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Naruto Grand Tournament Week 4 Voting:

What’s the Naruto Grand Tournament about? Read more here!

Week 3 Winners: Shikamaru, Rock Lee, Neji, Kakuzu, Gaara, Kisame, Killer Bee, Jiraiya

Week 3 results:
Week 2 results:
Week 1 results:
For all characters where possible, assume it’s their part 2 counterpart in the battle. Week 4 voting will close end of day Friday February 12th (you may still vote after wards, but they won’t count towards final tally).

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82 Responses

  1. well all i have to say is i hope everyone picks jiraiya cuz he is definitely the strongest character in the manga besides madara

  2. Finally somebody gets it. 😉
    Jiraiya all the way, no debate necessary, any other vote is just plain, unsubstantiated fandom.
    Oh and by the way I’m a Jiraiya fan, in case nobody knew that. Go Jiraiya. On the other votes I chose Shikamaru, Kakuzu, even though Neji is cooler, Jiraiya…duh, and Gaara the man’s man. Why these picks? more on that later. 8)

  3. Cmon guys I like Shikamaru but he cant defeat Rock Lee. I think Jiraiya will win the tournament but a very close match against Lee hehe.

  4. shikamaru can beat lee easy just by using the shadow sewing or shadow strangle

  5. i voted Lee, cuz he’s to fast for someone as lazy as Shikamaru to catch; Kakuzu, cuz he pwns, Neji thinks he can pwn but instead gets pwned in his battles; Jiraiya, altho that would b the closest match of these 4, so i’m not entirely sure if he’d actually win (no, he is not the strongest character, Pain, Madara, Naruto in SM [see my explanation in the chap discussion, it has a link in it], and Minato if he had SM [which he probably did] r all probably stronger); and finally Kisame cuz he has chakra reserves to match the Kyuubi, while Gaara has the least amount of all Jinchurikin, altho that would b kinda close too

  6. OMFG! Gaara is losing to Kisame?!?

    What are u doing Gaara Fans! VOte for him to strive the competition!! >.<

  7. neji has no skill against kakuzu
    kakuzu has long and close range fighting
    neji is only close range
    I am tried of these OMG gaara has such a shifty life fans

  8. I mean shitty

  9. i’m still trying to figure out how the hell Asuma beat Kabuto….he was such a panzy while kabuto was on kakashi’s level.

  10. how did shino lose as well? lee would beat shikamaru because he’s too fast to be caught by shadow possesion. kakuzu would own neji. if kakuza could fight toe to toe with kakashi and he probably had the beating of him then neji has no chance. jiraiya beats killer bee. no explanation needed. and gaara would probably just beat kisame because earth is stronger than water.

  11. WTF SHIKA LEADS!??!?! people understand one thing, maybe shika is genius, but lee is 10000000 times faster than shika, battle will be over before shika even begins to think strategies

    neji vs kakuzu – jii-san wins pretty obvious
    Jirayia vs KB – same here, J-man dominates ALL!!

    gaara vs kisame – now that is where the fun begins :))) I’ve got my stakes on Gaara here, for a very simple reason, he can use sand to fly, therefore rendering kisame’s greatest trump cards: underwater prison, merging with samehada useless and samehada ITSELF useless, while shark-san has long-range jutsus so does gaara, + gaara also has absolute defense which as far as we have seen can’t be penetrated by anything other than raiton, and what’s kisame’s element again? 😛

  12. also as far as we have seen Kisame’s defence (if he has any) is no match for gaara

  13. @ tm- are you slow, dumb, or retarded??? Shikamaru took down two akatsuki members, all on one of HIS strategies, the only thing correct in your post was that he is a genius, who the hell cares about speed in a battle with someone who can cleverly read attacks and strategize the end of the battle 15 minutes before he even begins….. Shikamaru is the strongest of all the young shinobi in that class set (with the exception of both sasuke and naruto) and will be able to dominate over Lee.

  14. he took down hidan who was a retard and didnt actually take down kakuza just had a hand in 1 of his hearts being destroyed. but the fight with lee would depend on whether he had knowledge about it before hand and could strategise. if he went into the fight and only found out lee was his opponent a second before the fight started then lee would win becuase his pure speed would be too much for shikamaru to handle. you can see in most of his fights that if the opponent is fast then he has a hard time capturing them with shadow possesion, so against lee he’d be screwed. intelligence means little when you can’t keep up with the speed of attacks.

  15. This turned into a popularity contest two weeks ago. I really have nothing to say about it anymore…….

  16. @NaraShikamaru121, it takes a Sharingan or a Byakugan to keep up with Lee, so normal eyes don’t stand a chance….

  17. Pretty much all of my picks were against the grain:
    Lee-beats shikamaru because shadow posesion can be overcome with shear will power and chakra as Gaara showed in the hospital.

    Kisame-beats gaara because he is a jinkuri’s worst nightmare

    Kakuzu because he is just all around strong and can take on several jouunin at once.

    And finnaly: Killer Bee beats Jariya. I know this will be hated on by Jariya fans, but think about it: one of the few times Jariya almost died, it was due to Naruto’s four tailed transformation. KB can do 8-tails with ease. Jariya’s other near death experience is at the hands of Tsunade. There is a pattern here. He is bad against fast and strong Taijutsu because of the time it takes for him to enter senjutsu. He also had several advantages over Naruto that he wouldn’t over KB, namely information on the seals that held in the beast. As shown he was able to surpress the Kyubbi’s chakra, but that was only because he had intimate knowledge of the seal used (he had seen it, looked at the architecture, use it himself to some degree and had even been able to prepare for releasing it)

  18. i think jiraiya got owned by four tails naruto becuase he didnt expect it to be so sudden, plus i’d say that 4 tails naruto is stronger than 8 tails bee. and also when tsunade kicked jiraiya’s ass he wouldnt have wanted to fight back against her same with naruto as well. but if jiraiya set out to kill someone he more than likely would beat them bee included.

  19. I accept the tsunade thing. But full control over the eight tails is weaker than a VERY limited control over a PARTIAL kyubbi? That’s ridiculous. The eight tails has almost as much power as the kyubbi when neither is limited, the proof: both can use Lariat and menacing ball and both follow the same progression. Naruto’s transformation WAS expected as Jariya knew the risks of tampering with the seal and knew that he might release the entire beast. On the other hand, KB is able to transform instantly and Jariya wouldn’t know his level of jinkuri ability, so if four tailed naruto can get the drop on jariya, KB can do it with ease

  20. i didnt say it wasnt expected merely that i’m sure jiraiya was unaware how strong and out of control it would be. plus if jiraiya had Gama summoned i’m sure it could hold its own vs 8 tail for a bit, even suigetsu managed to mess with 8 tails for a bit. then he could activate sage mode and kick the shit outtta bee.

  21. “jiraiya was unaware how strong” the frog scroll warned him right beforehand but he ignorEd it.

    “even suigetsu” suigetsu only lasted as long as it took to charge up a menacing ball, something that would easily kill any frog Jariya could summon. But even if Jariya managed to get into sage mode (avoiding getting owned instantly by lariat magically, even though it’s probably faster than the summoning jutsu needed to summon Bunta or another frog and said frog somehow magically avoided getting owned by Menacing ball) there is still the fact that a full transformation would easily crush SM Jariya with pure chakra.

  22. @Mart1
    We have been over this before, the only reason Jiraiya almost got killed by fourth-tailed Naruto was because Jiraiya wasn’t trying to kill him, he was just trying to suppress the nine tails chakra, which is more complicated than going all out on a fourth tailed Naruto and with Tsunade we all know why he almost died, he wasn’t even putting up a fight no different than Itachi vs Sasuke if you get my drift. Jiraiya would beat Killer Bee, each Tailed Beast offers different abilities, as we all saw during the Orochimaru vs the Fourth Tailed Naruto fight Orochimaru’s Kusanagi Sword couldn’t pierce Naruto’s chakra cloack, and Kusanagi is a legendary weapon in the Narutoverse, but in the Sasuke vs Eight Tailed Beast fight we saw Sasuke easily cut one of Killerbee’s tentacles, when it was going to crush Karin… for all the good it did her. lol

    @JPUA and @Mart1
    Everyone knows Jiraiya wins this tournament hands down and that is not just my fandom talking. I can argue that he is the strongest, to no end, characters like Pain and Itachi don’t just say things to be nice, both have stated that Jiraiya is too strong, in the case of Itachi he said this infront of Kisame and both agreed that even both of them against Jiraiya would probably end in a stalemate at best, you hear that, at best, even if they had more members the result would be the same according to them. In the case of Pain he by his own admission said that Jiraiya would have won if he had known their secret, now why would he say that after no one is hearing? that is Kishi’s way of saying that even though we only saw Jiraiya in one full battle, here died one of the, if not the, strongest characters around. Come on Kisame, Itachi and even Pain knew this, now why don’t you? Heck Itachi and Kisame didn’t know of Sage Mode and already they didn’t want to face him, what does that say about Jiraiya, it says he was already powerful even without Sage Mode, he just didn’t want to risk it against Pain, he went in blindly not knowing his powers. But back to the main point Killerbee doesn’t stand a chance against Jiraiya with or without Sage Mode. You really think Jiraiya is just going to stand their and take a menacing ball? yeah right. Jiraiya Rules competition over. 8)

  23. Alot of this has to do with how the fans feel for the characters , like gara is powerful but you all are making him over rated. Now for Jiraiya, im not gonna lie im a huge fan, dude makes his own porn cmon thats freakin awesome, but I think that John guy above me tells why Jiraiya is a beast, Kisame, one of the strongest People , Itachi prolly the best Ninja when it comes to analyzing his opponents and coming up with plans, prolly better than Shikamaru, and Pein someone that probably wouldve destroyed everyone in the village if he wasnt so set on capturing naruto, all said Jiriaya couldve beat them in battle, now thats exactly why its all gonna come down to him wining this tournament.

  24. how can anybody vote gaara? this is such a popularity contest wow deidara killed gaara pretty easily (not using his trump card) and kisame is much stronger than both of them… gaara doesnt even have a tailed beast anymore he is much weaker while kisame is known as the best without a tail because he is so powerful

  25. @Minatofan
    Thank you. Good to see that there are people who get it and see what this competition is about….Jiraiya. 😉
    You managed to simplify what I meant and got it correctly. Jiraiya rules. 8)

  26. “@Mart1
    We have been over this before, the only reason Jiraiya almost got killed by fourth-tailed Naruto was because Jiraiya wasn’t trying to kill him, he was just trying to suppress the nine tails chakra, which is more complicated than going all out on a fourth tailed Naruto and with Tsunade we all know why he almost died, he wasn’t even putting up a fight no different than Itachi vs Sasuke if you get my drift. Jiraiya would beat Killer Bee, each Tailed Beast offers different abilities, as we all saw during the Orochimaru vs the Fourth Tailed Naruto fight Orochimaru’s Kusanagi Sword couldn’t pierce Naruto’s chakra cloack, and Kusanagi is a legendary weapon in the Narutoverse, but in the Sasuke vs Eight Tailed Beast fight we saw Sasuke easily cut one of Killerbee’s tentacles, when it was going to crush Karin… for all the good it did her. lol”-most of this statement is incorect: 1. Oro.’s sword DID peirce the kyubbi, the kyubbi was just constantly regenerating so Naruto didn’t take any damage. 2. Killer Bee was trying to use a substitution, how could he do this if he didn’t LET sasuke cut off the tails? It was also strateticly smart due to stopping amatseru. Now I’m not saying that the 8-tails has some unique ability that we’ve only seen in the kyubbi, because my point is we’ve seen it use all of the kyubbi’s abilities and more. You bring up Oro. as an example, so will I, it shows how powerfull a four tails would be against a Sanin level ninja. As we know, both ninja survived the 4-tails, but both came close to dying, and oro. definately wasn’t holding back. I like Jariya, but he has nothing in his vast arsenal of jutsu that could survive a lariat (because the only thing he could make in time would be a rasengan.) I think Jariya’s undetermination is out matched by the fact that full eight tailed control beats partial four tailed control anyday.

    Now I like Jariya, he’s a cool guy, and if I was voting on popularity, I would vote for him. But he is not the strongest. As too your testimonials of strength: 1. Itachi, being the tratior he was didn’t want to kill Jariya, because of how it would effect Konoha. I beleive he AND kisame could beat Jariya and will argue that possibly in the next round. Pein stated “if he knew” but that’s one of Jariya’s flaws (his inteligence) and is basically like Pein saying “if he also had a renningan.” my point being that he DIDN’T.

  27. Oh and meant to add:
    “You really think Jiraiya is just going to stand their and take a menacing ball? yeah right. Jiraiya Rules competition over.” well, yes actually. As I said above Lariat (something Jariya has defence for would be used on him) NOT menacing ball, menacing ball would be used on whatever toad he summoned as a distraction while he was forced to stand still (due to senjutsu).

    “Killerbee doesn’t stand a chance against Jiraiya with or without Sage Mode.” look at it this way: offensively jariya has nothing that can penetrate the chakra cloak at KB’s level. Deffensively jariya has nothing to beat Lariat or Menacing Ball (as said to have been used above).

    Another point: if you look at the episode where Jariya talks about almost dying, he clearly got hit by a four tailed lariat.

  28. Oh and while you argue that jariya might have held back, I could argue that Naruto, not Jariya could have been the one to overcome the four-tails after hurtting Jariya severly. We don’t know what happened exactly so you can’t claim anything either way.

  29. @NaraShikamaru121
    @ tm- are you slow, dumb, or retarded??? Shikamaru took down two akatsuki member

    ok first of all I would appreciateif you quit insulting me, if you won’t to argue with me adress me properly if you will, I think my post should suffice so calling names won’t chang my opinion, idiot, oh and 2? who’s the 2nd might I ask?
    ——————————————————

    @gaara
    “stronger” is a very difficult to define in naruto world, it’s based on their abilities, chakra nature, etc. that’s why I think kisame loses to gaara

  30. by the way, it really is popularity contest, hinata wins against haku (lol), asuma beats kabuto (O_o), suigetsu beats zabuza (eeeh?!), danzo beats Oro (wtf? people Oro is virtually immortal in combat, see Oro vs 4tailed naruto, while danzo’s izanagi is limited, + danzo is old)

  31. TM: I agree about Lee vs. Shika, and most of what you said about this being a popularity contest (I truely think Suigetsu and Danzo deserved their wins)

    HOWEVER: I think Kisame would win based on a few things: 1. Kisame is a chakra absorber (the most powerfull one too date as well) which is strong against Bijju. 2. As we have seen, Gaara controls his Sand by filling it with chakra, and without his chakra it is useless, and Kisame can use this to absorb chakra even at long range. In Fact, Gaara faught a chakra absorber in a filler arc and this same thing happened. 3. ” for a very simple reason, he can use sand to fly” Do you really think Gaara can out fly a jutsu of this range: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/471/17/ it’s literally the size of mountains and it later grows. 4. “gaara also has absolute defense which as far as we have seen can’t be penetrated by anything other than raiton, and what’s kisame’s element again?” actually we have seen Gaara’s absolute deffence penetrated by several other things, let’s recap: Lee’s fist, Naruto’s clones, and Deidara’s bombs. it’s not exactly absolute. Plus he still needs oxygen to breathe, if he tries to surround himself with sand for protection, he will just get drowned by Kisame.

  32. Kisame sword does absorb chakra but we also know that his sword will leave him based on the chakra he is absorbing, thats why he had limitless chakra, whose to say that the sword might like Jiraiyas sage mode and go to him giving him limitless power. All though if he did take a liking to sage mode chakra the sword would just turn into a frog after absorbing to much. I just want to say this about Kabuto and Asuma, I agree that Asuma could beat Kabuto, Kabuto held his own and I think if he knew the zomby brothers tricks he wouldnt have died, Kakashi couldnt even take on them, so why dish Asuma he was a bad ass

  33. I have a question for mart, Minato signed a contract with the frogs, so is it safe to say he has sage mode abilities? I mean everyone we know of so far that has a contract with the frogs had sage mode training. just wondering what do you think?

  34. @mart1 nope lee’s fist and naruto clones never penetrated absoulte defence, it penetrated sand armor, not ABSOLUTE DEFENCE – the sphere he creates with sand, it is impossible to be penetrated, deidara used stealth to do it (not exactly kisame’s amplua). about absorbing chakra – again gaara will just fly and get out of range.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/471/17/ of course he can’t outfly this range but he just won’t give kisame enough time to do handseals, simple, so imo gaara is still a victor.

    oh honestly who cares?! c’mon Ero-sennin beat them ALL!!! XD

  35. @minatofan Ero-sennin also had signed the contract but his sage mode was never perfected, he just wasn’t strong enough for SAGE MODE IN PARTICULAR, I think it was the same case with minato, I think fukasaku would mention to naruto that 4th hokage had mastered sage mode to further motivate him.

    P.S. I know you asked this question to mart1 but I believe my response won’t hurt 😛

  36. Shikamaru v. Rock Lee; Shikamaru because with an IQ of 200, you can EASILY outsmart a taijutsu ninja, especially one like Lee. (Sorry about this description. It isn’t very informing.)

    Neji v. Kakuzu; Kakuzu because he has a WIDE range of Jutsu (Because of his extra hearts.) With his range of Jutsu, he could easily overpower Neji. He could just keep Neji att bay with long range attacks, making his Gentle Fist useless.

    Killer Bee v. Jiraiya; Jiraiya because Jiraiya’s Rasengan could get through Bee’s Jinchuriki Chakra Shield. He could also drown Bee with his Earth Release: Swamp of the Underworld. He could trap Bee with his Toad Mouth Bind or by summoning a Toad just above Bee.

    Gaara v. Kisame; Kisame because, quite frankly, Kisame has had much more experience in battles. Kisame was 30 odd years old, while Gaara is only in his teens. He could also drown Gaara with his Exploding Water Shockwave Jutsu. He could make Samehada absorb Gaara’s Chakra.

  37. Minatofan: first, I’m not arguing kisame vs. Jariya yet, next week… Second, too your question, the answer is based on how many assumptions you care to make. As TM stated, it’s possible he didn’t learn it or master it so it wouldn’t be guarentteed by the summoning jutsu. However, with a few small leaps it is quite logical to think he had it: 1. All of the toads respected him and his outfit was similar to sage naruto. 2. He mastered the summoning jutsu to the point of FTG 3. He was incredibly fast 4. He was noted to have high chakras, something essential to senjutsu. However he did die young and was worse than Naruto as Naruto was said to be the best.

  38. Tm:
    1. “lee’s fist and naruto clones never penetrated absoulte defence”: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/83/01/ Gaara’s whole stlye is considered an absolute defence not just one jutsu. Even still, He could just drown him within the sand sphere or cut through it with his sword (remember if he removes all the chakra Gaara can’t manipulate the sand).

    2. “but he just won’t give kisame enough time to do handseals, simple, so imo gaara is still a victor.” How? 1. Gaara isn’t especially fast 2. His sand is useless because any attack will just fail like this one: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/470/11/ because Kisame can absorb chakra directly from the Sand.

    3. “his sword will leave him” (said by minato fan) 1. He was shown to be able to absorb up to four tails of bijju chakra. 2. It liked KB’s chakra, but I doubt it would like eating sand chakra enough to leave Kisame due to it’s water nature

    4. “about absorbing chakra – again gaara will just fly and get out of range.” As stated above, Kisame can absorb chakra directly from the sand. meaning he could absorb Gaara’s attacks until Gaara lacks the stamina to continue. Furthermore, he could use water jutsu to launch himself to Gaara’s level and then cut through the defenses with ease by absorbing the chakra within the sand.

    5. “oh honestly who cares?! c’mon Ero-sennin beat them ALL!!! XD” just starting a discusion (which is the purpose of this whole thing) and giving you a chance to defend you position. It’s better than being called stupid for no reason right?

  39. please dont vote gaara…. it wouldnt be right because you are only voting for him because you think he is cool >< i agree with tm

  40. @mart1
    “Pein stated “if he knew” but that’s one of Jariya’s flaws (his inteligence) and is basically like Pein saying “if he also had a renningan.” my point being that he DIDN’T.”

    Think about it like this, if you were in a fight with three guys, you know there are three guys, you beat them up and you walk away, you get jumped by three more guys from behind, you get your arm amputated the hard way how is that your fault? you had won, you got ambushed after you though their was no one else and got beat up, you think the Six guys that beat you up deserve bragging rights, no, even they know that, they know that if they had all fought you at once, they would have lost, just like Pain knew that he would lose against Jiraiya. How is Jiraiya’s lack of knowledge about Pain’s six bodies any indication that he lacks intelligence, hell, even Pain’s own village and Akatsuki probably didn’t know. All I’m saying is, had Jiraiya had prior knowledge of their numbers, meaning Pain’s bodies, he would have planned accordingly and killed them of one by one, on that note, Jiraiya wasn’t even damaged after facing three Pain’s he was making light talk with his Ma and Pa frogs. Jiraiya may come of as an idiot to people, but he is very intelligent and knowledgeable, at least look at the stats, Kishi didn’t just post character stats for no reason a 4.5 out of 5 in intelligence, how is that a weakeness. Now, I get what you are saying, Itachi didn’t really want to fight Jiraiya, since Itachi was still loyal to the village, but then think about it this way, Itachi could have said a number of things, to Kisame, about the time not being right, too many people, Akatsuki should be more covert etc… but he chose to tell him the truth, that he didn’t want to face Jiraiya in battle, since the very best they could have done was a draw, even if they had more people, I’m pretty sure Itachi has his pride, but even Kisame agreed with Itachi, now why would Kisame, who has no love for Konoha, say that Jiraiya was on a whole other level? Kisame the Bijuu without a tail, that’s because he recognizes Jiraiya’s power. It stands to reason that Jiraiya has a wide variety of jutsu to deal with Killerbee, Jiraiya is no slowpoke and his strength, even without Sage Mode is really high, just look at the stats, Sage Mode just makes him into the perfect ninja, stats wise. So it stands to reason that Jiraiya has won this tournament, what more evidence is needed, I know stats don’t mean everything just look at Naruto right, well here’s an inside secret……………………………………………………………………………. he’s the main character and therefore can’t die. lol
    Anyways Jiraiya Rules, peace out. 8)

  41. “Pain’s he was making light talk with his Ma and Pa frogs”-That’s my statement of inteligence: He was making small talk in an ENEMY VILLAGE after he KNEW he was detected by the enemy? That’s REAL inteligent… PLUS he droped his guard enough that he didn’t sense them with Senjutsu?

    “Itachi could have said a number of things, to Kisame”-Kisame is a blood thirsty savage. Itachi said the thing he thought would best neutralize Kisame. Whether it was the truth is debatable.

    “It stands to reason that Jiraiya has a wide variety of jutsu to deal with Killerbee, Jiraiya is no slowpoke and his strength, even without Sage Mode is really high,”-1. I’m not saying Jariya is slow, I’m just saying KB is MUCH faster. He is able to match his brother’s speed (which was compared to FTG) and move faster than the human eye can see. 2. saying “jariya probably knows” doesn’t really mean anything. For instance I can say KB probably knows an instant super jutsu that kills everyone with 100% accuracy no matter what the defence (obviously exagerated).

    So what I ask of you is WHAT jutsu would he use? Lariat is instant death to anything that uses handseals. Jariya has NOTHING that can beat it.

  42. @walmart1
    Earth Style: Dark Swamp- Killer Bee can’t use lariat, is his feet are stuck in this jutsu.
    Rasengan-Jiraiya can create it instantly, clashing it into Killer Bee’s Face, suddenly Lariat isn’t so deadly, huh? No handseals required. lol
    Ninja Art: Wild Lion Mane- Jiraiya’s hairline can cover a wide range, serves as an offensive and defensive jutsu, you saw what it did to Pain’s Crab-like summon, and best of all doesn’t require handseals, Jiraiya just stomps his foot.
    There is no proof that Killer Bee matches his brothers speed, the Raikage’s, Killer Bee just mentions that the Raikage can block his attack, the fact that Sasuke can’t keep up with his speed, that’s his fault. Also, no where in the manga does it say that the Raikage’s speed is comparable to FTG, it just say’s he was as fast as the Fourth Hokage, it doesn’t say anything about it matching FTG. FTG is a reverse summoning jutsu, instant, not speed like the Raikage’s.
    That statement about not being able to sense their presence, you forget that Jiraiya had not mastered Sage Mode completely, even Naruto who supposedly mastered Sage Mode had to stab himself to sense Nagato’s presence, I could also argue that Pain’s bodies don’t radiate any chakra themselves, they just get chakra from another source and use it, just like you argue that Jiraiya let his guard down and didn’t sense them. It stands to reason that after you face a Rinnegan user and the Leader of Akatsuki and kill them, nothing phases you, he’s dead how can anyone else be a threat, plus he really wasn’t making small talk, tha’s just a figure of speech, he was asking Ma and Pa if they were alright out of concern, just like any decent human being would, that’s when Pain struck severing his arm and even then he took out at least one Pain even while bleeding out. Killer Bee’s fighting style is limited, Lariat may be fast and powerful, but its too linear in it’s movement, even his eight tails Transformation has been dealt with by Sasuke and Kisame, you would think the Eight Tails would cream them all. I maintain my original argument, as I’m sure you will maintain your own, in my argument that Jiraiya is more than a match for Itachi and Kisame, we need more evidence or different opinions or perspectives, but I believe Jiraya can deal with Killer Bee easily enough, either way, Jiraiya win’s this round, unlees theirs some voting tampering. LOL……….. Peace Out.
    Jiraiya Rules 8)

  43. “Earth Style: Dark Swamp- Killer Bee can’t use lariat, is his feet are stuck in this jutsu.” this take a shit load of hand seals. Lariat would kill jariya long before he used it. Also he has the Full transformation if he did get caught in it. KB would win.

    “Rasengan-Jiraiya can create it instantly, clashing it into Killer Bee’s Face, suddenly Lariat isn’t so deadly, huh? No handseals required. lol” I mentioned this earlier. Rasengan IS one of the few techniques Jariya could pull off before being hit. However I say so what? The chakra cloak can easily regenerate whatever gets damaged by the hit and in turn Jariya is dead. KB wins again.

    “There is no proof that Killer Bee matches his brothers speed” Two words double lariat… On the FTG thing. It talks about him being able to match the speed of ftg with the speed of his movements (I’ll find it for you tommarow)
    Though it does say ALMOST match…
    “Ninja Art: Wild Lion Mane”- along with my arguement about Lariat’s protection meaning KB could just take the hit in order to kill Jariya, this jutsu has been shown to be pentrable and is still much slower than Lariat.

    “Lariat may be fast and powerful, but its too linear in it’s movement, even his eight tails Transformation has been dealt with by Sasuke and Kisame”- Kisame and Sasuke had specific defenses against Lariat that were almost a perfect counter (sharingan and chakra absorption respectively) both of which required no hand seals. Jariya isn’t as lucky, because as kisame showed, start relying on hand seals and your dead.

    On Jariya’s mistake 1. The Pein bodies have chakra and are sensable, only Nagato was cloaked 2. Even if you take out the leader it doesn’t mean the henchmen (like Konhnan) are gone. Not accounting for them is a stupid mistake. 3. He should still have been suspicious because he never saw Nagato himself. 4. His sage mode may not be as powerfull as Naruto’s but it still has the same basic effects, if Naruto can sense the entire village, Jariya can sense several feet.

    On the jariya winning thing: I knew it would happen for the simple reason that most people vote before reading the comments or analyzing the contestants jutsu and vote more on popularity and cumulative strength.

  44. I think Jiraiya was very powerful and had to die so Naruto could grow, Someone said that Itachi was just sayin he didnt wanna fight Jiriaya cause he still loved the villege , however he was about to kill Kakashi and even tempted to abduct him after Kakashi told Itachi he knew the truth about Akatski, meaning that if he coulda beat Jiraiya he wouldve fault him, when he talking about not wanting to face Jiraiya he knew him and Kisame would both get beat, or everyone die at best. Hey everyone I just wanted to say this, KBs brother pwned Sasuke with his speed, so that makes me think Minato could own sasuke since hes just as fast and has some pretty powerful jutsu’s

  45. @Minatofan
    True. He even ordered Kisame to get rid of Asuma and Kurenai and take Kakashi, now I ask myself did he do that to send a message to Danzo and the elders? his presence should have been enough right? If he could have, he would have fought Jiraiya, with Kisames help, but he knew they did not have what it takes to beat him, his main goal in hindsight was to remind Sasuke of his avenger duties, to hate him, to kill him, to one day take him down. So Itachi did not want to risk fighting Jiraiya knowing it would end in his death, as a result, his goal to have Sasuke kill him would end. The fact is Jiraiya would and could beat Itachi and Kisame, glad to see you agree. 😉

    @mart1
    You assume Killer Bee would take the damage, without suffering the consequences, you also assume his chakra cloak has regenerative properties like Naruto’s. Just because a Jutsu requires hand seals, that doesn’t mean it will be slow to take effect, just because Kisame got decapitated, for being to slow with his jutsu, doesn’t mean Jiraiya will, and besides, Kisame had his attention divided between Bee and the Raikage hindering him further and as Kisame said Jiraiya is at a “whole other level”, as I said before if you just beat the Leader of Akatsuki, a Rinnegan user, the henchmen are of no consequence, whose to say he wasn’t aware of the henchmen?, he could handle them, Jiraiya thought he killed Nagato, he though Nagato was the Pain that did the summoning jutsus, it wasn’t until after he got his arm severed that he realized that that wasn’t Nagato, after seeing the scar on the forehead of that summoning Pain did he realize that it was a ninja he had faced a very long time ago. Now how in the world was he supposed to know that that wasn’t Nagato, just how many Rinnegan users are there, hell even we as readers thought that was Nagato, who else would have the Rinnegan? Pain knew he would have lost if he had not kept his other bodies hidden, by his own admission, he would not have won a straight up fight. As Minatofan pointed out, Jiraiya had to die in order for the story to progress. You say the reason Jiraiya is winning is because it is all based on popularity right, well think about it this way, strength and power are some of the factors fans analyze before choosing their favorite characters, as well as attitude and coolness and so on, that’s why characters such as, Ten Ten, don’t have any fans as far as I know of, she lacks all those characteristics, but Jiraiya has them in spades more so than Killer Bee, it just so happens that people like Jiraiya because he is immensely powerful and he has an interesting personality and mentality, who says people don’t analyze his strength? who says they don’t consider their strengths before voting? either for Jiraiya or Bee. I may be a Jiraiya fan, but I back up the reasons I believe he is the strongest and try to prove it using facts, just like you believe Bee is stronger and try to back it up. Are you a Bee fan? If you are, your just doing the same as me, trying to prove something with facts that are open to interpretation, you think Bee could beat Pain or Itachi or Itachi tagged with Kisame, to what extent do you believe his power reach. As with all character debates, facts are open to interpretation, its just my interpretation is different than yours and vise-versa, just as other people’s opinions are different. And that’s the reason Jiraiya is winning, it just so happens people believe Jiraiya is stronger, I just state the reasons why we believe so, since our interpretations of the facts point this out.
    Peace out………………………… Jiraiya Rules! 8)

  46. Just wanna say this, Jiraiya is a badass, and along with Minato he’s one of my favorites, but who is thee greatest ninja in Naruto, and if your wondering how you get the greatest ninja ever in naruto, you comebine, Physical strenth, Power, and Intelligence. So who do you all think fits that Category?

  47. @mart1
    5. “oh honestly who cares?! c’mon Ero-sennin beat them ALL!!! XD” just starting a discusion (which is the purpose of this whole thing) and giving you a chance to defend you position. It’s better than being called stupid for no reason right?

    really didn’t get you mean? do you want to say that I am trying to sway discussion another way? O_o LOLZ I just joked

  48. mart1 disregard my previous comment, I got what you said 😛

  49. On Rasengan: “his chakra cloak has regenerative”- the chakra cloak by it’s very nature is regenerative. It fills his cells with chakra which allows them to regrow at an insane rate, thus the healing. Thererfore he could take the rasengan with limited negative consequence.

    On swamp of the underworld: 1. Jariya isn’t a whole lot faster than Kisame (4->4.5) althogh his sealing is better (3->4.5) this only effects the average # of hand signs needed for a jutsu. Kisame managed 1 and swamp is two. 2. KB is lightning element so he could slice his way out of the mud with his lightning swords. 3. Swamp jutsu wasn’t enough to contain snakes smaller than Manda and 8-tails is the same size.

    On Jariya’s mistake: whatever the reason, he still let his guard down as did his allies. Jariya is a strong Ninja, but he is not 1. The most powerfull 2. Infailable (eg. People below his level like KB could beat him because of specific weaknesses) 3. I will argue next week about Kisame vs. Jariya, but since we’ve pretty much exhausted KB vs. J, I will argue this week if you want that Itachi could beat Jariya.

  50. killer bee shouldnt have even got this far in the contest to begin with, how he beat raikage is beyond me. i doubt jiraiya would even get hit by bee in a fight. in the two fights he has been shown in bee has not showed anything that i feel could beat jiraiya, he’s too straightforward with his attacks. i doubt jiraiya would even need to bother with sage mode. and to be honest bee is lucky to be alive in both fights he was beaten.

    and the earlier post that suggested minato might have sage mode i doubt it. for starters the ninja world war was going on as he was growing up and then fighting in it so i doubt he’s have time. and it doesnt seem like a technique he’d even particularly need, he was fast enough anyway.

  51. “bee is lucky to be alive in both fights he was beaten.” I feel like Bee is like what naruto would be if he didn’t have character sheild

  52. @mart1
    I will argue that Jiraiya could beat Itachi, they are basically the same stats wise, but Jiraiya has more strength, battle experience, and way more stamina, they are nearly identical in all other stats, except in the Genjutsu department, where Itachi’s stats beat Jiraiya’s, but I could argue that at least Jiraiya knows how to dispel Genjutsu, as he was proficient enough to teach Naruto how to dispel Genjutsu as well. The method he taught him was to stop his chakra flow and then increase your chakra flow what it all come down to is that all of Itachi’s powerful techniques carry a very dangerous risk to his health, while Jiraiya’s don’t, Jiraiya has way more endurance and aside from having the elemental advantage Fire and Earth vs Itachi’s Fire and Water, Jiraiya has a wide variety of miscellenous Ninja Arts, Toad Mouth Trap, which took Amaterasu to escape, summonings and so on. Itachi’s trump card Susanno is also his greatest weakness, as we saw Susanno isn’t infallible, his use is life threatening, all Jiraiya has to do is bombard him with Fire and Earth Style jutsus until Itachi, succumbs to Susanno’s deadly cost. The thing is even though Itachi is a very cool character and one of my favorites as well, he and Kisame can’t beat Jiraiya even by their own admission, any other reason of why they didn’t want to fight is just speculation, unless you can find any text in the Manga or evidence in the Anime that proves other wise I’m sticking with that half confession. I don’t know what you mean by specific weaknesses? aside from his perviness, I don’t think he has any specific ones. And just like Naruto has character shield, Jiraiya had character handicap, he had to die for Naruto to grow and develope, as well as, before Madara declared the 4th Great Ninja War, if not Jiraiya would have been fighting and that would have been a short war. LOL 8)

    @Danny
    Thank you for seeing the point I was trying to make, Killer Bee is a powerful Ninja, it’s just his style is to limited and Jiraiya not only has diversity in his jutsu, but I believe Jiraiya is smarter than Killer Bee and way more powerful, by a whole lot, no Sage Mode necessasy. 😉

  53. “Jiraiya knows how to dispel Genjutsu”-As stated by Sasuke and his #1 fan boy madara, it takes a sharingan to dispell Tsukyoumi (the only genjutsu Itachi would use). Jariya’s gen. Stat is his lowest and I veiw this as one of his specific weaknesses. Some might argue that sage mode stops genjutsu due to it’s perceptive abilities but as you Didn’t put much faith in this against pein… Finnally Itachi was able to own one Sanin with Genjutsu, why not go for another.

    “Susanno isn’t infallible”- I think it’s important to destinguish between Sasuke’s Sussano and Itachi’s as they are clearly different. While Sasuke’s Sussano is easily failable (Danzo was able to partially destroy it) due to the Yammata’s mirror, Itachi was able to withstand Kirin and Oro.’s strongest attacks. If it can take those, what does Jariya have that they don’t? Another important difference is it’s offensive abilities. Sasuke’s bow is a lot worse than Itachi’s sword. Why? Because of it’s sealing powers. I think Jariya would get owned by this just as easily as Oro.

    “aside from having the elemental advantage Fire and Earth vs Itachi’s Fire and Water, Jiraiya has a wide variety of miscellenous Ninja Arts, Toad Mouth Trap, which took Amaterasu to escape,” 1. Jariya’s earth beats water (1 point jariya), Itachi’s Water beats Jariya’s fire (1 point Itachi), Itachi’s fire = Jariya’s Earth (no advantage) and Itachi’s fire (amatseru) out burns Jariya’s (1 point Itachi) so Itachi actually has an element advantage if there is one. I’m not to concerned with this however because Itachi doesn’t use large scale element jutsu. On Jariya’s random jutsu: Itachi has the sharingan as well as his own random jutsu (like his skill with clones) and by your own admision, your example jutsu was beaten by Itachi.

  54. Oh and on the Jariya was handicapped. I ask you. Was he more handicapped than Itachi or Oro. Who both had to die for Sasuke’s growth?Jariya faught the fight he was given as did Oro. and Itachi. All three lost…

  55. @mart1
    What makes, Jiraiya immune to genjutsu in Sage mode is not it’s perceptive properties, but its constant Natural chakra flow which make it impossible for Itachi to cast any genjutsu, since Itachi can’t control Natural chakra, it just too much, its the same as with the Raikage’s Raiton Jutsu which covered his body, it stimulated his synaptic nerve making him immune to genjutsu and its the same with Bee who used his tailed beast as to disrupt Sasukes Tsukuyomi, disproving that it takes a Sharingan to counter Tsukuyomi, Sage Mode serves as an external source of chakra, using nature as his source Jiraiya can disrupt Tsukuyomi. Just because Oro gets owned doesn’t mean Jiraiya will, Jiraiya would have owned Oro if he did not care about him, same as if Naruto were to face Sasuke right now, Sasuke wouldn’t give a shit about Naruto and he would go all out for the kill, just like Oro would go against Jiraiya, both Naruto and Jiraiya would hold back not wanting to kill them, think about that. Also think about how, Oro does not have the same chakra level as Jiraiya’s or the same skills. Granted Itachi has the Yammata Mirror and Tetsuka’s sword, but as we saw Yammata’s Mirror doesn’t really reflect anything it just blocks the attack, how do you block sinking into an Earth Swamp, as we saw Itachi is not that mobile when he has Susanno, hell, just having him out is killing him at a rapid pace, just because Oro was too stupid or too over confident to dodge Itachi’s sword doesn’t mean Jiraiya is, you also want to know what else Jiraiya has, he has a Rasengan the size of Goku’s Spirit Bomb, or incase your not Familiar with DBZ, a massive Sage Tech Rasengan, that could wipe out a village. lol, not to mention his other jutsu get a huge power boost, to the point that they overcome any dissadvantage his fire would have to water, not to mention he is a master a collaboration jutsus, using oil as an accelarent to further increase the power of his fire techniches, that comment about Itachi’s Amaterasu beating Toad Mouth Trap, think about this, it takes an Amaterasu to beat Toad Mouth Trap, just how many time do you think Itachi can use Amaterasu before going blind, Jiraiya could just keep using different esophagus from different toads, while Itachi only has only one eye that produces Amaterasu and even if it were to hit Jiraiya, which is not likely, Sage Mode also has healing abilities and offers enhanced protection(Note, I did not say regenarative) giving Jiraiya a chance to seal Amaterasus flame. So much for Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu FAIL against Jiraiya. Now for Susanoo, just having him out is going to kill Itachi, it will suck him dry, Jiraiya would just get him stuck to the floor Earth Swamp, assault him with jutsu like crazy, basically, use it as a practice dummy, and even if itachi doesn’t get damaged, the strain of having Susanno will either force him to dispel Susanno or he will die, its as simple as that, since that is Susanoo’s main draw back.
    On the Sasuke’s growth comment, let me just point out that no one had to die for Sasuke to grow, Oro died, not for Sasuke’s sake, but because he was way in over his head, trying to face Itachi, let me also point out that it was Sasuke who was hell bent on his vendetta and therefore to stupid to find out the truth about what really happened that night his family died and it’s underlying reasons, he was responsible for his brothers death and he blames others for it, Jiraiya on the other hand had to die, he was Naruto’s closest bond, in Jiraiya’s death Naruto understood Sasuke’s pain an important aspect for his growth, had Itachi lived Sasuke could have still kept growing in his pursuit for Itachi on the other hand Jiraiya had to die for Naruto to experience true pain. See the difference, Jiraiya was doomed from the moment he thought of Naruto as a son. Jiraiya pawns everyone enough said. Peaceout. Jiraiya Rules. 8)

  56. “you think the Six guys that beat you up deserve bragging rights, no, even they know that, they know that if they had all fought you at once, they would have lost,” think of it like this. How hard would it be to fight three guys if one of them could only punch, one could only throw things (summons) and one could only block? Not pretty hard. Each pain is only one-sixth of a whole, so beating individual members when they aren’t working together isn’t a testament to how strong you are, its a testament to how useless the individual bodies are. Jiraiya lost to one jutsu and a ninja that was overall better than him.

  57. “What makes, Jiraiya immune to genjutsu in Sage mode is not it’s perceptive properties, but its constant Natural chakra flow ” and “Sage Mode also has healing abilities and offers enhanced protection(Note, I did not say regenarative)”- nope, this is what we know of NARUTO’S PERFECT Sage Mode, not Jiraiya’s. For all we know, that strength of Sage Mode could have been what he lacked.

    “Raikage’s Raiton Jutsu which covered his body, it stimulated his synaptic nerve making him immune to genjutsu’ he didn’t become immune, he moved so fast that he COULDN’T get caught in a genjutsu, i.e Sharingan couldn’t keep up an entrap him.

    “Just because Oro gets owned doesn’t mean Jiraiya will, Jiraiya would have owned Oro if he did not care about him” well since ur using the stats, I’d argue that their stats are so similar that if Susanoo caught Oro (who had 5 in Genjutsu), then it should easily get Jiraiya (who had only a 3 in Genjutsu).

    “not to mention his other jutsu get a huge power boost, to the point that they overcome any dissadvantage his fire would have to water” perhaps it would lose its weakness against fire, but Amaterasu would completely burn it away

    Orochimaru died because if he lived he would have taken Sasuke’s body, and Sasuke at the time wasnt a match for either Itachi or Orochimaru. Jiraiya died because he wasn’t strong enough to beat AKATSUKI’S leader.
    Pain rulez………………..End of story lol

  58. errrr peins dead so he doesnt rule that much. lol. joking aside though i’d say that jiraiya was the 3rd strongest chracter after pein and itachi. but he is the far cooler than both of them, itachi was a bit too emo and pein was just an extremely extremely dull character, he was a boring fighter and didnt really have a great personality so i didnt care when he died. of course people like hashirama, minato, madara and hiruzen in his youth would probably have been able to beat all three of them although there is no proof to any of this.

  59. @John: I agree with Kisu. for the most part. But I think he meant Tsukyoumi when he said ” that if Susanoo caught Oro…”

    Also to add:

    “its constant Natural chakra flow which make it impossible for Itachi” 1. Itachi could hit Jariya long before he makes it into sage more (Tsukyoumi is basically Itachi’s starter move) 2. Natural Chakra is OUTSIDE the body. It wouldn’t stop Itachi from affecting the central chakra network, just increase Jariya’s chakra supply. 3. Itachi doesn’t need to control the sage chakra, just inject his own, it’s not like Itachi would feel the effects of Sage Chakra… 4. Large amounts of chakra don’t really help prevent Genjutsu as you seem to be implying (actually the people with larger chakra supplies have lower genjutsu stats because they rely on chakra control much less)

    “Bee who used his tailed beast as to disrupt Sasukes Tsukuyomi” Sasuke used an unnamed genjutsu on KB not Tsukyoumi, and his version is signifigantly weaker than Itachi’s anyways. Finnally, he has a partner constantly in contact with him to disrupt his chakra while Jariya does not. (In Sage mode he has Ma and Pa, but as I said, Tsukyoumi is basically Itachi’s opening move, and against Jariya he isn’t going to fuck around)

    “how do you block sinking into an Earth Swamp”-Well he could always point the Sheild down so that it stops him from sinking in, basically like a mini-boat. Another option is to remove Sussano so he can dodge it (It can be established and taken down in an instant as shown when he blocked Kirin)

    “a massive Sage Tech Rasengan, that could wipe out a village”-Not really… the Sage Rasengan was only about twice the size of the Odama Rasengan and wasn’t shown to have all that great of an effect (As seen when Naruto attacked Pein’s summons because the only sage Rasengan Jariya used was absorbed by Pein)

    “Jiraiya could just keep using different esophagus from different toads”-Jariya noted that THAT esophagus was from a specific toad with specific abilities, and was his strongest in that feild. Gamabunta for instance wouldn’t make a good summon for that technique. It was also a rather large summon and not something Jariya could do multiple times even if there were more of those toads. Also Jariya isn’t the type of person to sacrifice his allies for no reason, especially multiple times…

    “just because Oro was too stupid or too over confident to dodge Itachi’s sword doesn’t mean Jiraiya is”-Oro. spent a good degree of his life looking for that sword. If he can’t recognize it how would Jariya? Jariya isn’t precogniscent, he wouldn’t know of it’s effects until too late. He would dodge as Oro. did, and think “he only scratched me” until it was too late.

    “Oro died, not for Sasuke’s sake”- Itachi killed Oro. SPECIFICALLY for Sasuke’s sake, SPECIFICALLY so that Sasuke would stop relying on him and CS and actually grow. However, what I was refering to was when Sasuke beat him with the Sharingan. Again “had Itachi lived Sasuke could have still kept growing in his pursuit for Itachi” Itachi had to die so that Sasuke could meet his next villan (Madara). Sasuke’s massive growth in the chapters since Itachi’s death COULD NOT have been accomplished without Itachi dying. Sasuke would be exactly as he was before, which is a possibility, but doesn’t move the plot along.

    @Danny:
    “errrr peins dead so he doesnt rule that much”- Aren’t all the strongest characters dead???

  60. @kisu
    You forget that each of Pains bodies could all use taijutsu quite effectively, so that thing were each of them had only one technique and therefore easy to beat is a load of crap, not to mention that those specific individual techniques that they did posses were down right broken, unlimited summoning, chakra absorption, soul removal, infinite revivals, a miniature robot and gravity manipulation, you call those shabby techniques? I don’t know if you realize it, but you practically laid a put down on Pain.lol Another thing, they had a wide field of vision, due to their shared vision, they could coordinate their attacks flawlessly, its a big accomplishment on Jiraiya’s part to overcome that flawless coordination, hell, Kakashi along with Choji and Choji’s Dad had trouble facing two bodies. The difference between Jiraiya’s Sage Mode and Naruto’s was a minor one, what made Jiraiya’s Sage Mode imperfect was that he required Ma and Pa’s help, while Naruto did not, I could argue that the presense of those two Sage’s increased the number of jutsu in his arsenal giving him more possibilities and ways of attacking. Damn, I have to go I’ll continue later, I’m not with this……. oh and Pain doesn’t rule, Jiraiya Rules 8)

  61. “Jiraiya’s Sage Mode imperfect” it also had imperfections in his appearance (he started to turn into a frog) but my oppinion on this would be that he would have the same basic abilities: increased strength, speed, chakra restoration/increase, and chakra sensing. As for his limits, here is my oppinion: Jariya is already fairly competent in strength and speed, though even with Sage mode he can’t compeat with the greats like Raikage, Killer Bee, and Minato in speed. I will say he is almost equal to Sage mode Naruto because they are using the same jutsu, but I still think not quite. (look at his reaction time against Pein vs. the distance Naruto was able to cover in a second against Pein) The chakra restoration is nice, but it isn’t a major factor of senjutsu, it can’t do things like what the chakra cloak can ex. regenerate damaged body parts so all it really does is increase stamina. Chakra sensing: I think this is the real debate.. I would say Jariya’s was MUCH worse than Naruto’s due to the fact that he was unable to sense Pein instinctually (he could but had to use a jutsu outside of Sage mode, while Naruto could sense everyone in the village)

  62. its a fact that jiraiya’s sage mode was worse than naruto’s so there is no debate about it at all.

  63. @kisu
    Now to continue were I left of….so in reality Jiraiya was not just facing useless bodies, he was facing bodies who had powerful techniques, I could argue that each body in itself is of a Jonin level or higher, take also into account that most ninja basically just really make use of one technique, like the Byakugan, Sharingan, Shikamaru’s Shadow Possesion Jutsu are examples of what I mean, they are all techniques and use jutsu based on those techniques, not all that different from the bodies Pain used. So no Pain doesn’t rule to the extent you say, he was cool and all, a real bad ass, but he knew he would lose in a straight up fight, he admitted it, now why can’t you? If you say Jiraiya is weaker because he died after facing Pain, then it’s like saying Naruto is stronger that Pain because Nagato/Pain died after facing him, psychological warfare is still a method of winning, but we all know your position on Naruto beating Pain, its a load of crap and I agree, so don’t say just because Jiraiya died it means he’s weaker than Pain, it’s like calling Itachi super weak for dying against Sasuke and we all know that’s crap. The thing with arguing if Tsukuyomi would affect Jiraiya is that its all speculation, we do not know what would really happen, I could say one thing and you could say another, and we could both be wrong or right, it one of those what if argument, that we won’t know, I base my argument on the fact that characters have attested to Jiraiya’s power, in the end it’s all a matter of opinion, and on that note……………Jiraiya Rules 😉

    @Danny
    Dude……..I think you made a mistake on your list, don’t worry I’ll fix it, its supposed to be Jiraiya strongest, along with Third(in youth), Pain second and Itachi third, the rest can duke it out, no need to thank me, that’s why I’m here. LOL

    @walmart1
    Actually, Sage Mode mixes Natural Chakra with the user’s normal chakra, therefore it’s both an external source and a source that further develops once inside the user becoming internal as well, Itachi can’t control external sources of chakra, only normal chakra, the external source can serve to sever the genjutsu’s control on the victim, even if it is Tsukuyomi. You argue that it doesn’t matter because Itachi could cast a genjutsu on Jiraiya before he goes into Sage Mode, I argue that while under Tsukuyomi, Jiraiya could seize all movement allowing for Sage Mode to start taking effect, allowing him to go Sage long enough to dispel Tsukuyomi, he can’t move anyway right, just like Naruto seized movement when captured by the chakra absorbing Pain, to gather natural energy, an external source, disrupting the genjutsu. what good is Amaterasu burning another jutsu, even if it were to hit Jiraiya, Jiraiya would just seal it again, he wouldn’t mind using scroll’s instead of other toad’s esophagus, Itachi would just be wasting his eye sight. It’s obvious you haven’t read what Jiraiya’s Sage Tech Rasengan can do, and how big it really is, it says in Naruto wikia, that according to the Third Naruto Handbook, that it can easily hollow out an entire mountain, and if you compare Naruto’s Sage Rasengan to Jiraiya’s you’ll see that Jiraiya’s is at least twice as big, no exaggeration, just compare them, hollow a mountain, destroy a village, yeah their about the same. Susanoo using the mirror as a boat, to escape Earth Swamp( that’s a funny image) leaves it open to more straight forward jutsu like Toad Flame Bombs and other collaboration jutsu, Itachi dispelling Susanoo to dodge, would give Jiraiya a big opening to take down Itachi, tha fact that Orochimaru didn’t recognize the sword he was looking for and got pierced by it, has a simple explanation, Orochimaru had confidence in his regenerative abilities, get pierced nothing happens, but he didn’t count on it being that legendary sword that seals people in an eternal slumber, Jiraiya knows he doesn’t have regenerative abilities, so he wouldn’t let himself get pierced by Itachi’s sword, no matter if its legendary or not, why would he? Orochimaru was to slow because he was inside of his Hydra summoning, which as we saw wasn’t that mobile, Jiraiya’s Toads are all high jumpers and very nimble, the only fast snake Orochimaru had was Manda, but we all know what happened to him, so no, Jiraiya wouldn’t just stand there and take it, he’s not stupid like Orochimaru. Let’s just say that all the strongest characters died because they didn’t count on one thing, and that is Kishi going insane with power. LOL
    Jiraiya Rules. Peace out 😉

  64. “Itachi can’t control external sources of chakra”-Senjutsu wouldn’t be able to act as an external source as far as canceling Genjutsu because all the external source is used for is to disrupt your chakra. Sage mode would boost his chakra but not neccesarily disrypt it. What it comes down to is still Jariya’s chakra control and skill at genjutsu cancel, which is a three stat wise. Basically, you need SKILL not STRENGTH to get out of Genjutsu and Jariya + Sage mode are more geared toward strength.

    “Jiraiya could seize all movement allowing for Sage Mode to start taking effect,” Not all genjutsu cause you to cease movement. It would depend on the images you were shown in the Genjutsu ex. Danzo kept moving under Sasuke’s Tsukyoumi. Also if he stops moving he is still open to attacks like he normally would be, so if Itachi senses (using his sharingan) that Jariya is escaping Tsukyoumi or building up an attack (what sage mode would look like) then he will attack Jariya normally. And again, I don’t think Jariya could escape Tsukyoumi even with senjutsu.

    “what good is Amaterasu burning another jutsu, even if it were to hit Jiraiya, Jiraiya would just seal it again, he wouldn’t mind using scroll’s instead of other toad’s esophagus”-Well if it did hit Jariya it would burn him while he sealed it (he had to take out a scroll and use a jutsu to stop it, this took quite a bit of time battle-wise in the anime) Also his seal was able to capture the remnant flames on the Toad’s stomach, but those were nothing compared to what was used against Sasuke.

    “that according to the Third Naruto Handbook”-that’s why I was mistaken, I don’t read the handbooks. Even so, Itachi would probably dodge an attack of the magnitude. He’s got the Sharingan so he would easily see it comming.

    “leaves it open to more straight forward jutsu like Toad Flame Bombs and other collaboration jutsu” 1. He might be able to reflect both the swamp and the other jutsu (ex. a. he stands on one end of the sheild-boat, it flips up and blocks the attack while still acting as a platform or b. it just extends (it was shown to grow during the Oro. fight)) and Sussano still has a high deffence without Yammata’s Mirror. Any attack would leave Jariya (especially if he is upon a summon doing a collaboration jutsu) to Sussano’s sword.

    “get pierced nothing happens, but he didn’t count on it being that legendary sword that seals people in an eternal slumber” Orochimaru tried to dodge, and he almost succeded. Itachi only scratched him to cause the effect. Jariya would definately try to dodge what he saw as a deadly strike but he wouldn’t know to dodge even the smallest scratch, and to think he wouldn’t get scratched once is just rediculous.

    “which as we saw wasn’t that mobile” I don’t see it as less mobile than the Toads. It was able to move fairly quickly against Sussano.

    @”he knew he would lose in a straight up fight, he admitted it”-they are NINJA not Samurai… they use stealth and try NOT to fight straight up. Nagato was smart enough to keep himself hidden and strike at his oppnent’s weakness… Jariya lost a one-on-one fight against a strong opponent. Why can’t you accept that? MOST ninja “basically just really make use of one technique, like the Byakugan” because they are unskilled. But does Jariya? no he uses just as many different jutsu as Pein (Rasengan, Sage Mode, Summoning jutsu, Earth and Fire element, Toad jutsu, ect…)

  65. @walmart1
    About Jiraiya having to dodge, read this before assuming a scratch would be enough to seal Jiraiya, info on Susanoo’s sword…..

    Sakenagi Longsword (酒刈太刀, Sakenagi no Tachi; Sake Cutter Longsword), is sheathed in a sake jar held by a third hand growing from Susanoo’s right forearm. It is an ethereal weapon with an enchanted blade capable of sealing anything it pierces in a “world of drunken dreams” for all eternity.

    Key word “pierce”, it doesn’t say anything about a scratch, as we saw with Orochimaru, he was downright impaled through the chest or if you prefer pierced. Do I think Jiraiya can go a whole battle without getting scratched? yes, I do. Up until the point before Jiraiya had his arm amputated by Pain, I couldn’t recall any instance in which he got hit or even scratched, how is not knowing your opponent has extra bodies for reserves qualify as a weakness, Pain struck swift and true, but it does not detract from Jiraiya’s merit, I could also argue that Jiraiya did sense him, but was extremely stunned that he was able to revive himself, a technique of that level had not been heard of, so no that wasn’t a weakness. I’m aware that ninja are not samurai and just because Pain killed Jiraiya doesn’t make him stronger, so why don’t you admit, that if Jiraiya had known of the six separate bodies, he would have won, if you can’t take Pain’s/Nagato’s word for it, whose can you? and don’t say him not knowing is a weakness, the only reason we as readers knew of the six separate bodies was because we saw the bodies resting beforehand, if not, you would have been in the same position Jiraiya was wondering were the hell the bodies came from. Back to Itachi, I doubt he could dodge a Sage Tech Rasengan after suffering the strain of Susanoo, you saw how beat up he was after using Susanoo, he could barely limp. Here’s another thing, how about if Jiraiya uses his Sage genjutsu, what then? Itachi is done for, he can’t move to dispel it, his Sharingan is only good against visual genjutsu, how does Itachi defend against that? your argument that Tsukuyomi would still work on Jiraiya is contingent on whether Natural chakra acts as a disruptor or not, I argue that Jiraiya could stop his chakra flow, then pump it full of his own chakra and Natural Chakra, therefore ending Tsukuyomi by disrupting it and to do that you don’t need movement, you could be tripping on a genjutsu, but even then you realize it’s a genjutsu, Jiraiya would just stop and generate some Natural chakra, he has all the time in the world, since Itachi would most likely cast a genjutsu, such as Tsukuyomi, that alters the perception of time, giving Jiraiya days to get out of that genjutsu, in a matter of seconds, if he doesn’t cast a genjutsu that alters time, then the genjutsu is relatively weak by comparison. Oh and that argument with Jiraiya vs Kisame, I think you should start changing your argument, from how Kisame might win to how Gaara might win. LOL Regardless Jiraiya pwns everyone. Jiraiya Rules 8)

  66. “how is not knowing your opponent has extra bodies for reserves qualify as a weakness” HAVING extra bodies is a strength. Being stunned by revival or unaware of the presence is a weakness. Just because Pein’s strength was far beyond any other ninja’s doesn’t mean it wasn’t his strength. I’m not saying Jariya MIGHT not have beaten Pain with more intel. I’m saying he DIDN’T/COULDN’T GET more intel and thus lost. Secrecy is a strength, and unlike Kisu. I fully beleive in all tactics fair or unfair.

    “http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/”: Oro. Calls his wound a scratch… We can’t really see the angle he was hit at so all we have is his word unless the anime shows something. However “peircing” refers to any puncture wound so even if he only managed to break the surface (eg. A scratch) it would still be effective as it is a sealing genjutsu.

    “Sage Tech Rasengan after suffering the strain of Susanoo” If he breaks Sussanno before using it to it’s fullest I don’t see why he wouldn’t. As long as he still had his sharingan he would be able to analyze the situation.

    “Jiraiya uses his Sage genjutsu”- 1. Not his, it’s the frogs 2. Even if they used it he could see it coming (via the chakra build up) 3. He has a 5 in Genjutsu, meaning he is good in both deffence and offence. His skill with the Sharingan allows him to see when he is affected by genjutsu. 4. He has been shown to have excellent chakra control and lots of experience with genjutsu.

    “you could be tripping on a genjutsu” You can’t enter sage mode while in Genjutsu. What you overlooked is the purpose of stopping, which is to calm yourself and become one with nature. If your mind is racing even when your physical body is relatively still (relatively because it’s still doing most things like breathing) as long as Itachi keeps Jariya busy within the Genjutsu.

    “I think you should start changing your argument, from how Kisame might win to how Gaara might win” nah Gaara is weak. He only beat Kisame because of fandom. Kisame had a chance against Jariya but not Gaara.

  67. OMG these comments are like novels!!!

  68. Well it’s easier to write it as really long comments than a blog (though now I think I might…

  69. @Mart1
    I don’t know about you, but that definitely looks way more than a simple scratch to me, see all the blood, it looks more like the act of “piercing” Orochimaru, not scratching.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/

    oh and here is the definiton of the word “pierce”

    1. to penetrate into or run through (something), as a sharp, pointed dagger, object, or instrument does.
    2. to make a hole or opening in.
    3. to bore into or through; tunnel.
    4. to perforate.
    5. to make (a hole, opening, etc.) by or as by boring or perforating.

    I don’t see scratch, scratches are superficial, they don’t go through anything.
    You say Jiraiya would be in a panicked state of mind while under Itachi’s genjutsu, I say he would realize it was a genjutsu and remain calm, simply analyzing it and then calm his mind completely, achieving Sage Mode. You say Itachi could cancel his Susanoo half way before pulling him out completely, I’d say that would kill him, his biggest mistake would be to use Susanoo, his second biggest mistake would be to deactivate it, Jiraiya would just catch him with his hair and end of story, Itachi is not the only one that can pull a jutsu instantly out of nowhere, and as we saw Jiraiya can whip out a Rasengan almost instantly should Itachi lower Susanoo. As we saw Itachi became blind the moment he used Susanoo, so deactivating it would be a mute point, he would still be done for after it. You might believe that all is fair in love and war, but not all people do, a person that win’s under unfair circumstances might win out, but in the end they know and other people know that they would not have won in a fair fight, severely discrediting that win. Jiraiya would have won had he had at least been aware of or seen the bodies according to Pain. That’s the bottom line, suggesting his overall superiority compared to Pain. I’m sure neither you nor me will back off from our opinions, but who do you think would win between Pain and Itachi or Killer Bee vs Itachi or Pain vs Killer Bee?, I think it would be Pain beating Itachi, Itachi beating Killer Bee, and Pain beating Killerbee. Peace out. Jiraiya Rules 8)

  70. @Mart1

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/15/

    Here is the correct link, with all the “piercing”, blood and everything.

  71. @Mart, I found definitive proof as to why Gaara CANT beat Kisame. There was an anime filler arc in Part 1 where Gaara’s sand became wet and totally unusable by him. Check ouot the LAST filler arc of Part 1

  72. “You forget that each of Pains bodies could all use taijutsu quite effectively, so that thing were each of them had only one technique and therefore easy to beat is a load of crap” they ARE useless on their own. God Realm is the ONLY exception to this. Think of how easily Naruto took out the Pains when they weren’t working together, as opposed to how hard it was for Jiraiya to even get in a single hit when they were.

    “The difference between Jiraiya’s Sage Mode and Naruto’s was a minor one, what made Jiraiya’s Sage Mode imperfect was that he required Ma and Pa’s help, while Naruto did not” That IS how Sage Mode is supposed to work. In that regard, Jiraiya’s Sage Mode is better than Naruto’s because he doesn’t need to summon clones and disperse them. Ma and Pa don’t fuse with Naruto because the Kyubi rejects them.

    “I don’t know if you realize it, but you practically laid a put down on Pain.” No I didn’t. I’ve always said that individually the bodies are useless. It’s like a Windmill Shuriken with only one blade, still deadly, but not as effective as when there are four.

    “take also into account that most ninja basically just really make use of one technique, like the Byakugan, Sharingan, Shikamaru’s Shadow Possesion Jutsu are examples of what I mean, they are all techniques and use jutsu based on those techniques” ALL of Pain’s abilities were Rinnegan-based powers, so there is no point to what u said lol.

    Also, what do YOU call a straight up fight, because what I remember Pain saying was “If he knew my secret I wouldn’t have won” http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/383/13/ so isn’t he a ninja? Pain kept his secrets and thus he won. He PROVED that he was better, and besides, what he said was just praise, a tool kishi used to not cheapen Jiraiya, because after his Konoha invasion he PROVED he was stronger than Jiraiya.

  73. Genjutsu disrupts chakra, and to go to Sage Mode, one must fully control one’s chakra, as such, Sage Mode under a Genjutsu is impossible. Using external nature Chakra would destroy the balance of the internal chakra and turn the user to stone…………………..just saying >_>

  74. “Check ouot the LAST filler arc of Part 1” that was my favorite filler arc Kisu… cept the next real arc was the same thing… anyway, I thought stealling his chakra made the sand useless not the Water but I could be wrong.

    @Josh: Scratch can be defined as: “abrasion: an abraded area where the skin is torn or worn off” this means it is peircing the skin. Peircing is just a type of attack it doesn’t speak to the severity of a wound.

    “As we saw Itachi became blind the moment he used Susanoo,”: He lost his sharingan due to chakra overuse, not blindness. He would still be able to use his sharingan abilities.

    Plus what Kisu. said…

    @”but who do you think would win between Pain and Itachi or Killer Bee vs Itachi or Pain vs Killer Bee?” I think Pein would beat Killer Bee, I don’t know who would win between Pein and Itachi though probably Pein (I had an arguement with Kisu. about it) and Itachi would own Killer Bee.

  75. @Kisu
    Are you a gamer? if you are, even if your not, here is an analogy or comparison.

    Okay, suppose you are playing a fighting video game, lets say Super Smash Brothers Brawl, just for the hell of it, you decide to face three computer controlled characters set at their maximum difficulty, you choose you favorite character, in this case Yoshi, to represent Jiraiya, eggs frogs same concept, and are about to face three characters, Ness, absorbs your atacks like HGR, Zelda, uses magic represents soul removing Pain, and Pokemon Trainer summons different pokemon, as summoning Pain, and all at the same time, you are Jiraiya, the lone fighter, and the computer is Nagato, controlling the three separate characters, you start fighting them and you are doing well, taking them out one by one separating them, which is no small feat I might add, and you are winning , you take minimal damage and you think it all over, you are finished fighting them, but then their is a glitch within the game, three other characters appear, Ganondorf as Hell Realm, Samus as that Pain that’s a robot and Mario as Deva Pain, you get caught with one of Samus’s attack and are critically damaged before you can even pick up your controller, had you known you were going to face six characters, you would have done things differently, you manage to eliminate one character, Pokemon Trainer, summoning Pain, but its to hard to beat all six after taking a cheap shot, you lose, but you know and anyone else present knows that you would have won against the computer had it not been for that cheap shot.

    Like the analogy.

    “Also, what do YOU call a straight up fight, because what I remember Pain saying was “If he knew my secret I wouldn’t have won” http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/383/13/ so isn’t he a ninja? Pain kept his secrets and thus he won. He PROVED that he was better, and besides, what he said was just praise, a tool kishi used to not cheapen Jiraiya, because after his Konoha invasion he PROVED he was stronger than Jiraiya.”

    What do I call a straight fight? Both Nagato and his six bodies in an open field facing Jiraiya, just like when Hashirama faced Madara in a plain that later came to be the Valley of the End or like when Orochimaru faced The Third, or when Sasuke and Hawk faced Killerbee, or like when Neji faced Naruto and so on. And that quote by Pain is what I base my argument on, he may have won that fight, but that quote proves Jiraiya was better, I see it as a way for Kishi to show that Pain/Nagato is not invincible as Madara had stated, I also see it as a way for Kishi to show that Jiraiya was stronger, that comment about Kishi not “cheapening Jiraiya” is also irrelevant, how can a character who trained the Fourth Hokage, Nagato, Konan and Naruto be considered cheap?, three of those four students became leaders of their respective village at one point, and Naruto is the main protagonist, how is any of that cheap? If anything it only serves to point out the obvious that Jiraiya was the stronger of the two and that in a fair fight he would have won, based on the quote. How can you, after arguing that Naruto had extra help and that Pain was at a disadvantage and that the fight was not fair, that Naruto did not win, argue with my line of thinking, you call Pain wiping out an entire village “ninja” like, saying Jiraiya is weaker than Pain/Nagato is like saying Pain/Nagato is weaker than Naruto, since Naruto did “beat” him, are you willing to say that? I’m not, because Naruto didn’t “beat” Nagato and Jiraiya is STRONGER than Nagato, it’s as simple as that.

    Oh and Sage Mode wouldn’t necessarily turn it’s user into a frog, since immediately after interrupting one’s chakra flow, the genjutsu would end, allowing for the user to manage their own chakra or to quit using sage mode, Sage Mode would serve as a way to stop the genjutsus affect immediately upon entering the person, from there on the person can choose what to do.

    @walmart 1
    The last filler arc of part 1 was also my favorite. 😉

    A scratch isn’t a piercing, you can’t say getting scratched with a rusty blade is the same as getting impaled with one or pierced, a scratch won’t give you Tet nus, but getting pierced will get my drift.

    Just because he might be able to use Sharingan abilities, doesn’t mean he would have the necessary strength to carry them out, by the time he got to using Susanoo he could barely walk, if Sasuke could push him to chakra overuse, what do you think Jiraiya would do? Just because he had the sharingan abilities at hand that wouldn’t mean would be able to use them, fatigue is fatigue and he was downright almost dead by the time he activated Susanoo.

    “Plus what kisu said….”
    you can read the comment I left for him too, if you want.

    and finally we agree on the outcome of fights between, Killer Bee and Itachi, Itachi and Pain and Pain vs Killer Bee. Finally.
    Jiraiya Rules. Peace out. 8)

  76. @John, who ISNT a gamer? I feel sorry for those that aren’t 8(. Anyhoo, I’d just use cheats but meh. The fact that I wasn’t prepared for that glitch would just make me angry at myself for letting my guard down, then I’d just play again. But if i knew that 6 of those characters made an invincible team, I wouldn’t feel good fighting them one-on-three, I’d go for the one-on-six to say im the best.

    What I say about Naruto vs Pain is that Naruto had A LOT of help, Pain was just using HIS jutsu and HIS abilities. The outcome came strictly from HIS skill. Its not like Pain had fought Jiraiya before and Pain collected data on him (like Shikamaru did with Hidan), Pain was as in the dark as Jiraiya was. Pain bested him, proved he was a better ninja, end of story.

    “Oh and Sage Mode wouldn’t necessarily turn it’s user into a frog” exactly. Sage Mode wouldn’t, but nature’s chakra would. Even a slight imbalance results into Frogification.

    I may not sound like it, but before Part 2, Jiraiya was my favorite, and I wanted to strangle Kishi when he died, but then I realized that he lost to a ninja that was better than him and I coped and moved on. I always use the fact that 4 of Jiraiya’s students went on to become leaders as a testament to his strength, I don’t think he’s weak, just not as strong as Pain. Jiraiya is my 5th favorite character actually lol

  77. how can anybody vote gaara? come on guys this isnt a popularity contest we all know kisame would win. Gaara was captured by deidara who could have killed him but he was holding back… kisame is a much better ninja than gaara and all his abilities counter Gaaras… first off like kisuzachi said when his sand becomes wet he cant control it…. also kisames sword would drain the chakra from the sand.. garaa would be reduced to useless tiajutsu over a much better taijutsu opponent… fight over

  78. @Kisu
    That’s right were all gamer here. LOL

    Exactly, had you known their would have been six characters against you, YOU/Jiraiya would have won, not the computer/Nagato, if anything you would be mad at the game designer/Kishi, for screwing you over.

    Nagato was not in the dark, Jiraiya trained him so Nagato had intimate knowledge about Jiraiya’s jutsu, he also knew his fighting style. Jiraiya was in the dark, for the most part, since when he trained Nagato he only taught him the essential ninjutsu, not advanced ones….

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/375/11/

    So Jiraiya was in the dark about Nagato’s Rinnegan abilities, and even with Nagato knowing Jiraiya’s style of fighting, he still admitted he would not have won had Jiraiya known, just like in my video game analogy, like the analogy, Jiraya was the stronger of the two, end of story.

    Think about this, Jiraiya managed to sneak into one of the most strict, security wise, villages with relative ease, managed to capture two ninjas and extract information from them regarding Pain’s location, now I ask you, why Nagato/Pain didn’t do that when searching for Naruto?, If you ask me, he only complicated himself attacking the village like that. How is Pain hiding in a village and Jiraiya going after him not a disadvantage?, Jiraiya had confidence in HIS skills, HIS jutsu and HIS abilities, Nagato recognized his STRONG presence, Jiraiya was in the same position when he invaded the Rain Village as when Nagato invaded Konoha to search out Naruto, Jiraiya just had the smarter approach, avoiding any unnecessary casualties, like a true ninja. In arguing against Jiraiya’s strength you are arguing against Pain’s/Nagato’s as well, inadvertently admitting that Naruto defeated Pain, and we know you don’t want that, right?. Jiraiya was the strongest, end of story or is it?

    What I meant with Sage Mode not turning the user in to a stone was the process of collecting Natural Chakra, you can just end the process as soon as you end the genjutsu’s affect on you, that’s what I meant, the simple act of collecting Natural Chakra, disrupts the genjutsu, after that you can stop collecting Natural energy if you wish.

    It’s fairly obvious that Jiraiya is my number one character but Pain and Itachi are my second and third respectively, their cool and complete badasses with true skill, it’s just they wouldn’t cut it against Jiraiya. Fourth Gaara and fifth Neji, but overall Jiraya rules. LOL 8)

  79. As far as the Itachi – Jiraiya fight is concerned, Susano’o is not as much a fatal jutsu for the user as you stated, Itachi was just seriously ill and started blood coughing and getting weak before even using it. Sasuke has used it so much during the last chapters, but nothing happened to him, he was just exhausted (and maybe almost blind!)

    So the question is: if a fight occured between a fully strong and healthy Itachi (Madara – and Kakashi too in Part 1 – stated that Itachi has never shown his true abilities) and Jiraiya, who would have won?

  80. Well Pain HAD to use that approach. Stealth means nothing to one of the FIVE GREAT NATIONS, Jiraiya invaded a weak village, big whoop. Pain DID use stealth. The bodies that were attacking were only a distraction while the more specialized bodies collected info. Also, Jiraiya trained Nagato like 20 years ago, MUCH about his fighting style could have changed by then. Nagato would be a fool to use that information he got 20 YEARS AGO in a fight with one of the strongest ninjas in the manga. Besides, its not like Jiraiya had to fight anyone before he fought Nagato, its the equivalent of Hinata fighting Pain. Like i said b4 as well, I would actually be glad i lost and challenge it again just to kick their asses and get a better challenge.

    We’re not making any progress here so let’s just agree to disagree.

    One more thing………Pain is the AIZEN of Naruto!

  81. “A scratch isn’t a piercing, you can’t say getting scratched with a rusty blade is the same as getting impaled with one or pierced, a scratch won’t give you Tet nus, but getting pierced will get my drift.” Funnily enough, I did get tetnus and almost died after getting scratched with a rusty nail. Again it comes down to would Itachi be able to hit Jariya. I agree with Kisu. That we’re not progressing. I have the next week off so I plan to write a post about ninja who could take on Jariya, due to all his fandom. So far the list goes: Pein, Madara, Kisame, Itachi, Suigetsu, Orochimaru, Minato, and Naruto/Sasuke.

    On your gamer analogy: Don’t they actually do that in one of the super smash bro.’s games on the harder dificulties? You think you won when either bowser, a hand or a second hand comes out to fight while you are already weak? And on that note I’m pretty sure the first time I faced said opponent I lost due to Lack Of Skill. Even if he still fought Jariya mono y mono, Pein still might have won… (I’ll argue it in the blog)

    @”One more thing………Pain is the AIZEN of Naruto!”-I think Madara is. Pein makes me think of Byakuya or Grimjow.

  82. Great comparisons! I love all the characters of naruto. I hope to have more ideaof the characters from fellow Naruto fans.

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