him strongest, baddest Bleach character of the year, real player. Strongest character in Bleach nomination.

  87. John will you link me to the site you was on for bleach

  88. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/402/

    there you go Minatofan, only Naruto isn’t out yet… oh and if you like bleach:

    http://www.bleachedichigo.com

  89. @Minatofan
    What do you think?, incredible how Urahara Aizene’d Aizen himself. Urahara for Bleach character of the year, he showed a lot of skill with just Kido, that’s impressive.

  90. I wonder how long it will take for kisame to emerge

  91. Where’s is 49??. I’m watching the new episode of shippuden 159 http://tailedfox.com/ . Pain is the best. I wonder how Kabuto is going to use Nagato or even implant chakra rods in the other resurrected akatsuki. That means Itachi would have a mix of the rinnegan & sharigan. Just wanted to say that before anyone else did 🙂 . I hope something like that happens

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