Naruto Chapter 508 – Not so terrible after all…

naruto-retro1Post Author: Bob

Oh shark dude, what a fitting end you committed yourself to, like the title of chapter 50 says, it’s a death befitting of a shinobi.  That’s not to say all good ninja should die in a explosion of blood and entrails, but for someone who has lived a life of violence, I can’t see a more appropriate end for Kisame.  Kisame’s sacrifice even made Naruto reconsider about the villain and the former members of Akatsuki; they may be bad guys, but even they are willing to put their life on the line for a cause they believe in.

Kisame remained loyal to the cause he believed in to the bitter end, going as far as destroying his own body to prevent the enemy  from gathering information and making sure his information is returned to Akatsuki even after his death.  During the flashback, Itachi said to Kisame that they do not know what kind of people they truly are until the moment before their deaths — well, I think Kisame proved his worth on that account; he could have saved his own hide by cooperating with his captors, but he fought on to the end to make sure he fulfilled his mission.  You can’t ask for a more honourable death than that for a shinobi.


The flashback to Itachi and Kisame’s first meeting was a nice touch, I just wished Kishi had also added other scenes showing them cooperating in battle or gaining each others’ respect while working together.  Maybe the anime will add some material to this when it is animated.  If you first think about it, Itachi and Kisame seems like a very bad matching: one is very cerebral and calm while the other relies on brute force and bloodlust.  If I had to bet money on this pair lasting more than a mission from the very beginning, I would have laughed and walked away.  But there is a similar quality between the two men that made their partnership work; Kisame thought it to be their common experience in slaughtering their own brethren, but Itachi knew better.  They did share a common background, but it was not the blood on their hands that linked them together.  Neither Kisame nor Itachi chose to be betrayers of their own kin and comrades, but were assigned that role by the villages they swore to protect.  They followed their orders but became outcasts in the eyes of the people they were meant to protect.  During their encounter, Kisame has already confessed that he sees himself as a terrible monster due to what he has done in the past, but Itachi offers some wise words — that they will only realize who they truly are before facing death.  Those words must have had a significant impact on Kisame’s outlook on life since they are the last words he remembers prior to his death.  Those words may seem insignificant to you or I, but to a man like Kisame who has the blood of so many people on his hands, those words may have given him hope for redemption.  Due to the environment he grew up in, Kisame was no doubt taught to be a monster and saw himself as nothing more than a merciless killer.  Itachi’s words may have given Kisame a wider perspective on why he is what he is and even given him a purpose of his own to believe in rather than mindlessly obeying others.  Kisame’s realization before his death that he is “not so terrible after all” is good evidence that he may have saw something better in himself and the life he led in the end.

Now with that out of the way, I’d just like to comment on how stupid the good guys handled the situation after Kisame’s death.  I know the group gathered here isn’t the brightest the ninja world has to offer, but considering that there’s jonins like Yamato, Gai and sunglasses-guy present, couldn’t one of them have yelled out “check for traps before opening the enemies’ scroll?”  Didn’t these guys take the Chunin Exam like everyone else?   Did they forget about the part about not tampering with the scroll you know nothing about – especially if it belongs to the enemy?  Now not only did they not capture Kisame alive, they also failed to prevent Akatsuki from getting all the data on their battle plans.  I’d like to see them explain this one to the kages.

Lastly, it’s really great to see Konan back again.  I would have thought she’d go into hiding after leaving Akatsuki rather than return to Amegakure where Madara is bound to find her.  And it seems Madara is not restricting himself to collecting only Sharingans, but also wants his hands on Nagato’s Rinnegans — what a greedy bastard.  I’m unsure how Konan will fare against Madara in a fight because it is an odd match-up, but seeing as it’s raining and their surrounded by water Konan may be at a disadvantage with her paper based jutsus.  There’s also the possibility that Madara could just cheat by warping in Sasuke and let him do the dirty work for him.  If Konan can escape this, she could join forces with Naruto and the others by providing Akatsuki secrets and even beneficial information about the Rinnegan, but the odds aren’t looking good for her at the moment.

200 Responses

  1. i agree bob. im also kinda interested to see what abilities other then his warping jutsu he has in his arsenal. we havent really seen much of his abilities. he kinda goes on the “the stronger you are the less you have to fight” philosaphy.

    some questions on konan’s jutsu, does she create the paper using water and earth elements? if so wouldnt that give her an advantage with all the water around? i ask as i am unsure. i would definitly like to see her defect to konoha, i think that would be great for the alliance, though i see her being dead very soon.

  2. oh, tobi i the object of my first paragraph.

  3. Oh Yeah! I’m 1st! She’ll get away, but Madara will get the Rinnegans. This bad guy must be super strong to make the destined child look even more powerful than all other Ninjas.

  4. Never mind the being 1st line. 3rd is ok I guess. Konan must have some good water skills since she’s 4rm a water / rain country, i guess maybe fire is her biggest weakness, and Uchiha Madara must be good in fire techniques just 4 being an Uchiha.

  5. madara has to be someone that has been in the manga the entire time, but we have never thought to look at them as the villian. because now his moves are becoming more and more suspicious. and the reason i think that he is going eye crazy is because, kakashi i guess was the proof that u didn’t need to have the bloodline to obtain the eye. so look out and pay attention to his movements from now on, i think when he or kabuto reveals who madara really is,it is gonna mess us up so bad that i don’t think that we will ever trust the good guys again, let me rephrase this, we won’t overlook that the good guys could be the bad guys.

  6. @ “the good guys could be the bad guys”
    O_0
    Naruto is Madara!!!
    OMGROFLCOPTER!!!!
    No, but yeah I can see where you’re going with this just_passing. I also think Kishi is going to throw the Naruverse upside down when we find out who Madara really is…

  7. How are u so sure about she getting away

  8. @Bob good come back n maYBE THAT COULD WORK LOL

  9. Is it just a typo, or did Madara mean to call her “Nagato”? Does he think that Nagato did some sort of mind transfer to her before he died?

  10. NO SHARK DUDE NO!

    I think Konan will perish, because all of the Akatsuki are currently being killed off anyway. There was Konan, Kisame, Zetsu and Madara left to pick up the ashes, but Kisame’s down so there is NO hope for Konan.

  11. @ Bob, really glad u came out w/ this today cuz i’m going on a 3-day trip w/ my family tomorrow but wanted to get some discussion on this chapter in b4 then
    also, on Konan and water, wasn’t she A-OK when Pain’s crap completely soaked her in water? i think she’ll b fine.
    @ kaos, i also wonder about that (where Konan’s paper comes from), my best guess as of now is that she uses a highly advanced form of henge, but i’m not sure
    @ just passing, hmm, that would b interesting, but who? maybe Hinata, lol, that would explain y she’s so crazy about Naruto, lol. ooh, or maybe Mizuki, he just dyed his hair is all, lol. this is fun :)

  12. Ninja Fail, hilarious, major lols. Your too much Bob :)

    @kisu if Tobi is going after the rinnengan, that means Kabuto isn’t able to resurrect Nagato with his eyes. But I agree that we need to see more of Kabuto’s Edo Tensei before we can tell how really screwed the 3 man Akatsuki (Tobi, Sasuke, Zetsu) is. I don’t count Kabuto because we all know he cant be trusted. And btw last we saw Anko’s group followed Kabuto to the Akatsuki hide out. Whatever happened with that.

    @bringer your suggestion as to why he wouldn’t be able to use Nagato’s eyes if Kabuto could bring him back with rinnengan makes sense after I have thought about it some more.

    I think Konnan is in line to be tortured or genjutsued, because if Tobi just kills her, looking for the rinnegan is going to be like the proverbial needle in a hay stack.

    Also I thought the Hidden Rain was in a land locked country. Are they just on a large lake/river?

  13. Why did Madara not address konan by name? Why would Madara speak to konan as if she were nagato The simplest explanation would be that it’s just a typo, or It might also be a translation error. If so, other versions of this chapter may have corrected it. I don’t think this incedent is accidental in any way, though. Madara is probably a master at doubletalking. Didn’t he call Naruto something like a follower of the Senju one time. Based on the recent flashback, Madara could have come out and said that he was a descendant or a close relative of the Senju. I think that the same kind of double meaning applies here. When he suggested that he wanted to find the rinnegan, he most likely meant that he wanted to find Nagato and only mention his name for emphasis. Maybe Nagato’s not really dead after all, at least to the extent that his spirit has passed on. Plus, konan doesn’t have rineggan eyes so that rules out the idea that she is being posessed by Nagato. She might just want to cut to the chase and degend the honor of her fallen frie=ends. I might be overanalyzing the situation and spreading onfusion, but I think it worth pointing this situation out, because it calls into question the validity of a major triumph by Naruto in major triumphs in all of part II. It is just interesting. Am I off the mark ? Is Nagato dead or not?

  14. I really do hope to see Konan fight well and actually survive or get away. But for some odd reason that is not going to happen…

    Damn Madara/Tobi is one annoying ass character

  15. @ lord hyuga, uhm, i think Kabuto can bring Nagato back w/ his eyes, but Madara want’s direct control over the Rinnegan, and if he tries pulling them out of Nagato’s revived bodies, they’ll just disolve and return to him (Nagato). but that’s just my theory

  16. @ hyuga
    that’s an interesting theory. Her being captured and tortured for info will also open the door for our newest sage of the 6 paths naruto to rescue her and be able to show us his new abilities.

  17. is there any posibilities that kisame escape …with the shark?

  18. lmao at guy saying that he’ll remember kisame forever, how ironic was that bs.

  19. I ask myself how Madara could manage to get info out konan, but someone who can manipulate a kage it wouldnt be a problem to crack konan

  20. @ Bringerofkaos, I left you an apology on Naruto 508 is Here! Got check it out. Again sorry for the misconception.

    Bob that was a great analysis. I can’t wait for this battle between Konan and “Madara” and see what you have to say next time.

    Like ftw said. Now Guy remember Kisame’s name and face. like ftw name says backwards, WTF….now you remember…. lol ironic as hell.

  21. @ryu
    don’t worry about it. I also lost my temper, though durected elsewhere its still the same. Just gets me when people openly disrespect the community. Shoulda ignored and didn’t.

    Back to naruto, how did the shark with the scroll survive when the rest disapeared? Doesn’t the jutsu dissolve when its user dies?

  22. I thought so too, but not really. Summonings are their own beings. Some are intelligent to talk, some are not but they are their own being and can think and act on their own.

  23. “Is it just a typo, or did Madara mean to call her “Nagato”? Does he think that Nagato did some sort of mind transfer to her before he died?”

    I’m pretty sure it’s just a translation thing. When Madara said “tell me where you hid the rinnegan… Nagato” he is demanding to know the location of Nagato’s body, which is where the rinnegans are.

  24. Damn I think everyone read it. We know what he meant by it I bet but that was a good catch Bob.

  25. Hey bob, any theories on how konans paper jutsu works? One person sugested that its a high level transformation jutsu. I think its similar to yamato in that its a combination of elemental chakra, most likely water and earth. After all paper is wood.

  26. @Konan’s jutsu, its called the Shikigami technique

    @Bob, once again I bow in awe at your writing skills

    @Kisame’s death, that was the most epic death eva! He beat out even Zabuza’s death in my opinion. Anyway, I think Konan’s gonna put up a hell of a fight, and will prevent Madara from getting the Rinnegan. She was strong enough to lead a Village AND be one of the top members of the Akatsuki. Counting her out is kinda silly :)

  27. @ kisu.
    Do you know how it works?

  28. BRUTALITY!!!

    just for once i’d like kishi not to kill off a character after making them so awesome. tite just did the same thing with gin. damn mangakas!

    i wonder what tobi will do with the rinnegan. one would think because he wants to sync sasuke with gedo meza, that he would give them to him, but this is my theory:

    tobi knows sasuke is a loose cannon. now that sasuke has a power that should be able to rival his own (especially since he is in physically better shape) then maybe even tobi can’t stop him, but what if there is one step further in the doujutsu evolution, beyond EMS? sounds ridiculous, but the number one rule is to keep your ace in the hole to yourself, so of course tobi wouldn’t tell anyone. so the only way he can keep sasuke in check is by upgrading his eyes, by applying the rinnegan somehow. after all, the juubi’s eyes were a sharingan and rinnegan fused.

    (this is all of course assuming that tobi really is madara, and actually does already have the EMS)

  29. Noooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I hope Konan doesn’t die, she’s one of my fav female characters. But I just can’t see her getting out of this.

  30. How many major good guy characters have died since the begining of chapter 1 of naruto (and stayed dead)?…The only ones I can think of are Sarutobi and Jiraiya. And when they died people really got tore up about it. Which brings me to my point that I don’t think Konan has a good chance of making it pass Mandra Her death would be a safe way of showing us how powerful the Aatsuki (specifically Mandara) really are or without killing any of the major “good-guy” characters of the story. However, If this is suppose to be a war..there should be casualties on both sides. I hope this story doesn’t end up like X-men where wolverine would use his claws to destroy robots but never even cut up any flesh or blood charcters…or G.I Joe when the bad guy’s jet would get blown up but then you see that tiny parachute pop up in the background. COME ON LET’S SEE SOME OF THESE HIDDEN LEAF KIDS GET KNOCK OFF!! Personally I thought when Pein killed Kakashi and Tsunade was unconscious (near death hopefully) it would added more realism to the story…maybe force some of the other characters to step and grow more. Yet we are back to the status quo…the good guys committing genocide on the the bad guys. Just remember..good guys die too!

  31. @cesc: sorry dear but conan has to die……..actually i want her to die coz ppl are dying a lot late than usual.when the konoha civillians were revived i kinda felt bad coz it was all sissy and gay….but now let there be death..

  32. @kisuzachi

    My point exactly, she will put up a good fight.

  33. @Bringerofkaos, the only info ever on Konan’s technique was in the Third Naruto Databool. But Narutopedia has a neat little description of it.

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Dance_of_the_Shikigami

    @Lord Hyuga, http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu151/Cruherrx/World-2_0.gif?t=1283484095
    Hope that answers your question about Amegakure

  34. from what I have seen from Konan and Madara
    Konan has the advantage her paper body just beats Madara’s warping if he tries to suck her up she can turn into paper and getting out of his techs range while attacking him with her paper

    Water has been show to have no effect on Konan’s jutsu he used her paper shuriken in the rain has flown around her ever raining village and Nagato actully used water to wash off the oil Jiraiya covered her with

    Her paper was also shown to over power a fire jutsu from Jiraiya

    I don’t see anyway for Madara to beat her unless Kabuto sent some zombies to help him
    I think she will force him to retreat

  35. @envy

    I guess we will see a new jutsu from madara….it have to be more than just warping….cause he is still the mightest shinobi who is actually alive….so he was just playing around when he faced the other shinobi

  36. Did someone noticed that Naruto put his hands together to gather natural energy….on page 10….why….if he needs a boost he just activate his new power….it would be also faster than to do it the other way

  37. @ultimate, but doesn’t sage chakra also heal him at a faster rate, maybe he was going into healing mode, only if kisame had more fight in him. cause to tell u the truth, i don’t see how he and yamato and bee couldn’t escape the water prison.

  38. It would take even much more time to gather natur energy and after that heal his wounds….escape the water prison….there is a way….teleportion…..but we had this discussion already and and we dont know yet if its was that kind of jutsu

  39. Hoshigaki Kisame!!! I’ll remember your name for the rest of my life.

    What a perfect way to end the running joke between Gai and Kisame. It made me howl.

    Best line of the manga PERIOD.

  40. konan must escape, or else, the good side will be in trouble…she held information of akatsuki…
    if that is the case, she will be killed, it should be that the shark must not reach any of the alive akatsuki so to be fair…

  41. @ http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs26/f/2008/172/6/8/Naruto__The_Plot_Chickenz_by_vashperado.jpg

    Looks like someone already came up with that theory in ’08, I am wayyyy late to the game on this one. Damn chicken plot hacks… not as bad as Sasgay plot hacks though
    http://i33.tinypic.com/feosxc.png

  42. Im thinking that Konan will have some idea of Madara’s powers! and she was brought up in Amegakure so i would presume she knows how to use her technique pretty well with the never ending rains. Dont really fancy her chances though if am honest but it will be an interesting fight none the less.

    I wonder if naruto will use his SSP mode and break free to go after the shark? I know hes knot a natural when it comes to swimming but it could be a possibility!

    I know it was rather obvious but i did get it right about Kisame doing a suicide move :D wuhoooo!!

  43. I would presume that Madara will torture Konan if he wins until she gives up the secret to where the rininngan eyes are as i dont think she would give up the info easily! maybe she will! I think Konan is clever and has hid them somewhere other then in Amegakure. maybe in there old secret cave where they used to get out of the rain. Its as if Konan has been waiting for Madara to show up! maybe she has set a trap?

  44. @Bob, I was wondering if I am still an author because I can’t publish post anymore and if I am could someone email me the link to the authors lounge and password because I forgot it.

  45. Some people were wondering about why Naruto said Nagato acted for his comrades, not sure if it was said yet but I think he was refering specifically to the relationship of Nagato AND Konan together. We still see that continuation as Konan continues to protect Nagato now even in death.

  46. I think things won’t go as easy for Madara as he may think, I think Konan knows what she’s up against and have planned for it, she may not be able to beat him but she will probably send Naruto a message where she hid the Rinnegan. I wonder is Kishi is going to give Naruto the Rinnegan.

  47. i agree with all of konan is going to put up one heck of a fight…..but lets face it ppl we still dont what madara has up his sleeves(literally)…….konan can disperse herself but still would it be enuf? but ithink he’s gonna need help with this one…..

  48. btw kisame so nailed the four,including gai……it was hillarious!!

  49. i dont think naruto is going to get the rinnegan kishi said naruto was going to have the crazyest (is that spelled right )eyes ever. o and it would be nice to see konan alive its not like she is going to be eazy to beat.

  50. I give her 2 chapters maybe 3 with flashbacks

  51. you make me laugh ryu, you say you already have a wife and a kid? and yet you still engage in fan-fiction writing, something you aren’t even good at? I pity your family, if you do have one.

    wake up ryu, go out and learn English in the world they call life – perhaps you’ll learn how to make sense via writing.
    there’s hope for you yet, don’t wait till you get too big and fat for your mom’s basement door.

    and again, I hate all the fan-fic clutter and seriously believe that I’m not alone in this. Yes I can filter it out, but crap smells even if you cant see them. If you truly care for your site Bob, you’ll put all this crap in one page and let the flies who enjoy it be there on their own.

  52. @dont like clutter-

    you need to wake up, go out and learn manners. that was not only uncalled for, but also handled horribly. if you want to make a point, do it maturely, not just throwing out your own insensitive opinions without concerning for other’s feelings.

  53. ultamate
    Madara is not that strong I would put him near the bottom of Akatsuki’s tier list just above Hidan

    His only known power is warping and i think its all he has
    Madara is not that strong Pain and Itachi beat him anyday of the week did you not see how easily Madara kicked his ass

    Madara is far from the strongest I bet that Kabuto will take his spot as the Main villain

  54. @ssj Don’t let that little boy get to you. He got to myself and other and we let him or her start a flame war which should not be done on this site. This is a well respected Naruto fan site. I could reply to the stuff he or she said about me but sorry I got my senses back and I am too grow to get into it with a boy or girl. I do that with my own kids. Yes I do like to write fan fic, watch anime, read manga, It is called a hobby. Just a big kid at heart not a big kid in life.

    Anyway I will not say that Madara is weak at all. You have to remember he was ordering the strongest of the Akatsuki member, The so called leader Pain/Nagato around. Not badly or anything but if you can order the man with the strongest eyes to do something only one or two things it can be.
    o-We respect Madara for Akatsuki’s creation despite his powers
    o-or Madara is a lot stronger now but choices to hide his power to make many think he is weak.
    This is a man that fought Minato but had to stop because of the seal Minato placed on him, chased Kabuto wanting to kill him until Kabuto showed him the Resurrection jutsu. I think Madara is a stronger than we all give him created for and next battle will hopefully show something more than disappearing and reappearing.

  55. @ssj
    shut up fuckface, this doesn’t involve you.

    SSJ = Shush and Shutup, Jackass

    (now that’s writing for you, writer wannabes)

  56. @ryu

    “I am too grow to get into it with a boy or girl. I do that with my own kids.”

    you’re sick, you’re getting into it with your very own kids? to do sick stuff with kids is something, to do it on your own children is major sick – you ought to be jailed.

    and yeah, you still can’t compose your thoughts coherently. you suck up big-time when it comes to writing, and you call yourself an author?

    I hope I can create rasengans and do facepalms everytime I try to read an understand your posts ryu, seriously.

  57. @envy

    There has to be a reason why Nagato and all the other from Akatsuki obeyed Madara….some did because they were believing in his idea like Kisame ohters like Nagato I guess followed him because they thaught that his power is great enough to bring peace…someone like Hidan or Kakuzu wouldnt obeyed Madara if they thaugth they were stronger than him….there are two possibilities how this series will end…..Naruto-Madara or Naruto-Sasuke….and I think final opponents are always the strongest.

  58. @Ultimate

    my brain hurts from trying to understand what you just wrote. wait, let me try again…

    *bangs face on macbook’s monitor*

  59. wasnt adressed to you maybe you try to ignore it just like fan-fics

  60. Don’t like clutter yeah really dude you sound like a prick just because your not into fanfics don’t mean other ppl don’t I enjoy them an say everyone who likes to write them should your not being forced to read so if it bothers you that bad just don’t click on the fanfics anyways on to the things that matter I really don’t think konan has a chance not saying she is weak just that it’s madara an he’s just not goin to lose I really hope konan doesn’t die with out a cause hopefully she will be able to send nagato eyes to naruto or something . Is everyone this excited about this fight unless she has knowledge of madaras powers she’s gonna get owned I mean jiraiya handled her pretty easy but I guess ppl lime kisu would say she was just paired up with the wrong guy talking about someone who can use toad oil

  61. @ Ultimate

    by writing it in comments, youre basically addressing everyone, moron.

    @ MinatoFan

    am not surprised you like fan-fics, like them you dont understand the concept of punctuation marks and “coherent writing”. love your own I guess…

  62. you say so “basically”, but I adressed it to envy
    I am sorry to cause you headachs….try a chill pill and than you can speak to my hand if you want

  63. Don’t like clutter I’m not going to take away from someones story over punctuation marks an things that don’t really matter if you get the story an just really enjoy then your not going to be focused on writing errors just the story you sound like a perfectionist and honestly if you don’t like reading fanfics over that you got to be one of the biggest douches ever

  64. Do not get into it with this low life. I know I will get backlash by the little prick but hey I am addressing my fellow members not “it”. All “it” is trying to show is what “it” learned in English and Writing class at the beginning of the school year. I made the mistake of commenting back at “it”. Nothing “it” said affects me but I felt I had to take up for us and protect my fellow member and our work. I don’t mind taking the blunt of “it” frustrations. However it was mistake that I regret and now “it” will not leave and is starting a flame war. So guys leave it be. Continue to talk about the analysis and theories at hand.

  65. i changed my mind now.

    i think the rennigans should be implanted in naruto. now THAT would make him complete.

    nice analysis there bob. i too believe that itachi’s words were kisame’s final salvation. nothing less of my man itachi.

  66. If dont like clutter (who apparently has no idea about grammar) is really concerned about kids, he should look to his own language. There are plenty of kids on this website, and while they will likely learn the words you write someday, it isn’t your place to teach it to them.

    Also, we go by merits on this website. Good FanFics will get a lot of comments and readership, and the author will likely write more. Poor ones will not get as much. You could say that’s why I stopped my series, although the manga also progressed to a point that took away a lot of my ideas.

    In any case, when I was growing up, my dad watched Bugs Bunny among other things, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t intelligent or a great dad, he has been a successful Engineer thoughout his life, including working on the International Space Station construction. A part of growing up is knowing when to be serious, and when to still be a kid. I’m not a dad yet, but I cherrished those moments where my dad could have fun with me on my own level.

    That’s all I got to say.

    RIP

  67. @ultimate

    “someone like Hidan or Kakuzu wouldnt obeyed Madara if they thaugth they were stronger than him”

    i think only pein, konan, itachi, and zetsu and later kisame knew that tobi/madara was the one really in charge, the other members thought pein was in charge.

  68. guys don’t add to the flame, by even addressing this guy or girl clutter u are giving him all the more reason to respond, he is playing a mind game on u, easy way to win just ignore him. everyone has their likes and dislikes. he doesn’t like fanfic, so let him rant and rav until he runs out of fuel. i don’t like the fanfic neither but i’m not gonna bash them in the manga chapter section, unless i want attention. he yelling where he will be heard, just saying if u want him to go away, just ignore the troll.

  69. @ftw

    you right, but I still think Madara is the strongest shinobi so far….because if Itachi were able to finish him off he would have done it…..Nagato followed him because he believed his way was the only one to peace, if he has thought he would be capable of doing it by himself he would have done it

  70. I honestly believe this is a chapter where Sasuke will finally come out and test his EMS powers. It’s just like Kishimoto to have a setup like this.

    Also the genjustu on Samehada actually being successful is 99%. Why? Well, even though it has no eyes, no ears, and no other bodily features. It’s still a sentient creature. It’s not only a sword. We’ve realized that. Itachi genjustu is great. Great enough to take out more then one person at a time.

    I would like to point out to that Madara will most likely win. I’m pretty Konan can suck up water and use it for advantage against fire, but it’s already raining and if not raining too hard. When we seen her use her powers. Pein (Pain) actually stopped the rain and she fought.

  71. A little disappointed with Kishi not letting us into the world of Kisame and Itachi a little more.

  72. Oh almost forgot.

    @YellowFlash2

    You have made Yagura one of my favorite characters in the show since your FanFic. Even with his modicum of information giving in the show. Thanks. :)

  73. ultamte (sorry Im not the best at spelling)
    Pain was the fake leader Because Madara needed mussle to order the other members around

    Madara in his Prime was beaten by the first (who is not even the most powerful hokage) and was beaten easily by Minato when he was a shell
    Madara has addmited that he is a shell and Konan does not seem afraid of him at all
    Pain is way stronger then him
    Kabuto is stronger too and my bets is that Kabuto takes his spot as main villain (he is smarter and stronger)

    also dont like clutter reminds me of cornwiggle a commenter who hated on me and later everyone else on the site just because I said liked a dub series but somewhat worse

  74. Kisu’s thoughts:

    Madara is extremely weak compared to the level of ninjas we’re accustomed to now. Nagato only followed him because Akatsuki could help him achieve his goals, not because he was stronger. They even have different objectives. Nagato wants to force everyone to live peacefully through pain, while Madara wants to rule the world.

    Listen to what “just passing” is saying. Ignore the troll, it leaves.

    @envy, Kisu approves your messages :D . When I read your comments they sounded like something I’d type

  75. @Kigami.

    1. Konan lives in the Hidden RAIN village. Water is not a weakness. Pain even used a Water Jutsu on her from one of his summons and the only thing it did was wash off the oil, it had no adverse effects on her paper jutsus. And Jiraiya used a Katon against her, but she pushed back the Katon with her paper.

    2. Itachi (nor anyone else for that matter) was never shown to put genjutsu on more than one person at a time

  76. @ Kizu

    So what was Yagura at the time being controlled with?

    From what we seen you can’t genjustu a Jinchurikii. So how was Madara controlling Yagura who has the 3-tailed beast? From what was said he was able to control his beast as well as KB.

  77. Also you can’t just say since she’s from the Hidden RAIN Village that her powers aren’t going to be somewhat affected since it’s paper. We’ve seen her fight and YES she did have her Shikigami wet, but to what limit can she use her power when it’s wet? Is their a limit when it’s wet? Was it just luck that she fought an Fire Element user at the time and was able to adapt and fend them off?

    When Jiraiya used his Oil Justu against her paper. She became neutralized right? Pein came to her aid and washed it off. That means her paper is now wet. Water doesn’t mix with oil so why wouldn’t she be counter his Oil Justu now like she did with the Fire Element user?

    I see a limit. A limit to which her abilities can spread it’s wings. I know it’s not normal paper. But it’s still PAPER.

    What do you think?

  78. @ Envy

    What makes you even say such a bold claim about Hashirama not being the “most powerful hokage”? It’s palpable you don’t recognize the greatness of the 1st. Uchiha Madara was the most powerful ninja besides the Rikidou Sage and the 1st Hokage. Madara in his prime would beat Pain. I’m not going to rant how BADASS he is but he did beat Madara with an EMS and the 9-tailed fox which to me a is still a mountian the 4th couldn’t climb.

    The 4th beat Madara when he was a shell, but still lost to the 9-tails. 1st beat both by himself. I’m not going to downplay the 4th, but his greatest decision as a Hokage was putting the 9 tails in his boy and protecting his village for later on and even then Pain destroyed the village because of the 9 tails was there. The other Kages haven’t fought anyone worth mentioning. So they get no praise.

    So are you sure he’s not the “most powerful Hokage”?

  79. yes Kagami he is not the most powerful he is 3rd at best he beat Madara and he used his power to supress the 9 tails not defeat it he just held it down and it did nothing then he beat Madara

    I bet Nagato would cream Madara in his prime gedo mazo ends the fight

    Kishi said that the most powerful dead shinobi are Sarutobi and Minato who tie for number 1 meaning they are the most powerful hokages
    sarutobi managed to hold the 1st and 2nd hokages off in old age (although he could not beat them with out a suicide tech) so your wrong Kagami sorry but Madara and Harishima were not as strong as you thought (oh yeah and Pain at full power can beat the 9 tails with chibaku tensei)

  80. oh yeah Kagami
    Konan would have never learned paper jutsu if it was affected by the rain she trained in rain village lived their all her life and it always rains if it was affected by rain she would not have learned it at all bisides I saw her using it in the rain when training with jiraiya it did nothing so far oil is the only weakness

  81. @kisuzachi

    Actually, two people so far would be capable of genjutsu on multiple ninjas:

    Jiraiya in Sage Mode with Ma & Pa Toad (ok so they are the ones doing the genjutsu), and it was cast on 3 of Pain’s bodies at once. You can’t argue that Nagato was under genjutsu and thus it was just one being under genjutsu because Nagato was still able to control the other 3 bodies just fine.

    Tayuya (is that spelled right?) from the Sound Four, with her sound based genjutsu. So I think any sound genjutsu could easily work on a large number of ninjas (it is probably more difficult to produce however).

    Most likely sight based genjutsus and all the other senses would not be as easily cast on multiple people, so Itachi would have to cast two genjutsus quickly. The best option probably would be to use a Tsukyomi, since Itachi’s were so strong, and follow that up with a regular genjutsu on Samehada.

  82. Oh yeah!!!! And don’t forget Kabuto’s genjutsu that was cast on EVERYONE at the Chuunin exam. Granted, it wasn’t very high level and Sakura could deflect, but it was cast on a large number of people.

    Not sure what sense that one works under though, anyone know?

  83. @ Envy

    Are you really trying to convey that Hashirama and Tobi is no better then the 3rd Hokage Sarutobi?! That’s ridiculous. The only reason Sarutobi would be considered the best if for the fact he never lost. To anyone. The people he fought weren’t even enough to talk about. To me he’s well deserved the “Overrated Kage.” When the 3rd fought the 1st and 2nd they were mere puppets with no strategic or analytical ability. They were just fighting. You really think they would have lost to an 86 yr. old Kage.

    As for the whole fight with Madara and the 9 tails. Do you really have to give Minato an excuse for why he couldn’t beat the fox? Come on. Let’s be honest with ourselves. Minato and Sarutobi both with help from the whole village couldn’t beat a FORMER shell of Madara with a REGULAR Sharigan with the 9 tails by his side. Hashirama took on the best living Uchiha in his prime with an EMS with also the full powered 9 tailed fox and WON.

    Also Pain versus Madara in his prime. Is a bad match up why? Madara is more experienced fighter and a better Ninja then Hanzo who escaped I believe from that attack with ease. Amaterusu to pain since he doesn’t move fast and it’s over. BAM!

  84. Okay, I’ve kinda skimmed through the other comments but here’s what I think, I agree with Kisu on the fact that the rain probably won’t affect her paper jutsu because she lived in the Rain village all her life, she must have figured out some sort of way to use it in the rain/water. I also agree that Madara isn’t too strong right now in the battle sense because if he was he would have been showed us but he may surprise me.

    I have to say that since Konan was an Akatsuki and obviously Nagato thought she was strong enough to Jiraiya because he told her to kill Jiraiya if she wanted to, but he got there and took over. What I’m trying to say Konan could be one of the strongest fighter.

  85. Konan actually is a very good fighter. Well above everything else the rain does count as a factor to limiting her. If no contact has been made with her Justu that involves water, she is a very dangerous fighter. Her power would boost by 2 or maybe even 3.

  86. Also, I don’t know if anyone said this yet but there is more to paper in the Naruto world, Maybe she has a lot of that chakra paper that tells a shinobi what kind of elemental chakra they have, she could use that and turn it against her opponent or even manipulate every element.

  87. I’m going to use Konan in my fan fic, I think Konan is one of my favorite female characters, next to Sakura and Hinata.

    @ Kigami, Thanks for the compliment, I hope you continue reading and commenting.

  88. @kigami u can say what u want about the 1st hokage but the author himself stated that the 3rd and 4th were tied for the strongest of the dead ninja and that included the the 1st hokage. If the author himself states that than u have no evidence or facts to support your statement that the 1st was stronger. Kishi said the 3rd and 4th were tied for 1st of dead ninja. case closed

  89. o and kigami btw although madara may have been a shell he didnot have the space time jutsu when he faced off against the 1st.

  90. @Token

    So are you making another excuse for the 4th not being able to handle the present Madara and the 9 tailed Fox?

    Kishi may have said it, but I do have evidence and the evidence clearly speaks louder then words.

    @ YellowFlash2

    Keep doing your thing man. Great fight though.

  91. @token

    I totally agree with you. Whatever Kishi says is the truth.

    About Konan in the rain:

    You could say that oil affects her paper jutsus because the oil causes the paper to stick together. Why water doesn’t do that… well perhaps it’s because she is actually made of waxed paper?!? (which of course is water proof).

    I don’t think she’d be dumb and hang out in a place where her jutsus were useless, it would be like Kisame moving to Sunagakure.

  92. @Ripcord

    It would be dumb for Kisame to move to Suna, but what if he did and he was just as strong as he is now. Same analogy with Konan. It would make that person even stronger since they are always in a scenario or environment that goes against them. I’m saying she would be stronger. She’s not weak at all.

    Also if Kishi said well the 1st and 3rd are the best dead ninja’s in the Naruverse. Then what is The Rikudou Sage? The 3rd strongest. Kishi may say a lot of things. But if the Sage is 3rd compared to those guys then even Kishi contradicts himself.

  93. 4th***

  94. I hate to say this because Minato is my favorite character but Kagami is right! I don’t know why people don’t give Hashirama more credit, I remember people saying that he wasn’t that strong because in those days what they called strong is average to ninja like today, I think that crap because Hashirama beat Madara Uchiha who had the EMS and the Kyuubi all by himself and today no one can even touch him.

    The only thing is I believe Minato had surpassed Hashirama based on the fact that Kishi said himself that Minato was the strongest ninja that’s dead right now and the truth is we only seen a small amount of what Minato could really do. Also, people might say he now has space/time ninjutsu and able to control the Kyuub and all the other stuff but what makes you think he didn’t already have these abilities.

  95. In the Second Naruto Fanfook, it is stated that Sarutobi in his youth could confront all of Konoha’s jutsu and even EMS. So, if he’s tied with Minato as the strongest among the dead, Sarutobi and Minato are stronger than Hashirama. Let alone that theory,” the next generation will always surpass the previous one”.

    Also, Madara hadn’t his S/T jutsu back then, so we can’t know what would have happen, if he had. And of course we can’t know for sure if the current Tobi is that ancient Madara to make all these comparisons. Sage of Six Paths is another story, though, I think we must learn more about him (we have not even see his face), to say anything else.

  96. @ripcord, I’d say Kabuto’s jutsu was visual. It seems i completely forgot about those sound-based genjutsu though.

    @Kigami, sorry but your points have started a debate in which you cannot win. But before I get to that, oil is Konan’s only weakness. Rain has never affected her in all of her appearances. Assuming she’s weakened by the water is completely wrong. Anyway, unto Madara:

    1. Madara in his prime didn’t look even 30, so Pain would have more experience than him. To add, he lost to Hashirama (who is weak) handily, so he would stand no chance against Nagato’s overwhelming power.

    2. Madara a better ninja than Hanzo? Depends on your definition of better. Hanzo was powerful enough to beat the three Sanin and make Danzo go into a deal with him. Danzo’s the kinda guy to just kill everyone.

    3. Kishi said Madara did NOT have his space-time jutsu when he fought Hashirama and that Sarutobi and Minato are the strongest of the dead shinobi. Also, the Sage of Six Paths can’t even be considered a shinobi. He’s the father of jutsus, but he was never called a Shinobi.

    Why Hashirama is weak:

    1. He just makes big trees and tries to smash his opponent with them (look at his fight with Hiruzen), and is not as clever at using the Mokuton as Yamato is.

    2. Hashirama was killed several times by Hiruzen even though he was tag-teaming with his little brother. And don’t say they were puppets because it doesn’t matter. They were clearly smart enough to dodge and use their jutsus. The only thing they lacked was the ability to talk. That was their full power and they were beaten over and over by a 69 year old man.

    3. Hashirama was only considered powerful because he had a special ability that let him control Biju. so its not his power that was feared, it was the bijus he controlled. Hashirama is overrated. The fact that Madara lost to him also proves Madara is equally as weak.

    Another thing, the EMS is just an eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and we don’t know if it gives special powers, so simply saying Madara was strong simply because he had the EMS is wrong. In fact, it doesn’t matter because the manga once again confirmed the Rinnegan as the most powerful dojutsu.

    I reiterate, Hashirama was weak. He was powerful only because he could control Bijus. Get him in a back alley by himself and he’s dead.

  97. Y’know, now that “Madara” is talking about getting the Rinnengan too, I remembered back when Kabuto summoned all of those corpses and the last one remained a mystery…I think THAT one was the actual Madara, and “Madara” didn’t want his secret being reveleaed. Or something.

  98. Lol at kisu I do agree that hashirama might be overrated to a Point but any man that can take down the ems isn’t weak Itachi for example doesn’t have time space jutsu but he wasn’t no slouch

  99. @ Kisu

    Are you really going to downplay and talk as if this man Madara who is currently schooling everyone in the show so far is a weakling? Hashirama is now a man that can only use his unique wood style to make big trees and supress Bijuu’s and that’s it? You are badly mistaken.

    This so called ” Generation passes the next” is total BS. The only person to surpass the last generation over and over again is none other then NARUTO with the help of the Kyuubi. I do agree with you that Madara didn’t have the S/T Justu but if he did against the 1st would it have made a difference? A man with the best analytical skills, youngest to ever be hokage, and had S/T Justu himself couldn’t beat this so called “weakling” and his result is he DIED and so did his wife. He died against a man who had his EMS ripped away, his techniques destroyed, and is currently in a debilitated state. So why did the 4th lose to someone who is so weak? To me there’s a lot of excuses to say this man is actually better then everyone.

    Also Pein in no way, shape, or form has more battle experience. He fought Hanzo and that’s it from what we know. Hashirama was always in war and fighting the greatest ninja clans all the time. Their time was no were weak and if so does that mean the Tsuchikage was weak? A’s dad is weak?

    Also Sarutobi might be able to fend off everyone in the village, but has he ever fought anyone besides DANZO who Sasuke with an regular MS beat? That wasn’t fully mastered and with Danzo completely covered in Sharigan’s which he used and mastered with DNA from Hashirama?

    So don’t compare Yamato to him it’s embarrassing. Yamato is like 2% of the man he’s not.

    Also another thing. If Naruto is getting stronger and is looking almost unbeatable right now. Why did Sasuke just get the EMS? To be equal with Naruto’s strength that’s why. There’s no way the EMS is a regular MS with the same abilities. He going to power boost 10x if anything.

  100. Sorry for the long post. :) lol

  101. Sorry envy little late….just shortly over read comments sorry if that what I say is already mentionend

    Those who say Hashirama is weak….just let us wait till a flashback of his fight appear than we could judge how powerful he really is….common 1st hokage a weakling….

    It is true that the 4th defeat madara but he wasnt able to destroy him, same as 1st…..and so far I read (over read) nobody mentionend that since the last big fight with the 4th……16 years has past…..there must be some improvement

  102. 1st and 2nd were nothing but puppets that were just lashing out. Where was Hashirama’s darkness techinque? Where was Tobi’s S/T Justu that he knows. They were limited. Like I said earlier. That wasn’t a real fight. 3rd was great, but not legendary.

  103. It would be interesting if Bob could make a poll like last time, but this time a ranking rather than a tourment

  104. @Excel

    How could Sarutobi confront an EMS or an MS since no one had at the time obtained it? He never went against it. So now we can just say people can beat it, just because they can? That’s BS also. Sorry.

  105. time to be a middle Man
    I agree with you Kigami about the 1st and 2nd being weaker in their fight with sarutobi because they could not think and make battle plans

    I think Kisu downplayed the 1st a lot as well but he is still weaker then the 3rd and 4th his power to control Bijuu took the Kyuubi out of the fight he did not fight the thing

    Kagami why are you saying Madara beat Minato last time I cheaked Minato beat him easily ruined all of his plans and freed the Kyubi from his control (the Kyubi was more dangerus when freed from Madara anyway as it saw through Minato’s plan and tried to kill naruto resulting in both Minato’s death and Kushina’s death instead of one of them if Madara still had Kyuubi control it would not have seen through that)

    over all Madara is weak now

    also Pain was said to have never lost a fight and Madara said he was invincible

    honestly Gedo Mazo Chibaku tensei or shinra tensei would end it
    if Prime Madara tried to use ameratsu Nagato uses his adsorbing tech Madara wasted half his chakra and would get shinra tenseied

    Madara wont beat Konan unless Kabuto gave him back up because she is an awful match up for him

  106. oh yeah ultimate Madara is over a hundred years old I doubt he could improve any more

    of the three real fights Madara has been in he lost two and lost an arm in two having only beaten two jonin (who are probley still alive) and getting his arm taken off in the prosses

  107. i wouldn’t count konan out. konan is now one of the good guys (well girls). maybe someone will intervene. its too soon for madara to get nagatos eyes.

    if hashirama is so weak and all he can do is make trees, then why is his dna so sought after? oro tried to clone him with yamato as the result. danzo took his arm…. he doesn’t sound so powerful to me. :) lol. really though when naruto goes into his new sage mode the trees shifted etc, does that mean the wood element is one of the strongest closest elemental links to the senju body?

  108. Hey guys u are still talking about shits all the time who is the strongest shinobi? Why u are using for measuring just pure power and ultimate ninja techniques. Part of your strenght is also inteligence, which should be more powerful than pure imba owning techniques[ Shikamaru and Akatsuki immortal guy he was beaten by Shika just using inteligence]. We can measure shinobi also by inteligence then :
    Tobi/Madara killed or tricked:
    4th using Kyubii like a puppet, 6th using Sasuke like a puppet, sending Pein into dead mission he was killed by Naruto whatever and overusing of his techniques etc. So who is the strongest shinobi? I think shinobi who is still alive and succesfully completed his plans by using tricks and lies and let other people die for him then he can succesfully end his Moon Eye’s plan or whatever he wants.

    Brutal strenght, chakra reserves and ultimate techniques are not everything.

  109. I think its unfair to state that the 1st and 2nd are weak just by showing the fight with the 3rd! Reason being is because i think the hosts bodies where not there own so it would suggest that there chakra and stamina where not as good as they could be if where alive.

    the 1st is not just a ground and pound when it comes to his mokuton jutsu. He created and landscaped the whole of Konoha to my knowledge so to have that amount of power to create a whole landscape is pretty impressive! We have not seen him fight many times so its unfair to suggest yamato more creative as Yamato has had more fights we’ve seen to show his prowess. Yamato did state that he is dwarfed in comparison to hashirama’s Mokuton abilities. We dont even know if he has any other abilities as well! obviously he can contorl bijuu’s which is amazing though.

    the 2nd knew impure world Resurrection and also knew space time jutsu’s So in that respect we didnt see any of that at all! he also was the best Water jutsu expert and we didnt get to see hardly any of his jutsu’s

  110. @envy

    I guess we have to wait for another 2 or 3 chapters and see if he has improved or hide his other jutsus because he cant defeat Konan by warping

  111. Since mokuton is a combination of water and earth I guess the 1st mastered this elements too

  112. Naruto to my knowledge with the exception of the Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique from pain is the only person now alive that has life chakra to give. So to that effect he could make some pretty amazing techniques with it. one being he could mould trees to his will possibly. not to the extent of Hashirama i would of thought but it will be used rather well sometime in the not to distant future i hope he he. :P

  113. As far as i know right Nagato could use any all of the 5 elements but do you think he could use kekkei genkai abilities too? I would like to think he could do but am not quite sure and obviously we wont know now but he didn’t use them whilst fighting.

  114. we will see what he can do when Kabuto resurect him

  115. @LordEkran

    It was never stated that Danzo was the Rokudaime, he was selected as the top candidate and the Jounin had to vote still.

    Kakakshi also almost became the Rokudaime, but Tsunade woke up. This tells me that Naruto is meant to be the top candidate for the 6th Hokage, even if he doesn’t live to become it. Sometimes I think it will end up being Konohamaru… but I want Naruto to live!!!!

  116. hmm, seems many of you don’t want to listen to reason.

    All Hashirama can do is make big trees. In his fight with Sarutobi that’s all he did. Yamato might not have as much brute force as the first, but he’s shown to be far more versatile with it.

    Also, as time goes on humans evolve. We invent new things, new concepts etc. Its the same with the Naruniverse. Did you see the big clunky armor ninjas used to wear? Compare those with what they wear today. Also, the clans would have been comparatively weaker than those today.

    1. You’re chances of dying then were much higher, which means most didn’t live to see their full potential realized

    2. With you’re clansmen at war constantly, you’ll have to learn whatever you can on your own.

    3. There was no ninja Academy back then.

    4. Kishi says it over and over again, old generation will be surpassed by the new. Saying that is a lie is essentially saying Kishi’s wrong. Its his story so he CAN’T be wrong.

    Now lets see:

    1. Nagato was taught by Jiraiya, the strongest of the Sanin and easily on of Konoha’s best ninjas ever. Nagato mastered every technique taught to him

    2. According to the Third Databook, Nagato’s hobby was learning new jutsus

    3. Nagato grew up in a battlefield. He grew up in a war orchestrated by Three-Four of the world’s Superpowers. Hashirama just had little skirmishes because I doubt clans had hundreds of highly trained ninja to throw into war.

    4. Nagato actually WANTED to face the Kyubi to test out its power.

    5. Hashirama created Konoha with his Mokuton. Nagato blew Konoha away in seconds.

    6. Nagato wiped out two armies on his own (Hanzo’s and Danzo’s)

    7. Nagato not only killed the man that made the Sanin look like amateurs, but he also wiped out his entire faction, family and friends.

    Now all of this affects Madara’s standing as well. Tobi believed Nagato was invincible (and if he was Madara, then he’s basically saying Nagato is stronger than he was because he wasn’t invincible as he lost to Hashirama). Konan said Nagato never lost a battle (and he never did, well, he lost in a battle of philosophies). Kishi said the Third could counter the EMS and has said several times that the Rinnegan is the most powerful dojutsu, so Nagato can counter the EMs as well because the Rinnegan lets its wielder learn any jutsu.

    Btw, this is a really generic response because I didn’t bother reading all the comments. My intuition however tells me that these are the appropriate responses. To add more insult, whenever Hashirama can create a tree big enough to make mountains look like pebbles, then he can talk to Nagato.

  117. As far as Edo Tensei goes, it revives a person at full capacity. The manga has never stated otherwise. Saying the First wasn’t at full power is speculation to the highest degree. The only thing he and his brother couldn’t do is talk. They were clearly in control enough to dodge attacks thrown at them and the only time the Third hit them was when he outmaneuvered them, and all of the Thirds hits were kill moves. If not for Edo Tensei’s power they would have looked even weaker.

  118. Just read 408, Im alwayz late when et comes to reading da magnum, is it me or did Kisame look supe huge when he died, maybe I’m just high n everything movin really slow for me, Man what’s happening to Sauske mn he was killing every1 fam, Kishi needs 2 bring him back cuz he better than Naurto. Yep he got to come back, who agrree?

  119. @kisuzachi

    One thing about the fight with Sarutobi, he barely survived the Forest Genesis, thanks to his staff, Enma. Without Enma, Sarutobi would have been crushed. I say this because most other shinobi don’t have that counter, so it probably would be an instant death for a lot of ninjas.

    That isn’t to say that someone with superb reaction abilities and good eyes, like Madara, would be able to avoid those kinds of attacks.

    While it may be true that Hashirama was not as “creative” his wood is actually stronger, BECAUSE it is living. If you try to break a live twig you can’t, but once it is dead, you can snap it. So, I would say that Hashirama has more raw power with his wood element, but Yamato has overcome that by being more creative in how he uses it. Also, I would argue, based on limited information, that Hashirama was able to create a larger quantity of wood (larger chakra reserves perhaps) than Yamato and also he was able to create a given quantity of wood FASTER than Yamato.

  120. @ Kisu

    You really can’t seem to grasp or comprehend that every Anime and manga contradicts itself. Author can make mistakes. Kishi is capable of making mistakes and saying irrational claims even though it’s his show.

    To comment on the only thing that really stood out from you post is “Hashirama used his Mokoton to create the village, But Pein blow it up in seconds.” In anything, it’s always easier to DESTROY something then to CREATE. So what are you saying? Same analogy with a Jenga. You can build it and it would take time, but if someone pushed the whole thing over it would crumble in a second.

    Also when Nagato killed Hanzo he didn’t confront the village himself. He used his 6 separate bodies to destroy his village, friends, and family. Nagato even though at the time destroyed Hanzo and Danzo’s armies at the time of Yahiko’s death. Hanzo still confronted this “unstoppable” soul ripping drangon to it’s face and didn’t DIE. Nagato had to come up with a plan and it was he hide himself far away and have his puppets destroy him. A 1 on 1 fight and Hanzo would have ended it. Even though that’s a bold claim.

    And again Edo Tensei does give the body everything the user previously had but like I said not everything is giving to them. They had no analytical ability, they weren’t sentient beings, they didn’t use strategic methods, and were just fighting.

    Nagato is nothing compared to the Sage. I sense your somewhat bias and you have favorites. Hashirama or Tobi isn’t my favorite but they are well deserved of respect and should be acknowledged for their wins and accomplishments. I believe the 3rd and 4th actually took on the 9 tails and took on a “former” shell of Madara and lost in my opinion. Madara may have lost, but at the end of the day he had them killed and he did what he wanted and is still alive raising people like Kisame. Haha

  121. Oh, and LordEkran and Mattmaru you have some good points I didn’t point out.

    Anyone know how I can obtain an ICON!

    I NEED ONE! hah. Nah, I just want one. I feel too “noobish” if that’s word.

  122. Oh, and LordEkran and Mattmaru you have some good points I didn’t point out.

    I NEED ONE! hah. Nah, I just want one. I feel too “noobish” if that’s word.

  123. @kigami…THANK U SOO MUCH HONESTLY, ur comment was unbias and true, the young man i don’t know his name and i don’t care to look, makes comments and really thinks his OPINIONS are the truth. i don’t care if the 1st could make trees, u don’t get the name hokage just because u can control tailed beast. and he did build konoha, and he did defeat the original madara. i don’t care if sarutobi did beat the 1st and 2nd zombie hokages, u have to give the founder of konoha credit, he was such a bad ass in his day that all of the clans formed a truce and made the strongest village in the fire country, under him. I’m not knocking any of the hokages, because they all have their strengths and weaknesses, but they are what the village needs at the time, and if u want to judge on the “who’s the weakest scale” then tsunade is the weakest in my opinion, as far as ninjutsu, but she is strong in her healing ability and brute strength. I am not going by some fanbook, cause any dork can say “well, lets but let’s say naruto, ninjutsu’4 taijutsu4.4 genjutsu 1 and intellegence 3″ and u see i wouldn’t agree with that, i judge by what i see in the manga and anime. yeah naruto isn’t as smart as shikamaru or kakashi, but he has to be something the way he demolishes his opponents, especially the unbeatable pein. and he beat pein single handed.
    to me madara is the weakest and sneakiest shinobi, he’s a coward, some might not agree with me and may argue that those qualities are what make a shinobi, but he running his organization off the strength of its members, and they are decreasing rapidly, at the rate he is going, kabuto will eventually take over akatsuki.
    sorry for ranting and thanks to whoever read this, but like i said, thanks kigami for ur unbias comment, damn the rating books…lol

  124. Wow justpassing:

    Ever heard of a paragraph?

    I agree with you though that it all depends on what people value as the best kind of shinobi. Clearly, the Raikage does not agree with Naruto’s path of the ninja, yet that way of thinking probably helped Kumogakure survive for a long time.

    As far as icons go, kigami: you have to use gravitars.com and make one there. I forget how to link it to wordpress though.

  125. I meant to say GRAVITAR.com (no S)

  126. @ripcord
    sorry dude i don’t paragraph a rant…lol
    i think that the cloud village is a little power hungry, first with kushina, and then with hinata, something doesn’t seem right about that village, and i think it was a bad idea for naruto to go into their lands, u know besides getting a hella power up. but man when i rant, i rant sorry lol.

  127. @just passing

    It was a succulent rant though. :)

    @Ripcord

    I went to gravitar.com and basically found numerous websites. If it’s that tough to get one. Hell, praise the NOOB! Haha.

    Anyway back to the discussion. I agree with you just passing on how a fanbook can be wrong. It’s possible. Like it was possible for the almighty rinnegan to get beat by a 15 or 16 yr old. kid with power moves and no sense of analytical breakdown ability. I do believe Pein is better then Naruto especially if he was blood lusted but hey. I guess that’s what we call “Plot no Justu.” Haha. I hate Naruto sometimes, but damn what an amazing anime.

  128. Yea, this anime is rly good :D . Somone there had a good point that even Kishi made mistakes ( not mistakes, but once he stated something and then he just changed, because maybe when 3rd was fighting 1st and 2nd Kishi wasn´t thinking about what will happen like 300 chapters after/

    Like that thing with ms he stated that only by killing best friend u can obtain it, but Itachi just passed it to Sasuke or Kakashi obtained MS also but different he invented something similar to Tobi’s even if he didn’t kill friend.

    So, Kishi is human like us and he is changing thing by every next chapter and that is good because world is still changing, so we’re just talking about nothing more than our thoughts about how Kishi think.

    Anyway, interesting discussion :D , just don’t like that shit about shinobis strenght and

    @kisu u said that kishi stated that every next generation will surpass the previous one. NOT TRUE NOONE STILL SURPASS RIKUDO SAGE :D , so as I mentioned before change is the way how kishi is making manga, maybe because of that is still interesting to read it.

  129. @LordEcran

    Actually, Naruto will be the only one to surpass the Rikudo Sage:

    The Sage seeked peace in the world so he created ninjutsu as a religion. Naruto will take that and actually make the peace the Sage seeked.

  130. Can’t say Naruto will. He’s looking to kill himself with Sasuke.

  131. @kigami

    Well, if he does, then that’s how he’ll do it. It has already been outlined:

    Naruto is the chosen one who will start a revolution in the ninja world. I guess that doesn’t necessarily mean he will end that revolution too, although if you say “bring about a revolution” then he could still do it.

    I still don’t think he will die fighting Sasuke, even if Naruto accomplishes everything he hopes for, that is too bitter a pill to swallow. If it does happen… well that is SO cliche, the hero dying to save everyone else. I don’t understand why the hero can’t live, even for a little while, to see the world he/she saved.

  132. Plus, if you consider, Naruto has changed so many hearts throughout the manga:

    Zabuza, Tazuna and Inari, Neji, Gaara, Chiyo, Sai, Nagato and Konan, the ENTIRE rest of the population of Konoha (especially Ebisu)

    Now, Naruto is poised to change the hearts and minds of people even higher up, like the Kages (although he already has Gaara in his corner).

    The manga has been cultivating Naruto for this role, the role of being a revolutionary, it won’t end without Jiraiya’s dream, Nagato’s dream, Minato’s dream, the Sage Six Path’s dream, and the dream of so many others actually coming true because of the actions of our Orange Knuckleheaded Most Unpredictable Ninja.

  133. That I do believe. Honestly, I see the anime kind of ending with Madara or whoever is behind the mask actually accomplishing his goals except for his Moon Eye Plan. I think he will become the 10 Tailed Jinchurikii and Naruto with Sasuke’s help will fight him. In the battle Sasuke will die since he’s done too many evil things or what we consider evil and Naruto will give the final blow with the last bit of his chakra and supress the Jubii forever. But, hey hah I’m way off most likely.

  134. I am a Sasuke Fan. :)

  135. Kigami I agree with you about the first he was a beast but he is still only the 3rd strongest hokage

    about Nagato vs Hanzo
    Hanzo did not stand up to gedo Mazo he used body flicker (the jutsu Naruto used to hit Kisame) and bolted
    He ran if he had stayed and fought he would have died

  136. “I am a Sasuke fan :)

    You’re dead to me before I even got to know you :(

    @Kigami waaaay above, need I remind you thjat the Six Paths of Pain is a jutsu? Would you say Sasori is a coward for using puppets, or Jiraiya for using summons? Another thing, Nagato is the 7th Path and can use the abilities of all the other Paths, plus his elemental techniques, plus his own Path techniques. Splitting his power into six actually makes Nagato a safer opponent than when he was well. Imagine a ninja that could pull you to him against your will then forcefully rip your soul out of your body.

    I have nothing against Hashirama or Madara. What I have a problem with is the fandom that makes Hahirama out to be stronger than he actually was/is. So once again (for the third time) I reiterate, Edo Tensei summons have all their abilities until proven otherwise. If you have enough cognitive abilities to dodge, respond to moves, use your own learned abilities, and co-ordinate attacks with a partner while not hurting that partner, then your not a zombie.

    Also, Kishi is human, but when it comes to HIS manga, he is God. If he says Nagato is weaker than Sakura, then Nagato is weaker than Sakura. If he later contradicts this statement, then we have to go with the most recent thing he said.

    @just passing, I present opinions as facts? The thing is, whenever I say something, I usually have manga evidence to back up my claims. I say Nagato’s powerful, there are lots and lots of chapters to back up my claim. I say Hashirama was weak compared to today’s ninjas, there is evidence to support this as well. If I didn’t have evidence then I wouldn’t say a thing. This is the main reason I don’t think up theories/predictions.

    In addition, its wrong to compare the Fourth’s battle with the one Hashirama had. Hashirama didn’t have to deal with the most hax jutsu Kishi ever invented (Madara’s space-time watcha-ma-callit). That jutsu alone can turn the tide of a battle. (All indications point to) His fight with Hashirama was just brute force vs brute force.

    Kisu approves of this message.

  137. thanks kisu for the map, so I assume they must be on some large lake or river

  138. @Nemo I agree with what you say about Madara pulling the rinnegan from a resurrected Nagato.

    sorry for the late reply Nemo and Kisu

  139. I agree with kisu about pein an honestly madara tobi whatever he is has to be one of the lamest ninja ever being able to spam a t/s jutsu that don’t require seals hand signs anything just don’t seem right he’s able to replace his arm that seems to get took off every battle he was able to keep from getting consumed from itachis black flames madara is just so lame

  140. Yeah, actually if you look at the one panel from the fight at the Valley at the End, it looks like a brute force battle, ESPECIALLY by the look on Madara’s face. I forget the chapter, and it is too late to look it up, but it was shown while Sasuke was held captive by Tobi.

  141. @Kigami
    I’m a Sasuke fan too!! He’s the King of this series IMO :)

  142. @ kisu, sure kishi is the creator of naruto and it is his manga, but god, come on man.
    kishi created a universe with characters that we read and have come to love. so we know the characters as somewhat a part of us. listen to me, kishi is responsible for maintaining the narutoverse so he has to somewhat balance all of the characters and give their strengths and weaknesses. and hey that works. what i am trying to say is this i don’t care if u have the manga right in ur lap as u type ur comments. u are gonna be bias, everyone has a favorite character from the manga and would if they could make everyone see why their character is the best with the least amount of flaws.
    me kakashi is my favorite character. and from facts i know that he has an assload of jutsus but very little chakra reserves. so i know there are things that he can and can’t do. in my mind he can’t lose a fight cause i know he has the sharingan and he knows how to use it. but in all honesty naruto could whip his ass. get what i am trying to say, for some reason u don’t care for the 1st hokage because u are comparing him with ur data books. but if u read into the manga, the 1st and madara were the strongest ninjas in their era, and they came together and made konoha. and yet even though u claim it was for the fear that he can control the beast, i don’t buy that. the man was respected then and even when madara was talking to sasuke about the 1st he stated how much he respected the man. look in the manga im not getting into a chapter war with u.
    without the 1st hokage there would be no nothing the clans would have fought each other out. he bought peace for the time being. and u wanna argue about the fight with sarutobi, i might give u that, but they were zombies, and if they were the real deal i dont’ think the 3rd would have come out on top like that. because we see time and time again what happens when a ninja puts his own nindo, his all into an attack. shit look at kisame, he woke himself up by bitting his fricking tongue off.
    and as far as u saying that the first is weak compared to todays ninjas, of course, i mean the take the moves that are already given to them and just improves on them, take rasengan and chidori, kids have different imaginations than adults, and i’m sure if u saw a jutsu u would be thinking in ur mind how u could make it better or how u could us it different. don’t knock the origins man, they wouldn’t be as strong as they are without the elders that put in the foot work. like goku and master roshi, it took 80yrs for roshi to invent the kamehameha and goku learned it after watching him perform it once and the next thing u know everyone was spamming that move.
    what it boils down to is this. kishi isn’t a god of the manga, he is at the mercy of the readers that buy his manga, so he can’t just come out of left field and give naruto a special kekkei genkai that makes him grow wings(LOL) there is a realm he has to stay in and fans he has to please. so naruto can be a 3 now and if the sales are down he might need to be boosted up to a 6 just so sasuke won’t seem as strong as the main character. which i think naruto’s rapid grow is a little unnerving, cause he still hasn’t played with element chakra and sage mode enough for me to want to see a giant leap into full kyuubi chakra controlling mode. let me get off, thanks for reading. u would do good in the theory section of this site if there is one.
    final thing, we all have a character that we favor over everyone else and like i said we know our characters strengths and weaknesses and overlook the characters that aren’t in ” our loop”

  143. I do like everyones opinions its good reading.

    right ok for me! I have only seen the 1st and 2nd have one fight! So i have not seen all of what they can do! right i just read a little interesting factoid about the Edo Tensei jutsu.

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Edo_Tensei

    See the true nature of Edo Tensei is a bit fluffy is it not? Because it states that you use chakra to summon the bodies! but does that mean they hold the users chakra? or do they have there very own chakra ? reading below about chakra states that all LIVING individuals produce chakra! so it would suggest that the vessels only have the summoners chakra! So i would think that at best they would of had 35% chakra. So there Restricted to what they can do and also have no free will. So for me there tactical prowess would not be on top notch.

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra

    @kisu what your saying nagato has all these amazing abilities is great an all but Naruto beat him! So really thats all in vain.

    Yes the next generation do grow up and surpass the ones that came before them but the first and 2nd are exceptions in my eyes! im not stating there the best im just stating they are exceptional ninjas which deserve the due respect. Stating there weak when there isn’t enough evidence to suggest that is a poor argument just off one fight.

  144. people here are underestimating sarutobi, he was one of the most powerful ever. also he was old.

    the thing about doujutsu is that they kinda cheat if u ask me… no need for strength or ninjutsu, all you have to do is activate an ability and that’s it, your opponent is dead. what would madara be if it wasn’t for his teleportation jutsu currently? what’s sasuke without genjutsu/amaterasu/susanoo/etc.? killerbee KICKED HIS ASS 2 TIMES in 1 session.

    the 1st probably had a ace card to play against the sharingan, that’s why he won. i would say if special abilities (and bloodline limits) moved aside, sarutobi and naruto (after more training) would be the strongest shinobi ever.

  145. “@kisu what your saying nagato has all these amazing abilities is great an all but Naruto beat him! So really thats all in vain.”

    Oh God not this again! I won’t even comment on that.

    Kisu away!

  146. http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-399/10-11/

    Here’s the big battle scene. If you consider that the fight between the two CREATED the Valley of the End, well then it must have been a fierce and powerful one. Only people on Jiraiya’s level are able to cause a change in the face of the earth. I think there’s a lot to learn from this scene.

    1.Hashirama is able to multitask here, growing his wood while using a summoning scroll. Obviously we didn’t see him multitask during the fight with Sarutobi.

    2. Madara most likely does not have his space-time jutsu here (if Tobi is even Madara). Hashirama is clearly keeping him at a distance with his mokuton and would be at a disadvantage if Madara were to quickly get close.

    Now, with the Edo Tensei bit, Orochimaru clearly had at least some control over what the two did, they weren’t just mindlessly fighting, the reason I know this, because they aren’t fighting here:

    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-122/02/

    They allowed the 3rd and Oro to talk, this must be because Oro is controlling them to stay still.

    However, if you look here:
    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-122/04/

    You see the Shiodame fill the barrier almost instantly with forest! Plus here:
    http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-122/14/

    He was capable of a powerful genjutsu. Granted, that would be useless against an Uchiha, but against others no doubt it would bring death.

    So, I would say that for those that doubt the strength of the 1st Hokage, you are clearly wrong. To also say that he was able to fight the way he normally would have while he was under Orochimaru’s control, that is also wrong. Sarutobi was old, as he even stated during that fight, and so you could say that none of those during that battle were using their best abilities. He survived and forced Orochimaru to retreat because Oro got cocky and let his guard down.

  147. Did anyone notice the scene during Kisame’s flashback where Itachi’s forehead protector didn’t have a slash through it? Tiny mistake by Kishimoto perhaps? ^^;

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/72932747/9

  148. @ripcord, it really isn’t hard to create a whole value if you’re controlling Bijus. My point is, get Hashirama alone and he’s done.

  149. oops, i meant “valley” not “value” -_-’

  150. Well, from the scene that we see, there are no other bijuu around, so I would guess that he didn’t need them. Besides, we’ve seen from Yamato’s jutsu, it is able to create a cliff and a waterfall.

    I always wondered though who made the statues… I kindof lean toward Hashirama himself making them:

    I believe that he still wanted to be friends with Madara, even to the end of their battle (just like Naruto with Sasuke) and so he constructed the reminder of their struggle.

  151. @kisu -
    ““I am a Sasuke fan :D
    “You’re dead to me before I even got to know you :( “”

    so am i dead to you kisu? lol

    btw, good eye there yuffie. i would at first think it was a mess up on kishi’s part, but if you look at the panel just before that, itachi does activate his MS. why would this be? maybe to express through genjutsu to kisame that in his heart, he doesn’t want to be the missing nin that the slash suggests. very very subtle suggestion there by kishi, but very important.

  152. @ssj, the fact that you’re a DBZ fan barely saves you :)

    Its funny though, when Kishi makes an error, its a subtle message, when Tite makes an error its trolling lol. Double standards ftw! :D

  153. @Ripcord

    You make a valid point. I agree with a lot you’ve said. Even though Sarutobi and Minato are beyond a regular Jounin. I love both those guys.

    @Yuffie

    That probably is a mistake or most likely Itachi psychologically didn’t cut all ties from the Village yet in his mind.

    @lilmoe

    Please don’t make excuses for Sarutobi not being able to have a doujustu. If your going to say doujustu’s are cheat then there would be no Pein or a ninja world. It’s part of their arsenal and life. So yeah. That’s a bad description of the definition of being strong.

    @mattmaru

    Hah, you’ve posted a lot of actual evidence that doesn’t come in words but in actions. I appreciate the time you’ve put in. You can’t believe Kishi’s “motto’s” sometimes because his ACTIONS speak otherwise.

    @Kisu

    Get Hashirama in a alley or valley by himself and most people would need back up or some sort of help. You assume this guy is weak consistently, but he was not the leader of the strongest clan of all time for nothing. Yamato creates a waterfall – Hashirama creates Niagara falls by using his finger. Realize the greatness Kisu.

  154. Y’know, Kishi has way too many powerhouse ninja. I mean, a fight can still be epic even if its Ino-level fighters. Just take a look at this video of two “ordinary” humans fighting and tell me if it isnt as epic, if not more epic, than a fight between overpowered ninjas/aliens/shinigami/saiyans/whatever else I can think of.

  155. Batman and Red Hood are ordinary humans. So umm… their fight is only epic in there world. Yamcha would destroy both these guys.

    Epic is when people with powers that go beyond human ability and when even their powers exceeds people with the same ability truly becomes epic. That’s why Hashirama vs Madara was so epic. So what are you trying to say besides everyone can have an “epic” fight in their own reality or dimension or whatever you would like to call it?

  156. I think what makes a fight most epic is not the power that the fighters have, but the passion between them. The fight of Hashirama & Madara was so huge because of their history, their friendship, the hatred, and the regret.

    The same will be said for Naruto vs. Sasuke in the future.

    I think the fight of Sakura vs. Ino was intense, but that was only because of the passions between the two were so great, certainly not because of the strength of their abilties.

    In the same token, I would say the fight between KB and Kisame was not epic at all, even though powerful techniques were used, it was kinda boring. That’s what I think anyway.

  157. I agree Ripcord.

  158. I agree with you Kisu and ripcord, yes it is the passion! My favourite fights are ones that have had history and passion built up and it all comes out in one epic moment! :)

  159. @ripcord, exactly. Two random characters fighting is kinda boring. Just look at Star Wars. The best fight in Star Wars was Obi-Wan vs Anakin in Episode 3.

    @Kigami, when characters get too powerful it can take away a lot from a fight, even if the build-up was there. I consider DBZ to be the best fictional story of all time, but in retrospect, they bad guys could’ve ended the fights extremely quickly by blowing the planet up. It’s also ridiculous that with all the strength they had after the Namek saga that they could fight on a planet without blowing it up with their attacks.

    (Vegeta at 18000 power level was going to blow up the Earth with his Galick gun, but after the Frieza Arc, both Goku and vegeta have power levels over 15000000 lol)

    On Hashirama, you’re not listening to reason so i see no need to continue that.

    @my comment up above about overpowered fights, I posted that because I was just browsing youtube and was left in awe at how awesome that fight was and neither character had super powers. It’s even more epic if you watch the entire movie (Under the Red Hood). It turns out Batman was fighting his one time protegé, Jason Todd, who was killed by the Joker and later revived. Batman blamed himself..blah blah blah…yadda yadda yadda. Check out the movie for yourselves :)

  160. @kisu – when do i ever bash tite’s error’s? and who says this one is kishi’s?

  161. About the error with the forehead protector:

    It isn’t the first time this has happened. I don’t know if someone other than Kishi fills in the forehead protectors for him or what, but if it is the same guy as before (I forget which chapter) he probably won’t be doing it for much longer.

  162. ssj, that makes much more sense. thanks! =D

    Konan sure seems pretty confident about facing Madara. I wonder why? =o What do you think is the source of her confidence? Also, let’s not forget Kisame’s shark who escaped carrying the scroll. I wonder if we will see that same shark reappear during the Madara vs Konan face-off…I mean they are surrounded by water so I could see the shark showing up somehow. It would be nice to see her intercept the information.

  163. @ssj, not you in particular :P

  164. u guys are taking shit to seriously…. i don’t recall insulting anyone.

    if u have an opinion say it. if u’re going to be an ass then suck it.

  165. yuffie. konan has to know something about madara you are right she does seem to be very confident. i really hope she doesn’t die it would be nice for naruto to have a alley.

  166. Konan should be show confidence when facing Madara. She knows his ability and her shikigama is actually.. perfect for it. Breaking yourself into a bunch of pieces and can attack from anywhere is what you need to beat Madara.

  167. The only thing I hope doesn’t happen is madara gettin the rinnengan other than that I hope he wipes the floor with konan its about timr the good ppl start dying lol

  168. @Minatofan, Konan hasn’t been on the good side for that long, it’s time for the good guys we known for a while to die.

  169. Anybody got s

  170. Here’s the short spoiler.

    Weeee, Konan really does great.
    She messes Madara up.

    You still can’t see his face.
    But about half of the mask has been destroyed.

    What you can see is a guy with short hair.
    He looks really young (I think/It seems)
    ————————————-

    Bridge to peace (trans: chapter title?)

    Madara asks Konan the reason for her betrayal. Is Naruto really worth it?
    Konan says Naruto is the light, the flower of hope for everyone.
    Konan is hostile towards Madara.
    Madara: Fighting with me wearing that cloak, does it mean you still can’t let go.
    Konan: Yahiko created the Akatsuki. The red clouds on this cloak are the symbol of the rain of blood that poured down in Amegakure during the war. Even if you had taken over the Akatsuki, this cloak still represents our justice. It’s not yours. The Rinnegan was activated by Nagato in Amegakure, it’s not yours either. His eyes are the precious asset of this country, of this village.

    Madara: It’s I who made Yahiko create the Akatsuki. It’s I who gave Rinnegan to Nagato. It’s only right that I take them back. All I have to do now is capture you.

    The fight begins.
    —————————————-
    konan tries to use exploding tags to attack madara.it’s a kind of jutsu that the user and the victim dies together.madara loses his right arm but manage to teleport the explosion away.some flashback of konan,yahiko and nagato.madara says tat madara gave nagato the rinnegan.(wTF?) and he told yahiko to create akatsuki(WTF.i have no idea.)

    konan says madara is the dark tat is why everyone stays away from him.the chapter ends with konan using a fuiin jutsu.
    ————————————
    she says konan is really strong.madara sucks.

    madara’s mask is broken in half.

  171. Thank you yellowflash2

  172. Good welcome Don’tJudgeMe.

    I really don’t think this fight is going to drag out too long, the conclusion may come next week. I can’t believe I’m about to say this but I kinda want to see Sasuke now.

  173. @yellowflash, TAKE THAT BACK! The last time someone wished to see Sasugay we were stuck in the Sasugay-a-thon :’(

    And also………….HA! TOLD YOU KONAN WAS BADASS!

  174. @yellowflash2

    I want to see Tobi’s face! It can’t be long now though, Kishi has hinted at it way too much.

    Personally, I feel like Kakashi deserves to be the one to unmask Tobi.

  175. Kisu what’s your beef with Sasuke? He’s the Vegeta of this series, and I thought you like Vegeta, He’s far better than Naruto, and the last of his clan, He’s a King!! Thanks for the half spoiler yellowflash2, I can’t wait until Sasuke comes back and defeat the 5 nations along side with Kabuto. I knew Konan strong ^-^

  176. Sasuke is such a spoiled brat.

  177. Wow, I just saw some scans and translations and Konan is hardcore, I knew she had what it took to badly damage Madara. That last jutsu she is trying to pull of is epic, even Madara seems to crap his pants. I can wait to read the full chapter. I knew Konan was strong.

  178. @Fleece, I love Vegeta. He’s the greatest fictional character o f all time and cannot be topped. And that’s why I hate Sasugay. I compare every Vegeta clone with the original and if they fll too much below, I simply ignore them. Sasuke is a failed Vegeta. Kishi admitted that he didn’t know how to make a rival, and amalgamated rivals from several series to make Sasugay.

    Kisu’s list of good vegetas:
    Kai (from beyblade)
    Heie (from Yuyu Hakusho)
    Seto Kaiba (from Yu-Gi-Oh)

    that’s just the short list. I could write every reason I hate Sasugay, but that’ll only distract us from the awesome that is Konan! I can’t wait for this week’s chapter! Jiraiya’s students are all hardcore…well except Minato’s teammates >_>

  179. @ripcord, How in the world is Sasuke a spoiled brat? His clan was wiped out and he had to fight for everything he got, he was the genius of his class. He killed more people than anyone the series. He learns quicker than anyone. I could go on & on. If you think about it there is NOBODY better than Sasuke. He’s been my favirote character since the start of the series

    @Kisu, yea you’re right, but you don’t have to put gay in his name, lol. I can’t wait for this chapter aswell. Konan is gonna shut all her haterz up who said she couldn’t stand a chance

  180. @ Kisu, yeah I probably shouldn’t have said that.LOL

    And Konan is kicking ass, I knew she was part of Akatsuki but didn’t think she was this strong, I just thought Nagato and Yahiko kept her alive and just took her along the way because she was a good close friend. Konan looks like she was on their level the whole time.

    Madara actually looks surprise or maybe he’s just faking, you never know. I just don’t want him to kill her, I want her to become the leader of Amegakure and be a great ally to Naruto in the future.

  181. The last jutsu she is doing is epic, the spoilers said the rain and water in that they are fighting in, the entire lake or sea is actually her paper and she is going to try and seal him inside her paper technique.

    So if she is able to use this much paper, she must have huge chakra reserves, and for to make them look real it amazing! I am definitely going to put her in my fan fic! I think Konan is one of my new favorite characters!

  182. Spoiler Pics!

    http://hitsuke.blogspot.com/2010/09/naruto-509-spoilers-raw-and-summaries.html

    lol let the Obito = tobi theories begin again!

  183. u know y sasuke ua a spoiled brat? cause all hus most powerful moves were GIVEN to him. amaterasu susanno given to him. kakashi took him aside persinally and taught him chidori, oro gave him the curse seal, he used oros power and summon for a bit and he whine about losing his family and clan… hello naruto was without parents as wrll and aldo never had a sibling. itachi is a strong reason y sasuke didnt die to the raikage thats y i hate sasuke.

  184. If Sasuke is a spoiled brat, than that makes Naruto a retard. No offense but Naruto is a very SLOW learner. How long was Jiraiya teaching Naruto Rasengan??? Exactly. I agree amaterasu & susanno was given to him, but c’mon you have to tell yourself, Did he ask for them? No. So he isn’t a brat. He didn’t ask for Orochimaru’s curse either. Sasuke is the best in this series and you know it. The Raikage is 58 years old, Sasuke is not even 18 yet and he can hang with the best of them. Sasuke doesn’t need a group to defeat one person like Naruto does. I hope Madara brings Sasuke back so he can shut the haters up

  185. Thanks for the spoiler pics Kisu, this chapter is looking epic beyond belief, Lol @ the people who doubted Konan, just imagine what she would have done to Jiraiya

  186. Naruto has had 2 learn some of the hardest jutsus around! Sage mode has been obtained by what 3 people? Rasengan took years to complete and not only did he do it he made it BETTER. and actually he in a way accepted the curse seal cause he didn’t have to use it. He did and also ran to oro for more power. And as for the raikage he was wiping the floor with sasuke and not only that killerbee gave sasuke a otherwise killing or fatal blow twice! If not for his group he would be dead. The best in this series outside the sage is pein,minato,itachi or the first. Sasuke doesn’t come close to cracking the top 5. O and what makes sasuke dangerous? His gift of susanno And amatetsu.

  187. I bet Neji could become a sage if he wanted to, The Hyuuga clan hobbies is meditation. Obatianing Sage Mode isn’t all that great. Sage Mode is a cheat IMO and it’s very corny, gathering energy from nature? Unlike Naruto, Sasuke get’s his energy from within. Sasuke is cocky and will fight anyone, Naruto is to busy trying to be friends with every person he meets, and again you do realize Killer Bee and The Raikage are more experienced? When Sasuke returns with EMS he’s gonna make alot of people look stupid. The war hasn’t began yet, and all those people you named are DEAD and GONE. I’m talking about right now. Sasuke is better than Everyone. Let’s drop this debate until he returns okay, don’t go switching sides when he returns and kills Kakashi

  188. @Rinnegan Invasion
    Trolling much? hahaha.
    @Fleece Johnson
    How is Sage Mode corny? You have to actually have skill to achieve Sage Mode and large chakra reserves. It is way better that pulling random power ups out of nowhere. Even Vegeta, a genius in battle, trained when he wanted to reach a new level. At best Sasuke is going to be cheap copy of Itachi or Madara, at best.

  189. I wanna put my two cents in on this.

    About this Naruto and Sasuke team thing. Both had to have a team to fight some of the strongest characters in the manga. Sasuke needed Snake/Hawk to fight Killer Bee AND the Raikage. He did not beat Itachi, he did not be Deidara. He killed himself trying to kill Sasuke and came close. Beating Danzo was really nothing to me as Danzo was to me weak. His only thing that seem to make him a equal in the fight was his summoning beast, his once rare wind chakra abilities and his experience other than that nothing more. He beat Orochimaru at his weakest. Naruto…well the Pain fight that is all I have to say on that. He beat Kakuzu. His 4 tails was on par with Orochimaru who put all his remaining powers in this fight but not Naruto himself. Both have beat people on their own but not with problems and controversy. I like both character but I will agree that the Sasuketon was a bit too much. Sorry Fleece, It may seem like I am taking token’s side but I am not.

    Jutsu learning. Both to me have passed each other many times. Be it normal training. help from cursed or forbidden jutsus, Being taught by Sannin. Both are very strong. Yes Sasuke power ups come from inside him but it comes from his eyes. Naruto as trained and his powers and abilities come from inside too, many from the fox. However both the eyes and the fox come from Juubi. And both have had power ups from outside sources. Cursed seal and Sage Mode. Now they are powered up again from their Juubi sources.

    Now they are two of the top ten most powerful ninjas in the PRESENT Naruto Universe, I did not say past ninjas, the ones that are still alive in the manga. As of now Naruto is arguably the strongest but like Fleece said wait til Sasuke return to action.

    At the time Sage Mode was great until Sasuke went on his rampage and now with Naruto in control of the Nine Tails chakra, Sage Mode has been downplayed. BOTH Naruto and Sasuke are cocky and will fight anyone not just Sasuke. Has Naruto ever ran from a fight? No. So we can’t say that. Both fought people that has a lot of experience then them and beat them or the fight was interrupted. Look at Kakuzu. Probably has the most experienced of everyone with the exception of “Madara” and Naruto beat him. So when defending someone,this is not a crack at Fleece or token, nor am I going after you guys but when defending your favorite character you must research the other character the other person is defending too. Because both make good points but are leaving out some important ones.

  190. @ Kisu, I thought the same thing when I saw that picture because it really does look like Obito so I guess that debate is about to come back and I was just so happy that it was gone and now it’s about to completely dismantle my nerves but since this is a little interesting seeing this picture then I guess I can put up with it.

    I just want to know the whole story already, reveal it now Kishi! If it is Obito then I want it to be reavealed to kakashi. Maybe that why Kakashi’s eye technique would affect him because it’s his eye and oh there I go startng the debate! Damn it!

  191. He also looks really young and it kinda adds up, maybe he came up with a technique to help him regenerate or something.

  192. The reason I say Sasuke is a brat is that he is a powerful ninja, he is shown the truth about his brother, and he turns against his brother’s true heart to fulfill his own selfish wants.

    If Sasuke in the end is following Itachi’s dream, I will forgive him… or if in the end he realizes Itachi’s dream. Otherwise, he will always be a brat to me.

  193. @YF2

    I don’t know. When he semi-removed his mask when talking to Sasuke after Itcahi’s death. He look old. Similar to Danzo which helped fuel that crazy theory a while back. But regenerate is a strong possibility because of the stuff he uses to refit his lost limbs, the stuff that looks a lot like Zetsu.

  194. Maybe he can move from body to body like Orochimaru but doesn’t have to wait three years to do it. I don’t know what else it could be but I have to say he does look like Obito.

  195. @John Nope, I just wanted to anger those Jiraiya fans that’s all LoL, Let’s see how far Jiraiya goes in the next tournament, it depends on whose creating it

    I hope Tobi doesn’t turn out to be someone’s long lost relative, That would really kill the hype. It has got to be Obito or atleast the Body of Obito.

  196. Ryu, your both correct and wrong. Although both Sasuke & Naruto needed help with from teams, Sasuke is much smarter. Naruto didn’t beat Kakuzu lol, Kakashi helped. Sasuke did defeat Deidara, nobody interfered except Tobi who placed the bombs trying to explode Sasuke. And I admit he didn’t beat Itachi, Nobody won the fight, but according to Zetsu, Sasuke won. Pein wasn’t trying to kill Naruto, he was trying to collect the 9 tails, and he had Naruto beat. Sasuke is absolutely the best.
    He beat Naruto at the end of pt 1, and he was going to kill Naruto when they found him in pt 2, but Orochimaru told him to spear his life. How can anyone forget this? Was Orochimaru 100% when he faced the 4 tails? I’m not sure if he was or not

    You have to ask yourself, Whose the better fighter: Sasuke, Whose the smartest: Sasuke, Whose more quicker: Sasuke. Naruto said it himself that Sasuke was stronger than him. He said it after their last confrontation, so if you agree with me or not, remember Naruto said it himself, so to call Naruto the strongest is just a opinion

    I know Sasuke is training with his new eyes, and Ripcord you know Sasuke is unpredictable, who knew he was going to absorb Oro. He would become good soon hopefully

  197. New chapter out everyone!!!!! going to wait on Bob before I hit the comments.

  198. HAH!!

    looks like nagato’s NO reincarnation of the sage ;)

    damn i’m good :P

  199. @lilmoe, you’ll need to explain how Nagato activated the Rinnegan on his own :P

Comments are closed.

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 74 other followers