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Naruto Chapter 462: Sharigan’s Got Nothin’ on the Raikage

naruto-retro1Post Author: Bob
Some announcements before I get started. The new Shannaro-2 blog has been launched exclusively to host fan fictions, so please visit, read and leave comments for the hard working writers. Group blog 4: the most useless jutsu has been extended since I’ve had only a few responses so far, take a moment and send in an opinion.

Naruto 462. Pretty interesting chapter, particularly with what Madara/Tobi says about Naruto’s heritage and the history behind the Rinnegan. This chapter is another example of the classic Kishi style of revealing vital information while at the same time a action-packed battle is going on. I wanna get to the chapter analysis so I’ll do what I used to do and do a super short summary first: Raikage dishes out major pwnage on Jugo. Sharingan can’t touch the brotha so Sasuke goes after the wuss hiding in the back. Raikage and Sasuke then turn on each other and pose for dramatic cliffhanger ending. Meanwhile, Madara gives Naruto a history lesson on why the Uchiha clan are always so pissed off.

narutp462-1Let’s start with the battle first. I was actually hoping for more Sasuke-and-team-get-major-ass-whooping-a-thon (sorry Sasuke lovers, but they had it coming) but I guess a one-sided beat ‘em up wouldn’t be too fun to follow. I think we all could have guessed that Jugo doesn’t stand a chance against the Raikage. No, I’m not saying this because I think he’s weak, it’s because he’s not the main character here; if he defeated the big fish, Sasuke won’t get any spotlight ;P Nevertheless, the Raikage is a powerhouse, his single punch tore through Jugo’s shielded arm and went right into his chest, most people would have died from shock already. Their little scuffle did reveal something about the Raikage’s abilities though: the guy is fast! I mean, Usain Bolt has nothing on Raikage-dono. Not only does the guy swell with lightning charka, his body can literally move at the speed of lightning (speed of light). The speed is comparable to Minato Namikaze’s Flying Lightning God technique, but in the latter case it was teleportation/space-time jutsu rather than just purely speed enhancing jutsu.

naruto462-2

Hey wussy where are you going? The fighting's in the other direction

Wuss boy (Shi) mentions something about the Raikage having synapses that fire as fast as a flash of light and being incredibly fast when he surrounded by his lighning aura – this is the reason why genjutsu from Sasuke’s sharingan are ineffective against him; he is too fast to track. Even when Jugo tried to get him with his multi-canon attack thingy at point-blank range, the Raikage was still able to move out of the way in time. Now if the synapses in his brain can fire just as fast as his other muscles, then the Raikage would probably be immune to genjustu since no one would be able to keep up. However, this could also mean that the Raikage is quite smart – but so far, I find this hard to believe.

naruto462-3a

Click to read Shi's Story, a mini-manga by Bob

Shi’s performance in this battle was just pathetic. Click on the pic above to see my take on his contribution to this battke. I call him wuss boy because he’s lurking further and further into the back and has provided no support whatsoever since his little genjutsu trick last chapter. In essence, Shi is pulling a part1-Sakura jutsu, which is made all the more pathetic in his case because “Shi is a he.” Lol, get it? Lame joke, but you get the point 😀 I’m just glad Sasuke sensed his wussiness and took him out of action.

naruto462-4Madara mentioned that the Uchiha and Sanju clans descended from the two brothers who the Rikudo Sage (Sage of Six Paths) passed on his powers to. Hey, does that mean Naruto and Sasuke are very distantly related? That means when Naruto says he thinks of Sasuke like a brother, there’s actually some truth to that. Pretty cool. Too bad the two original brothers turned on each other. But I guess it was inevitable. The older brother inherited the Sage’s eyes and believed strength will bring peace to the world (he was a jock), while the younger brother received the Sage’s life force and believed love was the key to peace (he was a hippy). When the Sage favored the younger brother’s philosophy, the jock got pissed and the brothers had a falling out. But it’s no wonder the Sage picked the younger brother, the older brother was just way too fugly; would you want a guy with a face like this to carry out your legacy. I wouldn’t. And c’mon Kishi you can draw better characters than that 😦  Lol, and the Uchiha clan must have known some good plastic surgeons if they could come from this to this in a couple of generations.

naruto462-5What do guys think? Do you buy Madara’s story about the Rinnegan and Naruto and Sasuke’s ties to the sage of six paths and their ancestors? I suppose Madara could be lying, but what would be the point of it? I don’t think Naruto is just going to accept that he and Sasuke are bitter enemies to the end because it was foretold in the great annuls of ninjutsu. No, we know that Naruto could care less about what happened in the past and what his bloodline obligates him to do. Sasuke may have fallen into that trap, but Naruto has already decided to not walk down the road of hate and isolation that so many in the shinobi world have become embroiled in. Naruto and Sasuke: Chosen by fate to hate one another? I don’t buy it and I don’t think Naruto will either. People choose their own destinies, their own actions, their own consequences. Blaming your choices in life on your ancestors and bloodline is just a cop out in my opinion.

naruto462-6

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97 Responses

  1. Cool post bob I love your mini-manga haha! Personally I think the story is true, but weak on Kishi’s part, I mean Naruto’s hippy philosophy that ol’ jiraiya had instilled in him was basically in his genes too, so its not a big deal anymore.
    Raikage is fast, u didn’t mention the way he turned his head and basically watched sasuke as he tried to hit him, epic!
    If anyone watched the underworld trilogy this story was taken Str8 from there, one brother became a lycan the other a vampire!
    Oh and given that the sage gave his eyes to the older brother wouldst that mean the older bro is the father of ALL doujutsu?

  2. i loved the chapter, and great analysis as always Bob. i kinda hope Mandara’s telling the truth. i’ll talk more after more ppl comment

  3. lol, just read the mini-manga, is exactly what happened. and on the ugly Uchiha founder, yeah, your right, he was ugly, maybe he used the Sharingan to brain-wash a hot chick into going out w/ him so his descendants would b better looking

  4. Okay this chapter was awesome and you did a great job Bob! I honestly believe that Madara is telling the truth about these stories because what does he gain by lying. The only thing I can think of is putting Naruto against Sasuke but I agree with you Bob, Naruto isn’t going to fall for this and Sasuke may have bought the story bu come on do anybody really think he would have gone back to Konoha so easy!

    This chapter gave us a lot of info, we know now how Senju and Uchiha became rivals but does this mean they were the first ninja clans and I wonder how the other clans came about if Rikudo was the founder of the ninja world, where does everyone else fit in!

    This chapter also shapes Naruto and Sasukes Relationship, even though I agree with Bob about choosing your own destiny but you have to admit it does seem predestined that they are rivals and enemies. Sasuke a child of Uchiha and naruto a child of Senju, and the future of the world comes down to their battle. Naruto is trying to spread peace but Sasuke is cursed to spread hatred. Kishi your story is super incredible, in my opinion it kinda resinates in the real world! The Spread of Hatred!

  5. I also wonder if this think with Naruto and Sasuke being desendants of the Sage of the Six path means that Naruto could possible inherit the Rinnegan! Man I thought they were special because of the Sharingan and the kyuubi and who their fathers were but they really are special!

    I have to talk about this battle though, In my opinion the Raikage is kicking their ass and he should pound the stuffing out of Sasuke. I know a lot of people may be sad that Juugo got owned so easy but I’m not because he should be able to own the Raikage and I’m not expecting Sasuke to do much better but we all know he is going to win or escape somehow. Juugo in my opinion is amazing, one of my favorites. I just can’t wait to see more.

    When it comes to Naruto, I have to say this, he is strong and everything but he need to get a liitle stronger but not only that, I think Kishi should stop making him whine, I mean he should be more calm and collected like Yamato and Kakashi, I mean they both have thier funny moments but when it comes dow to business they are seriously focu and I think Naruto should the same because to me he sounds a little like a chile to me!

  6. @ yellowflash, yeah, Juugo’s awsomeness is very hard to match after seeing him w/ Gundam-style bazookas

  7. I agree with bob about Shi being a wuss but aleast he has done something, I think the real wuss here is that bitch Karin! Say what you want about Sakura but atleast she kill that giant centipede when Pein attacked, at least she does something like healing people, all Karin is doing is watching playing cheerleader when she sould be searching for Danzo! Shi is sleeping now get to work Whoe! Sorry for the language it’s just I don’t like her, I want Sasuke and Sakura together and Naruto and Hinata together!

  8. @ YF, about Sasuke and Sakura together, as long as NaruHina and Shika-Temar either happen or r implied by the end of the manga, i”l b happy w/ the couplings. but personnally i like the idea about Sasuke dying, then Sakura and Ino r sulking together, somthing happens, then WHOO-HOO! YURI CENTRAL, BABY!!! lols, i’m a pervert, especially about lesbians, it’s 99% of the reason i’m pro-gay rights (the other 1%’s just cuz i feel sorry about the gay ppl who keep getting targeted and discriminated against by Republ-, i mean Conserv-, i mean radicals)

  9. Pwned!!!…anyways
    Kishimoto might have been a little tipsy when he drew the particular page with the very first Uchiha and Senju…either that or he’s getting arthritis.
    And of course, Naruto and Sasuke will be the revolution age of ninjas that dispel the rivalry and hatred between the two clans….or something along those lines. Kishimoto is a mainstream writer.
    Amusing blog, as always Bob.

  10. What an intriguing chapter!! Bob you also did a great job but that is nothing new, I really enjoyed the comparison you made between the Usain Bolt and the Raikage, Bolt would lose in a race and prolly get punched clear cross the track too if h got to close to the Raikage!

    This Chapter was great because it shows how the connection between Sasuke and Naruto existed before there was a Sasuke or Naruto. It also shows in a way how that Uchiha curse affected the peace seeking Itachi for his how life and how he did whatever necessary to keep that same curse from reaching Sasuke There is so much more info that can be pulled from this chapter it makes me all tingly with excitement.

    One last thing, This was my first blog but i have been reading these discussions for bout a year so im excited for the future. Im lookin forward to contributing now that the manga is getting pretty darn ridiculous haha!!

  11. I agree with you 100% JPUA! LOL!

  12. @ yellowflash2

  13. i think that the other ninja clans were made cuz the two brothers shared the ninjustu techniques with other clans of people that were already around but didnt know ninjustu

  14. i believe most of tobi’s story, but i’m not convinced yet that the sharingon is blood tied to the rinnegan really. it’s definitely plausible but i look at it this way. the younger brother is obviously naruto with the physical energy and idealology. but the older brother – had the rinnegan and techniques of the sage. believed in strength. Sound like a recent villain turned back to love? That’s Nagato. not Sasuke. and Naruto already turned Nagato back to the light. lol…maybe madara is turning sasuke’s eyes into a rinnegan set! collect all 4!

    i don’t think wuss boy Shii is down yet by the way. He collapsed right next to the wuss man Samurai hiding behind the pillar in the panel…and it’s not that hard to break someone from a genjutsu. He’ll prob play dead until Karin gives away her position. but i tend to over-analyze and over-estimate a lot of these characters so maybe we won’t have to deal with him anymore haha.

    i like your part on free-will bob. i think you nailed it. that’s why i think sasuke is going to get his ass handed to him because he needs a reality check that he’s not as strong as he thinks he is. that also ties into my theory that madara is cornering him into becoming a 40 hr per week Akatsuki.

    i commented before that i wasn’t convinced about tobi’s identity yet either. maybe the voice-actors will put some character into his “Madara” personality in the anime, but for me he’s still way too laid back and collected (and never fights offensively?!) for the apparent direct descendent of the curse of Hatred and Revenge. Speaking of which, this probably means that he’s in a direct bloodline with Sasuke, if he is indeed Madara. and that to me says it’s even more plausible for another coupe de tat to take over Sasuke’s body again, because obviously Sasuke is his trump card in whatever hand he has.

    also, the raikage didn’t seem to be even making eye contact with sasuke the entire time…he was still staring at juugo when he said ‘it won’t work on me’. implying that maybe he was trained to fight the sharingon without making direct eye contact (which was what chiyo suggested). however, as we learned from Itachi, there are different ways to cast a genjutsu, as he caught Naruto in one with just a finger. Maybe Sasuke will wise up and stop acting like Naruto used to by charging in all pissed off.

  15. It said the Sage went around teaching people ninjutsu, I think those people became the current clans, and yes some contributions probably came from the two main clans, I was kind of hoping the elder brother would have a doujutsu that wasn’t the sharingan (because how can the sharingan then be descendant from the byakugan?)

    here’s what I said on the first post:

    Things I noticed
    1. The jutsu that both Jugo and Sasuke used in this chapter are similar to bijju-jutsu (Jugo did have 14 “tails” though, and this time Sasuke’s special friend looked less like the kyubbi and more like the 8-tails.)

    2. I wonder if Sasuke could copy the Raikage’s jutsu.

    3. Sasuke’s pic. as he owns that one ninja on page 6 looks like the sage o six paths.

    4. The whole Senju Uchiha thing was the main theme of the second stage of the chunin exams (heaven and earth) and furthers the ideas of the antithesis blog I did a little while ago

  16. I dont think that the story is true at all. I thought that Madara has a younger brother with a sharingan from where he got his permanent MS. And Hashirama the first Hokage had also a little brother who was the second Hokage. The guy who gave the two brothers their powers was almost death, so it couldnt be true at all

  17. Ahem, time for my theory (which is most like a rant)! This chapter turned on a few bulbs in my head. First off, all of the Rinnegan’s techniques have been inspired by Buddhism. Here’s where it gets interesting; “Rinnegan” means “Samsara eye”, Samara is the cycle of Reincarnation and/or Rebirth. The fact that the Sage had two sons to whom he passed on his powers, makes me think that Nagato was his reincarnation.

    Tobi says the bloodlines “thinned”, which means that getting the Rinnegan back by mere breeding was impossible, as it was already lost to the bloodline. Then suddenly, the Rinnegan appears in a random boy who is neither a Senju nor an Uchiha? Nagato used a technique to revive all the dead Konohanians, and when he used Chibaku Tensei, he said it was not comparable to the moon the Sage of Six Paths created. So judging by this difference in power, is it a far cry to say that the Sage manipulated the cycle of rebirth with the “Eye of Reincarnation” to show up again? This explains a lot, as when one is reincarnated, one has no memories of one’s past life. But apparently, Nagato still held the Sage’s belief of peace (the Sage wouldn’t go through the trouble of reincarnating himself for no purpose), but the way he would achieve it is fundamentally different. This plays right into the plot, because of Nagato’s mission of Peace, Naruto (who apparently is a Senju) was saved from taking the path of Vengeance, the path of the Uchihas. Jiraiya also believed Nagato’s is the Sage of Six Paths’ reincarnation (too lazy to find the exact chapter right now)

    As far as I see it, this manga is all about Fate. I don’t believe in Destiny, but I think it exists in the Naruverse. Remember it is Naruto’s “destiny” to bring peace and it was Nagato’s “destiny” to show him the path to it.

    Ok, so the bloodline of the Eldest Son thinned and the Sharingan was born. Kakashi said the Sharingan descends from the Byakugan, this makes perfect sense now. The Rinnegan looks more similar to the Byakugan (both are white, the Rinnegan has circular patterns, while the Byakugan has one circular patter albeit a bit cracked) than it does to the Sharingan. This also makes perfect sense as the Uchiha clan apparently have a hard on for revenge. Revenge leads to anger and hatred, the things that are said to attract the Kyubi. Now could it be a coincidence that the Kyubi’s chakra color and the Sharingan’s colors are the same? I think not. This is probably where the Kyubi’s relationship with the Uchiha is. I think the Sharingan is just a Byakugan that was corrupted by the Kyubi’s chakra.

    This chapter also raises some LOGICAL questions. If the Rinnegan can be “thinned” (through reproduction and the sharing of genes), does this mean that the kekkei genkai clans inbreed to keep their abilities? If so, that explains why Sasuke never thinks things through lol.

    This was a good breakdown Bob, it was overflowing with cheap laughs, and in the end, aren’t those the best kind? lol. Too bad Shi’s a wuss, i actually thought he looked and acted cool *sigh*. Goes to show that whenever Sasugay’s in the mix, even the coolest characters gotta be dumbed down to make him look cooler.

  18. @ultimatehokage: huh??? What r u on about the 1st and madara for. The sage was before their time, they are just descendants of the sage’s kids.
    @mart1: you can’t go around teaching people eye techniques, so the older brother has to be the father of all eye bloodlines.
    One thing people are forgetting is that tobi said that those two brothers would eventually give rise to the senju and Uchiha. This implies that 1. They gave rise to the other clans 2. The Uchiha and senju happened to be the descended clans that embodied the rivalry. Basically, the two bros are the fathers of all ninjutsu as they received this power from their pops. Consequently in an ‘Adam&Eve’ type fashion, every ninja a link back to the two bros and therefore the sage

  19. @ “you can’t go around teaching people eye techniques” Isn’t that exactly what the sage o six paths did with the two brothers (teach bloodlines) also, it said that the sage o six paths taught the way of the ninja before the two brothers (and his death)

    @Kisu. looka at the eye’s (I had a similar thought) they are EMS sharingan in the elderbrother’s eye’s. Also, I think that the clans do inbreed a bit (Hyuga main branch crap) though I like the idea of the Sage planing his return… (that’s more of a biblical type thing than budhism though)

  20. *
    After cha 462 I am more uneasy about CHAP 386. Everything Itachi said back them about The Uchiha’s the ETERNAL MS, THE Akatsuki… may unfold Madara’s lies, or Itachi’s true plan..
    But above all, the MONTERS seen behind Itachi, may be the same now visible as a shadow behind Sasuke.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/05/

    Was Itachi saying that death was the only way out of destiny?
    Was Itachi speaking of the power he gave to Naruto (to kill, blind or melt Sasuke?
    Was Itachi transferring more than MS to Sasuke?

    *
    Why Kyubi said Sasuke will regret it so if he kills Naruto? Kyubi is bound to Madara and he suppose to know a lot about the Uchiha. If Naruto and Sasuke r really destined to fight like Hashirama and Madara and Rikkudo’s sons, why will he regret thekilling?
    Could it be that Yondaime was also forseeing about the Uchiha when he sealed Kyubi in Naruto?

    *
    I think Danzou’s way is just what Madara described of the Uchiha, so Kishi answer to eradicate the hatred may be the blindness, or the extraction of the sharingan. After all Madara’s bro was supposed to be a nice guy, and he rendered his eyes.

    *
    Hei Yeah I said it Naruto is a Senju

    BOB ! SUPPREME POST
    Well I agree, and hope Kishi does it in the end, and both Naruto and Sasuke don’t fall for the destiny issue (we truly chose)
    But I guess Madara believe what he say

  21. no way naruto believes he’s destined to hate and fight sasuke he showed that when he fought neji and proved him wrong about destiny.

  22. btw raikage is badass but i want to see his arsenal he must have some crazy jutsus hes holden back

  23. @ Kisu
    The Byakugan can be just a mutation of the sharing, or the resulted resent mix of Uchiha+Senju, after all Kakashi and all knew nothing about the Uchiha,

  24. I’m wondering two more things:

    1. like S_U, I’m wondering how Itachi and Izune fit into Madara’s Hatered theory,

    2. How the Bijju fit in (I’m also wondering if the even numbered Bijju are good and the odd numbered bijju are evil: 1-tails: uncontroled/evil, 2-tails:controled/good?, 3-tails: uncontroled:evil? 8-tails: controled/good, 9-tails: Uncontroled/evil)

    Philip, didn’t he kind of negate that by being the child of prophecy, he believes in destiny when it aids him, but doesn’t when it’s against him,

  25. mart 1
    they havent told him about that yet have they? i thought only the toads and tsunade kno about that.

  26. I suppose that if Madara is telling the truth, then it just makes Naruto even MORE worthy of being Hokage. It’d mean that not only is he a member of the 1st and 2nd’s clan, but also a descendant of the Sage of Six Paths. But wait, wouldn’t that mean in a really weird sense that he’s related to Nagato AND Sasuke? And doesn’t it also mean he can poccess the Rinnegan too? So many questions, I’m giving myself a headache.

  27. I don’t really think that Naruto nor Sasuke will possess the Rinnegan nor do i think they should because i think that their strengths are unique in their own right. They wouldnt need the rinnegan at all

    Im starting to believe that Sasuke’s sharingan has the ability to use the chakras of the bijuus that he faced in combat through genjutsu. When they first showed the change in his chakra it resembled the kyuubi a lot, now we see a chakra that resembles the hachibi for sure.

    Now in terms of this Fate that Madara is talkin bout i doubt that Naruto is not gonna be too phased by it. Madara is prolly obsessed wit this Fate concept much like Neji used to be obsessed with his “destiny” but in the end its really gonna come down to whether or not Sasuke truly believes Madara’s bull or not because i really think that neither Sasuke nor Naruto will be able to kill Madara on their own

  28. Geez where r people getting that Naruto is a senju? He is an uzumaki and a namikaze! R u people proposing that tsunade was his grand aunt? Come on! Madara was just showing that sasuke and Naruto are representative of the same ideological dichotomy that existed between the two brothers and was inherited by senju and Uchiha. Naruto is senju on by virtue of the konoha will of fire ideology.
    @mart1 he didn’t teach his kid the eye technique, he used some jutsu to divide up his power and pass it to his kids, you can’t be taught doujutsu

  29. hell yeah, naruto and sasuke bound to fight to the end, that’s nice. face off it is. go kill each other!

  30. Brilliant post bob, I feel sorry for Jugo, he doesn’t have anyone to help heal him now, I think you missed that Karin found Danzo after how many chapters and that dark thing also showed itself again, What I think of the Raikage, he is super strong and super fast, now but how much chakra do you think that jutsu uses, I don’t think he will be able to keep it up forever.

    The talk between Naruto and Tobi, I guess it can be true, but I think he wants to let Naruto know Sasuke is too far gone to be brought back, he also told him about Itachi and stuff so that is good since now they understand what Sasuke is doing it for, not just an Akatsuki puppet 🙂

    The Uchiha vs Senju, its amazing how the Uchiha are made to look like the bad guys where all but 2 have been killed by the acts of the Senju and their allies, all for the “greater good” I agree, but why does it seem like the “greater good” is only the “greater good” of the Senju….

  31. Hi Bob very good analogy there dude! It is true that you cannot blame ur bloodline or ancestors, u have your own path to follow! there maybe a path or markers guiding you but at the end of the day you have the choice whether you can use them or not! I was actually watch the Naruto Vs Neji which went in to great detail about what you just said about blood lines and ancestors! It would be great think that Naruto has the will to conjure up the Firsts wood style jutsu but i dont see that happening to be honest, I think that Naruto will make his own unique form of Ninjutsu one day! As he will no doubt find out how to do the Teleportation jutsu one day! I think Sasuke really doesnt have a chance against Raikage unless he gets lucky, His sharingan wont work and his Electric attacks wont work, he doesnt have the Cure seal anymore so what other Trump cards does he have to gain an advantage? he does have the amazing eye techniques yes but he was holding his eye last time he used the on wuss boy!

    Did anyone notice that Sasuke had a different Mangekyo Sharingan, it look like Madara’s Eternal one!! very bizzare! its like he can use other peoples Mangekyo Sharingans, i thought they where all individual ones? because Sasuke inherited Itachi’s throw star shape in his eye, it was quickly changed into his own 6 point star where it more black then red which is unique to all the other Sharingans! Maybe the Sharingan changes depending on the eye technique!!

  32. PEin0avenue To reply too your comment about the Uchiha, it is true that they should not be wiped out, but also that they are a powerful Clan, a clan that really should have there own Village, and they wanted to obviously take hold of the village and rule it, if what Madara said was true then they would rule with an iron fist and it would be a policed very strongly without much love as far as the descendants go! i dont think that all Uchiha are like this but the Higher ranking ones would be, Madara holds a grudge because he could not get his way so that is not the same all the rest, but the Konoha village must of sore an early uprising that was going to come so they needed to stop it right away! Maybe if they put cursed seals on them like the Hyuga head family clan did maybe they could of controlled them but i doubt they would of stood for that.

  33. can anyone brief me more clearly on how
    sasuke has madara’s EMS.
    this is the third pattern of MS he seems to possess.
    does he have this special power of using
    different MS on his will.
    if that’s the case he inherited the greatest power of all
    the power of different MS.
    its just a doubt wht u people think.

  34. any and all views r welcome

  35. there’s a point i would like to make on sasuke possession of madara’s EMS.
    this could be a sign of madara control over sasuke.
    he might be in some kind of mind control technique
    it could be possible!.

  36. Yes Manishuchiha i picked up on that too, but he has not swapped his eyes with anyone so he will go blind! unless he does swap his eyes eventually! if he doesn’t use his MS he will have a major disadvantage to any strong enemies! So the Rinnengan was made first then the Byukagen then the Sharingan! i wonder if an eye can evolve that would be pretty cool! 😛

  37. That a very good point! 🙂 You could be right! time will tell!

  38. @manishuchiha: what r u on about, sasuke hasn’t activated his MS yet, he just has normal 3tear sharingan eyes, please post a link to the page u r referring to, bcoz I haven’t seen it yet

  39. Everything we know about the EMS has been from discussion. Correct me if I’m wrong, but all madara said was 1. Overuse of the MS makes you go blind 2. replacing your eyes gives u the EMS. What he has not said is that an EMS means ur eyes are eternally in MS mode, that has just been our suspicion. Consider for a moment the fact that we have never seen tobi’s MS. Whenever we see his eye it is just in sharingan mode. I think that EMS means simply that u r always in sharingan mode i.e. You can’t go to normal grey eye mode, hence the fact that tobi’s sharingan is always active.
    As an aside, it is looking less likely that tobi is Madara’s body. I’m thinking that as yamato recounted, his jutsu has split him from his body like a ghost. I think somewhere deep in an akatsuki hideout is the good old madara, long hair and all enjoying life while his tobi persona operates!

  40. Thankyou for the funnies Bob! had me lolling 😛

    Awesome chapter, finally Naruto is learning that he’s gonna have to kill Sasuke…oh no.

  41. @ MattMaru – If the Uchiha ruled with an Iron Fist, would it not be what the Leaf are asking for now, I mean Danzo is a dictator person…..

    @ madzikage – I don’t think Tobi’s Sharingan is always Active, I mean Sempai didn’t see it plus others that where close never saw it active

  42. my predictions: Naruto will have to capture Sasuke and mayybe use some sorta sealing jutsu to prevent him from hurting anybody, Sakura will falll for Sasuke (again), Mandara will go into hiding 4 an arc or so while Naruto’s looking 4 KB, Kabuto returns, and gets killed, Mandara returns and Naruto can’t beat him alone so he un-seals Sasuke and they double team him. that’s the order that i think might happen, but it might happen differently. i really doubt Naruto will kill Sasuke cuz of the whole “u chose your own fate” thingy seems to b prevelant in the series: Naruto defied his “fate”* by going from zero to hero (yes, i did intentionally make it rhyme); Sakura defied her “fate” by going from whimpy nerd to psychotic brute; Neji defied his “fate” by attempting to kill the person he’s “fated” to protect just cuz she stood up to him (srsly, when the hell is she gonna beat the shit outta him 4 that? shouldn’t b to hard since he spends a good half an hour of his post-Chunin Exam half-hour battles standing there going “hmm”); Lee did the same thing as Naruto did; Gaara stopped being all psycho, etc, etc
    *note, “fate” as in Neji’s part 1 definition, which is almost the same as Mandara’s definition, only Neji’s makes more sense*

  43. Well yes Danzo would like that but he would not have Control though would he! He a person that wants to pull the strings, Tsunade wants the ideals of the 1st 2nd and 3rd and also the 4th Hokages instilled into the Village.

    Also about the Eye of the Moon plan, his right eye is the only one seen, which in Japanese folk law the right eye of Izanagi created Tsukuyomi, so Maybe his eye has that ability which he plans to either use or is using againast Sasuke right now!!

  44. BTW, for those that are confused, the Dark thing Sasuke used on wuss boy was actually a Genjutsu.
    @S_U, in mangas and stories in general, whenever information is given, its usually true unless proven wrong later. So going by what Kishi gave us already, I’m saying the Byakugan evolved from the Rinnegan and the Sharingan came from a tainted Byakugan (tainted by the Kyubi that is). If anyone reading this is unclear about what I’m saying, scroll up and you’ll see my long explanation.

  45. http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page005.html That’s just the average level 3 Sharingan people. It’s neither MS nor is it EMS. and the monster thing is ONLY a genjutsu. Also I agree with Pein0avenue, to an extent. It’s what I’ve been preaching ever since Pain’s invasion of Konoha. Konoha is no better than any other Village, they look out for themselves, and has everyone thinking they’re the good guys. Right now the only Villages I trust are Kumogakure and Kirigakure.

  46. @kisu: finally someone hears what I’m saying, about the whole sharing thing-sasuke has madara’s sharingan the lunacy!!! Now I just need someone to agree with my earlier post that Naruto is not a damn senju!

  47. madzikage: “@mart1 he didn’t teach his kid the eye technique, he used some jutsu to divide up his power and pass it to his kids, you can’t be taught doujutsu” here is what the MANGA says “The Rikudo Sage preached the way of the ninja and tried to bring peace” (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/462/12/) where does it say he “used some jutsu”? It says they were born with traits the sage had, but it doesn’t say 1. They are his sons (just that they are brothers) 2. The sage created these traits or 3. These were the only traits that causes that type of effect. And even if he did, why can’t he use that jutsu on others? The brothers were the best of the sage’s students but not the only.

    @philip: he did know, Fusaku told him somewhere in there, I don’t know the page # though.

    @Kisu.: it’s not a genjutsu, wuss boy just said “is this genjutsu?” http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/462/06/

  48. No Naruto is not a Senju, he may be a descendant though is it is not clear, Madara is only stating the long line of battles that has been happening, but naruto does resember the younger sages son in terms of his energy, he has a big stamina pool, i know he also has allot of energy from Kyubi as well but he has a naturally large amount of Chakra to begin with!

  49. @ madzi, i personnally believe u unless w/in the next chapter we find out that Minato changed his last name, but since it’s unlikly, i personnally feel what u said about Naruto being Senju is just cuz of his ideals, not bloodline (tho, it would give some truth to the nickname he gave Tsunade, lol, just joking)

  50. Raikage is going to destroy saskue …. the raikage has taken no damage…

  51. lol, Bob. Shi wasn’t a wuss he was the weakest member so his job was to support genjutsu attack but it didn’t work on Sasuke.
    Thay already said they needed to take Shi out first cus he can track Karin from doing her job so it was nice seeing what he can do before Sasuke took him out. Now that Juugo is out that make 2 on 2. I’m loving this 3 vs 3 fight it’s so exciting. I like anything involving team work.
    I also think Madara might be telling Naruto the truth just only to see what path he’ll take. Maybe he think Naruto holds some answer to his question or something?

  52. Call me naive but i really believe that Naruto can in fact be a senju. I think that Naruto can actually be the true grandchild of Tsunade which would mean that the Yondaime would be the son of Tsunade. Think back to when Jiraiya left the village to seek out Tsunade so she could be the Hokage. It was his idea to take Naruto with him(Maybe to persuade Tsunade to come back to Konoha by bringing her own grandchild along). Remember her expression when she saw that Naruto could in fact do the Rasengan that his father created. In my mind if Naruto is actually a Senju it would be from his father side of the family, and the Uzumaki side of the family would be where Naruto gets his Kekkei Genkai from but im just throwing that out there. Hopefully im right!!!!

  53. having your nerve and brain synapses fire that fast for an extended period of time will have severe consequences on the body…so if this prolongs the Raikage will barely be able to move. every good technique has it’s flaws.

  54. Naruto is a Senju, and so are many other in Konoha who belongs to differents clans. It is not about a last name, is about linage.
    So the Hyuga can be decendants of the Uchiha, or Senju as well. I hope Kishi made than clear one day.
    One year ago Shino and I published a post about ANBU,
    We said back then
    Note 1: Kishi confirmed that 3 of the 5 HOKAGE were Senju (Shodai, Nindaime and Godaime). But, if the Senju kept the control, then Sarutobi (Sandaime) and Minato (Yondaime) were also member of this clan. Indeed they were more powerful than common shinobies. Consequently their descendants: Naruto, Konohamaru and Asuma, are Senju. Finally, Jiraya must have been a Senju, because he was offered the post of Hokage, and managed the senjutsu.

  55. @ Kisu
    Kishimoto has changed some things that were supposed to be facts, like all about the Uchiha masacre, and the MS. Example, the transplant was supposed to work only among Uchiha, But it succeeds in Kakashi and Danzou. It was Kakashi who said that more along in the lines of legend ppl believe that Sharingan descend from Byakugan. I believe this will be proven wrong if Madara is telling the true. In fac Kakashi knew nothing about the Uchiha, neither about the MS back then

  56. i kinda like what steelsagex and SU said, i’m not convinced, but i do like the thought. i think i’ll just remain nuetral in this debate tho. what SU said, it was better backed up, tho what i like about SSX’s theory is that Naruto calling Tsuande “grandma” could’ve been foreshadowing. but again, i’m not convinced, i just like the idea of it

  57. @ Madzikage

    Madara’s EMS pathens has been seen in the manga. It looks like the superposition of his and his brother’s MS.

    In chap 399 we have seen Madara with regular black eyes, after achieving S or EMS pathen. If Toby has the Sharingan always active, coan mean he is hust a puppet, or simply Kishi didnt bother to draw that,

  58. @ Jet- may be they are relatives, but not grandma and grandson.

  59. @ SU, i kno that, i just think it would b kinda funny. like i said, i don’t really think u or Steel r right, i just think it would b cool if u were

  60. @UG very good point, it should really mess him up when he comes out of that technique considering that it basically forces his body to react faster than normal. But I guess its all a stamina battle in the end and sasuke was already holding his eye after a simple sharingan genjutsu, what more if he goes MS. But he’s gonna have to do it next chapter to keep up with the raikage

  61. @Mart, haven’t u seen any of Sasugay’s battles? Whenever his Sharingan comes up like that, its Genjutsu. Remember that it doesnt have to be Mangekyou to use Genjutsu, only Mangekyou to use Tsukuyomi. If you dont believe me, this site clearly says he was caught in genjutsu, up to you if you want to believe http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Shi to save you the trouble of reading through, I’ll just show you the lines “When Jugo releases a huge blast, Shi worries over the Raikages well-being before being trapped in a genjutsu by Sasuke and passing out.”
    @Mart about Sage of Six Paths, the onemanga translation is the SleepyFans translation, i.e. a translation that us rushed to come out on Thursdays or Fridays, a more accurate translation is this http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page012.html And there is no way you can “teach” someone a doujutsu (you cant teach someone how to change their blood to get a kekkei genkai lol). It said they were born with these, and him having the Rinnegan (which controls life and death and souls), it is highly likely that HE split his powers into them, giving the older a Rinnegan and the younger his “body” (look who gets the short end of that stick lol).

  62. @Tsunade being Naruto’s grandma, LOL. I could leave it at that, but I think you’ll all want reasons. Ok, Tsunade’s boyfriend was Dan, who was about as old as Jiraiya back in the Second Ninja War. According to the anime, Tsunade’s little brother died in that war and later Dan, but through all this, Tsunade never once became pregnant. She was extremely active in the war, and when they met up with Yahiko and friends, she wasn’t pregnant then either. Then she left Konoha with Shizune, so Minato cant be her son. And even by some crazy chance if she spent 9 months off-screen to have Minato, I think she would show a bit more emotion when she and Jiraiya were talking about him in Part 1.

    @the whole Senju thing, only Tobirama, Hashirama and Tsunade (even though he r last name hasn’t been revealed yet) are Senjus that claimed the title of Hokage. Hiruzen and Minato count as a Senju reign because they held the same view of the First. They were fully indoctrinated into the dogma of the “Will of Fire” (and based on my Post about the Will of Fire, you all know what I think about it), and so are many Konohanians (if not all), including Naruto. So that’s why Tobi said he was a Senju, and not because he is a descendant of the First.

  63. By the way, I think the first hokage is overrated. Sarutobi was considered the most powerful Hokage of them all when he was young. And when he became a bag of dust he was still able to kick Tobirama’s and Hashirama’s assess (Second and First Hokage). We all know that Nagato would have owned the Third, even if he was still young. So maybe ninja 80 years ago considered Hashirama to be strong, but compared to the ninja in the manga today, he’s chopped liver (new generation surpassing the old, a very prevalent theme in Naruto). This also means Madara couldn’t have been too tough either. The only reason they’re remembered is because they could control Biju, in my opinion.

  64. @kisu I agree with ur statements. A interesting battle imo would be between Minato and Nagato. We all know of Nagato and his abilities, however I think Minato would be a good challenge for nagato. Minato was a great hokage and we need to remember that he died young. had he not sacrificed himself to face the nine tails, I think he could have matured even more. He was classified as a genius, on itachis level. remember he created his own jutsu, the rasengan. People will say naruto perfected it and he is just as smart, but its alot easier to perfect a jutsu that was already made than to make one from scratch. Minato vs. Nagato would be an awesome fight imo.

  65. Kisu. if you can control a bijju that instantly makes you strong… Even Shukaku, the weakest Bijju, was a threat to all of kohana (Oro.’s whole master plan was to release him and a bunch of giant snakes…) Hirashima didn’t have any bijju against Sarutobi, but if he had, is there anyway he could have really lost? he had MULTIPLE bijju in his glory days… and Sarutobi was OLD, REALLY OLD, he supposedly knew every jutsu in Kohana, I don’t think he would have been a push over, I will grant you though, that Pein is also a beast…

    Further more, this chapter embodies the theme, that the will of fire is good, Madara, (and the elder brother) both ATTACKED first, Pein attacked first, were Naruto, Hirashima, and the Younger brother supposed to let them win/lie down and die?

  66. Im glad im not the only one that noticed the shadow behind Sasuke appears to be the sage of the six paths (albeit with Sharingan not Rinnegan :S)

  67. I think Kurenai’s Kid is going to be the reincarnation of Pein and have the Rinnengan. that would be really cool.

  68. @ mart *shocked* u have a heart!? wow, totally surprised me w/ how robotic and un-emotional u usually seem when i read your comments, i was afraid u were almst like G1 Shockwave or Soundwave (Transformers villans who lack nearly all emotion; note, later incarnations of them in other serieses act a lil’ differently) lol, just messing w/ u, please don’t delete this comment

  69. @ dessam, hmm, that would b kinda cool since Kishi’s planning on making the kid a girl, and he really needs to add more female characters who aren’t, well, u kno, losers: Sakura and Ino, cry babies; Karin, need i say?; Konan = paper? wtf?; Hinata, she’s been improving the fastest, but still needs alot of work; Tenten had virtually no technique in the manga, just the anime; Kurenai, got pregnant after only 1 fight; Tsunade, Temari, and Chiyo r really the onyl girls who didn’t need fillers to have cool jutsu, and Tsunade had only 1 battle, Chiyo’s dead and Temari stood in the sidelines during her brother’s capture, Kishi REALLY needs to work on having the sexes equal, and a girl w/ the Rinnegan would b perfect 4 that

  70. @Mart, it was never stated that the Shukaku is the weakest Biju, he’s just the One-tailed biju. In my opinion, I think the Two-Tailed Monster Cat was the weakest. It wasn’t that big and it got beat by Hidan and Kakuzu without them even getting a scratch (except Hidan because of his ritual).

    About the Will of Fire, Madara attacked because he feared the Uchihas would be abused by the Senju if Hashirama was to become Hokage (and he was right, in fact, they were all massacred). Pein didn’t attack first, Konoha has been attacking Pain ever since he was a child (no need to go any further).

    I truly don’t want to see another Rinnegan for the remainder of the series, another Rinnegan would just cheapen it. Besides, the Rinnegan (for Yu-Gi-Oh fans) would be like having the 3 Egyptian Gods and the Seal of Orechalcos at the same time (these cards are all banned for a reason). The power to control life and death is too much.

  71. BTW, i always defend the Shukaku cause it was the awesomest Biju that ever showed up in the manga/anime. And his English voice was beyond LOL. Plus, Gamakichi’s line when Shukaku showed up was awesome “that is one funky demon” lol.

    Anyway, I dont consider Hashirama and Madara to be strong. they were just using other creatures’ strength. And its not like Biju are invincible (Akatsuki is proof of that). Like I said, ninja 80 years ago were pretty weak, i doubt any of them could even scratch a Biju.

    @Token, I don’t think that would be too interesting. Nagato would kill Yondaime probably pretty quickly. Remember that Naruto had several advantages over Pain. 1. Pain was already exhausted from destroying the Village. 2. God Realm couldn’t use his abilities for a couple of minutes. 3. Naruto knew what every Pain could do because of Katsuyu. 4. Naruto got help from the Kyubi. And 5. (the most important 1) NAGATO WANTED TO CAPTURE NARUTO ALIVE (which automatically means he was holding back, unlike when he fought Jiraiya). He wouldn’t want Yondaime alive, and Yondaime wouldn’t have all the advantages Naruto had, he’d probably die fairly quickly.

  72. Is it just me or did the elder brother look like he had Kaguya clan face markings and a bit of their personality?? I know there is no way possible since the Kaguya have pretty much been written from the story (apart from bits and pieces when Juugo talks about Kimimaro). Ah well.

    Good chapter though. I feel a little disapointed I couldn’t see more Juugo CS2

  73. @kisu u sayNagato would kill Minato quickly. HOwever you have never seen the full extent of MInato powers. If there was a ninja so powerful that enemies were ordered to flee ON SIGHT of that ninja, I would have to say that there is probably good reason. Minato is considered by all of Konoha to be one of the best that has ever come out of its ranks, and to say that Nagato would kill Minato fast seems a little rash. Im not saying Minato would win, however you also have to remember that like I said he died young. Give Minato extra years to train. remember at the end of the first manga, Naruto went off to train for 3 years. Add on top of that the training with the sage frogs, and kakashi and Naruto was able to take down Nagato. Minato I am sure could improve as well over that time span. it took him 3 years to make the rasengan, and he was going to start to add his own elements to it so he would have been even more powerful. And to state that God realm couldnt use his abilities for a couple min is a poor excuse. Powerful justus have drawbacks and he had to deal with them. Naruto couldnt have been in perfect, tip-top shape either considering he was in the middle of his toughest training yet so I would say both were not at 100% condition. And as for jirayia, even Nagato admitted that if Jirayia had known his secret sooner, Nagato would have been done for. And Nagato must have had a good supply of chakra because even after his battle, he had enuf chakra to rez ALL of the people he had killed. That seems like evidence that Pain was not as ‘exhausted’ as u first claimed. To ur 4th point that naruto had help from the kyubbi so what…. Pein had the rinnengan. Naruto used what he had at his disposal and he defeated pain. So does it seem unfair that Pein beat Jirayia because he had the rinnengan and Jirayia did not? not at all cause Pein used his talents and abilities.

  74. @Token, The Kyubi is a sentient being. So it giving Naruto its powers in the battle would be considered two on one. None of Nagato’s bodies are sentient, and the Rinnegan isn’t sentient, they were all a part of Nagato. And he was exhausted, didn’t u see all of Konan’s warnings to him? He was bleeding from the mouth and nose, he was totally exhausted. The only reason he was able to use that jutsu at the end was because he gave up his life as well as the small amount of chakra he had. AND, Minato isn’t as young as you might think. Jiraiya started to train Minato soon after he left Yahiko, Konan and Nagato. He and Nagato are roughly the same age. And if you think back to the Kakashi Gaiden, based on appearance, Minato would be in his early twenties, which means by the time the Kyubi attacked he would have been in his late 20s to early 30s (its not like he’s Itachi, who was only 20-21 years old when he died, or Deidara that was only 19 when he died). AND remember that Senjutsu chakra heals the body while its in use, so by the time Naruto got there, he was completely healed http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/01/ there’s not even a scratch on him in that picture. Naruto WOULD NOT HAVE lasted so long if God Realm Pain could have used his abilities. We see that as soon as God Realm’s powers returned, he was able to fully subdue Naruto, imagine what would have happened if he was fighting while ALL THE OTHER Pains were fighting. In my opinion, you cant use that battle to judge Pain’s power. Instead, use the fact that Pain killed Hanzo (a ninja strong enough to hold off the Sanin without too much effort).Minato was strong, but I doubt he could defeat Jiraiya, Tsunade and Orochimaru at the same time, Pain killing Hanzo is the same as him annihilating the Sanin.

  75. Kisu. My point is that they look like bijju, which is worth noticing, I also think that naruwiki is going off that same comment you are going off of (because there’s nothing els too go off of) so it doesn’t prove anything.

    I think that 1. Naruto’s use of the kyubbi is no different than Pein using the renningan and 2. Pein would lose to minato or hirashima, and definately madara (if madara is tobi…)

    Pein would lose to Minato because FTG could own all of Pein’s jutsu. I think Hirashima would win because of bijju CONTROL (he unlike Naruto HAD to maintain control through effort, as shown by how unskilled Yammato was at it) and possibley something like naruto where he braces himself with wood.

  76. @Mart, Kishi said it himself that Sandaime was the 2nd most powerful of the dead shinobi (with Yondaime being first). There is absolutely no way Shodaime could win a fight aganst Pain. He lost to Sandaime’s Reaper Death Seal (which is child’s play compared to Nagato’s Soul stealing jutsus), and nagato has many ways to take souls. Hashirama’s biju control doesn’t come into this because the biju are all in Jinchuriki, but if we’re going to talk about that, you cant forget Gedo Mazo. That Rinnegan summon is not like an Animal summon, that thing can take the souls of the biju. Pain cannot be compared to ANY ninja that has passed. And the Flying Thunder God only works when the kunai are thrown, my solution to that is to Shinra Tensei them away, or Bansho Tenin a boulder, so when Yondaime teleports there he gets hit by a huge rock, lol.

    Kyubi gives Naruto chakra, speed, strength, stamina, and overwhelming force. You cant say Naruto using the Kyubi is like Pain using the Rinnegan, Naruto couldn’t even control the darned thing, that was Kyubi using Naruto. Pain was double teamed (six on one if you count the fact that NARUTO DIDN’t summon the frogs, Shima did, so they weren’t HIS weapon, they were Shima’s, and I know many people are gonna want to debate that, but its a fact you cant get around, Naruto didnt waste that huge amount of chakra to summon 5 toads) by Naruto and the Kyubi. And another slap in the face was when Naruto used the Kyubi’s distraction to turn into Sage Mode again. I’d also like to add, Pain wasn’t fazed by the Kyubi, a bit surprised, but not fazed. In front of the might of Eight Tail Kyubi, he simply had the same blank look on his face and said “Maybe I’ll have to make a bigger one”. Pain is on a whole other level than all the Shinobi so far. Believe it.

  77. m more with Token kisu., Naruto’s use of the kyubbi is more like a jutsu than a partnership (not saying they aren’t seperate entities, simply that naruto used what he had, and accepted the draw backs just as Nagato accepted his shortened lifespan.)

    @Minato: The Kunai work because they had the special seal on them, but he could teleport anywhere with the seal on it, so if kunai were moved (failed) he could switch to tag seals (like the explosive tags) or retreat to a safe distance with a summoning scroll (if all else failed). Rock throwing would also fail because there are too many tags to cover at once, if a boulder is headed towards a particular tag he obviously won’t go there.

    @Hirashima: 1. the statue takes multiple days and superninja to seal a bijju, he MIGHT be able to preform the ritual with six bodies on ONE bijju but the first supposedly controled multiple bijju and it takes lots of preperation to seal a bijju without the statue breaking 2. You have to give Hirashima his full strength if you want a good comparison of the two fighting, it would be like taking away Pein’s six paths, because they weren’t around when Hirashima was alive, I have no problem with allowing Pein his pre-village chakra either, but it should be noted that most of his jutsu use life-span instead of chakra, so I think the best estimate of his strength comes from averaging his two battles. 3. Hirashima didn’t want to fight sarutobi, he wanted to die. He basically stood there for Sarutobi to seal him. I think against Pein, he would do a lot better (and so would Pein because of the no capture thing, but again, against Jariya he seemed a lot weaker, and that time he was going for the kill (though he was in his home town, that could have something to do with it, but not much as he trashed a couple buildings and the sewer system…)

  78. @Mart, R u forgetting Gedo Mazo’s soul stealing snake thing-a-mabob? Anyway, I’m ending this discussion here until the 4th Databook is released, then my point will be proven.

  79. @Mart, i almost forgot, Hashirama and Tobirama gave it their all. They were robbed of their free-will by Orochimaru’s jutsu, they were a little more than his puppets http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Impure_World_Resurrection And naruto using the Kyubi is not like a ninjutsu, 1.He doesn’t use ANY chakra to use it, 2.HE has NO control of himself whenever the Kyubi takes over, and 3.the kyubi is a SENTIENT BEING who DECIDES to give Naruto chakra. And Naruto using the Kyubi would be like Nagato calling every member of Akatsuki to help him in the battle, you cant say the Rinnegan is like the fox. 1.Nagato uses up chakra to use it, 2.it is a part of him and has on sentience. AND Naruto didn’t accept the consequences of using the Kyubi, he was FORCED to take them (because he has 0 control over the transformation), anyway you wanna look at it, Nagato outclasses every ninja so far. AND Nagato has his own way of controlling the Biju. Gedo Mazo is his summon, and it absorbed the power of the Biju, AND he has implied that he can control the Biju several times. Namely whenever he talks about using them as batteries for his super weapon. Bah, I end this discussion.

  80. Kisu. I see it this way, the bijju are the jinkuri’s weapon, if they had FREE WILL they would be their own, BUT they DON’T they are forced to co-opperate with their host or die, they also lack bodies (when sealed) so while they are sentiment, so are things like Samehada, AND naruto has to expend chakra to sipress him. I’m not saying the fox doesn’t help in battle, simply that it is a weapon. Like Akamaru or shino’s bugs.

    Also, your comment brings up an interesting point, how do you know Pein, who has access to several bijju, didn’t use them in his fight to bolster his own chakra? Under your theories about how the bodies work, it’s more than possible, and if you refute those theories then that means the bodies count as people/beings.

  81. @ kisu and mart, in my opinion, it doesn’t matter about strength but about intelect, the ability to analyze a situation and tell what is neccesary to do. strength is only helpful if it is rediculously overwhelming (imagine the Tsunade vs Ino, then strength is the main factor, but it’s only in cases like that) and if somebody has an advantage such as Naruto have the Kyuubi and 5 frogs (Gamakichi doesn’t count) then bring some goddamn frigging back-up. it’s NINJAS, as in: sneaking up behind some1 much less skilled than u in fighting so u could slit their throught b4 they notice. fairness ain’t an issue in these battles

  82. by the way…obito’s way of the ninja disproves tobi’s point that all uchiha are filled with hatred.

    and i know it’s a bit late as it happened a couple chapters ago, but i just remembered something interesting about the sharingon. Uchiha Shisui’s sharingon that danzo has contains a different type of technique–than the techniques we knew that itachi or any other uchiha possessed–brings up an interesting idea that maybe Sasuke has slightly different MS techniques. Even Kakashi’s had a different MS technique. i’ll wager that danzo even has a MS with his own technique as well which will be interesting to watch if Sasuke manages to get to him.

  83. Not all of the Uchiha’s had the legacy of hate. Of course there are going to be some black sheep in the family.

    I mean hell, Itachi didnt have their legacy of hate either, he didnt hate Konoha. Its more the Uchiha have been born with the ultimate destiny to be the rivals of the Senju.

  84. i just got back from and i havnt read any comments so, if i repeat anything i apologize in advanced, great chapter, bob keep up the good work, jugo has some nice abilities, tobi will probably kill yamato since hes a mokuton user, naruto will feel like he needs to save sauske, where are the other kages and bodyguards shouldnt they join in, zetsu isnt dead, sugietsu might get or create a new sword, karin is weak, raikage is insane, sauske is considered a true villian now, wheres zetsu and kisame??? i cant believe kakashi hasnt mention anything about tobi resembling obito or thought about it since he has one eye kind of exposed with the sharingan, someone will inherit the rinnegan, sauske is going to summon something very evil mentally or phisically, next chapter will be better

  85. i wanted to add that obito said if thats the way of the ninja then he’ll crush the so called ninja so he was filled with hatred

  86. Heres what i think. madaras ultimate plan is to gain the rinnegan for himself. thats why he wants to begin the moons eye plan.(as in the sage of the 6 paths created the moon) to do this he’ll need his own EMS plus sasuke’s MS when he gets a bit stronger. Madara is also clearly one of the strongest shinobi in the series because he was the true leader of akatsuki. so if pain followed him that means that he would beat pain. and since the first hokage beat Madara that means he’s the strongest shinobi.

  87. so madara is saying that naruto is a senju decendant? in saying does that mean he has the rikudo sages body, life force, and physical energy, i could believe this due to his amount of chakra and the way his body surpresses with kyuubi. the younger bro kind of looks like hes in sage mode. it must be the rikudo sages life force thats able to control the bijuu the way the first hokage did.

  88. What’s overrated in Naruto is this concept of the new surpassing the old, albeit techniques, hokages, or power levels… For example, is there anyone who would believe The Sage of The Six Paths would lose a battle any current or past character in Naruto? The First Hokage was the most accomplished Hokage, and it had nothing to do with the number of techniques that he didn’t know… Jiraiya stated that knowing a million techniques was pointless, or something like that. Ya’ll get the point… The First could control all of the Tailed beasts… ALL OF THEM. That in itself puts him in the most difficult to defeat category, along with a select few from the Naruverse.

  89. In the Naruverse, I personally don’t think you can make the mathematical argument where if A beats B, and B beats C, then in conclusion A will definitely beat C (ie: A>B; B>C; therefore, A>C by deductive reasoning)… this is the DBZ formula, but is also pretty typical of all fighting-style manga. An excellent aspect that I love about this manga is that STYLE matters in fights. For example, it’s implied that Orochimaru can beat (is stronger than) Jiraiya, however, Itachi & Kisame both balked at taking on Jiraiya together even though Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru (Orochimaru even admitted this himself).

    I really think Kishi has consciously written this into the Naruverse on purpose to make things interesting and stir up debate. I mean, we’ve all been debating this to a certain degree throughout the manga haven’t we? The injection of this uncertainty definitely makes the ‘what-if’ matchups very interesting and makes the debating possible.

    Further, I’m not trying to say someone like Konohamaru who’s a newbie can take out a Jounin because Konohamaru’s style can just dominate the Jounin’s style – I think we can all agree that the strengths of the two characters must be relatively within a reasonable range for this theory to work out.

    Anyway, with regards to the Shodaime Hokage getting so much flak… I think there’s a possibility that if he were alive today, he may still be the strongest. IMO, the “new generation overtakes the old generation” theme can be interpreted as the “average new generation shinobi” will be stonger/wiser/better looking/etc than the “average previous generation(s) shinobi.” There will always be exceptions where a few previous generations’ shinobi(s) will be stronger than the next generation’s strongest shinobi – for example, the Third Kazekage is regarded as the strongest Kazekage ever.. but if you follow the ‘new gen > old gen’ argument literally, then Gaara should be the strongest Kazekage ever, but he isn’t. This isn’t to say that Gaara won’t eventually become stronger than the Third Kazekage at his prime. Hope this makes sense.

    Also, even if Shodaime Hokage at his prime is weaker than the current Heavyweight Champion Shinobi – implied and assumed to be Uchiha Madara –Madara has had about 40+ years to improve his strength, assuming Shodaime Hokage died 40 years ago (he probably passed away earlier than that).

    Sorry for the essay. Congrats to all those who finished reading!

  90. @ Kisu The flying Thunder god technique doesnt just work when you Through the Special Kunai as Rin had one with her and she did not Throw it in that Episode! as Minato Apologised for not getting there in time!

    I think Minato would Win Against Nagato but it doesnt mean it wouldnt be a tough fight!!!

  91. madara said to Naruto”the fire of the senju clan dwells wthin you,” Although he never said that naruto is the desendants of senju clan… But as far as i know the the words dwells which is also ancestor….

  92. TFTG seems to be a reverse summon to whatever has that pattern on it, in the case of war, the kunai that were thrown. Or in Rin’s pocket or whatever.

    “The Fire of the Senju clan dwells within you”. Notice that Konaha embraces the “Will of Fire”. This is exactly what Madara meant, that the teachings passed down by the hokage are strong in Naruto. He has the “Will of Fire”.

    Its hard to judge who would win what fight. Minato could probably destroy pain, simply because the TFGT would easily allow him to get around and destroy all of the other bodies, and then get within the 5 second timer on God realm’s ability. Then again, If Nagato used Gedo Mazo it would end up differently.

  93. Just a random thought on defeating Pein, what do you think would happen if you attacked Pein from above? If you could hit the technique on the Apex of the dome (his wall o’ gravity) then wouldn’t it fail against real gravity?

  94. well, I’d really like to debate Pain vs Minato, but Pain is my favorite character and thus, I often get angry when I read some of these comments. Everyone seems to judge him on his “defeat at Naruto’s hands” (this is where i normally criticize whatever I put in quotations, but i wont this time), when in fact he was the strongest ninja in the series (I’m not gonna call Madara strong until he actually does something).

    @star69, I agree with you, to an extent. Asuma surely didn’t surpass Sarutobi. BUT in this case, I have to go with what Kishimoto said. He said that Minato is the strongest of the dead ninjas and Sarutobi is second (or Sarutobi is first and Minato’s second, not really sure, but both of them are in the p two). Think about this, back in Hashirama’s time, ninja Academy’s didnt exist. The training now might be WAY better than the training in that time, the ninja tools, the jutsus etc. AND we got to see what happens when old meets new, and it resulted in Sarutobi landing SEVERAL killing blows on BOTH Tobirama and Hashirama (they couldn’t die because of Orochimaru’s jutsu).

  95. @ Kisu,

    I wasn’t aware of Kishi’s comments. I was interpreting things based internally on what’s been implied and foreshadowed in the manga – didn’t use any extraneous info.

    I’m just trying to make the case that STYLE matters in this manga because so many ppl use the A>B, B>C, therefore A>C logic.

    Anyway, I’m not against the notion that the 3rd and 4th are the strongest among all the dead shinobi (I’m with you on this and believe it to be the case). I’m just saying that the ‘new gen > old gen’ theme doesn’t preclude someone from the old gen to be stronger than a new gen shinobi (of comparable experience and skill level).

    With regards to the 1st & 2nd vs Sarutobi fight, I argue that the 1st and 2nd weren’t fighting at full strength. I mean Oro knew that they could regenerate, so he was most likely using them as puppets to play around and have some fun with Sandaime Hokage b/c Sandaime was so emotional and nostalgic. You have to admit, getting caught with an explosive tag on your limb is a pretty sad way to go down for a Kage… Also, we don’t know for sure if the 1st and 2nd couldn’t be killed if Sandaime took out both bodies completely. Sandaime had to resort to the soul-4-soul finisher.

    Another point about that fight is that both 1st & 2nd were zombies. They didn’t seem the most ‘responsive’ if you know what I mean. Oro’s jutsu just controlled their actions but obviously didn’t reciprocate by having Oro feel their pain/sensitivity – the jutsu basically made the 1st and 2nd puppets. What I’m trying to say is that even if they were caught in a bear trap, they would still be moving forward and not try to get out of the bear trap. If they weren’t zombie’s, they would probably notice (dare I say avoid) the explosive tags that the Third placed on them. If anything, the Third being able to place explosive tags on those 2 only highlights how the Third fooled the puppet master controlling the two puppets (Oro).

    I don’t think there’s any question the Third at his prime was the best shinobi and greater than the 1st and 2nd at their prime (still not sure if a prime Third could take on both 1st and 2nd at their prime since this would be quite the feat).

  96. @Mart1
    I dont think that would work. God Realm caused himself to be a source of gravity/magnetic force. Naruto attacked Pain on all sides remember (After breaking out of chibaku tensei, the clones that were stones), and the jutsu still had effect on all of them. His magnetic/gravitation force is much more powerful and concentrated than the earths, but has a limited range of effect.

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