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Naruto Chapter 474 – The Cost of Saving a Friend

naruto-retro1Post Author: Bob

This chapter breaks off from the Killerbee/Kisame fight and returns us back to Naruto and Danzo’s plotlines. I get the feeling that this lack of any continuation scenes after Kisame’s decapitation means that he is really a goner for good — I’m a bit pissed off that his character was just thrown away like that after such a long time, but what’s done is done.  Chapter 474 has quite a few new developments including the Danzo vs. Madara encounter as well as Sai’s information on Sakura’s true intentions — something that will have important ramifications on Naruto’s quest to save Sasuke.

I want to talk about Sai’s message to Naruto.  But before that, if anyone is reading Sleepy Fans scanlations on Onemanga, what the hell is an “age mate?” as Sai puts it to Naruto in the first few pages.  I think it just means friends or maybe classmates; maybe it’s a slang in some other country?  Back on topic, Sai tells Naruto some shocking info about Konoha’s decision to kill off Sasuke and goes on to postulate Sakura’s emotions on the matter and what she plans to do. Maybe it‘s just me, but I found it pretty amusing that a guy like Sai, who up until a few month ago had no understanding of bonds and emotions, is suddenly trying to play mediator in this emotional turmoil between Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke.  Heck, he even psychoanalyzes Sakura’s feelings down to the core and manages to predict her next move: to kill Sasuke herself.  This from the guy who has been raised from childhood to erase all emotions and bonds from his mind.  Maybe I’m reading too deep into this, but Sai’s actually doing a lot more harm than good here ever since he went to talk to Sakura about her feelings for Naruto.  He’s suppose to be on Naruto’s side and protecting them against Danzo’s spies, but he’s doing a lot more damage by himself through all this meddling into Naruto and Sakura’s affairs.

After hearing Sai’s news, Naruto is now placed at a very difficult position; in fact, in the span of just this one chapter, Naruto has become incredibly alone.  By that I mean he now feels that he is alone in his quest to save Sasuke and bring him back to Konoha.  According to Sai’s message, all of Konoha including Naruto’s own friends in the Konoha 11 are turning their back on Sasuke and prepared to end his life in order to prevent him from doing anymore harm to the world.  Even Sakura, the person who probably loved Sasuke the most, has now given up on this foolish notion of returning everything back to the way it was.  So what is Naruto to do now?  Everything seems to be stacked against him. All the major countries have Sasuke on a death warrant, Konoha wants Sasuke dead, Sakura is ready to end his life with her own hands if necessary, and Sasuke himself has clearly chosen this road and does not want to be “saved.”  But what really hammers the final nail in the coffin is Gaara coming up to Naruto and basically saying “if you want to be a real man like me, go and end that little b*tch’s life.” And because it has been already been established that Gaara is a man’s man, what he says goes.

Gaara: "I'll protect you, Naruto!" Naruto: *girlish squeals*

If Naruto continues down his road of “saving” Sasuke, he will be going against everyone else’s wishes and will seem like he is doing this only out of sheer stubbornness and ignorance of reality.  Naruto’s looking for a “happy ending” here, that may seem childish but that’s the way Naruto is (and pretty much all Shonen manga heroes).  But this isn’t the happy and adventurous childhood times Naruto and friends experienced way back when this series first started.  Great crimes have been committed, trust has been broken, people have died.  A great war in looming just on the horizon and Sasuke will most definitely play a key role as Madara’s pawn. If Sasuke is left alive, he will likely be responsible for the deaths of many people during the war.  This isn’t just about Naruto wanting to save his friend anymore, can Naruto put his own feelings above the well being of the rest of the world?

According to Sai, Sakura is clear on her course of action. She will attempt to locate Sasuke and kill him herself.  She definitely still loves him, but if she believes Sasuke has lost himself to the darkness already, then she could very well justify killing him in order to save him from himself.  Heck, she could very well strangle Sasuke to death on the spot if she finds him with Karin; wouldn‘t it be awkward if she found them while Sasuke was “biting“ into Karin to heal himself? LOL.  But if Sakura does manage to kill Sasuke, I think that would be the end of her as well; by that I mean she would mentally collapse and never be the same again.  Of course, Naruto will not stand by and let this happen and try to stop Sakura. But but what are the alternatives after that?  How do you save a person that doesn’t want to be saved and bring him back to a world that wants him dead?  It’s a no-win situation any way you look at it. It’ll be interesting to see how Kishi will carry this forward.

Lastly, I want to touch on the Madara and Danzo encounter a bit.  I think that scenes pretty much puts an end to all that Danzo = Madara nonsense, but the two definitely have a history together.  Madara mentions that he hasn’t seen Danzo since the Uchiha massacre — this isn’t that much of a surprise since Danzo was one of the instigators of that event.  Danzo probably knows much more about Madara and Akatsuki than anyone right now, but he clearly isn’t Madara’s friend either.  This encounter with Madara allows us to see the other hidden weapon of Danzo’s, his right arm. My first thought was Automail, but then I realized this was the wrong manga :p  Like his right eye, this arm probably isn’t Danzo’s original one either, but is it from Shisui as well or some other poor sob?  It would interesting to see a full battle between Danzo and Madara, but I have a feeling that Madara is hear to talk.  What frightens me is that these two actually share some common interests to make a temporary alliance possible and make this coming war a whole lot messier.

That’s all for this week. P.S. Kakashi for Hokage 2010!

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135 Responses

  1. damn i cant believe i’m finally first!!! hoooorrrraayyyy!!!

  2. and also it was a nice chapter. man this week is awsome. first i get my secret crush’s number and then i get her friend to like me ( three-some!) and now kishi finally makes a nice chapter with danzo and madara going to face off! i luv my life 🙂

  3. Where can i cast my vote for hokage?

  4. “age mate?” I took that as Sai’s weird relationship issues surfacing or just Onemanga’s reliably crappy translators (who taught them english-japanese???)

    “My first thought was Automail” I thought it looked like a split between Oro.’s dead arms and the Raikage’s gauntlets.

    “Change we can beleive in!” Kakashi would make the ultimate politician, because he can just copy other people’s slogans!

    I think that Danzo will join Akatsuki, but what would Sasuke think??? I think Kabuto will join too.

    I’m going to wait to see if there is another Madara = possibility. Though just for arguements sake, what if Madara and Danzo were like Zetsu, two parts of a whole, who then split to become individuals. I also think Madara’s sharingan came from Shisui

  5. hahahahahahahahaha like sakura can kill sasuke that hilarious

  6. Oh well, I already know Naruto’s answer:

    Gaara: Do what you must as Sasuke’s friend.
    Naruto: I ‘m going to save my friend on my own free will. I’m not going back on my words. That’s my way of ninja!

  7. im sorry for all the sakura fans out there but if they do meet i dont think sasuke is goin to take sakura seriously

  8. naruto is goin to save her from sasuke

  9. first off, i’d like to wish clue427 good luck w/ his new relationship(s) and hope you’ll show respect to them
    second, my hopes for future chapters: basically i want a bunch of sides in the war, Alliance, Danzo and Root, Akatsuki (remember, there r more Akatsuki members than just the ring-bearing ones), Kabuto w/ Otogakure; i want Sasuke to fully go into the dark side and Naruto to recognize it, not so much out of hate for Sasuke, but just so Naruto can grow up a little bit; massive battles to come; Raikage regrowing his arm (he sacraficed his dominant arm for a good blow, he has to have some kinda regeneration power); and, well so mart doesn’t thro a fit, inturn making me thro a fit, i won’t say this last 1

  10. oh, on “age mate”, i just figured that meant “peers the same age”, altho i really hated the term

  11. I think this is just how the story should be going. This sets up Naruto to be a great hero. Because being a hero and having strength isn’t about having badass jutsu or the most on your team. It’s about standing up for something you believe in, despite all odds against you and despite pretty much no one in your corner. If naruto can come up with a victorious solution that will settle all of this and beat madara, he’ll go right into the Hall of Fame with Goku.

  12. “so mart doesn’t thro a fit” please by all means: but allow me to explain a bit. 1. Madara has the Sharingan (Duh) 2. Zetsu can “record” fights for Madara to watch 3. Madara doesn’t care all that much about Akatsuki aside from gathering bijju. These three things point to Madara being interested in learning his member’s battle styles/jutsu and with the sharingan, memorizing them, thus being POSSIBLY ABLE to do a zetsu split. 4. Danzo had to compensate for missing roughly half a body, and Madara seems to have a “handicap” as well (pins in arm) 5. Zetsu’s personalities are usually bickering, why not a full out fight between them? 6. this is mostly just bull shit, it’s not worth throwing a fit over, just a random idea.

  13. At least now we can finally put this whole Danzo/Madara debate to rest, sheesh! How exactly is Sakura planning on fighting Sasuke on her own, cause I seroiusly doubt she’ll last very long. It’ll probably be like 1…2…3..DONE!

  14. Can it be that Madara/Tobi gave Danzou the sharigan, they really haven’t told any1 how danzo got the sharigan or why tobi only shows 1 side of his eye and not the other

  15. “Age mate” means “Teammate” to Sai. And, yes it is Onemanga’s crappy scanulators that did this. They appearently don’t know what English people say 😛

  16. i’m guessing the metal brackets are the actual seal on danzou’s arm.

    btw, yeah your right its kind of bull sh*t, but i really like your theory up there mart

  17. @ mart, i wasn’t talking about my anti Danzo=Madara sentiments, i was talking about somthing u usually thro a fit over when i bring it up, and that’s y i’m not bringing it up

  18. i was just joking about the three-some thing 😛 or was i?

  19. @ clue, i won’t hold it against you either way as long as u treat her/them fairly (ie, if you’re a shit boyfriend, then i hope u suffer in painful agony, but if u aren’t, then let’s hope she’s/they’re respectful)

  20. What? There wasn’t anything about Hinata in this chapter and that’s what we argue about besides Danzo = Madara. Unless it was “Sakura doesn’t love him” but I don’t care about that… My “pairings choice” is that hinata dies for Naruto (again, but for real)

  21. i was talking about my hopes for the manga in general, not just the stuff in this chapter. and NaruHina falls under my hopes for the manga in the future. altho, Hinata sacraficing herself for Naruto wouldn’t b too bad as long as Naruto doesn’t do somthing stupid like hooking up w/ Sakura afterwards.

  22. ugh, anyways mart, just ignore it, i was basically saying that i wanted that as much as the other stuff i mentioned, but i really don’t feel like talking about it, today was a long enuf day for me as it was. just forget i brought it up

  23. Today did suck… Okay JPUA, just curious what you meant.

  24. Naruto for Hokage
    Kakashi doesnt really want to be hokage you can tell by his expression he is more of a field agent. im not saying he would be a good one but he just doesnt want 2 be.

  25. I think this was a great chapter, first off I don’t think Sakura is able to kill Sasuke but I’m not going to say she will be totally thrashed because she isn’t weak, she managed to take out an Akatsuki mostly by herself and we probably haven’t seen the full extent of her power! Secondly, I kinda think Naruto should end this bond with Sasuke too, I think the only way Sasuke will listen to him or respect him is if he comes at him trying to kill him. I agree with Bob how the hell is Sai so in touch with his emotion maybe those books are helping!LOL

    I honestly cant wait to see what Danzo can do with that arm but I don’t think they are going to fight very long, We already know whats going to happen, Danzo and Madara both want world domination and great power, so they are going to team up and Madara is actually going to have a real army.

    Oh yeah and the best think is KAKASHI IS THE ROKUDAIME HOKAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  26. Well I wouldn’t be surprised if Kakashi is poised to take the role of Hokage and then Tsuande wakes up. So then Naruto can still become the 6th Hokage.

    Also, Danzo probably got Shisui’s sharingan from Tobi, seeing how the Uchiha police recovered Shisui’s body from the river , and why in the world would they give a fresh sharingan to Danzo, their enemy? It must have been part of a bargain Danzo made.

    I also believe that Ao already said that the chakra flowing through the right arm resembled that of Shisui… but I don’t see what it would have to do with Shisui unless it unlocks a crazy body flicker… although I would expect a transplanted leg to do that. It does seem like the bolts are the seal.

    Also, I doubt Danzo & Tobi are a split of the same person, Danzo is just willing to do whatever it takes to do what he believes makes peace, even if it means sacrificing his own body, in an Orochimoru kind of way.

  27. Hey Jet Prime, Ultimate Autobot
    im curious to what u said about akatsuki members without rings?? where did that come from and who are they??

  28. @ Yellowflash2, I agree with you for the most part. Sakura may not be on par with Sasuke, but she’ll hold out. He won’t be able to pull genjutsu on her and getting close to her comes with a certain risk : D . Kishi did mention that he was going to develop Sakura’s character a lot more over part II, so maybe we’ll get to see some new offensive tactics?? I really hope so.

    As it stands though, from what we know of her fighting style, the only real way she could win is by surprise/outsmarting him. The problem with surprise is that Karin will be able to sense her approaching and no doubt warn Sasuke before a fatal strike can be delivered. As for Karin herself, she had better stay out of it if she values her life! All it takes though is one good hit to deliver enough force to crush him, however, I can’t imagine Kishi making it that simple. And Sakura has back-up in case things get out of hand. I’m not too worried.

  29. @docharuno, dude wht made u think sakura can hold out on sasuke, u see genjutsu level wht a sharingan user have is beyond comprehension, also uchiha siblings r the best of the genjutsu user, Tsukoyomi is unavoidable for sakura.

    yes sakura is strong in terms of strenth but sasuke again is fast and agile equiped witht long range jutsus and sharingan.
    sakura alone is no match for sasuke.

  30. but i really don’t see a fight between sauke and sakura is coming there’s a long way to go before anything gonna happen to sasuke.

    evn the circumstances like danzo and madara still have undiscovered plot.

    i am glad copy kid fianly got wht he deserved , lord hokage hatake,lol

  31. for most surprising danzo is showing off pretty cool i must say, i always thought of him to be a old bastard good for schemes only but to think he actually started to fight against madara he got s’thing for sure.

    an interesting character………..

    i really want to see more on the claims made by konaha 11, i wonder who amomgst them is really thinking of taking on sasuke but 11against 1 is really odd.

  32. i hope this ends the Danzo-is-Madara/Tobi theory once and for all lets hope for some offensive acion from Danzo’s arm and Madara’s lollipop mask nxt week [^_^]

  33. EDIT****
    I agree, but he has a right to his own oppinions and profanity is not neccesary-Mart

  34. @ manishuchiha, Sakura has already held out against Itachi’s genjutsu….

  35. Great stuff as usual Bob.

    And, r u guys serious? Sakura will hold her own against Sasuke? She wouldn’t last a minute. Her character is just like any typical copout female lead in this genre.

    LET’S NOT GET CARRIED AWAY HERE!

    Sakura DID NOT take out Sasori by herself. The Grandma was pretty badass and did like 80-90% of the work.

    And Sakura didn’t hold out against Itachi’s genjustsu, I believe Itachi CAN decide who he wants to fall under his genjustsu and he chose Naruto. I mean Kakashi fell for his genjutsu, so Sakura is a better genjustu counterer than Kakashi?

  36. I think Sakura will not be able to kill Sasuke on her own, Sasuke is much stronger than her, the only 1 that can kill him is Naruto if he has the courage to do so.

  37. IMHO, Sakura’s death by Sasuke’s hands will be a great way to move this manga forward and add to Naruto’s Sasuke dilemma.

    Also, Sakura’s backup ain’t much backup in my opinion. Is it just me or is Kiba the most useless character in this manga? Lee is alright, but he ain’t gonna take out Sasuke. And as for Sai, Sasuke took him out once before and can probably do it more easily a second time.

  38. As for Danzo v Madara, this will be interesting. Can’t wait to see what the youngman can do against the old guy LOL.

    I think it’s safe to assume that back in the day, Danzo was probably at least in the same league as the Third since he was the Third’s main rival. Wonder how much naturally aging and his new body parts have affected his ability.

    I don’t think they will team up. But if they do, it’ll be an under-the-table arrangement, at least away from Sasuke’s knowledge. Sasuke seems to be the key ingredient in Madara’s ultimate plan whether it’s the 10-tails or something else, so I doubt Madara will invite Danzo into the club and alienate his Golden Boy.

    Btw, Bob I love that campaign poster!

  39. @docharuno, u seems u r so sure on “Sakura has already held out against Itachi’s genjutsu…” can i ask u for proof or s’thing that can prove it.

    coz i don’t remember anything abt wht u r saying, also itachi’s genjutsu ranges frm basics to high class,if we talk about tsukyomi till now only sasuke and killer bee avoided it and it seems that sage mode also have the potential but sakura don’t have anyof such ability to cancel it .

    no offence but practicaly against sasuke sakura cannot hold out any grounds.. she’s so slow for someone like sasuke, even when comparing abilities the results r same

  40. considering how emotional and cry baby sakura is, Tsukyomi probably will have devastating effect on her as she have a lot of scary memories of the past.

  41. good post. cant wait till next weeks chapter. what i hope will happen is sakura will join sasuke. they say love is blind, so i can see it happenin.

  42. okay, sorry about taking so long to respond to these comments i’m responding to
    @ sasukethebeast, well, if you remember, all of Amegakure had Akatsuki uniforms, and while Konan probably controls Ame, i’m sure there’s other countries that have ppl like that
    @ stopcryingaboutit, uhm, not to rain on your parade, but Hinata is a lot sexier and would probably b alot funner to have sex w/ than Sakura. this is 1 of my many reasons that Naruto should choose Hinata (also the only 1 that’s not based off of emotion), she’ll make him happy in more ways than one 😉 , while Sakura’s kinda unattractive and would probably knock Naruto’s lights out for good if he even suggests that they have sex. but i’d rather not get into an arguement if u just have horrible taste in girls (then again, so does Naruto), i’m not sure how i could help that

  43. i didnt read any comments earlier, i didnt want to mention on the whole sakura naruto thing (good analysis bob) so on to the important factor, danzous arm!!! mechanical robotical, whatever you want to call it, im curious what the next chapter holds, predictions we never thought of

  44. Sakura holding her own against sasuke is a joke. The last time I saw sakura in action those cloud clowns put a quick whipping on her and sai untill naruto stepped in

  45. Let’s face it, the odds of Sakura actually killing Sasuke in a fair one-on-one fight is pretty much nil. Sakura is well aware of that herself, she is a medical nin, not a front line fighter. But she is going to go after Sasuke anyways, or die trying. She is racked with guilt for putting Naruto and everyone’s lives in danger because she has been pushing for letting him live with the vain hope everything will return back to normal, and now they’re paying for it. The thought of Sakura beating Sasuke is a joke, especially considering that female characters haven’t exactly had a long history of victories in this manga. But the point here is to prove Sakura’s resolve and to show just how far she is willing to go to put an end to this. Is going after Sauske a stupid and impulsive move? Hell yes, and she’s putting Sai, Lee and Kiba in danger too. But what can I say, love can make people do foolish things.

  46. Bob, finally a voice of reason! Thanks!

    I think Sakura may try to get close to Sasuke perhaps by (pretending) to cross lines to join his team. Her chances of pulling off a successful assassination from within would be greater than 0 this way… maybe 1%???

    But yea, Sasuke ain’t gonna be taken out by Sakura either way.

  47. Come on guys, this battle will never happen. Even if it does happen, Naruto will intervene immediately and Sakura will not die. Naruto is the one that will be the ultimate rival of Sasuke, you must accept it. He doesn’t want either of his friends die, does he? I think he will run after Sakura right now to stop her.

  48. RIP Kisame, the Hulkster and Macho man tag team were too fast for you. The match was fixed, just like the WWE…!

    Sakura vs Sasuke? Lol, seriously. About Naruto running after Sakura, will he be allowed to go anywhere other than home? With the Sand trio as his personal bodyguards, its either home or to the Sand village.

    Kakashi for Hokage! Well if he ends up accepting selection, he certainly won’t have time to be bored with paper work. Interested to see how his operational brilliance translates into preparing the village for war.

    And Sasuke’s two disposable forks are picked up by the samurai…

  49. Bob and others who read the mangas as they come out you get a better translation from this site narutobase.net that i found anywhere.

  50. good post. the chapter was a little slow moving for me and not that interesting but thanks to you for clearing that up for me bob lol and another thing…how can you endorse kakashi when tsunade is still here. she might be in a coma but come on. dont count grandma out just yet 😛

  51. im mad everyone is doubting sakura in a serious fight with sauske. In my opinion she may be able to hold her own. for one she can summon the slugs to heal herself during battle. the ms comes at a cost toward the user. as far as ms techniques that inner sakura would overcome that somehow making it useless. other than that avoid his attacks until his chakra is drained deliver the crushing blow

  52. @JPUA
    um Sasuke, karin, Jugo & Suigetsu aka Team Hawk or Taka are also Akatsuki members wdout rings…they only have the cloaks…

  53. @ tsukage, Sakura has never summoned slugs except in fanfics and a DS game, i kinda think she should, but it’s never been shown. Sasuke has shown the ability to paralyze ppl w/ his lightning, so Sakura couldn’t even do handseals. Inner Sakura has not made any non-videogame appearance (that i know of) since the Chunin Exams. even if she still had that, it would only b effective against genjutsu, not ninjutsu or taijutsu, both of which Sasuke’s incredibly good at. Sakura has no defense against these techniques: Chidori+variants (especially long range ones), the Katon that’s shaped like a dragon’s head ( http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_Release:_Great_Dragon_Fire_Technique ), Kirin, Ametearsu or Susanoo. so basically Sakura would’ve had to gained some sorta super-ly incredible move that is COMPLETLY different than any other jutsu she’s ever shown b4 and have it S-rank if she want’s to stand a few minutes against Sasuke

  54. @ sage o 7, they were actually supposed to b part time members. if Killer Bee didn’t escape, then they would’ve just quit and never have anything to do w/ Akatsuki again (at least that’s my understanding)

  55. JPUA, 1. I don’t think Sakura could kill Sasuke, however she could dodge chidori variants and dragon flame jutsu. I’m interested to see tsukyoumi vs. Medical Jutsu (as far as countering goes, but I thinktsukyoumi would win). And I think Sakura’s punches could break the Sasuke-sussano like the raikage. However amatseru, Kirin or even sasuke’s taijutsu would all own Sakura. Her only defense being a post healing on herself. Another possibility you all overlook is sakura using a double suicide technique like anko’s or something (I think this has the greatest chance of success)

    2. Maybe the class rings haven’t been ordered yet…. But yeah, Sasori had sleeper cells; Kakuzu had his support network, deidara was 17…, and Nagato had amegakure so it’s safe to say madara has some allies

  56. “how can you endorse kakashi when tsunade is still here”
    Tsunade is so 2008; we need someone who can bring real change: rebuild Konoha, create jobs for umemployed ninja and provide health care reform.

    “it’s safe to say madara has some allies”
    I agree there, there’s no way an international criminal organization like Akatsuki can be run by just a dozen guys, even if they’re powerful shinobi. If it were so, Madara wouldn’t let them get killed off like rats. No, you need a lot of little guys to keep a crime syndicate going, so I’m pretty sure Madara has a lot of eyes and ears working for him. Mart brings up a good point about Sasori’s sleeper cells, those guys had no idea who they really were until Sasori broke the seal on their minds. It’s not inconceivable that someone like Madara with the M.Sharingan has a similar network. If he activates them during the war, there’s going to be a whole lot of chaos in the ranks of the good guys.

  57. @DH, “Kishi did mention that he was going to develop Sakura’s character a lot more over part II, so maybe we’ll get to see some new offensive tactics??”- Kishi also said he had big plans for Kisame…..and he died in less than 5 chapters……

    This is exactly the push Naruto needs. When Sakura gets gruesomely killed by Sasugay (HOOOOOORAAAAAY!!!!!!!), Naruto will finally realize just how far into the blackness Sasuke has gone (darkness is too cool a word to use for Sasuke). And Naruto being told by Sai and Gaara that there is no hope for Sasuke has been a long time coming.

    Greak chap Bob-sama. I’ve been having connection probs all week, nice to be back at Shannaro!.

  58. Btw, I now officially hate Sakura the most….that’s right, I even hate her more than Hinata and Kurenai. At first, I only hated her for her uselessness. Then I hated her for making Naruto into a whiny bitch. Then I hated her for wasting so many pages of the Kisame-Kirabi fight. BUT NOW I HATE HER FOR MAKING EVERYONE FORGET ABOUT KISAME! I WANT SASUKE TO RIP HER TRACHEA OUT AND CRUSHE HER HEART THEN PULL HER INTESTINES OUT AND USE A KATON ON IT! Glad I got that out of my system 8)

    Anyway, Danzo does not = Madara (like I’ve been saying for months). As for Madara’s army…..that’s pretty simple. Villages like AMegakure have suffered because of the 5 Great Nations, but think of how many villages are out there…WAY MORE THAN 5. That’s where Madara’s army most likely’l come from. All he has to do is promise them that the 5 Villages will fall and then the lesser villages will gain power blah blah blah. And besides, who wouldn’t ally with a guy that has SEVEN biju?

  59. @ kisu “I now officially hate Sakura the most….that’s right, I even hate her more than Hinata and Kurenai”, okay, i know you hate Hinata (cuz she’s too timid for your liking), but y do u hate Kurenai? what’s she done to get on your bad side?

  60. oh, btw, the reasons u listed on y u hate Sakura, that’s only about 1 tenth of my list

  61. @ Kisu and JPUA:

    Count me in as part of the Hate-Sakura club. She NEEDS to die!

  62. Don’t you guys think your being just a little too harsh?

    P.S.: JPUA, that Hinata dying talk is something I find very insulting, I believe the best anime relationship is when both survive.

  63. Xeras that was mainly me on the hinata should die,

    though I want sakura to get owned by sasuke I doubt she’ll die…

    And I hate Hinata more than Sakura

  64. LOL NICE BOB LOVE TH3 KAKASHI PREZ THING!

  65. @JPUA, the same reason i hate Sakura, Kurenai is useless. The only worthy ninja from her team is Shino…..

  66. @tsukage, sakura= slug summoning= WTF,
    we’re discussing real actions here, being student of TSUNADE doesn’t mean she can use evrything her master knew next time i can see it coming frm u sakura using CHIDORI as she was student of kakshi too.lol

  67. sakura’s ace weapon can only be a DEATH KISS, that if only sasuke agrees to sleep with her and that’s not possible with karin around.lol……..

  68. Why not Kiba? And Hinata isn’t totally useless, she can do many things and after all a Byankugan eye is sth good to have in one’s team.

  69. @ kisu, Kurenai’s only useless cuz she’s pregnant, that Asuma’s fault. and the reason she lost to Itachi is cuz that was Itachi besides, Kiba’s a descent fighter and Hinata’s a good tracker, but not so much a good fighter (but that’s cuz Hiashi and Neji were dicks to her as a little kids so she doesn’t have a high enuf saelf esteem) and i feel if she just gets in a little more practice she’d easily surpass them.
    @ xeras, i want both of them to survive, but what i said was really the only way to avoid a 500 comment arguement w/ mart

  70. Really Good chapter but if everyone pays attention whom ever is trained by the hokage ends up becoming hokage in some shape or form even if it is temporary hense kakashi ending up being the next logical answer just look at it 1st 2nd trained the 3rd the 3rd trained the legendary 3 the 4th trained kakashi and kakashi trained naruto as well as jiraya and naruto trained the 3rds grandson cant remember is name off the top of my head but it all falls into place if you think about it

  71. “Kurenai is useless. The only worthy ninja from her team is Shino…..” gotta agree here, Kiba is the worst of the taijutsu specialists and that’s all he has shown. Besides Hinata’s “self esteem” issues, she also lacks neji’s skill level despite being trained by her father ( which she failed out of) so she’s really only a weaker version of him to play a female role. Kurenai is the newest jounin leader, and got owned in the one fight she was in.

  72. Finally, someone gets me! Thanks mart, glad you agree. The only screen time Kurenai got was in that filler arc back in Part 1. Kiba really isn’t all that special and Hinata was trained by the clan’s leader (while Neji basically trained himself) and she’s still weak. It still bothers me that she attacked Pain when she was so much weaker than him ugh!
    Nice to see we’re on the same page when it comes to Sakura JPUA 8)

  73. @ mart and kisu, sorry, this will b a rant, and will mostly concern Hinata, ut i think u need to b reminded about a few things in reference to her and Kurenai: first off, u need to know your basing your opinions off of them attacking 2 of the most powerful antagonists the series has ever known: Pein and Itachi. 2nd, on Hinata being trained by Hiashi, Hinata seems like the kinda person that needs positive reinforcment, and Hiashi seems like the kinda person that only gives negative reinforcment, so it’s simply a poor match-up of training method needed and training method used. and Kurenai couldn’t help cuz she doesn’t kno anything about the Hyuuga’s jutsus. and on ” It still bothers me that she attacked Pain when she was so much weaker than him ugh!” yes, she was weaker, but Jiraiya was weaker than him, that’s kinda hard to beat. plus, ppl say Neji’s more skilled than her, but she has more than 10 times the range in her Byakugan, and in fillers (don’t give me any shit about them being fillers, they’re still an official part of the franchise) she had 64Palms Gaurd which is by far the best Hyuuga jutsu EVER and she used 32 Palms, but was able to do as much damage as Neji does w/ 64 Palms, implying that she has much better knowledge of the human body that she needs only half as many attacks to do the same damage. as far as Kurenai losing to Itachi, what do u expect?! that guy nearly killed both Kakashi and Orochimaru just by looking at them!! so of course Kurenai couldn’t win. your arguments are about them fighting over-powered enemies, (yes, Hinata lost to Neji, but again, she had a shit trainer, and that was years ago), so stop complaining!

  74. about Kiba being a bad fighter, ehh, i can’t really give any arguments for him other

  75. “she has more than 10 times the range” it hasn’t shown neji’s max range to my knowledge. “best Hyuuga jutsu EVER” Nah, the best is neji’s empty palm, which would blow through the guard, and it’s a REAL jutsu (not filler crap, it says something when people only have filler jutsu, what it says is Kishimoto doesn’t care about them because they are weaklings) ” a poor match-up of training method” Naruto, Neji, and Sasuke all had crappy trainers, and yet still managed to TEACH THEMSELVES A-S Rank jutsu ex. Naruto learned; Shadow Clone, Rasengan, and Odama Rasengan pretty much by himself. Neji taught himself ALL of his jutsu. Sasuke taught himself several variations of chidori and advanced his sharingan control on his own. ” but was able to do as much damage as Neji does w/ 64 Palms, implying that she has much better knowledge of the human body that she needs only half as many attacks to do the same damage” I thought she failed that jutsu (it had no effect on Guren/fluid person) and I see 32 as half the power/ability of 64. Neji also has the more powerfull byakugan and can target the tenketsi (sp?) while Hinata can’t and thus HE has a greater knowledge of the body.

  76. Kisu. Check the author’s lounge, I have an idea for you to check out.

  77. mart, okay, so u don’t stop reading half-way thru, here’s my MAIN complaint about what u r saying: u r basing this off of 2 fights, 1 that was several years ago, and 1 where she fought a guy who knows atomic-bomb-no jutsu, so u can’t really complain she hasn’t won that many battles when the only contemporary opponant she faced was the strongest character to b alive during the series’ time frame. this, you’ll probably ignore, but i want u to read anyways: fillers r part of the franchise and should b taken into consideration since they directly expand on the series and r meant to provide more insight into character’s personalityies and backgrounds w/ as little contradiction w/ the manga as possible (there r occasional contradictions, but that can’t b helped, especially since the contradictions happen like this: the filler says somthing and 3 years later the manga says somthing slightly contradicting), Air Palm hasn’t shown as much power as 64 Palms Gaurd which stopped a cave-in. i got Hinata’s 32 Palms = Neji’s 64 Palms from the Narupedia site: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Eight_Trigrams_Thirty-Two_Palms “NO LESS EFFECTIVE”. Hinata’s Byakugan has a range of somewhere from 8-10 kilometers (8000-10,000 meters) and Neji’s is 800 meters. Hinata did teach herself some jutsu (64 Gaurd, Lion Thrust), they just aren’t instant kill-no jutsus (and neither r any of Neji’s jutsus). ALL Byakugan can target tenketsu, not just Neji’s, he just happened to b in more fights so he’s really the only 1 who had a chance to demonstrate it’s full extent

  78. i just realized i didn’t need that huge rant to defend Hinata: if she reall wanted to, she could just preform a hand seal to activate Neji’s curse mark and destroy his eyes XD that’s what i would’ve done in the chunin exams if i were her just to get him to shut the f up

  79. @JPUA, sigh. There are 32 major Tenketsu, and many less important ones. Attacking only the main 32 would be as effective as the 64 Palms in closing off the chakra flow, but the 64 Palms is more effective. The 64 Palms attacks 32 more Tenketsu and can cause further damage to organs etc. Hinata’s range is 10x Neji’s because she is a part of a tracking squad and needs her Byakugan to see large distances. Neji is a close range fighter, so all his Byakugan needs is x-ray vision and 359 degree vision, he doesn’t need to see as far as Hinata. In a fight Neji would decimate Hinata, and now Neji is a Jonin which means Kurenai can’t stop him if he suddenly decides to kill her. By the way, why do you sympathize with Hinata when Neji has had a far worse childhood than her? He even rose to overcome the limitations of side branch members……sigh.

    As for the Hyuga curse jutsu, its only taught to the head of the clan, which means only Hiashi/Hizashi (dont remember which is Hinata’s dad actually) knows it. ANd it isnt likely that Hinata or Hanabi will learn it, as clans like the Hyugas want MALE heads, so its likely that Neji will become the clan’s head in the future (he DOES have main branch blood after all).

  80. “Kurenai is the newest jounin leader, and got owned in the one fight she was in”

    To be fair, she was up against Itachi in that fight, someone who eats guys like Orochimaru for breakfast. The gap on power was just too wide so of course her performance looked horrible.

  81. JPUA, I plan do to a blog on (not specifically hinata) this, so I won’t talk about Hinata’s uselessness until then.

    However, 1. “my MAIN complaint about what u r saying”-Kisu. Was the one who talked about Pein anihilating her, but if not based on those two fights, there is nothing IN THE MANGA to base her abilities off of.

    2. Your oppinion on the fillers are your own, however, 1. Kishimoto doesn’t write them 2. Their purpose is to waste time, so that the anime doesn’t catch up to the manga 3. “expand on the series and r meant to provide more insight into character’s personalityies and backgrounds” How can you expand when all avenues of consideration are closed off at the end of the filler? (all villans are killed, and filler jutsu’s are never used again.) 4. “somthing slightly contradicting” actually, there are few actual contradictions BESIDES the filler characters being much stronger than their non-filler counter parts, using fillers is like using Naruto Accel Games to talk about the game character’s abilities in the manga, again, not really valid.

  82. @JPUA: Point taken, lets hold off on this debate.

  83. Hey guys, good chapter i liked it!! I can understand different people favourites when it comes to characters! I think Hinata and Sakura are vital for the story to progress as it is always those emotional elements that spark conflict between people! Im not saying i like hinata or sakura, infact i really dont like Sakura but i think she is vital for the progression of the storyline to continue at this moment in time! i guess hinata will come back into it at some stages! she may grow stronger and more confident who knows thats the good thing about young characters they are always developing, some more then other obviously!

    With sakura she could of devolped more techniques and skill! ” lets hope so” it will be very interesting to see the development of any of the other konoha 11.

  84. I think now it is 100% certain that Naruto and Sakura will not get together by the end of the series. Even if something dramatic happens, Sakura still said she loved Naruto and didn’t mean it, I would find it hard pressed to see her go to him and say it again and mean it, even if it occurs years down the road (after a time skip).

  85. @ MattMaru, I agree that Sakura can be vital to the storyline. Her death will definitely contribute a lot to the storyline going forward.

  86. @star69, i concur lol

  87. mart, really tired of argueing w/ u, but my opinion is that Hinata isn’t useless, and even if she isn’t currently as strong as Neji, she’s still (in my opinion) smarter than him (i don’t wanna get into much detail about how Neji showed the intellectual capacity of a gold fish in all his fights). besides, maybe Neji just learns better alone and Hinata needs some guidance in her training to become a mindless killing machine, there’s nothing wrong w/ that.
    @ kisu “By the way, why do you sympathize with Hinata when Neji has had a far worse childhood than her?”, easy, Neji is really just a Sasuke who’s loyal to Konoha. don’t tell me u didn’t notice they have practically the same personalities? and Sasuke has had a WAY worse childhood than Neji has. besides, Neji had a better life than Hinata in these ways: he was honored by his class (like Sasuke was) while Hinata was just a background character; he mastered jutsu fairly quickly; and he didn’t have a dick-ass cousin w/ major superiority problems wanting him to b dead multiplied by the # of times he breathed like the cousin Hinata had. his dad died and his uncle didn’t care much, but Hinata was treated like shit by her dad, got kidnapped, and had her cousin (whom she affectionatly refers to as an older brother) wanting to kill her for somthing that she couldn’t help in any way whatsoever. so, basically Neji represents the absolute worst that can happen to a kid w/ a disfunctional family, and Hinata represents how a kid in a disfunctional family could still b a good person
    @ star, totally, if she died, that would do miracles for this manga

  88. “Neji had a better life than Hinata in these ways: he was honored by his class (like Sasuke was) while Hinata was just a background character;” why is that? BECAUSE HE TRAINED HIS ASS OFF TO PROVE HE’S THE BEST! Hinata just stalked Naruto.

    “and he didn’t have a dick-ass cousin w/ major superiority problems wanting him to b dead multiplied by the # of times he breathed like the cousin Hinata had”- maybe not, but he DIDhave an uncle that brought his own brother to his knees in fromt of him. An uncle whom he thought gave up his own brother to save his own life.

    “his dad died and his uncle didn’t care much, but Hinata was treated like shit by her dad, got kidnapped, and had her cousin (whom she affectionatly refers to as an older brother) wanting to kill her for somthing that she couldn’t help in any way whatsoever.”- his dad loved him, which made the pain of losing him even worse. The clan he respected and loved had betrayed him by taking the person he loves the most from him and then they went as far as making him a caged animal.

    I’d argue that he had a worse childhood than Sasugay, but that would make this comment even more lengthy.

  89. @kisu now that I think about it u are right

  90. Well, I believe that Sasuke had a worse childhood than Neji. It it true that Neji lost his father in a younger age (4 years old) and he thought it as his uncle’s and whole clan’s fault, but at least his entire clan was not killed by a clan’s member and he didn’t hate Hinata that much to kill her, because before their fight he warned her to give up. If he did wanted to kill her, he would just rush to her from the first moment and finish that battle in a second.

    Sasuke lost his entire world when he was 7 years old by the person he admired (and loved?) before anyone else. To see your brother’s cold face beyond your parents’ corpses is not sth light and acceptable by a young child. He therefore hated his brother so much that he left Konoha and followed Orochimaru, while his friends were almost killed for his sake. (And what was his “thanks”? “How thoughtful of them!” and then beat Naruto to death!)

    Well, my point is that Sasuke had one of the worst childhoods in Naruto history, but on the other hand, when Neji learned the truth about his father he accepted it and became much better and not so arrogant. He now loves Hinata and even the clothes he wears show his attachment to his clan. While Sasuke, when he learned the (ugly) truth, he became much worse, a real demon that wanted “the complete and utter destruction of Konoha”. Come on, boy, at least respect your brother’s sacrifises and wishes and come back to Konoha!

  91. lol Well it certainly would spark allot of emotional peaks from Naruto and the Konoha 11 if she was to be killed by the hands of Sasuke thats for sure and it would break all bonds between naruto and sasuke too! would it develop Naruto into a better ninja with that Revenge set in his heart though? I think Kishi has a more gallant way of creating Naruto’s character other then revenge which he has used for sasuke!

  92. Well, I know we all want a Naruto-Sasuke showdown… but what about a reprise (that means happening again) of the Sannin battle? It would be Sasuke versus Naruto and Sakura, just like the original Sannin in part 1. I feel like this would be a great thing to happen within the story… I think the Naruto-Sasuke battle will happen one day as Madara/Tobi has said, but I think it is too soon for that to happen.

    As to Sasuke/Neji and all that; there is one person who thinks that his situation is WAY worse than anything anyone else has ever had to put up with… and that’s Sasuke. No one could ever convince him otherwise. And in fact, until Itachi’s death, his brattiness was probably a little justified. Now that Sasuke nows the truth, as we do, his past is still twisted, but it is not as bad as he thought.

    The same can be said for Neji, he made assumptions based on what evidence the family and village showed him, and as a result he hated his clan and acted in defiance, though his clan and the village probably gave him leeway because they knew the truth. Eventually, Neji was shown the truth and he has been trying to redeem himself ever since.

    So my conclusion is that Neji and Saskue’s pasts are……. THE SAME! Yes, I believe they both contain an equally difficult mental burden, and both of them had a support structure they could turn to once they learned the truth. The difference is that Neji stopped being an idiot.

  93. erm… I should have said the difference is Neji grew up, but I got carried away.

  94. @ Ripcord,

    A new generation-Sannin fight would be somewhat cool. But Sakura is far from the level that Naruto and Sasuke are on, so she would just be a spectator or get in the way a la Hinata.

    I highly doubt this will happen because
    a) Sakura’s too weak (what I said above)
    b) Sakura will be long dead 😉

  95. ok, didn’t want to have to say this but……no choice. Neji had believed in his clan ever since he was born, then the clan betrayed him, leaving him feeling ‘outside’. He was ‘outside’ because the clan had killed the one person he loved and he had to re-think and reevaluate his clan’s meaning to him. But then suddenly, they branded him with a curse, a curse he’ll have to live with. So for the next 9 years he believed there was nothing out there for him and believed his clan turned their backs on him. Basically, he was alone after his dad died (don’t say he had Tenten, cuz she’s even useless in cheering ppl up). Sasuke had a bad childhood, but at least he believed his clan was noble and loved him, in that sense, Itachi was ‘outside’, not Sasuke. He was lonely by choice. So basically, Neji grew up, Sasuke didn’t (STILL B*TCHING ABOUT HIS CLAN EVEN THOUGH KILLING THEM WAS THE RIGHT THING!).

  96. @star69, agreed. Sakura isn’t Jonin level (I’d say she’s just better than the average Chunnin), let alone Naruto and Sasuke’s Kage level. There’s no way she’d last long in that fight. I can see her being blown away and knocked unconscious by collateral damage from a Rasenshuriken, or being struck by Chidori Nagashi 2 seconds into the fight lol. Can she even summon Katsuyu? Btw, Sasuke has probably lost his snake summoning abilities since he hasn’t used any since Orochimaru’s extraction from him. In a Sanin next gen fight, who’d Sasuke summon anyway? HE got Manda killed….

  97. JPUA: I had a snow day today, so I saw this on Naruwiki: “Each set of strikes is done at an exponentially increasing pace and strength. The attack not only disables the enemy but also knocks them back with every set of strikes. In the anime, a minor version of this technique is called the Eight Trigrams Thirty-Two Palms technique, and the doubled version of this technique is called the Eight Trigrams One Hundred Twenty-Eight Palms technique” Basically what it is saying is that though 32 strikes stops chakra flow, it deals less damage, is slower, and lasts a shorter time than the 64 strike version.

  98. Kisu. I think there is going to be a next gen. fight but it will play out more like this: Team Sasuke starts to fight Team Sakura, Team Sakura loses (duh) So Team Naruto steps to save her (defeats the SLIGHTLY tired team Sasuke) leading to Team Sakura trying to kill Sasuke (oh look they weren’t all the way down) and it just devolves from there. I doubt Kishi would do another snake-slug-toad fight. Though the snakes probably wouldn’t be too mad at Sasuke (they play by the kill or be killed rules) he just got the MS, it’s like shooting a pistol when you could use an rpg. Maybe some day he will have a use for the summon, but why bother?

  99. I wasn’t saying the fight would happen EXACTLY like before, that would be kindof boring. Each of the Sannin’s pupils are not the same as the Sannin’s themselves…. except Sakura is basically a Tsunade clone.

    What abilities, other than the seal on her forehead, did Tsunade have that Sakura lacks? Yes, battle experience, but I think all 3 of them lack that in some way or another. I agree that Sakura is the least skilled of the 3 of them, but in some ways Tsunade wasn’t really the kind of fighter to take on Jiraiya or Orochimoru.

  100. !SPOILER ALERT!

    Seems Danzou’s arm is packed full of sharingans…
    How utterly lame, I’m sick of hearing about the sharingan all the time. I’m wondering how he’ll be able to use all those, whether he retains the abilities of all those he stole from, or if the strain on his body limits him. I figure since they’re not connected to his brain like eyes normally should be, then he may use them in a different way. Don’t know, though I wish Madara would kick his ass, but yet again he pulls out Sasugay for humiliation once more, so Danzou will most likely get away in the end.

  101. Tsunade also knew a lightning based jutsu, the slug summoning, and random medical ninjutsu that Sakura didn’t.

  102. @Ripcord, Tsunade hasn’t been given that much fight time in the manga – prob something to do with male superiority complex in Japan. Anyway, it’s stated and implied throughout the series that she can hold her own in fights. I’m not saying she’s on the same level as Jiraiya or Orochimaru, but she’s probably not that far off. Styles make fights, so maybe she could defeat any of them in a one on one… I mean Jiraiya couldn’t take out Orochimaru and prevent him from invading Konoha, but yet he was able to fight on par with Pain for a good length of time…

    With regards to the spoiler alert, usually the fact that the spoiler is out is announced… not a summary of the spoiler… anyway, I’ve seen the scants and yea it’s getting interesting.. Sasuke yet again seems to have recovered from his injuries to fight another day. I wouldn’t doubt if he’s twice as powerful as the last time we saw him… we all know that Uchiha’s get stronger each time they are beaten up 😉

  103. Oh yea, another point to back Tsunade, she’s the Hokage damnit… this means that she meets a minimum skill/power/defense/offense/whateveryoucallit requirement. This is needed in order to effectively defend the village. Kishi just hasn’t given her any screen time to show off her fighting abilities, but instead has focused on her other attributes.

    For instance, did any of us really think the Third was a badass before his fight with Orochimaru? I sure as hell didn’t!

    Also, having said that, I think Kakashi is too weak to be Hokage. In terms of strategic/tactical qualities, he definitely meets the bar, but in terms of being the guy to go 1 on 1 with the bad guy… unfortunately Kishi made Kakashi peak way too early in the manga. But this is rant for another day…

  104. Okay I’m not reading any of these comments (sorry, too many) so if someone’s already posted this sorry, but I think Danzo’s arm looks like that of a puppet. Maybe it has some sort of special ability like Sasoris did?

  105. @star69, “I wouldn’t doubt if he’s twice as powerful as the last time we saw him… we all know that Uchiha’s get stronger each time they are beaten up ;-)”- I see you are a DBZ fan (glad to know I’m not the only one here lol), funny reference though. Anyway, I have to disagree with you on the Kakashi thing. If Gaara can make Kage, why not Kakashi?

  106. @ Kisu, I think Gaara is a level or two (whatever that means) stronger than Kakashi. My beef with Kakashi’s selection is that when it comes down to a solo battle (Third v. Orochimaru, Fourth v. 9 Tails controlled by Madara), he won’t be able to hold his own. Otherwise, his intellect and temperament are definitely fit for the kage title.

    For the record, Kakashi and Itachi are my favorite characters in the manga, so I’m not bashing Kakashi at all. I’m just not a fan of how Kishi capped Kakashi’s ability so early in the manga (reminiscent of Piccolo in many ways).

    And I’m glad you see thru my sarcasm… tone of speech doesn’t come thru very well over the net in blog form.

  107. “he won’t be able to hold his own.” it’s not like Tsunade really “held her own” against Pain, all she did was shout “Naruto!” (or does that count as a summoning jutsu?)

  108. @ Mart1: touche. That didn’t do Tsunade any justice, but in her defense, one can argue that she dispersed her chakra to the entire village, thus she wasn’t in top form. It’s a pretty crappy excuse in my opinion. And yea, I think Kishi should have given Tsunade some more respect by having her hold her own until Naruto showed up.

    But doesn’t that fact make it more apparent that a Hokage needs to be able to hold his/her own? Or should the advisors/council make the same mistake and appoint some1 who will get their asses kicked in a 1 on 1 situation like Pain almost did to Tsunade?

  109. Anyway, don’t wanna open up a can of worms here… just wanted to throw out some food for thought.

    If nothing else, Hokage Kakashi will have access to the scroll of forbidden jutsu and be able to use the sharingan to quickly learn and master a few of those techniques 🙂

  110. @star69, kakashi is easily an S-class ninja, and I’d say he’s stronger than Gaara. Gaara got beat by Deidara, while Kakashi was able to hold his own against BOTH Hidan and Kakuzu. Plus all his years of experience + Kamui (the dimension jutsu) + the hundreds of jutsus he’s copied = he’s better than Gaara. If Gaara still had the Shukakau I would never say this of course lol. Btw, I’m not saying Kakashi can beat insanely strong ninjas like Pain, but he CAN beat strong ninjas like Kakuzu (he did take out two of his hearts).

  111. Anyone who thinks that sakura could actually kill sasuke is delirious… sasuke can defeat sakura with his hands tied behind his back, his feet tied to his hands, his eyes closed, and his ears and nose shut. Hell, he could BREATHE on her and she would die.

  112. @ Kisu:
    Gaara lost to Deidara but remember he was fighting in the heart of the city and had to protect his citizens, or else Deidara would not have beat him.

    Yea Kakashi was impressive holding his own against Hidan and Kakuzu while babysitting 3 ppl at the same time. But Kishi decides to make a point by having him get pwned easily against the likes of Itachi and Pain… and making Kakashi shit his pants when Orochimaru confronted him in the Chunnin exam arc (albeit this was 3+ years ago).

    The point I’m trying to make is that by making Kakashi shit his pants in front of Orochimaru, he pretty much capped Kakashi’s ability or else stuff won’t make sense anymore in terms of ability levels across the manga.

    For example: Kakashi intimidated by Oro implying Oro being much stronger than Kakashi… later, Kishi knocks Oro down a few notches when new villians show up while Kakashi is able to hold his own against some of them, but yet unable to touch Oro…

    I don’t know… I guess all this falls into the “styles make fights” category… but the inconsistencies in levels of ability gets annoying.

  113. @ Kisu, also, Kakashi + 2 fat guys got pwned by 1 1/2 Pains, while Jiraiya fought the Pains on par for a period of time. They both fought the same ninja, so this is pretty much the closest to a hypothetical benchmark comparison we can make.

    So, in conclusion from the above, Kakashi is quite a few levels below Jiraiya (pretty obvious even without me stating the above). I’d also say that after 3 years, he’s still a few levels below Orochimaru.

    So of these Akatsuki – Sasori, Deidara, Hidan, Kakuzu – who can Kakashi take 1 on 1?

    Remember, he took out 2 of Kakuzu’s hearts because of 1) a diversion from his 3 team mates so he could hide and ambush Kakuzu, and 2) Shikamaru’s plan to bottle up Kakuzu’s blood. Come to think of it, he did hold his own against the Team Zombie, but he was basically playing defense the whole time. Still impressive since he was protecting his 3 teammates at the same time.

  114. Well, I think that being Hokage contains 2 equal parts, the first is a good strategist, which Kakashi DEFINITELY has and probably better than anyone except the Nara clan.

    He isn’t the strongest one, mostly because his chakra levels don’t allow him to just pound out techniques, but Kakashi is able to come up with a technique for any situation, plus he has some more original jutsus of his own now (lightening dog, rising dog earth wall), and so far it has been demonstrated that he can use every element other than wind (and the 6th element whatever that is…).

    Comparing Kakashi to the 3 Sannin isn’t really fair for two reasons: 1. They have HUGE chakra reserves, way bigger than almost every ninja we’ve seen in the manga. 2. They are almost 30 YEARS OLDER! which means they have that much more experience and time to develop jutsus.

    I think that Kakashi is a great leader and he would give his life for the village, so I’m with Bob. Kakashi has my vote. Besides, who else would you pick?

  115. @ ripcord, I totally agree. Everything you said backs up my point, which is that Kakashi would not be able to hold his own in a 1 on 1 with the top tier villains because of the limitations Kishi placed on him.

    Also, with regards to the Sannin’s experience advantage, that can be debunked by citing Naruto, Sasuke, Pain, Itachi, etc. They are all stronger than at least 1 Sannin but have way less experience.

    But I support the Kakashi choice since he is the most suitable of all the remaining ninja to captain the ship… unless you consider Shikamaru’s dad. We don’t know much about him besides him being a council member and a senior jounin.

  116. I don’t think Shikaku would take the Hokage post if it was offered because he is probably as lazy as his son deep down. Also, he is more of a support type.

    Regarding younger ninjas having more experience, Nagato is actually older than Kakashi I believe (plus he has the Rin’negan… not exactly a fair comparission) because Jiraiya was still young when he trained Nagato, and Kakashi wasn’t born yet I would surmise. Jiraiya was much older when Minato was just a genin. I give you Itachi because well… he had the potential to be Hokage himself if fates had been kinder to him. As far as Sasuke and Naruto, I still think Kakashi could outsmart them both.

    I think that Kakashi still has a lot of unlocked potential, especially since his father was regarded as strong as the Sannin. Although, I would like to see him come through a fight sometime soon without having to use his trump card….

  117. Although now that I think about it, Kakashi not using the MS is getting to be like Naruto not using the Rasengan.

  118. Btw, I was comparing Nagato to the Sannin, not Kakashi.

    Also, I think there are two types of growth in this manga: 1) growth by experience/age/hardwork (for the majority of ppl) and 2) growth by genius.

    For #1, the best example is Jiraiya. He was much stronger before he died than back in the war days when he fought Hanzo. Since he didn’t possess naturally gifted (genius) qualities, he achieved his growth thru experience and hardwork. I think Tsunade (even tho she’s a descendant of the Senju) and the White Fang probably belong in this group as well.

    For #2, see Pain, Itachi, Sasuke, Minato, and to a lesser extent Oro. They were the Jordan’s and Gretzky’s of their time.

    For Kakashi, he was built up as a genius (#2 growth) ninja when he was a kid. I don’t know if it’s the Sharingan’s fault, but it seems that he hasn’t reached his potential given that he’s the genius of his generation. Minato and Oro are the geniuses of their time and they both seem way stronger than Kakashi.

  119. I agree that Kakashi now is stronger than Kakashi of 3 years ago. His current growth seems to be mainly thru experience and hard work.

    And btw, the White Fang was categorized as stronger than the Sannin… but the Sannin of 20+ years ago.

  120. Naruto has to save Sasuke because he already made a promise to Itachi. Itachi already put all his trust into Naruto, his last resort to saving Sasuke life. If Naruto give up now he’d be letting Itachi and himself down. Plus I wanna see what kinda power Itachi gave Naruto.

  121. @star69, seriously, of all the ninja in the Naruverse, how many Pains are there? It’s not everyday a villain gets so overpowered. I say Kakashi could defeat any Akatsuki member in a one on one fight except Itachi and Pain (not counting Tobi or Zetsu). And think about it, in all of Kakashi’s fights he’s always babysitting, the only time we get to see him fight without these limitations is in filler arcs. And I did already say that Kakashi won’t be able to defeat EXTREMELY strong villains like Pain, but he’s shown he can take on S-rank criminals. And really, what Kage could take on Pain? Pain is a freak of nature power-wise.

  122. Just read the newest ch. And man its sweet. Won’t spoil it for u guys but that danzo is pretty freaky

  123. @kisuzachi

    I totally agree with you…. except Kakashi was able to go all out against God Realm. If it had been just Kakashi vs. God Realm, I would bet that Kakashi would have eventually come up with a plan to bring him down on his own, that’s why Nagato brought in Demon Realm, because he knew that God Realm could be in trouble.

  124. @ Kisu,
    Ok let’s take Pain and Itachi out of this.

    -Kakashi still isn’t able to take on Orochimaru alone.

    -You said Kakashi took out 2 of Kakuzu’s hearts, but that only happened because the 3 babies on his team actually did something useful. Alone, it’s debatable if he could take out Kakuzu 5 times. I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m just saying it’s not a “Slam Dunk” like you’re putting it out to be.

    -Hidan: I think most ppl agree this guy’s useless if it wasn’t for his immortality jutsu.

    -Deidara: It was 8 on 1 and Deidara still escaped. Kakashi didn’t exactly babysit Naruto since they ultimately worked as a team to take down Deidara.

    -Sasori: Not enuff evidence to really make a point for or against since he just appeared and was eliminated by his grandma and Sakura.

    -Kisame: after seeing what he did to Kirabe, I’m not sure if Kakashi can take him on. Like Itachi said “Kisame you’ll suffer unneeded damage if you take him on” and “I (Itachi) won’t take as long as Kisame if I do this.” These statements imply that Kakashi can hold his own, but ultimately Kisame would prevail (in Itachi’s opinion).

    -Konan: meh.

  125. I agree Kakashi is an S-Class ninja, but he’s on the lower end of it since the spectrum seems to be (low-end) Hidan to Pain. AGAIN, this is what I’m arguing. I’m not saying Kakashi is crap.

    @ Ripcord, Kakashi had 2 fats guys to back him up… more than enuff to counter the second Pain that showed up. Also, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6… they all equal Nagato. You can’t fault his character for having the ability to control 6 Pains. That’s like arguing that Kakashi would beat Itachi only if Itachi doesn’t have sharingan.

  126. Also, not trying to be a dick, but Kisu you’re the guy who thinks Kurenai is useless based on the 1 fight she had against Itachi.

    Dude this is a huge double standard!

    So we can’t evaluate Kakashi v. Pain or Kakashi v. Itachi fights because those two are too superior and the comparisons will be unfair, but you can evaluate Kurenai’s only fight (against Itachi) and conclude she’s useless??

  127. @star69, lol. I never said Kakashi could defeat either Pain or Itachi. I said that he can be Hokage because how often do ninjas like Pain and Itachi come about? I’d even argue that Kakashi can hold his own against Itachi, until Susanoo comes out that is. And in a one-on-one fight with Deidara, Kakashi has the same advantages Sasuke had + more experience and more jutsus. Kakashi was more focused on keeping Naruto from transforming when they were hunting Deidara AND he had terrible control of his MS back then, but this has improved as he was able to teleport something as small as a finger. Kakashi is only 30 (that’s 23 years younger than the Sanin, and 39 years younger than the Third), and with each battle he improves in a Sasuke-esque fashion. Given even three more years on the job, I’d say Kakashi would be able to contend with the Naruverse’s super heavyweights.

  128. @ Kisu, LOL.

    I’m not doubting Kakashi’s greatness. I never said he can’t be Hokage… just that he’ll have trouble holding his own in 1 on 1 situations against the heavyweights.

    Further, if Itachi wanted to kill him, Kakashi would have been long gone after that first encounter. There are no redos if your opponent can kill you. Plus 30% of Itachi held off Naruto plus Kakashi for an extended period of time. Your argument for Kakashi holding his own v. Itachi will not be a good one… without the use of ad hominem attacks lol.

    Also, remember Kakashi might know 1000+ jutsu, but he can only use a few of them before he runs out of gas.

    Sasuke also has the sharingan, so who’s to say he doesn’t know a crap load of jutsus as well? We know that he improved on chidori making it into a few variations plus he could fly with his CS2… thus being able to close in on Deidara. Kakashi can’t fly/glide or extend his chidori, so he’ll be at a disadvantage against Deidara.

    And your statements about his young age totally fits with what I said about him up top. Kakashi will improve with time/experience just as Jiraiya did.

  129. Kisu, I think for the most part we’re on the same side.

    Anyway time to get some studying done. I’ll check the forum later. Cheers.

  130. “appoint some1 who will get their asses kicked in a 1 on 1 situation like Pain almost did to Tsunade?” there are two choices: Danzo or Kakashi (Naruto isn’t ready) in my oppinion, Danzo is off the table as of chap. 475, so in Kakashi’s defense 1. What Kisu. said about deidara 2. Sasori he could analyze the movements via sharingan 3. Kisame: he knows earth and lightning (kisame’s weak elements) as well as genjutsu (Kisame’s weak point) 4. Oro. He did shit his pants yes, but Orochimaru retreated (I say draw/ fighting style thing) 5. I think saying “well he’s a good ninja even if he can’t take on the super powered ninja” is stupid, newsflash! Their ALL super powered (this goes for Kakashi, as well as Kurenai/Hinata) 6. I think Kakashi to Pein is like lance armstrong to John seina, he is less like the 1-3+5 hokags and more like Minato (skilled rather than strong) so I say hope & sharingan’s!

  131. @ Mart1, no arguments about the two choices. And Naruto is definitely not mentally ready for the job.

    As for your Kisame argument… Kirabe was pretty adept at lightning jutsus as well… look where that got him. And Kisame knows earth. Plus Kisame had Samehada which will probably absorb Kakashi’s low reserves. It’ll be a tough fight. I’d say Kisame wins… and Itachi does too 😉

    And you’re saying Oro retreated cause he wasn’t sure he could take on Kakashi? WTF? U serious dude?

    5- They are all strong ninja? This is pretty subjective. Kurenai is crap compared to Itachi and Pain, but is strong compared to Konohamaru.

    Newsflash: Strong is just someone who sucks at being weak. A weak person is just a poor man’s version of a strong guy.

    And who’s John Seina?

    I’d say Kakashi is a good mix of both skill and strength. Minato was a pure genius. Who said that he wasn’t strong?

  132. @star69,He meant Kakashi’s lightning counters Kisame’s Earth Style and that Kakashi’s Earth Style counters Kisame’s Water Style. I dont know who’d win, but it wouldn’t be like the fight with Guy, that’s for sure.

    And I think he meant John Cena (the most overrated wrestler of our time)

  133. LOL John Cena… wow I didn’t expect a wrestling reference…

    Anyway, can’t wait til this week’s blog post by Bob.

  134. wat i think is thts madara little brother izuna

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