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The Strongest Ninja! – Part 2

Post Author: Kisuzachi

Hello. Last time I did this I left out two of the Sanin, so before I get to the Akatsuki, let’s finish up here.

Jiraiya….not much to say about him, other than he’s immensely strong, but I’ll try. Jiraiya said he came close to dying only twice (once when he peaked on Tsunade, and the second time when Naruto’s Four Tailed Form attacked him), now that’s impressive, considering he’s been on 614 A-rank and 138 S-rank missions (1800+ if you include D-B rank). Jiraiya has been said to be able to improve upon any jutsu he learned. When it comes to jutsus, Jiraiya has a Toad for every situation, not to mention his Katon-Oil jutsus and his Doton. His Fuinjutsu (Sealing Techniques) is impressive as well, as he was able to create a Seal to suppress Naruto’s Kyubi chakra. As impressive as all of these are, what impresses me most about Jiraiya isn’t so obvious. All of his students grew to be Kage level or the highest rank of Jonin, two of them even becoming leaders of their respective Villages (Minato-Konoha and Nagato-Amegakure). Statistically speaking, Jiraiya is the strongest Sanin; Ninjutsu: 5, Taijutsu: 4.5, Genjutsu: 3, Intelligence: 4.5, Strength: 4.5, Speed: 4.5, Stamina: 5, Sealing: 4.5, giving him a total of 35.5.

Orochimaru was a very special ninja. He was so strong that the Third Hokage thought no-one in Konoha could stop him if he invaded, so strong that he fought Naruto’s Four Tailed Form with no fear and not to mention he was a candidate for the position of Hokage at some point. He is special because unlike other characters, he very rarely used Element-based Ninjutsu, instead he opts to use Snake-based Jutsu, Fuinjutsu and Kinjutsu (Forbidden Techniques), even learning an “Immortality“ Kinjutsu. What one character would call their “Ultimate Jutsu”, Orochimaru would call it “One of my Ultimate Jutsus” (example, Sakon and Ukon summon ONE Rashomon as their Ultimate move, while Orochimaru summons THREE Rashomon as just a defensive wall). When it comes to actual stats, Orochimaru is comparable to a Kage;  Ninjutsu: 5, Taijutsu: 3.5, Genjutsu: 5, Intelligence: 5, Strength: 3.5, Speed: 4.5, Stamina: 3.5, Sealing: 5, giving him a total of 35.

Just some trivia. Orochimaru lost in moments to Itachi (while he was in the Akatsuki) 7 years prior to the Akatsuki meeting in Part 1 (which seems like a plot hole, as Itachi would have only been 11 at the time, and we know he joined Akatsuki AFTER he left Konoha, which he did when he was an ANBU Captain, which means he was at least 13) and lost his arm in the process, yet Itachi didn’t want to fight Jiraiya as “both of them would die”. Then again, Jiraiya lost to Naruto’s For Tailed Form, yet Orochimaru didn’t, in fact he was making sport of it. Which one of them are stronger? You decide. Plot Hole

Initially, I planned to wait until the Kisame-Kirabi battle was over before making the Akatsuki version of “The Strongest Ninja”, but now I’m too excited, I gotta do this NOW!

Here‘s something many of you probably didn‘t know, Kisame graduated Kirigakure‘s Academy at 10 years old (which means he killed his classmate, as it was before Zabuza had done the test). Kisame’s power was once judged by the fact that at 30% he was man-handling Guy, who had to use his very best jutsu to win. That battle is virtually meaningless now. From his performance in the first stage of his battle with Kirabi, we see that he just doesn’t swing Samehada wildly with brute force, he actually has swordsmanship skills. He also has demonstrated how strong he was when he single-handedly defeated Roshi (the Four Tailed Jinchuuriki) and all he said after that battle was, “I’m a bit tired”. Well, after that we are pretty much left in the dark about his abilities, so I’ll let this battle speak for him. His stats are; Ninjutsu: 4.5, Taijutsu: 4.5, Genjutsu: 2.5, Intelligence: 3.5, Strength: 5, Speed: 4, Stamina: 5, Sealing: 3.5, giving him a total of 32.5. Currently he’s 32 years old.

Itachi, well do I really need to say anymore? Ah okay I will. Ever since he was young he was extraordinarily powerful, evidenced by the fact that he became an ANBU Captain at only 13 years old and mastered his Sharingan at only 8 years old. Also, the fact that he beat Orochimaru, Kakashi, and Deidara without much effort also shows his strength. Itachi is a pacifist and preferred to avoid battle, but when he can’t, he instead ends it quickly with a Genjutsu. He makes his hand signs so quickly for his Jutsus that they largely go unseen by his opponents, and he is well-versed in Taijutsu as well, evidenced by how he effortlessly beat Sasuke in Part 1 (Sasuke had gone through heavy Taijutsu training with Kakashi, yet lost to Itachi in mere moments. His stats were: Ninjutsu: 5,  Taijutsu: 4.5, Genjutsu: 5, Intelligence: 5, Strength: 3.5, Speed: 5, Stamina: 2.5, Sealing: 5, giving him a total of 35.5. At the time of his death he was 21 years old.

Deidara’s greatest ability was his intelligence, as he often misdirects his opponents and takes calculated risks to get his opponents into range of his bombs. He is a long-range fighter, but skilled enough to evade his opponents if they should come close to him, such as in his fights with Sasuke and Team Guy. His exploding clay was a very versatile technique, as he could make bombs as big as buildings, or bombs as small as bugs, depending on the situation. He even trained his eye to see through Genjutsu after his quick loss to Itachi. However, what impresses me most about Deidara was his age, 19 years old (16 in Part 1). His stats are; Ninjutsu: 5, Taijutsu: 3.5, Genjutsu: 3.5, Intelligence: 4.5, Strength: 3.5, Speed: 4.5, Stamina: 4, Sealing: 3.5, giving him a total of 32.

Sasori was Deidara’s partner, and according to Deidara, the stronger of the two. Sasori was a puppet master of the highest caliber, as he can move the strings so quickly it appears to be a blur to most opponents (or just Sakura). He was also an ingenious inventor, as he made many of Sunagakure’s puppets, giving him the advantage over other puppeteers as he would know the tricks of his previous puppets. His mastery of puppet-based jutsu is so great that he defeated the Third Kazekage, the most powerful of all the Kazekages. Just like Deidara, Sasori was a long range fighter, and even more adept at avoiding close range battles than Deidara, evidenced by his fight with Chiyo and Sakura, where he continuously revealed new tricks to keep them at bay. He also misdirects his opponents, often times ending with them being poisoned. By modifying his own body into a puppet, Sasori discarded a puppet master’s one weakness. He could now fight at close range, which meant that he was both a long range and close range fighter. His stats are; Ninjutsu: 5, Taijutsu: 4, Genjutsu: 4, Intelligence: 5, Strength: 3, Speed: 4.5, Stamina: 5, Sealing: 4, giving him a total of 34.5. He was 35 at the time of his death.

Kakuzu had decades of experience, and used that to his advantage as he can fight several high level opponents at the same time, while still being in control. He was extremely fast as often times he disappeared from sight when fighting, his physical strength was also impressive (he stopped Choji’s massive punch with one hand and punched down an iron gate). Kakuzu’s intelligence was frightening, as he was able to see through Shikamaru’s strategies, and formulated counters to them (such as when he saw through Shikamaru’s Shadow Possession Jutsu, and without being caught in it). Kakuzu’s most frightening ability was his body structure. He could stretch/separate his limbs, and heal any injury he received in battle, he could also remove any damaged organs he has and replace it with someone else’s. He could control all five elements because of this unique ability, and create beasts from his threads, making him a truly dangerous opponent. His stats are: Ninjutsu: 5, Taijutsu: 4, Genjutsu: 3, Intellect: 4.5, Strength: 4, Speed: 4, Stamina: 4.5 and Sealing: 3.5, giving him a total of 32.5. He was 91 years old when he died.

Hidan was probably the hardest opponent to beat. He was the only “true” immortal in the series, and he used this to his advantage, as he could take risks many combatants wouldn’t for fear of dying. His only weakness was dismemberment, but even that could be transcended by simply sewing himself back together (or being sewed up most of the time). His main jutsu (Curse Technique: Death Controlling Possessed Blood) allowed for the quick, or in Hidan’s case, the slow death of his opponents, as what ever happens to him, happens to them. The only weakness of this jutsu is its need for Hidan to taste his opponent’s blood. He uses his Triple Bladed Scythe to help in this task, as it is meant to inflict simple wounds instead of outright killing (only someone tremendously slow would get hit by it in a straightforward attack). To make it connect with the target, Hidan uses his phenomenal agility, coupled with the scythe’s cable to get a hit. Once this is done, one can consider the fight over. Hidan’s stats are: Ninjutsu: 5, Taijutsu: 4.5, Genjutsu: 3, Intelligence: 3, Strength: 4, Speed: 3.5, Stamina: 5, Sealing: 3.5, giving him a total of 31.5. He was 22 years old when he was incapacitated from battle.

Sorry guys, but Pain, Tobi, Konan and Zetsu couldn’t be in this as either we haven’t seen much of their abilities, or no stats of them were available. However, out of all the Akatsuki members here, I think Kisame and Hidan are the most powerful.


60 Responses

  1. I agree with 99.9% of what you said kisuzachi! Great post dude! In my opinion though, Itachi and Sasori are the most powerful Akatsuki members here.Itachi beat Orochimaru, a SANNIN, without breaking a sweat!He also was trained by Madara and was known as a genius. Itachi’s only real weakness was that his heavier jutsu resided with his MS which drained alot of chakra and made his eyesight bad but if it wasnt for that he’d be nearly unbeatable. I also say Sasori mainly because of his vast acces to puppets and abilities. His fight with Chiyo/Sakura was on of the longest battles in shippuden and he stated he had another 200 puppets in his stock or sum like that.Just imagine having to fight through all that! I say behind them is Kakuzu. He has a lot of experience, knows every element, and you have to kill him five times.FIVE TIMES!! I say kakuzu is the hardest to kill unless you have a bunch of hard hitting jutsu. Besides that, I completely agree with this post but you could have still did one for pain he’s had two big battles now and we all know he is extremely powerful. Hurry up and make part 3 😀

  2. I would want to see a full on battle between a few of these characters:

    1. Orochimaru vs. Jariya (for strongest Sanin) I give it to Jariya.

    2. Hidan vs. Deidara (for in my oppinion, weakest akatsuki [here] ) I give it to Deidara.

    3. Itachi vs. Kisame (for in my oppinion strongest Akatsuki [here] ) I give it to Itachi.

    4. Pein vs. Kakuzu (ever notice how Pein never used offensive elemental techniques?).

    5. FULL POWER Nagato vs. FULL POWER Madara (meaning Nagato has seven bodies and mobility and Madara has the Kyubbi/pre-hirashima skills/space/time teleportation) I give it to Madara, but don’t feel like debating it.

    I think without Kakuzu to help him out, Hidan is a weakling, it’s not THAT hard to dismember someone, Asuma managed it before Shikamaru, only Kakuzu was there to save hidan’s ass. I think there is a reason that there aren’t a whole lot of Jashinists in the world, and the village that Hidan came from quite being a hiden village.

    I think Itachi is the strongest (here) as he could beat any of these other ninja, Deidara he has, Kisame respects him (which makes me think he has), Sasori would just get burnt by amatseru, and even naruto took out Kakuzu. He also has the highest stats here.

    I think Konan could have been put up here, because she probably won’t return/show new jutsu, and is fairly weak compared to the other akatsuki (I put her at average jounin level)

    I can’t wait to see 1. Madara’s battles 2. What else Zetsu can do (I think his spore technique was just a taste, that he might have a doujutsu/sharingan (he recorded battles for Madara somehow, and everyone seems to have a sharingan) and that his two halves have seperate abilities) 3. Pein’s stats (we probably wont see much else from him, but who knows what the databooks will say, I’m thinking he will have 5 for everything) 4. What the Jubii can do/ how insanely powerfull Madara would be as it’s jinkurii.

  3. in my opinion, as far as raw destructive power goes, Pein is the top in Akatsuki and Kisame right after him; as far as intellegence goes, 1 Madara (just speculating), 2 Itachi, 3 Kakuzu; as far as being able to combine the best of both strength and intellegence goes, Itachi es uno y Sasori es dos. so i put Itachi as best Akatsuki over-all being smart, strong, excellent at long- and short-range, exceeding in all 3 major types of jutsu, and just plain being cool. note, this is only when putting all attributes together

  4. “Itachi didn’t want to fight Jiraiya as “both of them would die”. Then again, Jiraiya lost to Naruto’s For Tailed Form, yet Orochimaru didn’t” Orochimaru said if the nine-tails hit him with a chakra cannon he would die, maybe Jariya was just less lucky in avoiding a blow. We also know Jariya survived the attack, which means he had to surpress the beast to some degree. Also, Itachi MIGHT have had other reasons for avoiding Jariya and there is always the A>B/B>C doesn’t = A>C arguement

  5. Itachi is by far the strongest and his only weakness was his love for his little brother.

    He could have very easily ripped out sasuke’s eyes and been able to defeat madara.

    And i think we see in the battle of him vs sasuke when he pulls his amatsura back that he never intended to win that fight.

  6. nice post kisu,
    but i have to disagree on s’thing acording to me itachi is the strongest among the above… check out poll,lol

    another thing don’t u think 3.5 core for strength to kisame is bit low i mean he have RAW strength more than anyone else…
    even GUY and ASUMA mentioned it.

  7. what about zetsu?

  8. @manis, he has 5 for strength, and im not the one making these stats up. They’re from the most recent databook

    @Mart, I say Hidan’s one of the strongest because of his inability to die. And dismemberment only happens to him because Kakuzu’s there. If he wasn’t, Hidan would be forced to think. Also, when it comes to fighting and capturing Biju, there’s no better person than Hidan.

    Also @Mart, I wanted to show both sides of the story there with Orochimaru and Jiraiya. What surprises me though is that no one has commented about the HUGE plot hole I found lol.

    @Profess, I only did this on members that have had they’re stats revealed and showed some abilities.

  9. “Hidan would be forced to think.”- not really his specialty: “Intelligence: 3” I think that Akatsuki are balanced statistically and Hidan drew the short end of the stick here. (I’m going to try and post a table in my next comment)

    and it’s not all that hard to “kill” him besides decapitation/dismemberment, there are other options like genjutsu (his is 3 again) or other forms of immobility like paralysis (through poison or lightning element) or burial (earth element), drowning (deap sea, not just a one time thing, though he could also escape this, so weights would be needed as well as extream pressures)

  10. ninja ninjutsu Taijutsu genjutsu intel strength speed stamina sealing totals

    Hidan 5 4.5 3 3 4 3.5 5 3.5 31.5
    Kakuzu 5 4 3 4.5 4 4 4.5 3.5 32.5
    Partner total 10 8.5 6 7.5 8 7.5 9.5 7 64
    Partner Ave. 5 4.25 3 3.75 4 3.75 4.75 3.5 32
    best 5 4.5 3 4.5 4 4 5 3.5 33.5

    Itachi 5 4.5 5 5 3.5 5 2.5 5 35.5
    Kisame 4.5 4.5 2.5 3.5 5 4 5 3.5 32.5
    Partner total 9.5 9 7.5 8.5 8.5 9 7.5 8.5 68
    Partner Ave. 4.75 4.5 3.75 4.25 4.25 4.5 3.75 4.25 34
    best 5 4.5 5 5 5 5 5 5 39.5

    Deidara 5 3.5 3.5 4.5 3.5 4.5 4 3.5 32
    Sasori 5 4 4 5 3 4.5 5 4 34.5
    Partner total 10 7.5 7.5 9.5 6.5 9 9 7.5 66.5
    Partner Ave. 5 3.75 3.75 4.75 3.25 4.5 4.5 3.75 33.25
    best 5 4 4 5 3.5 4.5 5 4 35

  11. didn’t really work with the table…

    As far as the Orochimaru retcon, I don’t think it matters all that much, just a mistake. THAT or Madara can time travel with his “space/time” ninjutsu but with all three of them dead, I don’t think it matters that much unless Itachi, the secret good guy was actually a secret bad guy, and was in Akatsuki from the begining (maybe ITACHI is Madara!… those uchiha are good at faking their deaths)

  12. @ mart: “maybe ITACHI is Madara!”, lol, maybe we should just say every1 in the Naruverse is Madara and he’s just using an advanced version of Bushin no Jutsu and some seriously major case of multiple identity disorder

  13. Jokes, JPUA, jokes, it’s always J-A-T

  14. Okay, lets all be Honest everyone knows Jiraiya is one of the, if not, the strongest character in the Naruto Universe. Both Itachi and Kisame did not want to face Jiraiya in the manga chapter 144 “persuers” fearing it would end in a draw. The only reason Jiraiya almost died when facing the fourth tailed Kyuubi was because he did not want to hurt Naruto and was only trying to suppress nNaruto’s transformation, on the other hand Orochimaru didn’t even want to even get near the fourth tailed kyuubi all he was doing was using long range attacks and running. Jiraiya is stronger than Itachi, Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru, therefore, Jiraiya is stronger than Orochimaru and the only reason Jiraiya never really beats Orochimaru is because there relationship is no different from Naruto’s and Sasuke’s where Naruto wants to save Sasuke and Sasuke couldn’t care less, so to is the same with Jiraiya and Orochimaru. Pain himself admitted he would never have won against Jiraiya had Jiraiya known about their secret, and this dude was the leader of Akatsuki, Kisame admitted he was no match for Jiraiya and Kisame is going toe to toe with Kirabi, therefore, he is also stronger than the Eight Tail KillerBee. You can’t get anymore obvious than that this dude, Jiraiya was not only incredibly powerful, he was also hilarious, and that thing were Tsunade almost killed him odds are he didn’t even put up much resistance, it was just funny. He was a truly gifted shinobi that only relied on pure talent and training he didn’t even have special advantages like a Kekkei Genkai or a bijuu inside of him or a crazy weapon nor did he experiment on himself like orochimaru he was a nomal dude with strong chakra that could kick ass. To bad we won’t be able to see what he could really do anymore. Sorry for the rant but he was trully the strongest him and the Third Hokage.

  15. i love deidara more than any character in naruto, but obviously itachi is the strongest from the list. and i’d argue to the death that he’s the strongest ninja full stop. stronger than even pain in my opinion. as for the sannin i’d have said orochimaru but after jiraiya’s fight with pain it showed just how strong he is. but soon naruto and sasuke will outmatch anyone.

  16. @John and Danny, I say Pain could beat Jiraiya even if he knew his secret (though it would be a harder battle) and he could ANNIHILATE Itachi!

  17. I don’t know kisu., you make such a big case that “Naruto had help” but if jariya knew Pein’s secret, wouldn’t he be in the same position Naruto was?and in my oppinion, Jariya is the stronger of the two (due to jutsu and inteligence) Naruto just has character sheild.

  18. itachi would have susanoo though. so he could block any of pain’s attacks, seal the bodies. burn most of them with amaterasu and trap the others in tsukiyomi.

    and i didnt neccesarily mean jiraiya could beat pain even if he knew his secret, just that he showed some epically powerful jutsu’s making him the strongest sannin.

  19. @Danny, Susanoo is completely made of chakra, so its fair game for Hungry Ghost Realm.

    About Hidan and Kakuzu….. They were really just scapegoats to show Naruto’s and Shikamaru’s development. Hidan was way too dumb, and Kakuzu could be killed. Had Hidan fought Naruto, there might be a different outcome, and had Kakuzu fought Shikamaru, THERE WOULD DEFINITELY BE A DIFFERENT OUTCOME. Besides, Kishi was low on time so he didn’t even draw the other abilities of Hidan’s scythe, thus making Hidan seem “cheap”

  20. “Hungry Ghost Realm” HGR is suceptible to genjutsu, both Tsukyoumi and Sussano’s.

    “Had Hidan fought Naruto” Naruto would probably still have won because shadow clones don’t bleed. If it had JUST been shikamaru vs. Kakuzu, shika would get owned, but he still might have won if he had switched places with naruto on the team of people battling Kakuzu.

  21. one rasenshuriken would have properly messed up hidan. also when are you announcing who won the invent a jutsu winner mart?

  22. it’s out right now

  23. Almost everyone thinks Itachi is the strongest Akatsuki member, not including Pain or Madara ,and I agree, but if Itachi did not want to face Jiraiya even with the help of Kisame, an accomplished member of Akatsuki, doesn’t that make Jiraiya stronger than Itachi, I know everyone is thinking what about Susanno? What can Jiraiya do against that right? Well as we all know Susanno has major drawbacks and anyone of the Kage level such as Jiraiya can probably figure that out. Jiraiya would probably bombard Itachi with endless sage techniches to the point were Itachi would tire and die due to the strain and let’s not forget that Itachi is not immune to genjutsu, if a shinobi of Pains calibur, as well as leader of Akatsuki and user of the Rinnegan, can get caught with Jiraiya’s Sage Genjutsu or what ever it is called so can Itachi, heck even sasuke pulled some genjutsu during his battle with Itachi. How about Tsukuyomi? well in Sage Mode the users Chakra is constantly changing in quantities making genjutsu of the highest level impossible, since genjutsu requires the manipulation of the targets chakra, right? so Tsukuyomi is pointless and useless. When it comes to Pain I think Jiraiya is stronger, Jiraiya defeated three bodies and there were no visible injuries after having defeated the three bodies, but yes Jiraiya did get caught of guard, since he did not know Pains secret, but even after having his arm cut of and most of his ninjutsu with it, he still managed to put up a decent fight showing us how powerful he was. The only reason Naruto won against Pain was because Pain did not want to kill him, just capture him, which makes it twice as hard to win, its harder to capture someone alive than to kill them. So I don’t think Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya completely, maybe in some aspects, but not entirely, I’m not saying naruto can’t kick ass at the Kage level its just he really hasn’t surpassed Jiraiya. It doesn’t matter what I think, I just state the facts as I see them. Jiraiya the strongest sannin and the strongest character so far, except for the Sage of the Six Paths and maybe full powered Madara to be honest and on that last one, Madara, maybe, a big maybe.

  24. Sorry for the long, long rant.

  25. @Mart, I thought we went through this lol. Susanoo’s blade and form is pure chakra, its not a summon, its a ninjutsu, which means Hungry Ghost Realm can absorb it. Genjutsus probably wont work either considering that there are SIX bodie (six pairs of eyes), 12 Rinnegan eyes (which gives the user the ability to see chakra) and the fact that Nagato can disrupt the bodies’ chakra to break the Genjutsu.

    @John, i wont disagree with you on Naruto ‘beating’ Pain (if you can call what naruto did beating someone), its the point ive been making from months. I think Jiraiya is still stronger than Naruto, but I don’t think Jiraiya was a match for Pain. All of Jiraiya’s techniques can be countered by one of the Paths. And after he lost his arm all he did was capture Animal Realm, and then he died. The better ninja won, Nagato.

  26. jiraiya is the man, he didn’t want to hurt naruto that is why naruto almost killed him and he was in love with tsunade and didn’t fight back when he got caught. come on man look at the filler ep of shippuuden, it really explains alot about jiraiya the even the manga didn’t, so in my opinion he is the strongest ninja that had lived in his time.

  27. @Kisu.: We did, and I conceded defeat, however, after watching the anime of Jariya vs. Pein, it reminded me of a few things 1. “Genjutsus probably wont work” HGR was one of the bodies caught in Jariya’s genjutsu, meaning it can be caught in it, and that Nagato couldn’t effectively “can disrupt the bodies’ chakra” 2. I also don’t think “12 Rinnegan eyes” would be helpfull, the eye’s all share a combined vision, which means if one body sees the hypnotic trigger, all of them do, trapping them all in genjutsu. “seeing chakra” is usefull, but if they are all trapped through their shared vision, none of them can see the disruption to stop it (if they could at all, doujutsu increase the chance of stopping genjutsu, but don’t guarentee it, and Tsukyoumi is the best).

    As far as Sussano goes, I’m saying if Itachi COULD cut him, then HGR wouldn’t be able to stop it, though, another thing this blog showed is that Itachi has a 4.5 in Taijutsu (HGR’s most obvious weakness) HGR is the only reason I thought Itachi couldn’t defeat Pein, with the new information, I think Itachi would anihilate the rest of them with ease.

    However, It’s my oppinion, I was just showing support for John, hoping he would argue it, I don’t really care to say more than this if he isn’t.

  28. @Mart, like i said before, in his battle with Jiraiya, Pain wasn’t caught in a Visual Genjutsu, it was sound-based, which means the Rinnegan was of no use (eyes have nothing to do with hearing), and so far, Itachi only used Visual-based Genjutsu. As for the eyes being connected, don’t u think Nagato can cut whatever connections he doesn’t need. In fact he did so when he was going to use the Giant Shinra Tensei to destroy Konoha. And Susanoo’s blade isn’t solid, its made of pure chakra which means it would have no effect on HGR, HGR could even absorb the ENTIRE Susanoo as it is only a ninjutsu, not a summon.

  29. ninja in this post: strongest to weakest (my opinion):

  30. ggghhh I don’t feel like getting into the debate, however, “don’t u think Nagato can cut whatever connections he doesn’t need.” The reason this isn’t done is because it would leave the body open for as long as the connection is cut. For instance, in the Jariya fight, doing so would end the bodies lives either way, so Pein let them die. Another problem with this, is that if they are all under hypnosis, he wouldn’t neccesarily be able to cut the connection, because he would be where Kakashi was. Also Doujutsu DOES NOT EQUAL GENJUTSU IMMUNITY. The Sharingan/Byakugan have the ability to see genjutsu affecting OTHERS (through their disturbed chakra flow, and the Sharingan is able to help counter Genjutsu because it increases perception (but not because it sees chakra)

  31. I’m glad to see people saw the point I was trying to make when I said Jiraiya was the strongest ninja, out of all the ninjas that have shown their ability so far. The fact that Jiraiya almost die was because he wasn’t putting much of a fight at all, because he loved the two people that almost killed him, namely Tsunade and Naruto, so that really doesn’t count, just like Itachi wasn’t fighting Sasuke for real same thing. Another thing, like Kizu said Jiraiya’s genjutsu is sound based meaning the Rinnegan’s visual abilities have nothing to do and are of no use when it comes to dispelling Jiraiya’s auditory genjutsu since it paralyzed the central nervous system, and even if Nagato severed the connections to the bodies they would be easy pickings for Jiraiya. As someone put it “Doujutsu DOES NOT EQUAL GENJUTSU IMMUNITY”. Realistically, if you expect to face three people and you beat them soundly of course you let your guard down, how is someone supposed to know that three others are going to attack you from the back, and I know its getting old but if Pain admits that they could have never won against Jiraiya, if Jiraiya knew their secret, well thats the only proof anyone should need to know that Jiraiya was the strongest and besides we never really saw all of Jiraiya’s potential after he had his arm amputated. The only thing that I need to know to see if Jiraiya was the strongest, is if Madara had that warping ability when he faced the First Hokage if he did and still got beat by the First Hokage then Jiraiya is the strongest, why you ask? well If the Third Hokage was able to fight Orochimaru, the First and the Second Hokage to a Draw, yes, I said it a Draw, and the First Hokage by himself beat Madara, then Madara would be easy pickings for people like the Third Hokage and Jiraiya, I don’t know if you follow my logic , but think about it, and see if you can follow my reasoning. Now when it comes to who was the strongest between Pain and Itachi, well that’s a hard one because we never really saw all of their potential, Itachi threw the match with Sasuke and Pain just didn’t feel like fighting anymore after Naruto convinced him otherwise, but I give the edge to Pain. Buts lets analyze the skills we know, okay we all know Itachi specialized in visual genjutsu, and his strongest genjutsu was Tsukuyomi, well Tsukuyomi, is really a one or two shot jutsu since it severly strains Itachi, he might get one or two bodies lets say he gets HGR, why? so Susanno can work and that one that revives others, so that they don’t come back each time, for the sake of strategy and assuming he know what each can do. That’s two down and Itachi is probably not seeing straight and has low chakra. Thats four left, he summons Susanno tries to go for God Realm Pain, Susanno would get blown by Shinra Tensei, no one can argue that at this point Itachi is going to pass out. The one that summons just keeps summoning more and more, easy for Susanno, not for Itachi’s body. Each time Susanno tries to attack God Realm Shinra Tensei’s its ass. The strain on Itachi makes him dispel Susanno, hes down, more summonings and that mechanical pain take care of Itachi, game over. Those that think Tsukuyomi would get all of them since they share the same field of vision, you forget that even though they share the same field of vision, they do not share the same chakra network, maybe the source of their chakra, but not the network, and for a visual genjutsu to work each individual chakra network would have to be targeted that mean only two tsukuyomies, if not Jiraiya’s genjutsu would have gotten them all since they can all hear, if not, how could Nagato hold a conversation with Jiraiya? lip reading? I don’t think so. How about Amaterasu, God Realm would Shinra Tensei the flames from his body, lets say he gets two more just for the sake of it, it doesn’t matter which ones, as long as God Realm Pain is around Itachi is screwed, at this point it doesn’t matter Itachi would have died from low chakra levels, two Tsukuyomies, two Amaterasus and Susanno no way he lives. So that’s why I think Pain would win, there’s a reason he was the leader of Akatsuki, like it or not he was the stronger of the two . Its not like I have obsessions with characters, just because I argue for Jiraiya’s sake, that he is the strongest, to no end, its just common sense, Itachi and Pain are also my favorite characters, but none compare to Jiraiya, except the Sage of the Six Paths that dude is unreal. If I didn’t argue that Jiraiya was the strongest, no one would have done so. Sorry for the long rants, but I do not use the computer often, these arguments have to cover a wide range of thing to get some feedback. Again sorry.

  32. @Mart, Genjutsu disturbs chakra flow, so someone that can see chakra flow is effectively immune to visual-based Genjutsu, i.e someone with a dojutsu

  33. kisame is developing into a strong character too, maybe we are underestimating him as well.

  34. “Genjutsu disturbs chakra flow” 1. There are many cases where people can’t break the chakra flow even though they know it is being disturbed ex. Kakashi (who could see chakra with his sharingan) and Naruto. Also, if seeing chakra flow was a counter to genjutsu it should apply to all genjutsu because no matter what they would still be able to supposedly see their own flow, even more so in non-visual genjutsu, because their sight would be less effected. Instead, Pein was caught in a genjutsu and had no defence for it, therefore, seeing the chakra flow had little to know effect on the genjutsu. Visual based vs. Non visual based have little difference, because the chakra disruption’s on the body would still appear in a similar manner

  35. @mart, its called Visual-based because it traps you through the eyes, if ur eyes are caught in a genjutsu ur screwed. but having a dojutsu means u can see chakra, i.e. what’s real and what’s not, so ur effectively immune to visual-based genjutsu. But other types affect other senses. The eye wouldn’t be able to see through sound-based genjutsu lol

  36. lazy boy

  37. “what’s real and what’s not” not neccesarily, Pein actually “saw” the sound based genjutsu in the anime. Also, “u can see chakra” this means you would see the attack, but doesn’t mean you could stop it’s effects, you could see “oh shit, he’s going to use doujutsu, because he has chakra in his eyes” but this wouldn’t make you see through the genjutsu. The reason it is “visual-based” or “sound based” is because of the hypnotic trigger used to induce the hypnosis. Even if you “see” that your BRAIN is affected, you wouldn’t know how, or have any specific ability to counter it over other ninja. This is PROVEN when we see Kakashi (who has a doujutsu) affected by VISUAL BASED Genjutsu.

  38. @mart1 u cant hurt hidan u posion him he will still live
    i agree with kisu kishi just didnt have any more time he had 2 wrap it up .He is not the strongest but much stronger than deidaara he only has his clay bombs and cheap moves

  39. @Mart, excellent observation Mart. Kakashi KNEW he was trapped in a genjutsu, and he KNEW what was real and what wasnt. But Nagato and Kakashi are worlds apart. If Sasuke can power out of Tsukuyomi, then Nagato can do it with his eyes closed.

  40. 1. Sasuke specifically trained himself to fight of specifically Tsukyoumi for several years building up to his fight with Itachi 2. Sasuke didn’t use the chakra seeing abilities of the sharingan to escape, he used it’s analytical abilities 3. If Pein has to power out of Tsukyoumi anyway, then his ability to see chakra wouldn’t help him, it would just come down to his skill in “genjutsu cancel” and as seen against Jariya, he was bad at this (though you are right, he knew almost immediatley that he was caught, but he couldn’t do anything about it. 4. Kakashi, in terms of Genjutsu seems to be at the same, or a higher level than Pein, seeing as Pein lacked any form of genJutsu and was bad at countering them

  41. @Mart, i specifically heard Ma and Pa toad say that this was their most powerful genjutsu, how does Pain not being able to break THAT SOUND-based Genjutsu automatically make him bad at countering genjutsus? And since you assumed Sasuke specifically trained to counter Tsukuyomi, I too will assume that Pain specifically trained to counter THAT genjutsu.
    “Kakashi KNEW he was trapped in a genjutsu, and he KNEW what was real and what wasnt” but he didn’t have enough power to break it, unlike Nagato. And just because Pain didn’t use genjutsu, doesn’t mean he lacked the ability to use it (example; Sasori never used Genjutsu, but his stats say he can use it) it just means that he never wanted/needed to use it (he also didn’t use elemental attacks, but does that mean he doesn’t know any?).
    “Sasuke didn’t use the chakra seeing abilities of the sharingan to escape, he used it’s analytical abilities” these abilities come from all Dojutsu, as all Dojutsu can see chakra and have improved vision. The rinnegan, which is the most powerful of them all, also has this ability.

  42. “Sasuke specifically trained to counter Tsukuyomi” this is not an assumption he stated it.

    “these abilities come from all Dojutsu” no, it says no where that the renningan has the analytical powers that the sharinga does, otherwise they would be virtually the same. Please show where it says the renningan gives increased analytical ability ex. Reading the opponent’s movements, seeing hand seals etc.

    “their most powerful genjutsu” Itachi is a genjutsu specialist, the toads aren’t therefore Tsukyoumi is the more powerful genjutsu (I think that this has been stated as well) and while “sound based” and “visual based genjutsu are different in the manner they are triggered, the effect and counter are the same, namely, chakra disruption and the genjutsu cancel jutsu. If Pein can’t escape on powerful genjutsu through “shear power” then I fail to see him escaping another one though the same method.

  43. ““Sasuke specifically trained to counter Tsukuyomi” this is not an assumption he stated it.” no he didn’t, he specifically said he “I told you, you can use your eyes on me over and over again, but my hatred for you will make my dream a reality” http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/388/15/ he never said he specifically trained to counter it, so anyone with enough chakra can forcefully break Tsukuyomi (exactly why KAKASHI couldn’t).

    ““these abilities come from all Dojutsu” no, it says no where that the renningan has the analytical powers that the sharinga does”, where exactly did I say it offers THE SAME abilities as the Sharingan? What I mean is that ALL Dojutsu offer improved analytical skills, meaning, they can see what normal eyes cant.

    ““their most powerful genjutsu” Itachi is a genjutsu specialist, the toads aren’t therefore Tsukyoumi is the more powerful genjutsu (I think that this has been stated as well)”- so just because Itachi is a genjutsu specialist means his Genjutsu is stronger? Naruto is a Ninjutsu specialist, yet Itachi’s Amaterasu is stronger than everything he has. Plus the Toad’s genjutsu is a Senjutsu move, which explains its strength. As for Tsukuyomi being the strongest Genjutsu, it was also stated that Amaterasu is the most powerful ninjutsu, yet Nagato has used far more deadly ninjutsus.

  44. @Kisu.: I was refering to the “”I told you,” part here http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/385/10-11/ where it says he uses his sharingan to see through Itachi’s genjutsu and I beleive there is more but I’m pressed for time right now.

    “Naruto is a Ninjutsu specialist” I disagree, naruto may know several high level ninjutsu, but the lack versatility (they are all basicaly the same and only two aren’t close range). Naruto seems to be more of a taijutsu specialist, as all of his ninjutsu skills just serve to augment his taijutsu. A ninjutsu specialist is more like oro. Who has a jutsu for any situation. Also, Itachi’s genjutsu, if not stronger, you must agree is, about the same strength (both being s-rank).

    “ALL Dojutsu offer improved analytical skills, meaning, they can see what normal eyes cant.” no, they don’t, offer improved analytical skills, they may allow the user to view things they otherwise couldn’t but that doesn’t mean they get to have the sharingan’s specific ability to read movement/predict action/observe the surroundings, and this ability, not the “chakra flow” or any of the renningan’s abilities is what is needed to stop genjutsu.

  45. If you can see chakra, you know what’s alive and what’s not, namely illusions. That’s the point I wanted to make, Visual-based Genjutsu wont work on him. The other senses may work, but not visual. And like i said before, he can simply power out of it. Mart, once again…I NEVER SAID IT GIVES PAIN THE SHARINGAN’S SKILLS. Pfft im ending this now because I didn’t even remember what this was about until i read the above comments.

  46. BTW, when i put things in Caps I’m not shouting, those are just the MAJOR THINGS in the sentence. Also, LOL @ ““Naruto is a Ninjutsu specialist” I disagree,”, I found that to be funny lol. I love when other people poke fun at Naruto

  47. OKay kIsu., I think I understand what you are saying, that illusions wouldn’t have chakra, and so the renningan would see through them, though this is incorect, because illusions aren’t made of chakra, and so the renningan would see them the same as the original. The powering out is a matter of oppinion I guess, though all proof goes to show Pein NOT being able to without suffering like kakashi did.

    “THE SHARINGAN’S SKILLS” my point was that the sharingan skills, and NOT the general doujutsu skills are what give genjutsu immunity, so that you can’t say the renningan gives immunity without saying it has those specific skills.

  48. @mart, I wouldn’t say their made of chakra, its just a trick played on the mind. Sasuke used the Sharingan to “see” through the chakra-less Illusions of those Rain Ninja in the Forest of Death, so why cant the Rinnegan do the same? *sigh* this has gotten boring……….

  49. “chakra-less Illusions ” that was a clone jutsu (ninjutsu) not a genjutsu.

    yeah I’m bored too. I’m done with this

  50. Kisu., this is still bushin jutsu, it’s different from things like Tsukyoumi that create an entire alternate reality, also, Sasuke used the sharingan’s “clarity of perception” (it’s the way wiki phrases it) to see where the kunai were coming from and determin that the real ones weren’t there. Also note through a weird fluke, naruto wiki has the same jutsu re-entered slighty modified here: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Haze_Clone_Technique

  51. @ mart, actually, if u look closly, those r 2 different techniques: mist servent, they r oil-like, splatter when hit, and regenerate themselves; haze clones just have the enemy phase thru them like ghosts. plus, the mist servents have black clothes and the haze clones have white clothes

  52. JPUA: I took the time to look back at that episode, you are right they are two different techniques, HOWEVER Sasuke only used the Sharingan to see through the Haze Clone (which is ninjutsu). Oddly enough it was Naruto who recognized the mist servant technique as genjutsu and countered it (in his own weird way). So my point above about it being ninjutsu is still true.

  53. @ mart, i really didn’t pay attention to your argument, i just wanted to point out they were different techniques.

  54. That’s fine JPUA, I’m just sharing what I found after investigating it so that there isn’t any confusion. I was mistaken about them being the same and admit it.

  55. I stubled across this tidbit completely by chance. Proof that Pain doesn’t stink at genjutsu http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/418/13/

  56. yes yes!!!!!!!!!!
    the strongest ninja in hanzo of the hidden rain
    pein beat him cause he was old at that time
    hanzo is the only one that could give the sage of the six path a run.Jiraiya could have beat pein((hanzo spared Jiraiya and the oder 2 sanin.nobody can beat the 3 sanin together .hanzo beat them plus they crew
    he did all that and was still looking like the fight just started

  57. pain itu punya mata itu dari sp

  58. q bien

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