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Mart’s Tournament 3

Post Author: Mart 

First off, I have to say… WOW, I never expected Kabuto to grow so powerful. He has been a favorite of mine for a while (he was my sprite back on old Shannaro). But, even when he made his re-appearance, I was hoping more for a stealthy snake user rather than another Orochimaru style powerhouse character. I think he has earned himself a late-entry into this tournament, so you will all vote whether you think he is powerful enough to advance to the final (next) round.

In other news, last week we actually had some close matches last week. Jiraiya won by 10%, Orochimaru by 14%, Mei Terumi by a mere 6%, and Naruto by 16%. Nagato, Madara, and Hiruzen all destroyed their competition, and Danzo managed to beat out Kakashi by a respectable margin. For me, the upset was Mei Terumi beating Killer Bee (who in his own right surprised me by beating Sasuke). In the side-matches, my surprises came from Hashirama beating Madara, Kimimaru and Hidan being only 4% (7 votes!) apart (Kimimaru won). Also, I decided that I will give Kabuto a second chance against Sasuke, given this chapter’s developments. (He lost last week by 76%).

Now This weeks Matches!!! (note the polls will be placed differently this week for ascetic purposes)

25. Jiraiya vs. Orochimaru

I’m very disputed on this. They are both Sanin, and between the two of them have had the most screen time of any non-team 7 member. They have fought multiple times in the past, including the Sanin battle (where they were hardly at their best conditions) and share one of the many rival relationships in Naruto. I think that Orochimaru would win. He has several advantages over Jiraiya. 1. He has always won in the past, otherwise, Jiraiya would have succeeded in bringing him back to Konoha. 2. Jiraiya is a very physical fighter (He doesn’t use Genjutsu or such techniques often) and Orochimaru is fairly immune to this type of damage, as seen against the Four-tails Kyubbi. 3. He has Edo Tensei, a jutsu that he could use to summon several extreamly powerful ninja. What if Orochimaru decided to summon Hiruzen Sarutobi or Minato? He would have a major advantage over Jiraiya both emotionally and strength wise. Jiraiya mainly relies on Senjutsu and Toad Summons, but I think Snake Summons and the White Snake technique cancel this out. However, Jiraiya is also a strong ninja, and definitely has power, and has a strong fan base, it could go either way.

26. Nagato vs. Hiruzen

Both are extremely powerful ninja. Hiruzen was able to successfully battle three Hokage level ninja, had a vast knowledge of jutsu, and both clever tricks and strong jutsu. I honestly think that he could take on Pein. I don’t think he would have a problem with anyone except Deva Realm, since most of the jutsu Pein used were very similar to common jutsu, except for Deva Realm, and Hiruzen had a counter for almost every jutsu. I see him using Enema to defeat Deva Realm, because with his cage form he could survive the intense pressure until Hiruzen could find a way to break free.

27. Madara vs. Danzo

Why didn’t Madara fight Danzo? It’s just weird. I think it came down to two things. 1. The Sharingan jutsu Shusuisu knew and 2. Hashirama’s Wood Element. I don’t think Danzo’s other techniques were really all that dangerous to an analyzer like Madara. The reason I think these two things are a threat, is because they could potentially harm Madara or put him in an exposed position. If Danzo managed to hit Madara with Shusuisu’s jutsu, he could just use the brainwashing to force Madara to take a fatal hit. Wood ninjutsu on the other hand poses the threat of opening an old wound, namely the one that Hashirama left, that supposedly left Madara as a “shell of his former self.” I just find it weird that either of these two would leave the other alive given the information they had on each other.

28. Naruto vs. Mei Terumi

This bracket has surprised me again and again. I didn’t expect Mei to do this well. I was expecting a Naruto-Sasuke showdown to decide who goes to the final round. With that said, I think Naruto has this one. Besides the fact that he can regenerate any limb or such as Killer Bee could (still shocked he lost) He also has the Toads and Senjutsu to rely on. With Toad Mouth Trap to cancel out Fire and Lava Jutsu and Wind element jutsu (from Fusaku) to blow Acid Mist back in Mei’s direction, I think Naruto has this one.

M. Kabuto vs. Sasuke

WOW, again, just wow. With just Itachi under his control, Kabuto could probably take out Sasuke. Add in all the other Akatsuki members, and Kabuto has this one in the bag. The only possible reasons for Kabuto losing would be if the Revived bodies were much weaker, or just a rouse altogether.

N. Kabuto vs. Naruto

With what I just said about Sasuke, I think that Naruto will be the one to eventually take out all of these bodies. He has already defeated Kakuzu, Deidara, and Nagato, just a little bit more and he could take out Sasori and Itachi (given that he has fought Itachi, is planning to fight Sasuke-with-Itachi’s powers, and has Itachi’s crow in him). He, unlike Sasuke, has the endurance to fight a prolonged battle against these opponents. Another benefit he has is that none of these Akatsuki members work together except for Deidara and Sasori. (and yes I’m a Naruto fan, boo Sasuke)

O. Gaara vs. Killer Bee

Biju vs. Biju, who would win? Gaara has found his true strength and stopped relying on his Bijju, while Killer Bee reasoned with his and relies completely on him. Killer Bee has lightning element, but Gaara has the Kage title. Killer Bee relies on speed attacks while Gaara stands still and relies on his defense to slow, stop, and kill his opponents. As two Jinkuri, these two could not be more different.

P. Naruto vs. Sasuke

The Fan-Favorite Fight: I’ll leave the discusion on this one up to you guys… (though I think Naruto would win, even currently)


93 Responses

  1. Poll N. should say Kabuto vs. Naruto instead of Sasuke, sorry type-o

  2. My votes go as follows:

    Jiraiya vs Orochimaru- I give it to Jiraiya, Jiraiya definetly had the power to take out Oro, but had reservations just like Naruto has against Sasuke, but if he had to he would kill him. Plus we don’t know if Oro beat Jiraiya, maybe Jiraiya confronted him and Oro attacked and ran, so my vote goes for Jiraiya.

    Nagato vs Hiruzen- I am not really sure, could go either way on this one, both were extremely powerful ninjas, but I give it to Hiruzen, he had composure and experience.

    Madara vs Danzo- I give it to Danzo, there is a reason Madara has done thing in such a roundabout way, plus I don’t have much on Madara to go on so you go with what you got and everything point at that Madara is only good at manipulating and avoiding, not necessarily fighting, but frankly I wouldn’t care to argue this one.

    Naruto vs Mei- I give it to Naruto, Naruto has grow so much mentally and strength wise, while all we know about Mei is that she is good at long range jutsu, which any ninja at this level of competition could avoid to some degree.

    Kabuto vs Sasuke- I give it to Kabuto, he mind rapes Sasuke with Itachi’s corpse and I’m sure Sasuke’s mental instability would contribute to his loss and his powers are overrated, if he was so powerful why did he jack his brothers eye?

    Kabuto vs Naruto- Naruto would win, he has matured greatly, his mind has become more stable as opposed to Sasuke who has lost it, that mental stability is the key to winning.

    Gaara vs Killer Bee- I give it to Gaara, because Gaara can make all the sand his weapon which he could use to make a Chibaku tensei like move to crush Killer Bee.

    Naruto vs Sasuke-Give it to Naruto, hopefully I don’t need to elaborate.

    Should Kabuto be allowed into the final round? I voted no, he should compete with the rest of the losers in a separate bracket and then only if he doesn’t lose to any of the other losers should he be allowed to proceed, that’s only fair.


  3. well all i have to say is that the battle between jiraiya and oro is not even a question cuz itachi beat oro when oro was still a part of akatsuki and itachi said to kasime that himself and jiraiya would kill each other if they fought. so that means that oro cant beat jiraiya anyways

  4. just to add on what charkabeast said, Itachi said even if there was others the results would remain the same:) so that means one thing Jiraiya is a beast

  5. Nagato vs Hiruzen? ITS OBVIOUS NAGATO WOULD DESTROY HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anyone needs reasons I’ll be glad to oblige you

  6. -Jiraiya vs Oro
    aside frm the bell test the 3rd Hokage gave them since when did Orochimaru beat Jiraiya?I think Senjutsu canacels Oro’s chances of genjutsu,would give Jiraiya an advantage in taijutsu 7 ninjutsu..he could use Ultimate Rasengan to destroy the coffins of Edo Tensei[along with the contents =P ]…& Jiraiya has great chakra reserves[I think yup greater than Oro] & is more talented in seals than the snake guy..i think in the past their fights ended in stalemate coz Jiraiya didnt go all out like Naruto turning into 9-tails Kyubi against sasugay…plus Jiraiya has a bigger fanbase so I give this to Jiraiya

  7. -Nagato vs 3rd hokage
    the 3rd has a counter to any jutsu..especially Leaf jutsu..but unless he had any knowledge of Nagato’s jutsus I think Nagato has the upper hand..even if Hiruzen knows Nagato still has an advantage..what can the 3rd do against Chibaku Tensei?i give this to Nagato…hmm..which jutsu would win??Nagato’s Gedo Mazo against the Death God Seal?just curious..

    -Madara vs Danzo
    i give this to Madara…favoritism maybe

    -Naruto vs Mei terumi
    walmart already explained why so i chose Naruto

    Sasuke wd his EMS might take Kabuto out

    Killerbee against Gaara might b a draw

    of course Naruto beats sasugayy

    Naruto beats N. Kabuto as explained by walmart again..:D

  8. wtf…..sasuke wiv EMS….the only 1 2 b able 2 rival that will b naruto….who im likin less n LESS wiv each chapter…plus…heroes r soooooo boooooring….boring….the more ppl h8 sasuke the more i like him….hw can his power b over-rated….his clan was taken out bcz they wer so strong….hw can any1 have sharingans n b weak….i swear ppl r jus voting 4 who they like rather than who would wiv….which i rather typical…..la la la….kabuto does 1 jutsu n eeevery1s on him….like wow….madara wil use kabuto so again we can c sasuke test his new ems powers…..ps…jaraiya soooo over-rated….uchiha 4 eeeeever

  9. I don’t get it. Right now Naruto is winning against Kabuto. Right now I believe Kabuto is the strongest.

    Garra doesn’t have the Bijju anymore. Killer bee won that.

    We haven’t seen Sasuke EMS.

    I think Jiraiya is winning because of his fan base.

  10. “Jiraiya definetly had the power to take out Oro, but had reservations just like Naruto has against Sasuke, but if he had to he would kill him.” 1. I doubt he had the power because of Orochimaru’s revival jutsu (I’ll explain more below) and 2. I consider his reservations as part of the fight, just like his Fight against Hiruzen, it’s a strategy Orochimaru commonly uses.

    “he should compete with the rest of the losers”-Okay then here is what I’m asking John, If he DID compete with the losers, do you think he would win? AND to be fair, he never lost, he just never had a match (against Sasuke was exhibition)

    “so that means that oro cant beat jiraiya anyways”- By the same circular logic Jiraiya can’t beat Orochimaru because Orochimaru beat the four-tails while Jiraiya lost to it. On top of that, this is a much more concrete example because 1. The fight actually happened 2. Jiraiya and the kyubbi have closer battle styles than Itachi (Oro. just happened to be weak to sharingan’s and in a vulnerable position, and Itachi just happened to have them) 3. Itachi (who only said those words in the anime) may have had other reasons for saying that.

    “aside frm the bell test”- Aside from the bell test, they fought when Orochimaru left Konoha and Jiraiya was left in the same condition as Naruto was when Sasuke left (Anime flashback only if I’m not mistaken) AND Jiraiya had the chance to fight Orochimaru but instead choose to let the third do it so that he could protect Konoha. However, Jiraiya also told Naruto that he never succeded in defeating Orochimaru (again anime flashback???)

  11. @ PRO and Byakugan invasion
    Last time I checked Jiraiya never won a popularity contest, unlike Sasuke or Kakashi or Deidara, he rarely even makes it to the top ten, and even then that’s rare, so frankly speaking this is not a popularity contest this is based on merit and skill. The only cool and powerful Uchiha that I know is not overated is Itachi, the rest were pretentious and were killed of by Itachi, he went easy on Sasuke, so yeah Sasuke is over rated, he couldn’t even cut it with his own powers so he became power hungry for his brothers eyes, that’s lame. If EMS is so powerful then why did Madara lose against the First Hokage? I thought EMS was so powerful, obviously it can also be defeated. Is Kabuto strong? probably, but he should also be pitted against other characters out of fairness, the Fourth could probably beat him, who knows. So yeah, Jiraiya is not over rated, and Uchiha for never, except for Itachi he was pretty cool and powerful and its not all about fandom, last time I checked Sasuke was the third or second most popular character in Naruto. So Jiraiya Rules. Peace Out 8)

  12. “the Fourth could probably beat him, who knows”- The way I see it Kabuto = or > Nagato (because he has Nagato under his control ong with others. Therefore since Nagato > Jiraiya who is > Minato Kabuto is > Minato. Also Kabuto can summon Minato with Edo Tensei, so he could use that to perfectly neutralize Minato. Minato’s only hope would be to kill him quickly, but considering he used Edo Tensei against Madara, I doubt this option would work.

  13. @mart1
    I don’t think Kabuto could take on the likes of The Fourth, The Raikage, Killer Bee and others, summoning the coffins is the easy part, and Edo Tensei is pretty cool and all, but its time consuming, next he has to implant them with a special seal to take away their willand make them killing machines, by that time they would have already attacked Kabuto, rendering that move useless. Last time I checked Jiraiya never lost to the Fourth Tailed Naruto, he said he almost died, but as I recall he still managed to subdue the Fourth Tail, plus if he wanted to he could use the Fourth’s Key to reseal the Nine Tailed Fox. Jiraiya never said he couldn’t defeat Oro, he just said he couldn’t bring him back, that could mean Oro is good at running away from powerful opponents, Oro didn’t do any better against the Fourth Tailed Kyuubi, he was getting beat up and ended up running away, that’s no victory. So in reality Jiraiya prevailed at defeating the Fourth Tailed Kyuubi returning Naruto to a normal state and getting him flashy new clothes, were as Oro failed and ran. So by the Kyuubi logic and Itachi logic, Jiraiya wipes the floor with Oro, all that was shown in the flash back was Oro attacking, it doesn’t mean he won maybe he attacked and ran, which is the most likely scenario since Jiraiya never mentions that occasion as a time were he almost died. The only reason Oro didn’t admit that Jiraiya was stronger than him was because Oro had a superiority complex, just like Sasuke has with Naruto. Itachi said those word regarding Jiraiya because they are true, I didn’t see Jiraiya freaking out against Itachi or Kisame, frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if Itachi was Jiraiya’s inside source regarding Akatsuki, but that’s just a theory. So yeah Jiraiya beat Oro, no question.

  14. There is now way Kabuto is equal or greater than Nagato, that just assumption, their is no merit or proof or anything that could serve as evidence to back up that claim, not even one battle or comment, plus I think Jiraiya is greater than Nagato, but we will save that for next week. Nagato for all intensive purposes could rip the souls out of the Edo Tensei Summons so its not even a fight, kill the summoner and those puppets are useless since they obey the summoner, no summoner, no more fighting. But what I am saying is that Kabuto should be pitted against others so that people can vote, this is a democracy after all right? Pitt him against the like of the original Oro, Killer Bee or the Raikage or The Fourth. Oh and one question, why didn’t you include Tsunade and Tobirama in this tournament instead of that throw away fight between Hinata and Neji?, this is a contest based on strength and skill, not of controversy, just asking.

  15. Actually this is a tournament based soley on controversy. Most of the matches were aranged… Tobirama and Tsunade weren’t all that strong in my oppinion and I didn’t feel like adding them.

    On the seal: Again, Kabuto pulled this off against Madara, so he must either have had a counter attack or the speed to pull this off. Speed definately has the most likely chance of succes, but Kabuto is now a Kage level ninja even without Edo Tensei.

    On Kabuto vs. Nagato: As Nagato went to pull out Kabuto’s soul, the edo tensei Nagato would take him out, since Nagato and Edo Tensei Nagato are the same with the exception that Edo Tensei Nagato is immune to most damage, The most Nagato could do is a stalemate.

    On Orochimaru/Jiraiya vs the Kyubbi: Orochimaru pinned him to the ground with the Kusungai sword, and was in no threat. Jiraiya on the other hand was left in a near death situation and was NOT shown having subdued the Kyubbi, EVEN with the advantage of controling the Kyubbi seal, which Orochimaru didn’t have.

  16. @Mart, Kabuto cant summon any of the Hokages, they’re all in the Reaper (Oro only began to summon the Fourth in the ANIME). As for Nagato. What could Kabuto’s Nagato do against the real deal, using the Six Paths? Nothing. After going in an all out battle, Kabuto’s Nagato would probably crumble from the stress the Rinnegan causes. Or The real Nagato could just use the Rinnegan to free Nagato’s soul from the body. Kabuto (one of my favorites ever since he beat Tsunade) is strong, but just not as strong as Nagato was.

  17. Danm it eat my comment:

    1. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/117/18/: the fourth was summoned, just not named as the Yondaime. Therefore any Kage is summonable.

    2. Edo Tensei could use Renningan Jutsu to his hearts content, He doesn’t have to fear aging because he will just regenerate.

    3. Any Jutsu Nagato used to free Edo Tensei Nagato would leave him open to counter-attack .

  18. @John
    itachi is the 1….but evn he had 2 kill the clan whilst they slept or wtever….eitherway no str8 fights..if they wernt such a threat there wouldnt have been a order 2 slaughter them..sasuke never had a choice when it came 2 the curse mark being given 2 him…plus the whole team 7 was jus temporary…his objective was 2 kill his bro so yh….aquire the power 2 do so….im sure naruto would aquire the power needed if it ment defending the village or saving that waste girl sakura…(h8 her…lol but who doesnt)..sasuke has his bros eyes cz he was blind…only a fool would leav them behind…..only blind ppl would believe sasuke ever had a chance against itachi wiv mangekyou….so of course he went easy on sasuke…..never said EMS was unbeatable hence y i sed naruto wil b his only rival (power wise)….n OFCOURSE ems is powerful….jus wiv naru vs sas the 1st was the ONLY rival in the ninja world who could beat Madara…SO YEAH the EMS is the SH**…..and on the flip side doesnt that make it wrong 4 naruto 2 use the fox chakra….as its evil and all that….lol…plus HIS ninja way n the promise he made never 2 use it….(power hungry no!!!)….its never gna happen but i sooooo want sasuke 2 beat naruto…..if not then they work 2geva 2 beat Madara….i jus dt want naruto 2 win….boooooo….UCHIHA 4EVER…..

  19. @Mart, http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/117/19/ there’s no way to know what was in that coffin. But its unlikely it was the Fourth since they said the sealer and the sealee are trapped and must do battle in the Reaper’s stomach for all eternity (seems unlikely that a human can trump the God of Death, unless your name is Nagato of course).http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_Demon_Consuming_Seal

    Also, we know they can regenerate losing a limb, but we don’t know if they can regenerate the effects of aging (which is like what the Rinnegan does since it emaciates it’s user and makes their hair paler). Also, we don’t know if Kabuto’s Edo Tensei zombies can even move or talk, let alone fight. They could just be a bluff (i hope they aren’t though)

    Every Technique leaves you open to a counterattack

  20. Oro vs jiryia come on oro would lose. Pol mention the 4 tails but remember jiryia had to let up because that was his student while oro could go all out to try to kill naruto. As for gaara vs killerbee I say toss up. Kilerbee may be quick but gaara is still forminable
    . Not only Dido he block the raikages kick which was tough enuf to dmg susanno but gaara also stopped amatersu so for me. I’d say a draw

  21. @Mart: I just wanted to say that the guy’s name is Shisui, not Shusuisu O_O

    Nice tournament so far!

  22. BTW the uchiha are a bunch of pansies….. the only uchiha any good was itachi I mean come on he and madara massacred the entire clan
    I don’t care that they were asleep I mean there were no security detail to warn them should something happen at night? Also sasuke barely beat his bro who was terminally ill going blind and didn’t want to kill sasuke in the first place lol

  23. What’s with the extreme fascination with the new flavor of the month? Kabuto shows up with a few new tricks and now he’s on the same level as Nagato and his Rinnegan??? Wow lets not be so impressionable with the return of a couple dead guys… The real Itachi and the real Nagato would unleash hell on Kabuto… No need to cite fancy logic its jus unadulterated fact..

  24. I agree with sirius…. kabuto is gone, comes back with a sick jutsu and all the sudden kabuto is at the top tier of ninja. I still say madara, naruto, sasuke ( though i hate to admit it), a live itachi, nagato, kisame… the list goes on and on of ninja i think could take kabuto. Hes good,, but id say he is leading the second tier, not the first.

  25. “seems unlikely that a human can trump the God of Death”- Isn’t that exactly what Orochimaru is doing by bringing back the dead? The way I see it is that when people die, they are taken by the shinigami, and anything that brings back the dead is either in defiance of him (Nagato) or has a deal with him (Orochimaru trading a soul for a soul).

    “Also, we know they can regenerate losing a limb, but we don’t know if they can regenerate the effects of aging”- aging is just damage at a cellular level, free radicals just attaching to DNA, it’s no different than anyother type of damage, because, say a limb becomes to old to work, even if Edo Tensei doesn’t directly heal that, the Edo subject could just sever the limb and let it regenerate.

    I honestly think it would be a lot cooler if Kabuto’s actions were a bluff, HOWEVER, he knows that Madara will expect him to deliver what he promised, or he will just be killed. SO I think it is a stretch to say they can’t function.

    “No need to cite fancy logic its jus unadulterated fact..” I like my fancy logics and I like Kabuto. If you want an unadultered fact, try this one. EVERY villan in EVERY manga is, in some way, MORE POWERFULL than the last. If opponents got weaker or staied the same, as the main characters got stronger, it would be boring. It is just the law of survival of the fittest.

  26. @ Walmart1 Kabuto hasnt demonstrated on any level that he’s the advancement in manga villianry… He’s regurgitated an old technique that on its own couldn’t defeat any Kage level opponet… If we go by your statement that in order to keep mangas fresh villains have to progress to higher levels along with the hero then Sasuke not Kabuto fulfills that role… He’s the one with EMS, and I doubt he take kindly to having his brother resurrected and used as a pawn…

  27. And Im willing to bet that the technique Kabuto uses will go bad for him…

  28. Okay. I’ve had a very tough time with this entire tourney. All the match-ups are really close. But, here are my picks:

    Jiraiya v. Orochimaru; I think Jiraiya would win. Not by much, but he would. Oro may have very many jutsu, but Jiraiya has so many Toad jutsu that Oro has never seen. Sage Mode would overpower just about any jutsu Oro has. (Some exceptions: Edo Tensei, jutsu like that.) Another thing I’d like to point out is that Jiraiya survived with much less damage than Oro when Naruto accidentally went Four-Tails. Oro had to use that Reincarnation jutsu. And that was with Yamato there to stop him.

    Nagato v. Hiruzen Sarutobi; I have one thing to say. Hiruzen would kick… his… ass! If you look at the second fanbook, it says in his prime he could counter any jutsu, even MS and EMS techniques.

    Madara Uchiha v. Danzou Shimura; I believe Danzou would win this one. We’ve never seen more than Madara’s Teleportation Jutsu. Also, Danzou has Wood Release and Izanagi. Another thing is that Danzou has Shisui’s Sharingan, who’s ability was to control someones mind without them even knowing. He could easily control Madara.

    Naruto Uzumaki v. Mei Terumi; I think Mei would win this one. Even with the Kyuubi, Naruto isn’t as skilled as Mei is. If he used Shadow Clones, she could Boil them or melt them with Lava. And he could never get close enough to use Rasengan, and she would probably evade the Rasenshuriken. That’s all I have right now.

  29. And here’s another point I’m havin issues with… Hiruzuen could counter any technique true, but that would be know techniques, aka techniques with names… There’s no way he’s jus gunna counter Nagato… He’s gunna find himself in the same boat Kakashi and Jiraiya was in and dats wonderin wat da hell jus happened, and he’ll have to spend a large amount of the fight analyzin Nagato’s technique… Now Im sure he’d figure it out, but some techniques dont have a counter like havin your soul ripped out… So Nagato over Hiruzen…

  30. @ Sirus Prime:

    “Kabuto hasnt demonstrated on any level that he’s the advancement in manga villianry”- Yes he has. 1. He steped out of Orochimaru’s shadow 2. He is a free agent type villan, with his own agenda 3. He didn’t just regurgitate an old technique, he improved it. Just like say all of Sasuke and Naruto’s techniques which were originally used by others. 4. You are right that Sasuke IS a major villan, and that he IS stronger than those before him, BUT he is NOT the only villan, neither he nor Kabuto have hit their peaks (permenant defeat or death) but I GUARENTEE that who ever hits their peak first will be the weaker of the two BECAUSE they stopped growing as the other one progressed.

    “And Im willing to bet that the technique Kabuto uses will go bad for him…”-Well DUH… thats another Manga rule… “ALL villanous jutsu have a weakness” this will be true of all villans, including Madara and Sasuke and any other villan. Even EMS has a BLATANT plothole-ish weakness… Madara, the ONLY EMS user we know of, has choosen (or been forced) to stop using it. I question, why?

  31. @ Sirus Prime:

    “but that would be know techniques, aka techniques with names”: with the exception of Deva Pein, ALL of Pein’s jutsu have a well-known equivilent:

    Ex. Pein’s Summoning Jutsu: Summuning jutsu (duh), HGR’s chakra stealing: Yoroi Akaido’s (Konoha Ninja from the Chunin exams, defeated by Sasuke, worked for Orochimaru) chakra stealing Jutsu (also several others like Jirobo of the Sound 4), Asura Realm: Puppet Master Jutsu, Preta Pain’s jutsu: Yamanaka Clan Jutsu, Preta Path’s Revival: Edo Tensei and Dead Deamon Consuming seal. Even Deva Path’s Jutsu has several things in common with normal barrier ninjutsu.

    @Noneatencookie: “Jiraiya survived with much less damage than Oro”: Jiraiya described it as one of two times he came close to death while Orochimaru PLANNED to use his rebirth jutsu (since it is one of his commonly used jutsu) AND EASILY walked away afterwards.

    ” Even with the Kyuubi, Naruto isn’t as skilled”: 1. How does the Kyubbi make Naruto more skilled? It just gives him RAW power and regeneration. 2. I find it odd that everyone talks about Mei using long range jutsu, and yet the only jutsu we have seen he use are short to mid range (this also applies to the other Lava user as well). saying she could fight him with her elements at a long range is like saying Naruto could do the same just because he knows wind element.

  32. @ Walmart1, regarding Nagato first…. He possesses the Rinnegan… He’s only one of two people whos ever had it, and the first one founded ninjutsu… So the extent in which Nagato could go with his jutsus is anybodys guess but wat we saw in da manga is surely not the limit to his power… For example Nagato/Pein whipped up summon after summon and one could easily speculate that he would be able to pull out a summon equal to or greater that Hiruzen’s Enma… As far as Kabuto, regardless of peakin or not peakin if Sasuke and Kabuto went at who’s winning that fight… With EMS, I doubt Sasukes movin a muscle… I think Kabuto trump card is his manipulativeness… He’s jus a sneaky bastard

  33. “if Sasuke and Kabuto went at who’s winning that fight… With EMS, I doubt Sasukes movin a muscle”-conveinetly, Kabuto vs. Sasuke is one of the poll questions this week and Kabuto is currently ahead. I think that Kabuto would beat Sasuke even with EMS because Sasuke himself, with Orochimaru’s jutsu (what is the plural of jutsu? jutsus and Jutsi don’t seem right) was able to defeat all of Itachi’s MS jutsu, which is all Sasuke has. PLUS he has Itachi, among other things at his disposal.

  34. Oh, and on Nagato’s limits. We know several things like the fact that he will die if he overuses his techniques. ALSO, I never said that Hiruzen would counter Summons with summons (Jiraiya did to some extent though) I said that like normal summons, Renningan summons are just large animals. Whatever counter-jutsu (plural again) Hiruzen would normally use on “normal” summons, he could easily apply to the Renningan summons.

  35. That’s jus it tho, Nagato’s summons arent jus large animals… Nobody knows, exept Kishi of course the true extent of Nagato’s or the Rinnegans power… So a fight to the Death against Nagato is unwinnable, now is dat a word… and on Sasuke beatin Itachi with Oro’s assistance is a good point if the EMS was on the same level as MS… Apparently those two or suppose to be worlds apart, which makes The First defeat of Madara all that impressive, but dats a rant for another day, seein dat The First got screwed in this little poll thingy…

  36. “Nobody knows, exept Kishi of course the true extent of Nagato’s or the Rinnegans power”- I disagree, because by your definition, nobody knows the “true extent” of anyodies powers. Hiruzen could have countless other monkey summons besides Enema, that we just never saw him use. Nagato’s Renningan powers don’t make him invincible or give him limitless power. Both Jiraiya and Naruto pushed him to his limits, Naruto even pushed him far enough that his next large jutsu killed him. Using the Renningan is massively powerfull, but like several other jutsu in that vein of techniques, it costs the user’s life

  37. I agree partially but i present this argument… The Rinnegan has been passed off as the strongest of all dojutsu’s… Its legendary by all accounts and standards… nuttin compares to hence its rareness and reverance in the Naruverse… and in the Naruverse dojutsus or the epitome of ninjutsu… If u got one ur the baddest dude on the block and Nagato jus happened to have the most powerful dojutsu in all of existence…

  38. “Apparently those two or suppose to be worlds apart, which makes The First defeat of Madara all that impressive, but dats a rant for another day, seein dat The First got screwed in this little poll thingy…” I disagree; 1. MS and EMS are supposedly exactly alike except for the fact that EMS doesn’t make you go blind and potentially gives you the other MS jutsu 2. Hashirama got the same chance everyone else got, the fact that we know little about him and that he did poorly in his only shown fight would hold true of anyone. I think Madara’s lose to someone like Hashirama actually shows the opposite, that the EMS was WEAK…

  39. “Naruverse dojutsus or the epitome of ninjutsu”: Doujutsu don’t mean a thing, Kishimoto’s major theme of pretty much all of Naruto was an unskilled but determined ninja like Naruto can defeat all of these over-hyped kekkai Genkai with ease, from Neji to Pein this stands true…

    I agree Doujutsu are powerfull, but in the end they are just techniques like anyother.

  40. Then y da hell is Madara winning every poll and he’s dun nuttin but phase in and out of existence… Cheap parlor trick, and i bet Kakashi’s figured it out too, dats y he was so ready to take on Madara…

  41. and Naruto didnt defeat Pein… He gave him a hell of a run for his money,and dat in my opinon was the best chapter ever and ive read dat chapter 900 hundred times… and i kno wit out any doubt dat Naruto convinced Pein to change his views with the all powerful naruto can change everybody jutsu… Pein forfeited his life, he didnt lose it…

  42. So Peins record is a whole lot of wins apparently, no losses and a draw… Pein’s or Nagato, i think Pein reads cooler, isnt losin to anyone in Naruverse accept the Sage of Six Paths dude… People who create moons dont lose… and apparantly Pein can create a mini moon…

  43. Madara lost last week to Hashirama AND though he has a doujutsu, he doesn’t use it to any great extent, since it is more than possible to time/space teleport without a sharingan.

    I wouldn’t say Nagato lost to Naruto, but dying means he reached his limit, and that he has one. Given the deathgrip type jutsu he used, whatever limit he had on what he could do and live is far less than reviving all of Konoha.

    Also Hiruzen was also called a battle god and supposedly wasn’t defeated until, like Pein, he used a self sacrificing jutsu

  44. u guys dont even know how powerfull kabuto is but u vote for him to beat sauske who is the second strongest ninja(madara is first but sauske might be stronger if he trained wit his new eyes, i bet itachi wanted sauske to take his eyes so john i dont think of it as jacking his eye,why do you think itachi told him about the eternal mangekyo sharingan) in naruto.if you have the mangekyo sharingan like sauske now does u can controll the 9 tailed fox so he can easilly beat naruto if they fought and he transformed into the 9tailed fox,we still dont know if wat itachi gave naruto wit the crow is so u cant say its something to help him beat sauske. sauske has the eternal mangeko sharigan so he gots all the power that itachi had plus some that are unknow so i dont know how he can lose

  45. I think da strongest person in Naruverse dats alive rite now is Killer Bee… He has full control over the 8 tails, and in an all out fite, who’s gunna beat him? Lava girl? Really??? He’s stronger than his bro who would massacre Lava girl… She is hot tho… in a manga kind of way…

  46. @YellowUchiha:

    “madara is first but sauske might be stronger if he trained wit his new eyes, i bet itachi wanted sauske to take his eyes so john i dont think of it as jacking his eye” – Actually, Itachi never wanted Sasuke to take his eyes. He only wanted Sasuke to rebuild the Uchiah Clan to its former glory. He never knew Madara was going to keep his eyes.

  47. I think The raikage is stronger than Bee (since HE is the kage and not bee) and I think that Madara is the strongest living ninja, then Kabuto, then Naruto, THEN sasuke. Just as you say we hve no idea what Kabuto is capable of, we have no idea how EMS works or if it can control the kyubbi when it’s got a host.

  48. @ Mart,

    Has it not been stated that The Raikage can only handle KillerBee up to a certain stage… I’mma go and research it but Im sure that when Bee reaches a certain stage The Raikage cant beat him…

  49. “The Raikage can only handle KillerBee up to a certain stage…”- No what it said was that Raikage was the only one who could handle him AT a certain stage (one of his highest stages): http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/04/

  50. See this is what irritates me about this kabuto situation. HE has been absent for so long and comes back and ppl like mart places kabuto over naruto and sasuke……….I mean come on both sasuke and naruto have beaten kage level ninja while kabuto just walks out pulls out a sick jutsu and presto one of the most powerful ever! Give me a break…..

  51. “sasuke and naruto have beaten kage level ninja”- Don’t forget Kabuto owned Tsunade, a hokage. Plus Kabuto has his medical ninjutsu, could before supposedly take on Kakashi, and now had all or Orochimaru’s techniques most of which were incredibly powerful (not JUST one).

  52. Yes all the jutsus of a Guy who couldn’t beat a ill itachi LOL. And if ur doing the tsunade argument who rasenganed kabuto near death? I think it was a 12 year old naruto LOL. Only reason kabuto kept up with rsunade was because of her blood phobia which she got over and proceeded to pound oro into the ground. The kabuto tsunade fight was not even a fight anyways so once again who has kabuto BEATEN?? No one near danzo or pain who were defeated

  53. I’d also like to throw out that I wish itachi (my favorite character ) was alive cause I would love to see what a healthy ruthless itachi would do seeing as how we have never seen his true strength t full power

  54. “Yes all the jutsus of a Guy who couldn’t beat a ill itachi”- 1. Neither Sasuke nor Naruto could take Itachi, he simply weakened himself and STILL had to LET Sasuke win (not to mention he PLANNED that fight SOLEY with the inention of taking out Orochimaru.). 2. Orochimaru was weak towards sharingan, and a cocky bastard on top of that. His losses to Itachi were more a result of his superiority complex than his skills.

    “who rasenganed kabuto near death?”-and at the same time Kabuto took out his heart. Without Tsunade and a MAGIC necklace coming out of no where, Naruto would have died, whereas without help, Kabuto walked away fine.

    “was because of her blood phobia”: Besides Pain, Naruto hasn’t really taken out any Kage level ninja on his own, and just as you can make excusses for that fight, i can make excusses for Pein’s defeat, the same goes for Itachi-Sasuke (infact above I did). But for all of the excusses, He still managed to take her on. She did use Milotic Regeneration to then TRY and take out Orochimaru, but in the end, even that was a draw.

  55. Lol Walmart r u telling orois stronger than Hitachi? Cause that is what it sounds like. As for kabuto all I was mentioning was that a 12 year old with half kabutos experience stood toe to toe and he didn’t take narutos heart he attached both of theirs so if one stopped the others would. And once again please don’t tell me oro wad better in skills than a prodigy like itachi cause that is funny

  56. “he didn’t take narutos heart he attached both of theirs”- No, your thinking of some bullshit a clone of Kabuto did to Sakura during a filler. In the Naruto-Kabuto fight, he used Chakra Scalpel to sever part of his heart.

    “Lol Walmart r u telling orois stronger than Hitachi?”-I think it would be a close fight. I think that Itachi is the stronger of the two, but only by a small margin, and mostly due to styles. For instance, I could never see Itachi destroying an entire hidden village (all he managed was a clan) he just doesn’t have the stanima but one-on-one Itachi wins due to his Genjutsu skill, and Oro. notknowing about Sussano’o’s sword (which is probably the cheapest weapon ever for attacking Orochimaru).

  57. I think some people like to argue jus for the sake of arguing, and dats fine… But some concessions have to be made… One Naruto didnt beat Pein, Pein sacrificed himself… But Naruto did do very very well against da baddest dude in Naruto… Also there are varying degrees of power amongst the Kages, so beating one Kage level opponent doesnt mean you could beat another… Naruto jus went toe to toe with the strongest Kage level opponent and held his own…
    So by that logic, Kabuto went up against Tsunade a Kage level ninja and he did weaken her, so for argument sake lets say he beat her, Naruto beat Kabuto and held his own against Pein another Kage level ninja who destroyed, literally, Tsunade and the whole town of Konaha… So Naruto faced a stronger Kage level ninja and beat Kabuto one on one…So who’s stronger? Naruto over Kabuto easily… Sasuke wit EMS over Kabuto even easier…

  58. And am i wrong in thinkin dat Oro tried to take Itachi’s eyes once before and lost? How’d dat little encounter go if Itachi and Oro are so evenly matched? Oro- hey Itachi can i borrow your eyes for a moment, Ill bring em back. I promise… Itachi- nah i cant, my mom will get mad, i have to give to my lil brother in a couple of years… Oro- u suck Itachi, Im leavin this group… Im out… Itachi- see ya… I dont think so either…. Oro got a hair up his ass and thought he could take Itachi and gain his eyes, he tried, and got his ass handed to him, so he was like screw dis Im out… Itachi over Oro round 2 even easier…

  59. “I think some people like to argue jus for the sake of arguing”-yup, I’m just on here while I play the work evasion game most of the time.

    “Naruto beat Kabuto” as stated above, HELL NO HE DIDN’T!

    “How’d dat little encounter go”- Actually it was an encounter of two jutsu, Oro used white snake and Itachi used Sharingan Genjutsu. It’s not like they had an all out battle, Oro. just got beat by the sharingan (and as Sasuke showed, ANYONE with a shraingan would have beaten him because that’s his particular plot-hole style giant weakness, it wasn’t anything special about Itachi’s skills)

  60. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    U jus didnt say, or write, that there’s nuttin special about Itachi’s skill….
    and im feelin the whole work evasion thing, dats y ive been arguin wit u for da best day and half almost…

  61. LOL nothing special about itachi? O and last I checked oro didn’t invade konpha by himself and o BTW he failed. And as for itachi
    .. how much sadder is it that all it took for itachi to beat oro ( who lost a hand to itachi BTW) was one technique? Its not itachis fault he only needs one jutsu to win. And as for that being oro weakneuss so what everyone has one. It just so happens that itachis weakness was a fatal disease and time lol so don’t say there was nothing special bout itachi he was a prodigy from age 10

  62. I’m not saying that Itachi isn’t special, I’m saying that his victory wasn’t special. That anyone with a sharingan and the will to live would have won.

  63. So obito or a 12 year old with one could beat oro than lol

  64. yes, wasn’t Sasuke like 16? your forgetting in both the time he attacked Sasuke and the first time he attacked Itachi he was trying to steal their bodies not kill them. The White Snake form is both his strongest and weakest form because he is vulnerable to genjutsu users which sharingan users are inherintly good at.

  65. Sigh I’m done with this conversation mart LOL. You just keep on throwing out the same junk when all I’m saying is that there was a fight itachi beat oro and oro high tallied away from akaksuki. Itachi was more skilled than oro and 10 times out of 10 itachi would win imo

  66. it wasnt a fight because oro had NOTHING on itachi…..like nothin….he lost his hand n that was enough 4 him 2 run away at the speed of the wind…..tbh…itachi spared him….couldv taken his life easily if he wanted 2…….

  67. You guys do realize that literally one chapter ago Naruto admits that he still isn’t enough yet to defeat Sasuke. And that was before Sasuke got the EMS… *sigh*

  68. @ssj
    Naruto also said dat if they both fought they both would die…. So I find dat whole chapter suspect… *Bigger Sigh*

  69. “Naruto admits that he still isn’t enough yet to defeat Sasuke”- I think that was more of the whole no-kill-naruto bit, the very last of it, though if you really want to get technicall SSJ, RIGHT NOW Sasuke if blind, Naruto could easily trounce Sasuke who is waiting in the recovery room.

  70. obviously sasuke wouldn’t go into a fight before his eyes recover mart. i never said anything about being technical, i was taking what naruto just said. i don’t see why it wouldn’t mean he couldn’t handle sasuke. i mean when he said it, he did just learn about all of sasuke’s recent fights, and how he just beat danzou, and prbly heard about his MS techniques. i don’t think it was a no-kill bit, he just told the toad sage he knows damn well what he has to do. he just knows he has to train some more, which is obviously what he is going to to with killerbee and the kyuubi before he can face sasuke. and i was assuming, since you’ve been talking about EMS, that he would have that on top of it all.

  71. “Given the deathgrip type jutsu he used, whatever limit he had on what he could do and live is far less than reviving all of Konoha.”

    I have to disagree, Konan said “If he uses it now with these chakra levels….”. Remember this guy had just essentially fought a war with the then-most-powerful-Village and then fought a Sage and a Biju, before he decided to use this technique. Konan didnt say “He cant revive this many people”, what she says instead proves that if he rested then reviving Konoha is entirely in his power.

  72. Let me clarify that a bit Kisu. he couldn’t battle all of Konoha then revive them all and live. I am simply saying he didn’t have the limitless chakra that was implied before that, just a VERY large amount. My point was that even he would eventually get tired out in a battle. But I’m done with that particular arguement… Some how I went from arguing Kabuto vs. Sasuke to Orochimaru vs. Itachi and all that…

    “obviously sasuke wouldn’t go into a fight before his eyes recover mart.” You said “Naruto said last chapter…” well that ALSO happened last chapter.

    “i don’t see why it wouldn’t mean he couldn’t handle sasuke.”- you used a double negative here… Naruto’s just got his inferiority complex as far as Sasuke goes. He’s always had it just like Sasuke’s always had his superiority complex. If Sasuke said “I can destroy all of Konoha by myself” I wouldn’t take him at his word either, despite that he probably thinks he could.

  73. what if madara didnt give sauske itachis eyes but gave him peins eyes,sauske wouldnt have notice anything

  74. no. i used a triple negative. ha

    “You said “Naruto said last chapter…” well that ALSO happened last chapter.” – mart you are nitpicking at stupid points and not looking at what i was trying to say. the way i see this tournament is that the fighters are in like a chunnin style arena, with the max of their abilities thus far. you know, and i know sasuke wouldn’t come into the fight with his eyes all bandaged up. just like nagato wouldn’t be fighting in this tournament as a zombie or w/e. (excluding kabutos technique).

    as far as the inferiority complex goes, i wouldn’t put it in comparison to sasuke’s superiority complex. sasuke’s is way more extreme, naruto actually more often argues that they are equals.

  75. SSJ: Then I’ll stop using technicalities:

    I think it’ll be a Raikage-esk situation where Naruto exceeds what even the Sharingan can follow, making Amatseru and Tsukyoumi obsolete. Since we have the benifit of knowing what Sasuke will come out with the next time they fight (EMS) where as with Naruto we got a cliffhanger, however he will probably be able to use the Kyubbi “at the height of his abilities” at the very least. I think the Kyubbi will then be able to crush Sussano. Most Sasuke fans seem to think that the EMS will be able to control the Kyubbi when he makes his apperance, but I disagree. The Jinkuri-bijju combination was enough to overpower the Sharingan for KB, it should be enough for Naruto. Add to that a little help from Itachi, and I think Naruto has this in the bag.

  76. Obviously Naruto WILL win their destined fight. Everybody has known that from the beginning. The fricken manga is named after him, he has to. I am saying that as of right now, I don’t think he would (hence my initial comment).

    Naruto may be fast, but even with sage-mode i wouldn’t say he is as fast as minato and the raikage yet. and even if he was, you can’t just say amaterasu is useless. i’ll give you that tsukuyomi prbly wouldn’t help, but as demonstrated against the raikage, amaterasu proves as both a valuable offense and defense, especially when combo’d with susanoo. with an EMS, things like that are far more possible for sasuke. not to mention it would help deal with shadow clones, while they stand their and gather chakra for naruto.

    we don’t really know what the EMS can do yet, other than allowing sasuke to spam his MS abilities without going blind. i am sure there is more to it than that, kishi has emphasized it to the point where there has to be. it is not out of the realm of possibility that sasuke would pick up madara’s famous teleporting jutsu.

    and i actually think sasuke being able to control the kyuubi (in this case suppress it) is more plausible than you think. i have never heard anything about the sharingan (and then MS and EMS to a further extent respectively) being able to control the bijuus. only that it has the ability to control the kyuubi. madara is clear evidence of this, as well sasuke effortlessly suppressing the kyuubi in naruto way back when. this explains why sasuke couldn’t really do it on KB, because that is not within the sharingan’s powers. i’m sure if anybody can teach sasuke how to deal with naruto’s kyuubi chakra it is madara.

    but i’m getting off topic. i was only trying to address your points. i do not feel like theorizing their entire battle in the future, i am just saying that as of now i think sasuke has a much better chance than that poll suggests.

  77. “”seems unlikely that a human can trump the God of Death”- Isn’t that exactly what Orochimaru is doing by bringing back the dead?” – Nope, Oro trumps death. What we know is when someone dies a normal death, they fall under the jurisdiction of Nagato’s King of Hell (hence the reason he has to be summoned for them to be freed), but summoning the God of Death is totally different. Its like breaking a supernatural rule if you pull someone from the GOD OF DEATH’S stomach.

  78. “amaterasu proves as both a valuable offense and defense, especially when combo’d with susanoo”

    “sasuke effortlessly suppressing the kyuubi in naruto”: 1. Then Naruto WANTED to surpress the beast instead of fighting with it because he had just hurt Sakura. 2. The control of bijju is similar to when Sasuke controled Manda with genjutsu, if it doesn’t work then Sasuke can’t control the bijju.

    “King of Hell” and “GOD OF DEATH’S” besides the difference in apperance I fail to see how using the King of hell is different and not breaking some supernatural rule. PLUS “They fall under the jurisdiction of Nagato’s King of Hell” their only under that summon’s jurisdiction for a short time period, then they go back to the God of Death’s “jurisdiction” because Nagato’s technique can’t revive them

  79. “1. Then Naruto WANTED to surpress the beast instead of fighting with it because he had just hurt Sakura.” – naruto might have wanted it suprpessed, but that doesn’t change the fact that he played no part in sasuke suppressing it.
    “2. The control of bijju is similar to when Sasuke controled Manda with genjutsu, if it doesn’t work then Sasuke can’t control the bijju.” – sasuke didn’t control manda, he hid himself inside him. madara actually controlled the kyuubi while fighting alongside it. sasuke wouldn’t be able to control the kyuubi while fighting naruto, but prbly just be able to suppress any kyuubi-based attacks. like i said before, i think controlling the kyuubi is part of the more advanced uchiha kekkei genkai abilities, but not all bijuu.

  80. “naruto might have wanted it suprpessed, but that doesn’t change the fact that he played no part in sasuke suppressing it.”- Considering that Naruto’s emotions are what determine the strength of the Kyubbi seal that’s quite unfair to say. Naruto by simply doing nothing but remaining clam was already surpressing the beast, if he had let the Kyubbi control him or gotten angry at Sasuke instead of just standing there then it would have been considerably harder for Sasuke to surpress the Kyubbi. Naruto wasn’t even in the chakra cloak yet, I hardly think it means Sasuke can surpress a real attack from the kyubbi jinkuri combo.

    “sasuke didn’t control manda, he hid himself inside him.” – He used the Sharingan to force Manda to take the hit, look at that chapter, Manda has Sharingan in his eyes and curses Sasuke for controling him.

  81. No, what he did was summon Manda, hid himself inside the snake (which is why Manda received the damage and not him) and then when suigetsu summoned manda, sasuke released himself. the sharingan is in manda’s eyes because sasuke used the sharingan genjutsu abilities to pull it off.

    and if madara could control the full kyuubi, then it is certainly possible for sasuke to suppress the full kyuubi chakra. because that is all it would be, the more naruto gives into the kyuubi, the more it becomes the very thing madara would control with the EMS. and back then all sasuke had was a normal sharingan. he has now upgraded twice.

  82. “used the sharingan genjutsu abilities to pull it off.”- This is exactly my point… why would he need genjutsu if it was just a summon???

    “the more it becomes the very thing madara would control” As Madara stated, when a beast is unsealed, it is much weaker than when inside a host who knows how to preform jutsu that use it’s power. (he said this about the three tails). As a Jinkuri, even if Naruto goes nine-tailed form, he is still different than the unsealed Kyubbi. If Sasuke uses Genjutsu on the Kyubbi Naruto is there to free him, if he uses Genjutsu on Naruto, the Kyubbi can do what the Hachibi did. As a pair, they are much stronger than alone.

  83. @Mart, I fail to see the logic in many things in the Naruverse, but I found the dissatisfying answer “Just smile and nod”.

  84. what i am saying is that there is a clear difference between the distinct taming ability of the kyuubi, and a simple genjutsu performed by sasuke. madara’s presence outside of the kyuubi in that hashirama fight is partial evidence of that. what you say is true about the naruto-kyuubi possibility of being able to snap out of genjutsu (if suppressing the kyuubi is genjutsu. we don’t even know that it is yet), but as of now, naruto and the kyuubi do not have a cooperative symbiotic relationship. so it wouldn’t work, naruto wouldn’t want to release the kyuubi from anything right now. it is possible that in the future after training with killerbee that your battle plan is all possible, but AGAIN, this tournament isn’t including how strong or abilities the characters might have in the future.

  85. “there is a clear difference between the distinct taming ability of the kyuubi,”- I don’t see that difference if there is one. The few pic.s we see of the release kyubbi around madara is with Sharingan in his eyes just like the Sasuke Manda situation.

    “naruto and the kyuubi do not have a cooperative symbiotic relationship” – They don’t chit-chat like the Hachibi and Killer Bee do, but they deffinately have been co-operating on some level since the chunin exams. The Kyubbi wants to protect Naruto as it’s host, so if he’s being controled and is about to die then the Kyubbi will come in and save him. The same goes for Naruto helping the Kyubbi.

    “naruto wouldn’t want to release the kyuubi from anything right now” – if it was to kill sasuke/protect Konoha he would.

    “AGAIN, this tournament isn’t including how strong or abilities the characters might have in the future.”: I could (and have already) say the same things about Sasuke though. He DOESN’T have the EMS yet (he’s still in recovery from the surgery) and we don’t know what abilities it will give him including if he will be able to control the Kyubbi with it.

  86. Here are some pic.s showing the Kyubbi controled.

    Here is a pic. with Manda+Sharingan eyes:
    Here is the Kyubbi, same condition:

    The other pic.s we see of the Kyubbi:
    Here is to far away to tell, the blank white is not the kyubbi’s normal iris pattern though, look here

    Also, the method that Sasuke uses to surpress the Kyubbi is clearly Genjutsu

  87. i wouldn’t say they have been cooperating. in the pain attack, they kyuubi tried to trick naruto into fully releasing him so he could be free. yeah he doesn’t want naruto to die, but once he had full control he wouldn’t be listening to naruto either. the only level that the kyuubi is cooperating on is that he doesn’t want himself to perish, and in turn naruto’s body.
    ” if it was to kill sasuke/protect Konoha he would.” – once the kyuubi was released the village would be in an even bigger danger. naruto knows this. it was the whole reason for the fourth to implant himself, and the reason yamato was in such a hurry back when he saw 8 tails had already been released.

    “I could (and have already) say the same things about Sasuke though. He DOESN’T have the EMS yet” –
    sasuke DOES have the EMS. madara said it would take a little time to master it, but as illustrated with kakashi, he can use it right after a transplant. it would take a little time to master the new abilities, but he has shown to know a little of suppressing the kyuubi’s chakra, and he is obviously a very quick learner. plus he already knows how to use the normal MS abilities so he would be capable of spamming them. Naruto literally doesn’t know how to control the kyuubi yet. the whole meeting up with the octopus thing told by the toad sage was for the upcoming training about such things.

  88. “sasuke DOES have the EMS”- He hasn’t used it in battle and we have no idea what it will do. All madara said so far could have been a lie (notice Madara himself doesn’t use it?) Until we SEE sasuke use it in battle you can’t say what it will do, which goes back to my point that right now Sasuke is just blind. I get your point about this being a Chunin style match where they both fight at their best, but it is not their best as imagined by you, it is their best shown so far, i.e. in Sasuke’s case how he did against Danzo.

    “but as illustrated with kakashi” I’m not sure what you’re talking about here, he got the EMS AFTER his confrontation with Kakashi.

    “and he is obviously a very quick learner”- and Naruto isn’t??? Just as Sasuke is undergoing training to control the EMS, Naruto has just started training to control the Kyubbi, and in both cases we have no idea what the results of said training will be so we can’t factor them into battle. We don’t even know if “plus he already knows how to use the normal MS abilities so he would be capable of spamming them.” this will be true because EMS could erase these abilities and provide completely different ones.

  89. well idk if i just didn’t read the basis of this tournament before, or if you didn’t put them. i just had my own speculation as to how it worked.

    and no i meant how kakashi, even though he probably should have let his eye rest, used his newly implanted sharingan literally right after the surgery.

    what i meant about the quick learner thing is if sasuke has a working EMS, or even just MS, and he has at one time suppressed the kyuubi’s chakra, he would be able to do it again. even if he had to learn how to do it mid battle. naruto has had the kyuubi his whole life, and has had many battles where he has shown the inability to control it. he literally needs training. about the whole if they fought now thing, naruto clearly wouldn’t know how to control the kyuubi. so both without training, sasuke at least has some ability to suppress it, as naruto does not have the ability to control it yet.

    i doubt the EMS would wipe away the old MS abilities. biologically it consists of two MS abilities. it is logical that it would only add, or enhance. mythologically, the MS abilities are named after, and resemble the essential ancient japanese gods. i don’t think kishi will do away with those, but who knows.

  90. “newly implanted sharingan” but 1. That wasn’t an EMS, clearly Sasuke is wearing the bandages for a reason 2. Obito’s wasn’t blind 3. The processes could be completely different.

    “even if he had to learn how to do it mid battle. naruto has had the kyuubi his whole life, and has had many battles where he has shown the inability to control it.” I disagree. Naruto is able to control it at up to the three tailed state which is far above the level Sasuke was shown surpressing and if Sasuke can learn to surpress it at a higher level, Naruto could learn co-operation at the same level since nessecity is the mother of invention.

  91. i’m sure kakashi should have worn bandages too. he couldn’t cause he had to use it to save his and rin’s life, but sasuke can rest them, and so is obviously going to do so. processes could be different, but they could also not be… all just theories.

    it was necessary for him to learn to do it when hurting sakura, or while nearly going berserk 8-tails, but couldn’t. he needs training. sasuke suppressed the kyuubi chakra with literally no effort, and he was (especially his sharingan) much weaker back then.

  92. “the kyuubi chakra with literally no effort” because there was hardly any chakra! It wasn’t coming out even as cloak yet, I’m not saying it didn’t happen, just that it isn’t all that impressive considering Jiriaya’s seal did a whole lot more to the point where Kakashi chose that over using the sharingan to surpress Naruto. Also you forget that Naruti has also grown in controling the kyubbi. The Kyubbi-Senjutsu showed that he could acheive perfect synchronyzation with the kyubbi if only for a second AND that he could use that synchronyzation to throw off powerful genjutsu. He HAS upgraded as well.

  93. I think you guys are giving the EMS too much credit right now… Remember the First Hokage beat Madara while he had EMS… I would say right now the only new thing is that sasugay won’t go blind Ø.Ø… Having said that I would bet that Kishi will bust a move out his ass to make the EMS more powerful. All Hail the 1st Hokage.

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