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Naruto Chapter 589 So about those Edo Tensei……

Salutations ladies and gents and welcome to another Naruto summary. This particular chapter was all over the place for me so excuse me if my summary reflects that. Our chapter starts off exactly where our last one left us with the kage staring down a god-like Hack I mean justu called “perfect” Susa-no-o. The kages tremble in fear as the realization that it’s over finally soaks in like a stain on a soiled carpet. Speaking of soiled items take a look at Onoki’s face in the last panel on that page…..PRICELESS. On a serious note we get to see just what perfection can do as he commands his Susa-no-o to cut a couple of mountains. Then Madara says something that is alittle…odd. he says that “If it’s just me….the area in which the map needs to be repainted needs to be smaller”.  Honestly, I think kishi is running out of awesome one-liners for Madara so I’m relieved to see him go. Onoki tries to remember his bout with Madara and is forced to understand that what he perceived as a victory, wasn’t even considered playtime to Madara. This just makes me want to see what happened in the Fight between Madara and Hashirama even more. An OVA or something along those lines would make me one happy camper. But this chapter brings in some almost story breaking information. Madara boldly proclaims that his Susa-no-o is capable of “destroying matter” with one of its swipes and even the tailed beasts can’t stand up to it…… o_O. I’m sorry but really? So if that’s the case why even use the tailed beast’s in your first bout? why not just use the bad-ass samurai that you got? . My reasoning for this is that this is one of the techniques he obtained after he recieved the Rinnegan. Along with the abilites of the 1st, It’s become clear that this Madara isn’t exactly the same as the one in the orginial fight by not being like him period. If you factor that aspect in all of this can be swallowed a little better. Mind you it’s still a big pill to swallow but I’ll give it a shot. We switch speeds and return to Itachi in the process of stopping the Edo Tensei clones. Honestly I’ve been antipictiating what sasuke will do/say here for a long time. He didn’t disappoint at all by staying true to his natural evil self. Boasting with a disturbingly calm demeanor that he hasn’t changed his mind about his mission to destroy the leaf. Then we are treated to a slew of reaction shots from the multitude of characters who are fighting the Edo Tensei characters. The biggest I-spy moment for me is Itachi’s last words. It looks like he is reaching for sasuke but I think it references his devotion and love for his country by even in his death he is still compelled to protect the two things that are most important to him. In conclusion the chapter was everything I expected it to be. Sometimes the standard issue Naruto chapter is good but to me this chapter also represents a climax in the naruto story that we’ve all been waiting for. We are even closer to seeing a resolution to this war plus the return to the battle of  Naruto/Killer Bee VS. Tobi. With Tobi boasting that he is the Next SOSP and Madara using these epic variations on moves we’ve seen before I think that His battle with the kages (to me) is forshadowing for just what Tobi really can do. I’m super excited for it guys and can’t wait to see how kishi will handle this gargantuan battle! Unfortunately next week there is no Naruto chapter but I’ve got something that’ll help feed you Naruto junkies until our favorite drug dealer finally whips up another batch of that ol’ Naruto goodness.

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76 Responses

  1. Well you can watch a pretty good battle between Madara and the First Hokage by playing Naruto Generations.

  2. I have a sneaking suspicion that BG MAGNUM may not disappear like the other summons. His rinnegan powers may be far to advanced or Kabuto may have used a special summoning technique with him. I wonder is his susano -o is more powerful than Nagato’s statue thing. I wonder who would win in a one on one fight between those 2, hmmmmm.

  3. By those 2 I mean statue and susano-o. Because at this point I think BIG MAGNUM would smash Nagato pretty bad. Another reason I think BIG MAGNUM may stick around is because he is going to see Sasuke, and see what the current generation of Uchiha can do.

  4. Something I find strange is how could Sasuke not know about Madara as he was growing up being an Uchiha. That’s just baffling.

  5. Well notice how Big Magnum staes that only Mega Magnum “can” (not “could”) stop him.
    What Big Magnum said was not odd, he said that it was a good thing for the kages that Mega Magnum wasn’t around cuz if he was, the destruction their battle will cause would be twice as great as the one Big Magnum will cause on his own.

    I do hope that Big Magnum doesn’t disappear and ends up being the final villain.

    Mega Magnum must have some insane jutsu even Big Magnum could not steal.

    Will Sasuke kill Kabuto?

  6. Has naruto been fighting gedo in sage mode alone? Cuz it doesn’t look like he’s been using the fox. Perhaps he did learn some new moves.

  7. This Susanoo isn’t hacked. Madara told Oonaki that he didn’t go serious on Oonoki when Oonoki was just a kid back in the day. He is basically saying that Oonoki was not a worthy opponent to even show or use a perfect Susanoo against. He could already use this Susanoo back then and the 1st hokage was the only one that was stronge enough to force Madara to unleash his perfect Susanoo and Madara keeps mentioning how the 1st hokage was the only opponent that could compete with him. That just detroys everybody else’s creditbility. What’s also impressive is how Madara took on two dust technique users back then and beat them both without going serious or revealing his perfect Susanoo!? We know that the dust jutsu is able to blast away imperfect Susanoo but Madara has somehow manage to beat two dust users without showing all his Uchiha powers. This just proves that Madara is probably able to beat the current kages even if he didn’t have the reningan or 1st hokages DNA. Therefore, the perfect Susanoo must have originally belong to his Uchiha powers.

  8. THIS NEW AUTHOR SUCKS. MART1, FTW!!!

  9. @mister your comment was uncalled for.

  10. @nss7 he couldnt use this sussassno against oonoki…. madara had the rinnengan activated when ‘perfect’ sussanno was activated which means that the rinnengan appears to be needed for it (http://www.naruto-scans.com/naruto-588/Naruto_Manga_588/Naruto_588_Scans/16). And madara could not beat the kage without the 1st dna, jutsus and riinnengan… he has been using alot of rinnengan powers to stay alive. remember he had to use the rinnengan against naruto to absorb his rasenshurikan and this perfect sussanno was used to protect against the kages attack to break out of it. if he hadnt he would be dead already. The perfect sussanno was not a part of his original powers.
    @mister_sensei stop trolling lol. syolloge is awesome so far.

  11. I’m glad Sasuke decided not to change his mind about destroying Konoha. Now there’s nothing is standing in the way of the fated battle between Naruto and Sasuke. Now I wonder what Sasuke is going to do now???? I think he might try to kill Kabuto and after that, he might cross paths with Suigestu and Juugo. I don’t know about Karin, but he’s definitely going to meet those 2 sooner or later, especially since they found something that Sasuke could want.

  12. @Token
    Madara been bashing about how these kages are far below the 1st hokage. Knowing that Madara with his original powers was almost as strong as the 1st hokage, it just tells you that the present day kages aren’t even in the same league as Madara or the 1st hokage. The only person Madara said was strong enough or could compete with him was the 1st hokage. That means these kages wouldn’t have been a match for Madara even if he didn’t have Senju power or the rinnegan. Onoki also said why didn’t he see Madara use the perfect Susanoo when they last fought. Madara simply replies that he was the adult and Onoki was just a child so why would he take him seriously. This could be concluded that Onoki saw Madara’s power up to all his imperfect Susanoo form and since Madara said he didn’t take him seriously is hinting that Madara could already perform the perfect Susanoo back then and if he acually got serious, Onoki probably would of saw the perfect Susanoo.

  13. i think you all missed the pivotal component of this chapter!!! I think Sasuke learned the EDO Tensai tech!!!!! he was watching all the signs for it and he has the sharingan! I reckon he is going to know how to use this tech!

  14. all big magnum unleasehes it was awesome….also dont know what is going on with naruto he is in no mode at the moment, i thought he would be on kick ass mode with all the bijuu’s….

  15. Greenpeas, Sasuke only saw how to release the edo not how to create it.

    And about Naruto not being in any mode, true but he is more handling his own by the looks of things and what he says to KB

  16. @nss7 its not possible for madara to have the perfect sussanno then… he needs the rinnengan i dont know how many times i have to say it lol. And oonoki doesnt know that madara needs the rinnengan to summon it… and the madara now is not even close to the real madara before all this.. take away the wood jutsu, rinnengan and first dna and u have a weakened madara. I already mentioned two times without those madara wouldnt even be fighting right now im not sure how u can even argue that….U keep saying madara says they dont compare well madara himself didnt compare to the first as he didnt have half what he does now and he got beat by the first so he is one to talk.

  17. @token
    You’re forgetting that Madara been toying around with the kages almost this whole fight. Madara and the 1st hokage were the only ones strong enough to face each other. Madara fought the 1st himself so he would know how much more powerful the 1st is compare to the present kages. Madara keeps addressing how these kages don’t compare to the 1st hokage’s powers. The only one that could defeat Madara was the 1st hokage. If the present kages combine strength isn’t close to matching the 1st hokage than how can the kages even think that they could beat Madara? Madara original power without the rinnegan and wood jutsu was only second to Senju. If his original powers can take on Senju than he could easily mop the floor with the present kages without the addition of wood jutsu and the rinnegan.

    The whole perfect Susanoo needing the rinnegan is still a mystery. Madara could’ve achieve the perfect Susanoo with the EMS or the rinnegan but it just seems that he has the ab

  18. @nss7 “If his original powers can take on the senju then he could easily mop the floor with the present kage without wood jutsu and the rinnengan” When naruto hit madara with the rasenshurkin what ability did he use? http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v59/c560/15.html
    When the kage were gettin gthe upper hand what did he use?

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c577/13.html

    When the kage had him beat what did he use?

    http://www.naruto-scans.com/naruto-588/Naruto_Manga_588/Naruto_588_Scans/16

    Interestingly when he was almost sealed/beat he turned to the techniques he did not have earlier against the first and the wood clone he never had.

  19. I like your theory but Susanoo is part of the uchihas MS and EMS power. There is a possibility that Madara perfect Susanoo could turn into the god statue of the rinnegan. If you follow me, that the transition from EMS to rinnegan could possibly transform perfect Susanno into a god statue that looks similar to Nageto. That perfect Susanoo was probably achieved when he had the EMS but since he got the rinnegan, it might change into a giant statue eventually. It’s a theory I just came up with.

  20. well the rinnengan is supposedly the final evolution of the sharingan.. so wouldnt this mean that by that theory perfect sussano could only be done by someone with the perfect eye the rinnengan? yes susanoo is a uchiha power however the rinnengan is the final stage of the ultimate uchiha power the sharingan.

  21. @token
    The problem is that edo is hacked. If Madara has his real body, It would have made it more difficult for the kages to defeat Madara if they had to kill him instead of sealing him. It seems that the kage don’t even have to inflict major damage to seal him. They came close to
    Sealing him twice but never came close to killing him. This edo is making it too easy to seal vs if they had to kill them.

  22. What interested me about this chapter was the following:
    1. Sasuke still had his MS activated when the seals were being done (did he learn how to un-do Edo Tensei, which Tobi knows how to use)
    2. Naruto looked well haggered, where is the chakra necessary for his current and upcoming battles going to come from?

  23. Undoing edo is not rocket science you idiots, EVERYBODY knows how to do it. But it does not matter though because only the summoner can undo it, no way can Sasuke control tobi. So it is irrelevant that Sasuke saw how Kabuto undid it. SO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!!

  24. i would like to put something out there, instead of your coined phrase Mega magnum, meaning hashirama, maybe could be called nicknamed super wood! lol

    its my opinion that Madara is performing the OMEGA level techniques because he is abover his prime whilst in EDO TENSEI, i also think he will remain when all the edo tensei’s dissapear, for one he has his own personality so here been let off the chain, this will allow him to use his All powerful rinnengan to change the sealing technique i pressume! seems logical. Seems as though “Super wood” has some sort of ability that can stop Madara, i dont just think it is his pure skills and strength. i remember a cool pic of Hashirama having a huge scroll and lots of Swords/weapons spread out on one of his branches. maybe its something to do with that as in the middle of the scrool was a big seal of some sort.

    If Madara can be the pinnacle of Doujutsu then Hashirama at the time must of been the pinnacle of body jutsu then.

  25. Also maybe im reading into this but dont you think that like yin and yang, one creates form where the other breathes life. dont you think madara is the create while hashirama breathes life with his wood style. ???

  26. @UchihaTheInfamous
    The Uchiha exiled Madara from their clan. That’s why Madara left konoha in the first place. Uchiha wouldn’t bring up a name that they felt brought shame upon their clan to Sasuke.

    @7warlord
    I feel a Taka reunion coming up too. Suigetsu and Juugo holds a secret scroll that could be beneficial to Sasuke. Karin is also making her escape from prison but I’m not quite sure if Sasuke going to be to happy to see Karin again. It’s still interesting to think about.

    @Madzikage
    Good thinking. I keep forgetting that Kabuto demonstrated on how to use edo to Tobi. The only question is if there is more risk factors that Kabuto could have possibly lied about. Tobi does have a huge supply of Uchihas sharingan DNA. He could bring back a whole army of Uchihas back to life if he’s capable of using edo.

    @Matt
    1st hokage represents the body and Madara represents the eyes. The only yin and yang I see Is that one was evil and the other one was good. Then again, the 1st hokage wasn’t entirely good considering how he gave the Uchihas the lower end of the bargain and cast them aside into a tiny corner of Konoha.

  27. @cesc
    I didn’t see any relevance in Sasuke seeing Kabuto’s hand signs on how to cancel edo either. Even if Tobi manage to use edo, I don’t know how sasuke would possibly be able to force Tobi to cancel edo.

  28. Hey mister @sensei if you think it was so easy why didn’t you pick up the blogging yoursele YOU ************€$¤ stop holding me back, let me at him!let me at him! Apologies(on his behalf) Sylloge if you read his comment

  29. Yin and Yang, Madara and Hashirama, Sasuke and Naruto…..BIG MAGNUM is just missing his buddy thats all – I hope he doesnt get sealed off from the cancellation of Edo Tensei – thinking about it doesnt the rinnegan have a “bring a man back from the dead” jutsu that Nagato used?! Also i can easily see the Konoha 8 running into Sasuke just after a taka reunion on their way to Naruto – now that would be an interesting showdown – Neji vs Sasuke, Kiba vs Suigetsu, Shino vs Juugo

  30. I like to know others opinions on this fight given all of madara aka little ” apocalypse ” hack..😨, I mean power-upppps vs the 4th 1 on 1 .. No outside help from another ninja. My money is on the 4th. Just feel that he would be to smart and fast for mardara. What am I basing this off of you ask, the 4th vs tobi battle. I still think tobi and the 2nd hokage will play a big part in this war. Well at least I’m hoping he does.

  31. @teamevolution as much as I love the 4th hokage (probably my 1a fav character next to itachi) it wouldnt be close…. this madara espectially. The 4th as good and smart as he was did now have a powerful jutsu outside the rasengan. And quite frankly the reasengan wouldnt put too much if any of a dent in madara’s susanno. Now before all these power ups and 1v1 without the nine tails that would be interesting and the 4th would have a shot at that specially given madara wouldnt be able to keep up with the 4th’s speed and smarts and time/space jutsus. But with all these insane powerups not even close. madara in a landslide.

  32. @Nss7, yin and yang arnt good and evil there just light and dark! you cant have evil chakra and good chakra! you can have dense and power chakra which appears dark and evil cos of the character but its just energy at the end of the day and how the character manipulates it.

  33. @tensa, are you saying that Hashirama could be ressurected ? cos i thought his soul was trapped by the shinigami? would be ace to see him though but i doubt it.

  34. I think in terms of Naruto, he now has the speed equivilent to his dad and also has the kyubi, that means that he can move the Kyubi at the same speed he can so he could have the advantage, some also suggests that some of the energy from all the other tailed beasts has been instilled in Naruto now which is something that is going to come out at some point. also if we think back Kyubi’s Yang chakra resonated with wood style and created trees so i think something will come of that too.

  35. @nss 7

    But Sasuke new about the valley of the end when he fought Naruto, that’s really puzzling that he didn’t know who BIG MAGNUM was and much as they look a like he should have known the statue was an Uchiha.

  36. @madzikage
    Sauske didn´t have hes Sharingan activated the entire time Kabuto showed how to shut down the edo tensei http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/589/7

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/589/9

    He turned it of during..

  37. @Token
    Don´t forget that the 4th hade a verry god knowledge about easling jutsus to.. And Sealing jutius are extremely dangerous

  38. Is Itachi such a good guy??…yeah he is undoing the Edo tensi but he is under a genjutsu…the same jutsu that was to make Sasuke protect Konoha.

  39. @RSVP the jutsu that he gave to naruto snapped him out of the edo tensei, it isnt mind controlling him. He has been about protecting konoha since the beginning and remember he purposefully drew out the crow from naruto; http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/549/17 and http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/550 http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/550/5. clearly he was interested to see what would happen and it looks as if he was hoping it might help him out, which it did (http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/550/7 andhttp://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/550/8 ), he basically used what his was supposed to do for sasuke and made it work to his advantage. he isnt being controlled this is his own will

  40. I can see that….Thanks. Afterall he wouldn’t even pull out the crow if he all about destroying the leaf. So that lead me to another question: If Itachi would of captured the 9 nine tails back when they first introduced him what was his end game? Did he intend on getting all the tailed beast for fake Mandara then somehow beating Mandara?? (I doubt that b/c it seems that whosoever has all the 9 bijuu wins; eg SOSP) I know he was going to sacrifice himself to Sasuke no matter what and with the added knowledge that he was using Naruto to reverse genjutsu him into protecting Konohana, I still don’t think if would of been enough.

  41. According to tobi he only went to konoha to remind danzou who’s boss. I think he coulda done a much better job of catching naruto if he wanted too

  42. If itatchi wanted to kidnap naruto he could have. U had itatchi and kisame as a pair against kid naruto sasuke and jiryia…. As strong as jiryia was I’m not sure he could take on itachi by himself much less kisame too. I have a feeling itachi told kisame they would lose cause he knew kisame wouldn’t question him. Kisame as strong as he was clearly saw itachi as the superior fighter and followed his orders. Itachi u notice never tried when confronted by konoha and if he really wanted to take Kakashi on that battle he could have.

  43. The 4th would seal Madara’s ass in no time. I realy can’t and I don’t believe that this susano is stronger than a tailed beasts. The five kages are useless, they don’t know how to seal one crazy dude.

  44. @Token
    I was always a little puzzled by that part of the series. Itachi did leave Jiraiya a trap with the girl (which Jiraiya did not fall for). Perhaps he had to put on some show for Kisame, but not one that wouldn’t alert Jiraiya to trouble. You say that Itachi and Kisame could have killed Jiraiya, I’m not so sure.

    Jiraiya was able to enter Sage Mode while fighting against Pain and I am sure he could have done it in that scenario as well. When we were first shown Susanoo it looked like no jutsu could get past it, but now we know that power jutsus can defeat it and Jiraiya is full of those, especially when in Sage Mode.

    Even though Jiraiya did not know about MS jutsus at the time (he did not know what Amaterasu was) he knew a lot about genjutsu and normal sharingan I’m sure. Worst case scenario I think Jiraiya would have Ma & Pa toad have Naruto transported to Myobokuzan.

  45. @ripcord u saying he didnt know anything about ms gives itachi mroe of a advantage….. knowing alot about a normal sharingan would be useless against itachi as his skills with it are beyond most uchiha probably with the exception of madara and to a certain extent sasuke. Also itachi only has used susanno as a last resort/against an opponent who he was unsure about their abilities. I believe itachi is one of the top 7 strongest ninja ever outside the sosp, first hokage, madara, third hokage, nagato (although that would be interesting to see) and the fourth hokage.
    @ordem for one thats easier said than done as madara is probably the third strongest ninja ever outside the first and the sosp. And to say this sussanno isnt as strong as a tailed beast isnt necesarrily an accurate statement… not all the tailed beast have the power to destroy mountains with a single blast (like shukaku who by what ive seen isnt that impressive) And the five kage had him sealed until he got another hack move in perfect susanno and was able to use wood clones. This madara i dont even count as madara lol he is too hyped up and op. The 4th hokage had a fun time with tobi imagine him against the strongest uchiha ever and with ems. I love the fourth but to say that it would be easy is a joke. Im not even sure he could beat madara.

  46. @UchihaTheInfamous
    “But Sasuke new about the valley of the end when he fought Naruto.” Sasuke might have knew the name of the area or knew where it was on the map. He didn’t specifically know who the statue represented and there was no way he would know that one of the statue was Madara if he was never educated on him before the fight with Naruto at the Valley of the End.

    @teamevolution1
    The 4th wouldn’t be able to stand a chance against edo Madara or even the original Madara for that matter when Madara had the large fan on his back and the Kyuubi. Against the Kyuubi, the 4th didn’t have any jutsu to stop the Kyuubi except resorting to a forbidden sealing jutsu that took his own life. If the 4th had trouble stopping the Kyuubi by himself than he wouldn’t be able to fight Kyuubi and Madara’s Susanoo at the same time.

    @Token
    You have to treat the Kyuubi like a summning jutsu. If you look at Nagato or any of the three sannins, one of their main jutsu is summoning animals so you would have to treat Madara summoning the Kyuubi like a summoning jutsu. you can’t take that away from a shinobi’s game.

    @ripcord
    Jiraiya would not be able to defeat Itachi. Itachi Susanoo easily took down someone like Orochimaru in what it seems to be like less than a minute. Jiraiya doesn’t have the speed to dodge an attack from Susanoo or even an Amaterasu. Amaterasu was able to catch someone as speedy as Sasuke. Jiraiya may or may not be slower than Sasuke wouldn’t be able to avoid getting burn by Amaterasu unless he has the speed of the Raikage to dodge it but he doesn’t.

  47. @nss7 actually the Kyuubi is way different than nagatos summons. It’s a tailed beast for one and made only could summon it in the wild which was rare as usually the tailed beasts were either in a human or held by the village. How mascara got the nine tails in the first place was never explained but how could madras use the Kyuubi against the fourth if the Kyuubi is in someone? Assuming the fight did happen in the fourths time the Kyuubi was sealed so it wouldn’t be possible for madara to use it against the fourth so therefore all minato would have to worry about is susanno and the rinnengan not the nine tails

  48. @Token
    You can’t put a match up fight between Madara and the 4th if the Kyuubi is already seal. That means the 4th would be dead before he could fight Madara. remember, he died sealing the Kyuubi. Madara has control over the nine tails the same why Nagato or the sannins have control over their animals so you can’t subtract the kyuubi from Madara’s battle strategy.

  49. @nss7 the Kyuubi was sealed in kishina so how can madara summon it if they fought??? And before kushina it was in the first hokages wife so madara lost it after their battle…. So the nine tails is not a part of his arsenal

  50. Basically madara had it than it went to the first hokages wife than kushina. So while minato was alive it was never free except when Tobi released it. The fourth died resealing it in naruto……

  51. @Token
    The fight between the original Madara and the 4th would be anything they use before or in their final battle. If you’re picking an event that is after the fight between the 1st hokage and Madara for Madara than he would be dead before he could fight the 4th. Same goes for the 4th. If you pick an event after he seal Kyuubi into Naruto then he would also be dead. In Madara case, to use the original Madara in a match up battle with the 4th, you have to take the event before or when he fought the 1st hokage in which he did have control of the Kyuubi to use in battle.

  52. That implies quite a bit of stuff an also madara did not die at valley I the end…… So theoretically he could have fought minato after that battle in which he lost the nine tails and against the first and the fight would include madara with the rinnengan but no nine tail. So u can’t pick and choose what to give madara it is accurate in a time sense that madara could face minato but instead of the nine tails he had the rinnengan (which honestly is more useful) .

  53. @Token
    To put two shinobis from different time in a battle, you have to take all their skill sets, jutsus, and tools they use up to their final fight. It’s pointless to take an event for Madara after he fought the 1st hokage because he didn’t have any other major fights mention afterwards. He probably was too injured after and didn’t even got a chance to use his rinnegan. You would have to use the knowledge of what Madara did in his last fight against the 1st hokage when he was still healthy to determine if his original powers could beat the 4th hokage. Not when he lost the Kyuubi and is too injured to even fight. That wouldn’t make any sense.

  54. This is one of those arguments where there isn’t gonna be a winner lol….. I will just say I respectfully disagree

  55. @nss

    I see your point and I counter with this: in the academy they learned about the founders of Konoha, and how the village came to be. So my question is when they got to the fight at the valley of the end, and the merging of the senju and uchiha tribes to found konoha, did they leave BIG MAGNUM out of these lessons?

  56. @UchihaTheInfamous
    Only the higher ups and old shinobis like Danzou knew the full truth about the uchihas past. They kept it secret from everyone else and didn’t want people to know how poorly they been treating the uchihas for many years ever since the foundation of Konoha. In the academy, they must have did a poor job at educating people because Naruto didn’t even know that the 4th was his dad.

  57. @nss7 I think the village purposely left out that the fourth was narutos dad.

  58. Here’s why I have a hard time giving Mardara of now (hack version) the nod in a fight with the 4th. Minato speed was second to none and we all no speed kills. Then add in ftg and say by by to swansoo. Technically the already fought and Mardara had 9 tails and almost died (tobi battle) .and let’s not forget minato is a sage as well. We still don’t know what kind of speed increase that gave him.

    If that’s not enough to convince you well here my last effort. naruto math

    1st beats Mardara
    3 beats 1st & 2nd at same time ( insert everyone excuse that they weren’t at full strength , well he’ll Mardara isn’t at full strength but he’s doing ok, so did itachi so miss me with that one)
    3 would get pawned by all other hokages sorry to say.

    P.s , Thanks everyone for responding to my question. I love reading everyone’s theory.

  59. @team for one they never fought as tobi is not madara. if it was madara than how could he be a edo. 2 speed kills but u need more than that. susanno takes away that advantage easily and what jutsu could the 4th use to get past perfect susanno. 3 whent he 3rd hokage fought both the first and second he was facing watered down versions. Not only that but that was so early on in the series im not sure kishi really knew how big he was gonna make the first hokage out to be. This madara is beyond 100% he is at like 150%. 3rd hokage was supposedly tied with the fourth hokage for most powerful but after hearin madara speak of how the first hokage was second only to the sosp in terms of myth and prowess im beginning to doubt that the 3rd is the strongest or tied for it.

  60. @ nss7 in a earlier comment you said that it would be harder to kill madara but i can argue that its harder to subdue someone than kill them and if madara was really alive the strain of using all them jutsus woul be such a strain on his body that he couldnt keep it up

  61. @token, i don’t get how you can conveniently disregard the 1st and 2nds appearance as kish didn’t no how important he was going to make them. A loss is a loss and the fact remains that the first was pawned by the 3rd even with the 2nd help. Also history showed that he struggled with kakazu to. He fought a far lesser version than naruto and could not finish the job. Back to the main topic of the 4th vs current mardara. Answer me this who else had a run on sight warning. What’s to stop the 4th from using ftg to get rid of a big, slow target like swansoo. And keep in mind right now in kabuto possession is the end of madara the amazing hack. Last but not least we still have not seen the 4th in sage mode and we all no what a power boast that is for naruto. Mardara wood clones would be useless as sage mode can sense the real one. And you say tobi isn’t madara but isn’t it kish the one who wrote the connection. Don’t the both sharingan , riningan and a space time jutsu. Didn’t itachi say so as well. Just tell me anyone who got around ftg. And how did the first die again. I do agree that kish has created some plot hole by contradicting his earlier work but if one thing has stayed constant with kish it’s that the younger generation alway surpasses the older generation. Oh yeah I also recall the 3rd wishing the 4th was alive to stop oro because he couldn’t but he was able to stop the 1st who was able to beat mardara. ☕

  62. Quite a few inaccurate statements…. I’m short on time so I’ll be quick. The first hokage when he was edo used almost zero of the techniques that madras has used that were mokuton. and the wood clones were never used as well which according to madara only he could see thru.
    I woul like the chapter please which states that the first struggled against kakuza.
    The flee on sight order was interesting but by ur logic since the fourth was the only one we know with such orders does that mean he is the strongest? Also how is speed gonna help when susanno completely surrounds the target regardless of speed? As fast as the fourth was he can’t penetrate susanno. If u think he can please give what attack he would use.
    It’s been theory that the fourth was a sage and even if he was sage mode would be hard pressed to fight the ems as well as susanno.
    Tobi cannot be madara as madara is a edo. Only those dead or not sealed can be a edo summon so it is IMPOSSIBLE for Tobi to be madara. Also ummm where did it say that madara had space time jutsu? And I btw Tobi had the rinnengan implanted if he was madara how come he don’t have before? And as they r implanted they r always in use which means he didn’t normally have them.
    It’s never been stated how the first died. If so please show manga proof.
    The third wished for the fourth cause 1) he was too old for all this fighting 2) it’s oro not madara do the fourth would have handled oro easily
    They say the younger surpasses the older but that has only applied to ninja like naruto and sasuke, the special ones. Ur telling me that the sosp would lose to one o these present ninja? Or that ANY of these live ninja could face madara with a alone? And not even this one but the madara who awakened it after the fight with the first. Naruto itachi and sasuke and Kabuto r probably the only ones that could

  63. FTG is a speed/teleportation maneuver its not an attack like the rasengan or anything so im no sure what u meant by “What’s to stop the 4th from using ftg to get rid of a big, slow target like swansoo” as the jutsu surrounds madara completely.
    O and u want a counter to ftg;
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/543/1 and http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/543/2and counter attack is here; http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/543/3. looks to me kb got that to a draw and shows a flaw in minato; has to be close at all times.

  64. http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/520/10 here it states y u saying kishi wrote the connection that tobi is madara; calls the soul form the afterlife back to this plane…. sounds like they have to be dead so if tobi was madara how could madara be summoned

  65. @Minatofan
    The 5 kages was fighting to kill Madara but never came close to doing so. The kages however has come close to sealing Madara twice but never have to inflict major damage to seal him. What if Madara was still alive with his original body and can’t be stopped by getting sealed? The kages would have no chance of winning if they never came close to severely injuring him or killing him. The only time the strain from using EMS have been a problem is if the user exceed the use of the MS power or their own chakra limit. We don’t know Madara’s chakra limit or if EMS boost an Uchiha’s chakra limit or not but I doubt a little strain would be a problem for an elite Uchiha warrior like Madara.

  66. People forget that 4th knew the Uzumaki’s sealing jutsus, and that he created new jutsus that are even stronger than originals. So my opinion is, yes, the 4th could seal Madara.

  67. 1) argument was defeat not seal. Two he knew them however doesn’t mean he could apply. He had a rough time keeping up with Tobi imagine a full blooded experienced madara. The fourth is tied for my favorite character but it would be a rough fight for him if madara had the rinnengan or just his normal jutsus.

  68. And what jutsu did he make stronger than the original?????

  69. The 4th was a beast a true ninja not just some hacked rediculously powerful guy who can cut mountains in half but the fact is the only way he can beat madara is if he uses the death god jutsu on madara and i mean the real madara is obviously over powered and hacked to death so unless we see future fights with the 4th that shows he has more insane jutsus tht would beat sussano then we have to believe he cant beat madara and the best he can do is a tie and thts sealing madara with the cost of his life and to be fair if madara was alive and not so hacked a simple kunai could take him down

  70. @Minatofan
    What insane jutsu are you talking about that can beat Susanoo? If you’re talking about the 4th fighting the original Madara than he would have to face Madara Susanoo and his Kyuubi. The fourth had trouble sealing the Kyuubi with the death god jutsu by himself. He needed the help from his wife. What would make the 4th be able to seal both the Kyuubi and Madara at the same time who will be completely protected by Susanoo? The 4th offensive powers won’t be able to penetrate through Susanoo. If you look at The Raikage for example where he has super speed and a attack similar to chidori. The Raikage couldn’t even put a dent in Susanoo. If you apply that to the 4th who has super speed and rasengan that has equal power to a chidori. How would the 4th get pass Susanoo if the Raikage who offense is similar to the 4th couldn’t even put a Measly dent in Susanoo? The Susanoo completely erase any speed and sealing techniques from getting to Madara. I don’t see a scenario where the 4th can possibly tie or win against Madara?

  71. @nss7

    If the battle occurred at VOTE instead of at the village, Minato wouldn’t have had to work so hard to protect anyone else. You say Minato had trouble keeping up with Tobi, but he quickly broke the summoning contract and placed an FTG tag.

    We already know Madara liked to “play” with his enemies unless he felt the battle was serious, and we also know Minato is serious right from the start. We don’t know if FTG could transport Minato INSIDE Susanoo, but if it could then Madara would be in trouble. We already know FTG is faster than the Raikage’s speed and Minato’s reaction time is fast enough for him to attack at that speed (I didn’t realize but this is pretty nuts since Chidori isn’t even that fast and Minato childed Kakashi for not being able to use his own jutsu because it was too fast. Sharingan was needed for Kakashi, but for some reason Minato was able to not need it. NUTS.).

    We don’t KNOW that Minato was a Sage. I doubt it. First off, he was very young and from what we saw in his timeline, there was no time for him to go off and train with the Sages on Myobokuzan. He got the Toad Summoning contract from Jiraiya, which makes sense. When Naruto got Sage training it was only because Jiraiya was dead, it’s not like ALL of Jiraiya’s students got it. Minato was probably able to try it if he chose (and if he had enough chakra), but Sage sadly he was not.

    So Minato would have to end the battle in just a few moves, if it dragged out then Madara wins for sure.

    As to the Jiraiya vs. Itachi, I say the same thing. If Itachi can end it in a few moves then he wins, but if it drags out it’s Jiraiya’s match. I say this based on:

    Intelligence: Itachi slightly better than Jiraiya
    Seals knowledge: Jiraiya > Itachi
    Power: Jiraiya > Itachi
    Speed: Itachi > Jiraiya (unless Sage Mode then they are even)
    Stamina: Jiraiya >> Itachi
    Summons: Jiraiya > Itachi (never seen one)
    Genjutsu: Itachi >> Jiraiya

    Orochimaru only got sealed with the Sword of Totsuka because he stood still and believed in his regenerative abilities. Orochimaru frankly never cared much about getting hit, he would just regurgitate another one of himself. Perhaps the Sword of Totsuka is very fast, but we don’t really know how fast it is.

    I do give Itachi the edge here, because he’s good at ending battles quickly (of course Jiraiya is good at dragging them out too…), but Jiraiya has a good shot.

  72. I also wonder why Itachi didn’t use the Tata’s Mirror against Kabuto to repel some attacks??? Perhaps he was just too busy using Izanami.

  73. —-Yata’s Mirror….

  74. Nss7 im not saying that minato has an insane jutsu that can stand up to sussano physically im just saying that theres a possible chance that he might have some jutsus considering hes a genius and a top notch ninja and weve only seen a limited amount of jutsu from him so thats why i said we need to see more battles from him, specifically his battles with the raikage

  75. @ripcord
    The 4th doesn’t have a jutsu to by pass Susanoo. I use Raikage as example because he got super speed and a jutsu similar to chidori which can be equal to the 4th hokage’s rasengan. yes, the 4th FTG is faster than the speed of the Raikage but even with the extra speed and his rasengan, it wouldn’t make a difference in attempting to put a dent in Susanoo.

    “We don’t know if FTG could transport Minato INSIDE Susanoo, but if it could then Madara would be in trouble.” FTG wouldn’t be able to get the 4th inside. None of the kunai would get pass Susanoo. That completely blocks out the 4th from physically attacking Madara which has always been a big part of his fighting strategy. Without that, the 4th is fruitless against Madara.

    Now to the fight between Itachi and Jiraiya. Quoting myself about what I said to you before. “Jiraiya doesn’t have the speed to dodge an attack from Susanoo or even an Amaterasu. Amaterasu was able to catch someone as speedy as Sasuke. Jiraiya may or may not be slower than Sasuke wouldn’t be able to avoid getting burn by Amaterasu unless he has the speed of the Raikage to dodge it but he doesn’t.” Jiraiya is no where near as fast as the Raikage so he wouldn’t be able to dodge an Amaterasu. Amaterasu also eliminate all of Jiraiya’s summoning jutsu. We saw how easily Sasuke amaterasu took down a tail beast from Killer Bee. Amaterasu against an animal summon would be much easier to take down. Itachi might not even need to go to his Susanoo in this fight and if he does, Susanoo offensively is a lot quicker than amaterasu. Jiraiya speed can’t dodge an amaterasu so what makes it even possible for Jiraiya to dodge Susanoo?

    @Minatofan
    “im not saying that minato has an insane jutsu that can stand up to sussano physically…” What your saying is that Minato doesn’t have a jutsu to get pass Susanoo. The 4th spam FTG and rasengan because those are his main jutsu and best jutsus. It’s like kakashi spamming chidori because that his strongest jutsu and a big reason why he always use it in every single fight. If you completely eliminate the FTG and rasengan from physically touching your opponent than the 4th doesn’t stand a chance. That’s why Madara is the perfect opponent to counter both FTG and rasengan, the core jutsu from the 4th. The big reason why Madara would win.

  76. @nss7 i agree with u on most points except ftg not being able to get thru susanno; it may be possible due to the fact that the 4th doesnt need the kunai to be able to teleport. As noted against kb and tobi the 4th can leave his mark on the target. If he did that it may be possible for the 4th to get inside susanno as its a time/space jutsu and since there is space in susanno the 4th could theoretically get thru it to madara. Again that would assume he could get close enough (which he would be able to as his speed is ridic). I agree madara would win but im not sure its a clear cut and overwhelming as u may think it is

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