Post Author: Bob
Hi folks, chapter 506 is here. Sorry for the delay in getting this chapter discussion out, I was exhausted after doing a load of work yesterday and just fell asleep as soon as I got home. Is sleep > Naruto? My body seems to think so. LOL. Back to the chapter at hand, it was pretty decent for the start of the Kisame vs Guy fight, but after being spoiled by Kyuubi, Minato and Kushina for the last couple of weeks, getting back to the present storyline just doesn’t give me the same excitement and anticipation. Besides, Naruto has got new powers now, shouldn’t we be seeing him kick Kisame’s butt? Oh right, he broke his ankle… typical Naruto 
Being a fast paced chapter, I don’t have too much to say other than some of the details I noticed about the techniques and tactics used. I first wanted to comment on just how stupidly fast the situation reversed for Kisame. I wouldn’t be whining about this if it was due to Kisame’s tactics and skill, but everything worked out in shark-dude’s favor simply because of the stupidity of the good guys. 1. Naruto has Kisame pinned but gets his foot stuck and breaks his ankle so he can’t pursue. 2. Instead of trying to help take down Kisame by trapping him with Wood jutsu, Yamato instead goes to help Naruto’s stuck foot (not exactly a life-threatening injury). 3. Instead of continuing the attack on Kisame after Gai’s blow, Killer Bee instead lets his guard down and allows Kisame to drain his chakra. Now, Kisame’s all juiced up again with a Jinchuuriki’s chakra as well as being just spitting distance from the sea where he gets a bonus to all his abilities. I realize these guys are far from Minato and Kakashi’s level in terms of battle tactics, but how do they expect to battle Madara if the whole lot of them together can’t even put down a weakened Kisame?
Okay, maybe I’m not giving enough credit to Kisame here. This guy is one of the last surviving Akatsuki members of the original group, and he didn’t get this far without some brains to back up his muscles. When Samehada separated from Kisame on page 3, he must have created a clone of himself on the shore while he was already in the water ready to use Samehada to drain Killer Bee’s chakra. The part that confuses is what happens after when the Leaf ninja (can’t remember his name) throws several kunais-attached-to-strings at Kisame and ends up getting his chakra drained. Kisame is no longer holding Samehada at this point, so how is he able to drain another person’s chakra? Is this an inherit ability of his we’ve never witnessed before or maybe an after effect of being merged with Samehada for so long. This new ability just makes me want to learn more about Kisame’s past because of this symbiosis — like he was made for his sword as much as the sword was made for him.
Lastly, just to comment on Guy’s actions this chapter: he is really going all out to stop Kisame. I chuckled at the turtle’s comment about being summoned in mid-air after not being called on for years. The last time I remember seeing him summoned was when Guy first introduced himself, that time he used the turtle as a pedestal while he did his nice guy pose. Poor turtle, I bet he wished he had signed a contract with someone who was just a little less of a blockhead. Anyways, onto Guy’s use of Gates in this chapter: I understand he is facing against Kisame here, but Guy appears to be pulling out all the tricks from the start of this fight. It’s just been a few pages, but he’s already activated the Seventh Gate: Wonder Gate in order to match Kisame’s power in the water. From the way Kishi has drawn it, Kisame’s Giant Shark Missile appears to be near equivalent in power with Guy’s Afternoon Tiger. If the attack at the end of the chapter ends in a stalemate, would Guy actually resort to opening the final gate: Death Gate? The flow of the battle seems to suggest so, but it’s also called ‘Death’ gate for a reason in that it will damage his body in such ways that death is near certain. But on the other hand, the situation is not nearly dire enough for Guy to throw his life away like that. My money is still on Kisame kicking the bucket sometime soon; it’ll be sad to see him go seeing as he’s one of the longest surviving villains in the series… but I’m sure Madara will make Kabuto bring Kisame back as an undead summon.
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This chapter wasnt all that informative or interesting as we had till now, but as u said bob, all the supposedly skilled ninjas are conveniently out of the picture so that guycan fight kisame… Well I was waiting for this 4 a long time, but wud have liked to see naruto in action with his new powers…
first, well i think guy let loose because he doesn’t have to act in front of lee at the moment. he can now use his ninjutsu, which should be enormous, because if my memory is correct that turtle is a whole lot bigger from his first appearance, that goes to what sakura said in the beginning of the series a ninja has to train his body to build chakra, and since guy took on lee, he has been doing nothing but training his body to set an example for lee who can’t mold chakra, so guy’s chakra should be up there with a tailed beast as well. another thing, the size of the summons depends on the chakra output, and that was a big turtle.
i don’t think that guy will die in this battle with kisame, and i don’t think kisame will die. i think their real battle will happen during the war, but i do think guy will stop that info from getting out.damn so that means that he will have to kill kisame. but anyway, kisame is guy’s enemy so if guy were to kill kisame, then we won’t be seeing anymore action from guy, unless it would be a sacrifice to save lee. thanks for reading good-bye
hell yea first!!
damn never mind, itwouldve been my first time too T_T
I beat u to it….. Sorry 2 dissapoint u…
Gai is denser than depleted uranium… a giant blowfish?!
Watching Kisame do the hand signs, I wondered how our favorite copy nin would do in a 1-on-1 fight with Uncle Kisame, given that Gai is just going to use brute force. Sharingan (MK, genjutsu) vs tailed beast level chakra, a wide array of jutsu + multiple elements + pretty low stamina vs. the ability to absorb chakra + heal using the absorbed chakra. I would put them about equal on tactics, mostly because I haven’t seen Kisame make any blockhead mistakes.
uchigatana: I think that Kakashi would win because he doesn’t have the tailed beast chakra levels making it hard to absorb and he has lightning element which is too much for Kisame to absorb WITH Samehada, plus Kisame was no match for Itachi’s genjutsu so I don’t think he would be good against Kakashi, add to that Kakashi already has lots of experience against mist ninja and I think he would win. This is saying a lot for me too since Kisame is one of my favorites (next to Kabuto and Madara)
Yeah, it was a good chapter but I’m pissed that is was so short after a break last weak and your right that the goodguys were extremely stupid in this chapter. Why didn’t they send someone like Kakashi or Shikamaru instead of the unnamed leaf ninja. His technique to catch someone was weak, Shikamaru could have been more effective with the shadow tech. while Guy kicked his ass.
Killerbee is one of my favorite characters and he disappointed me here, I new he was a goof but when it comes to fighting he seemed smart and here he just look crazy but I guess I can’t blame him that much because Naruto once again had us all excited and then he goes and breaks his ankle!
Kishi you better make up for this next chapter!
Oh, and who’s side is samehada on?LOL
You have to admit Samehada seems like a cute little pet/weapon.
i personally liked this chapter. while the story telling the past few weeks was nice, i really missed fast-paced action like this. and on Guy using his gates so quickly, maybe he can vaguely remember Kisame or can somehow tell that this dude’s probably the strongest person he’s ever faced (based off of the million sharks he summoned), and that’s y Guy’s pulling out all the stops. or maybe Kishi just felt like putting in some gratuitous violence XD
on a side note, that “1000 Sharks Jutsu” really reminded me of a jutsu Kisame has in Ultimate Ninja 4, 5, and Heroes 3, called “Suiton: Infinite Sharks” (which was one of my fav jutsus in UN4 and UNH3). i just thought that was worth pointing out
I agree with Yellow flash. Killer bee is my favorite character but Kishi made him look quite silly. I was disappointed as well but I knew Kishi had to get all the good guys out the picture so Guy could fight one on one with Kisame.
Never been a big Kisame fan anyway so I could care less what happens to him.
@yellowflash2 I think Samehada is with Killer bee for now. He look just as surprised when Kisame absorbed the chakra he was eating from Bee…
Mart: Yeah, but… since this chapter shows Kisame absorbing glasses-nin’s chakra w/out his pet sword, I assume you mean that he would be using it to counter his weakness to lightning jutsu. I really miss One Manga now because I want to check if the manga included the statement that Itachi could use just his finger to perform genjutsu: the point being that Kakashi is nowhere near Itachi in that area and he could then use Gai’s strategy of not looking in Kakashi’s eyes. If Kakashi could get the upper hand in a few moves then I think he would win, otherwise the best he could hope for is to retreat.
@Prodigy: look again, seems more like Kisame MADE Samehada start eating the chakra; Bee didn’t notice that Kisame had grabbed the handle.
My question is why did Kisame leave behind Samehada if he made it go to KB, it seems like it’d be easy for him to just grab samehada and take off afterwards if he did still have control of it. But it could be that Samehada was out of his control after latching onto KB, so Kisame ditched it to get out there faster.
@uchigatana,
After looking again I think you might be right. But to answer the question Yellowflash2 question if I am not mistaken he is still with KB
@uchigatana,
After looking again I think you might be right. But to answer Yellowflash2 question if I am not mistaken he is still with KB…
This was an ok chapter. I really hope kisame escapes and guy lives. It would suck to have one of them die before the war breaks out.
@ Bob I think samheda has turned traitor. kisame had to get out of their fast to deliver his information & didn’t have time to deal with his sword.
Also look at the 2nd picture from the manga in my post. That ‘!?’ looks like it’s pointing towards Samehada, meaning it was surprised when Kisame grabbed its hilt and sucked away the chakra.
I can say I’m glad they are giving more characters some spot light, I really wish they give Neji a good fight, because in Part 1 he was one of the strongest fights and now he barely gets any air time.
Guy was great, Hes suppose to be stronger than Kakashi so let’s see what he’s got, I like Kisame but his character isn’t all that important to me, I would rather Guy stay alive than Kisame! Imaging the state Lee would be in if Guy was to die, Lee would go crazy!
@Bob
Exactly. Like I said in my first post Samehada look surprised when Kisame was draining the chakra from it…
“Itachi could use just his finger to perform genjutsu”: I agree Itachi is much better at Genjutsu since it was his most used shinobi skill and that WAS part of the Manga.
“I assume you mean that he would be using it to counter his weakness to lightning jutsu.” Well if he was going to absorb Kakashi’s chakra, then Chidori (Kakashi’s go-to move) is what he would likely be matched up against, and he would have trouble absorbing that if WITH Samehada he couldn’t even absorb Bee’s projectile.
I think samehada is on Bees side and Kisame forced Samehada to absorb KB’s chakra because he would have went with Kisame if he was on his side.
Also Samehada has to still have chakra inside him for him to have fed off of Kisame and killerbee so he should give KB a boost of chakra.
Doesn’t this also make Kisame weaker because he can’t fuse with Samehada and if he can’t absorb chakra by himself he’s even more weaker, wait does this mean Killerbee can fuse with Samehada or maybe ha can’t because of the Hachibi but since he has control over the Hachibi maybe he can which would make him unstoppable. Does that make any sense?
“he can’t absorb chakra by himself”: He already did, and it makes sense that he can on some level because he has to get it from Samehada, but he probably can’t absorb it from the air like Samehada could, and is limited like the guy Sasuke fought in the chunin exam prelim.
“Killerbee can fuse with Samehada” It probably takes some kind of training/body modification since Kisame had years with it and still had limits on what he could absorb. Plus he had the Mist Village’s knowledge of the sword, so I think it’s going to be a while before KB is up to par with it.
@mart1
You guys are mixing things up here! Kisame/Samehada can absorb chakra, but it has not been shown that they absorb ninjutsu techniques like HG Realm. Once the chakra has been shaped into a jutsu, like chidori, I would bet Kisame/Samehada are unable to absorb it. Every time (that I recall) Kisame absorbed someone’s chakra, it was as they were gathering chakra to perform a technique.
I think Kakashi fighting Kisame would be like a Rock-Paper-Scissors analogy, on the earth, Kakashi would have an edge, since he knows some earth jutsus (which is more against water), but on the edge of water… well Kisame has the edge over anyone else, probably even over a major katon user.
I don’t really get this “Afternoon Tiger” technique, I mean, it HAS to be a taijutsu, since that’s what the 8-gates are all about, but I don’t really see how he’s doing it. Maybe next week it will be clearer. Although in 1 to 2 weeks I expect there to be one final jutsu after the Death Gate:
Evening Dragon
“uchigatana: I think that Kakashi would win because he doesn’t have the tailed beast chakra levels making it hard to absorb and he has lightning element which is too much for Kisame to absorb WITH Samehada, plus Kisame was no match for Itachi’s genjutsu”
Whut? Not having Tailed beast levels means he’ll run out faster. Just look at that Konoha Chunin that attacked Kisame this chapter. And Kisame has been seen absorbing Raiton chakra, its nothing for him. And I don’t recall Itachi using genjutsu against Kisame, or doing anything antagonist towards Kisame for that matter. As a matter of fact, Samehada can easily disrupt Genjutsu just like how the Hachibi did.
Anyway, time to make excuses for Kisame:
1. He got a punch that was hard enough to make him cough up blood, no telling how much damage that did
2. He is NOT at full power. At full power he has the amount of chakra a Biju would have and that’s clearly not the case here (Kisame only got what little of Bee’s chakra was left and chakra from a Chunin, not exactly Biju level).
And I say the 8 gates are no different from Orochimaru’s Curse Seal. The Curse Seal forces out chakra you normally CANT access, so do the gates. Kisame is fighting in the normal realms of a Naruniverse human (not really that great of an excuse, hence why it wasn’t numbered).
Samehada seems to be on Bee’s side now. Bee said Kisame forced Samehada to absorb his chakra. I hope Kisame feeds that treacherous sword to one of his sharks.
Final statement: Kisame > Guy is an understatement. Kisame would be like the Sun while Guy would be like a meteorite lol
i kinda like seeing gai. he brings a light-hearted humor, but still delivers badass moves. kind of refreshing.
samehada is loyal to KB, unless kisame forces him to act otherwise.
also, if kisame can literally become on with the sword, i don’t think it is that far-fetched that he can also use similar techniques, such as draining chakra.
the expressions on the animals on page 8 were priceless.
Kisame lost his akatsuki cloak… he may be about to die… i mean itachi diedera the imortal brothers sasori all ditched there cloaks before dying…
or pherhaps thats what kishi wants us to think…. hmm..
oh and i think kisame is yet to show us his full power, i mean 5 man eating sharks just powered up… doesnt seem too akatsuki like…. he must have some massive jutsu up his sleeve
poor kisame
waiting for the flashbacks of Kisame
I think his water style giant shark missile is his ultimate jutsu @dry
Samehada seems to be the only reason I like Kisame anymore X3
I believe this chapter wasn’t supposed to be informative, because it HAS in fact been awhile since a Battle Chapter has been in play and I think it was past due for one. Seems weird to say that, but I think this chapter delivered a good portion of what we need and are expecting.
“it has not been shown that they absorb ninjutsu techniques”: Actually that was exactly what was shown, 1. Samehada absorbing Bee’s Lightning Pencil and Chakra Cannon 2. Kisame absorbing the stone needle jutsu
“Rock-Paper-Scissors analogy”: Except that Kakashi’s main element is lightning (>Earth, = or > water) and he has Earth as a side element (>water) (I’m not saying his Earth > Kisame’s Water but as elements go) top that off with /sharingan and the strategy Kisame lacks (He even said so to some extent) and I give Kakashi the win IN THIS SITUATION (He isn’t full power and has lost Samehada. Full power Kisame vs. Kakashi is all up to oppinion since it would come down to Kakashi being overpowered and worn down.
@mart actually one of the pencils actually grazed kisame and was not absorbed. Also kakashi is one of my favorite characters but against kisame he stands no chance. Have to remember that kisame not only has chakra like a tailed beast but he also is a expert swordsman and water user and kakashi has no defense against attacks like kisames water dome. On a side note seeing as how kisame was fused with samehada how come he didn’t slowly and occasionally drain a little of kbs chakra over time?
@token, he didn’t absorb the pencil because he was distracted. There he absorbed the Raiton chakra without effort
http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-470/14/
@token Maybe kisame did “ocaissionally drain kbs chakra over time”just maintain his jutsu; he was on an recon mission. I thought that all kisame was supposed was to keep close to kb and then pounce on him wjenever he was tired and alone. There was usually someone around bee whenever we saw him. I think that kisame could have probably made his move around the time when naruto was convincing kb to train him but that would probably draw to much attention to himself. Plus in addition to weak and alone, kisame may have wished that kb was quiet when he launched an attack I have a suspicion that kb devoted all his free time to perfectin’ his rhymes so there was probably no chance that kb would ever be quiet. With all this going on, I guess that all kisame could do is keep his jutsu going. If he had tried to still even a little of bees chakra for himself bee might have noticed.
@everyone Since kisame might have gained the abilitty to absorb chakra from his time spent joined with sameheda, I was wondering if anyone thinks it adds to his personal traits as a character. I mean do you think that kisame has tried to ride the coat tails of other strong ninja or is original enough on his own? I think that kisame is a very interesting character, but I want to look at a character like kisame and discuss whether his powers and enhancements help readers to get a good sense of who he is personally. I want to hear what you guys think about how well a trademark jutsu, like naruto’s shadow clones fit with his personality or how choji is anything like his human expansion jutsu. This challenge comes from a guy who gets so freaked out when a balloon pops, his explanation might actually put you to sleep. Please, discuss!
I think for the most part the jutsus all show quite a bit of the ninjas personality and style. Take chidori for kakashi it was originally a assassination jutsu which fits his style of mixing careful planning with deadly precision. Shikamarus shadow jutsu is really kind of a lazy jutsu where all u do is make a move and Viola the opponent does the same. Its simple slightly lazy but can be deadly just like shikamaru. There is itachi who’s jutsus r quick deadly and close to instantaneous. Like itachi the jutsus r subtle and hard to pick up on and further reinforce his skills as a brilliant tactician And strategist. Peins jutsus all reflect his character and how power to him fixes and rights everything (like how he can use shinra tensei to if he wanted wipe out a village and make a “fresh” start)
@ naru, hey, r u going to make another “Gamers Zone” anytime soon? since theres been a lot of news about Storm 2 recently. just wondering
@Nemo: Actually, I did in fact plan on making one within the next day or so because of the recent gameplay videos that reminded me that I DID actually run a Gamer Blog on here…So, yes, in reply to your question.
@ naru, thnx dude. i’ve missed them, and even tho i’m very much up-to-speed on Naruto games, i really like your video-game analysis’s in much the same way i like Bob’s chapter analysis’s despite being up-to-date on the manga
oh, and on an unrelated note, the useless Konoha guy who nobody apparently knows the name of: he’s a special Jonin named Aoba Yamashiro (thank u Narutopedia, lol)
@Nemo, did you say JONIN? That just proves that the ninja standards are lowering >_>
“attacks like kisames water dome”: Well 1. he did that jutsu on borrowed chakra 2. Kakashi could use lightning element jutsu since water conducts lightning, giving him an instant kill on Kisame (Bee couldn’t because Sabo would have been collateral damage) 3. underwater breathing is a weird phenomenon in the Naruverse ex. Neji and Tenten trapped in Kisame’s water prison, Neji could breath, Tenten couldn’t, Kakashi apparently has this skill since he was able to survive Zabuza’s similar prison.
ninja standards are lowering >_>
oh I meant ” “ninja standards are lowering >_>” no Kisu. they’ve always been low, we just always see the best ninja’s so the average ones look bad, plus Aoba’s Jutsu is better thab Ino’s or Shikamaru’s, he just got a bad match up against Kisame
@token or like how jiraiya’s jutsus remind people of earth images like mountains and swamp. Jiraiya sure kept his mind on physical features, LOL. And, like most of kísame’s jutsus carry on a shark theme. Like the shark, kisame can be extremely dangerous but he is sometimes misunderstood.
@mart I don’t believe electricity works like in Pokemon.. doesn’t lightning beat earth and earth beat water here? That’s y kusame did not want to face off against yamato as he was a earth user so kakashi could not kill him in one shot… and if kisame can absorb without samehada a good chance raikiri would be absorbed. And actually kakashi got out thanks to naruto and sasuke.
I have a sneaky feeling that Guy might get killed by Kisame, and then it’ll be up to Lee to defeat Kisame during the war (i mean what is would Lee be useful for??).
good chapter though. the good guys’ idiocity is to conviniently get them out of the picture so guy would fight kisame 1v1
@token
Well, electricity does flow through water (remember Suigetsu vs Killerbee), but Kakashi’s chidori dog… we don’t know how strong it is. If it is as strong as his original chidori, then Kakashi has a good chance. Of course, he has to end it in 1 or 2 moves because I don’t think Kakashi could last in the kind of battle Might Guy is having.
One other thing, I don’t think Kisame needs all that much chakra here because he already has all that water he can manipulate. Granted, the last time he didn’t have all that water he created it, but this time he didn’t have to do that.
@cesc
I see your point about Lee, but that seems too tragic for me. As to the older generation dying:
Asuma: died failing to achieve his mission
Sarutobi: died half completing, though ultimately failing
Kakashi: died failing after a totally kickass fight with God Realm, given a second chance
I mean, if we have to lose another jounin, can’t we lose them dying gloriously in battle for a change? I feel like we need that here, we need Might Guy to succeed, for him to defend his way of youth, for him to prove taijutsu is strong, for him to prove Konoha jounin are strong. Even if he dies, if he can kill Kisame, it’s the best possible victory in my eyes.
I was thinking about this again, and I realized that Kishi has to be careful here, otherwise he will distort some of the perceptions we had at the beginning of the manga (similar to how important the Byakugan is… although there is still time to change that).:
1.Might Guy dies before opening all 8 gates–we will wonder, can he open all 8? was Might Guy afraid of opening all 8?
2.Might Guy opens all 8 gates and loses–so much for “strength surpassing Hokage” as Kakashi put it. Kisame may be a beast, we already know that, but the power of the 8 gates has never been demonstrated before. If they fail here, I will never have faith in Lee ever.
3.Might Guy defeats Kisame with Afternoon Tiger–we feel that Kisame was cheated, being weakened and without Samehada (although it is Kisame’s own fault for putting himself in this position).
4.It is a draw, both live and Kisame gets away—what was the point of this fight? why bother bringing Might Guy to the island, I am not impressed.
5.Might Guy opens all 8 gates and defeats Kisame–the power of the 8 gates holds true and Might Guy being on the island has some purpose. Lee has a chance now to show the true power of taijutsu in the future and can still believe in his Ninja Way.
I feel like #5 is the best scenerio (as you can see in my potential comments after seeing which one is in the next chapter). I don’t like it that much really, because it just feels too obvious, but unless someone else intervenes in this fight, I don’t see any other outcome than those 5.
” I don’t believe electricity works like in Pokemon..”: They are neutural, but there is no way for Kakashi to not hit Kisame. Plus he HAS earth ninjutsu to counter Kisame’s water.
“kusame did not want to face off against yamato” Where was this stated? I thought he just wanted to avoid a 6 vs. 1 battle not Yammato specifically.
“kisame can absorb without samehada” Kisu. Brought up an interesting point about Kisame absorbing some jutsu and not others, to which my response is that it was not surprise but the built up charge that did it (since Bee’s first attack was simply on continuous stream of low chakra as opposed to his second which was a burst of big chakra) Chidori is a charged up attack so it would do more than even the pencil attack since it had more chakra. However this was WITH Samehada (who can absorb chakra from the environment) while Kisame has only been shown to do it through direct contact with the chakra, and is probably at a lower level in terms of absorbing chakra than Samehada is.
“And actually kakashi got out thanks to naruto and sasuke” I didn’t say he got out, I said survived, as he was able to stay in that prison for quite some time while Naruto gave his “beleive it!” speach to Zabuza.
@mart no it wasn’t specifically implied but at the same time kusame did specifically mention how he would have to face off against a wood user and That shows that yamato does pose something of a threat to him. Also.when behind was in the bubble I think he could just hold his breathe longer than ten ten I don’t think he could breathe underwater so had it not been for sasuke and naruto kakashi would not have survived. Although kakashi is a cool character I think people over hype his abilities. Kisame has gone toe to toe and almost beat the 8 tails… I mean who has kakashi beaten near that level? He went up against itachi and lasted 15 seconds.
@ kisu on Aoba, he’s actually a SPECIAL jonin, not a full blown Jonin. but i will agree that the rankings make little to no sense in that there r chunins and even some genin who could beat certain jonin, so i question the logic behind a lot of the promotions and wonder if maybe the Kage’s personal preference has anything to do w/ anything
on Kakashi vs Kisame, i think Kisame would win simply becuz Kakashi wouldn’t have enuf stamina and i doubt his techniques could kill Kisame as quickly as mart and some others r saying; they’d still hurt Kisame like a bitch, but i doubt they’d have enuf kick to them to finish the job in only 1 or 2 strikes. which against some1 who drains your very lifeforce and @ 1/3 power can whipe the floor w/ all of Team Guy, 1 or 2 chances might b all somebody w/ Kakashi’s low stamina has
Kisame also has Earth jutsus. And lightning isnt super effective (pokémon lol) against water, its super effective against the stuff IN the water. Remember we had this discussion when Kisame first used his water dome.
@JPUA, “so i question the logic behind a lot of the promotions and wonder if maybe the Kage’s personal preference has anything to do w/ anything ”
The Kage made the right choice appointing Neji though
I think special jonins are shinobi who aren’t exactly at jonin level yet, they’re more chunin level but have specialized in a certain skill or skills that is at jonin level. I’ve seen Aoba and some of the others as examiners during the exams so I like to think of them as graduate students — they’re just specializing their skills before becoming full fledged shinobi.
“a wood user”: not earth.
“had it not been for sasuke and naruto”: I disagree, I think he would have used lightning element while in the water prison but wanted his team to get a safe distance away first.
“He went up against itachi and lasted 15 seconds.”: 1. Kisame admits that Itachi is stronger. 2. Kakashi critically wounded Deidara, Zabuza, and Kakuzu 3. Kisame ALMOST took out bee, he didn’t actually do it. 4. Kisame has only fought against Jounin level ninja and never had a victory. Not to mention he was Yamato’s sempai, who you say Kisame doesn’t want to fight and Gai’s rival.
@mart1
You forget though that wood users are earth and water users, and Yamato is proficient in both elements. I’m not saying that he would go toe to toe with Kisame in an all out water battle, but his wood element and earth have significant advantages.
About Kakashi escaping the water prison, I don’t know about that. He doesn’t have the kind of insight on chakra flow that Neji had (which allowed him to break out of Kisame’s water prisons). Not that I think that Kakashi would have given up, but I’m not sure he could break the barrier that holds the water together. I don’t think the outer barrier of the sphere is made of water is it?
I am not arguing against Kakashi’s strength, he’s my 2nd fav. character, and I actually thought he might beat God Realm when they were fighting. However, he has low stamina, especially when compared to Kisame, so I believe if Kakashi can get close to Kisame before Kisame puts water everywhere, Kakakshi wins, otherwise, I think it would be Kisame’s victory (although now maybe Kakakshi could just use Kamui since he’s had a lot of practice using it quickly).
“Just Passing” commented earlier that Lee can’t mold chakra. This is untrue, since he can walk on water and stick to walls, which requires chakra molding. More importantly, based on Kisame’s description of the morning peacock as high-speed hand movement, this means that this is a high-level taijutsu technique that Lee can achieve and possibly surpass.
@ kisu “The Kage made the right choice appointing Neji though”, considering Shino or Shikamaru (2 Chunins) could probably wipe the floor w/ him in 1-on-1 battles (and he isn’t that much stronger than many others in the Konoha 12) he was 1 of the over-hyped Jonin i was talking about. i don’t feel like debating it tho, but to put it simply, Kakashi and Guy r really the only Jonins i kno of who really deserve all the hype they (Jonins) get, most others aren’t very special compared to many Chunin (remember, Yamato’s an Anbu, not a Jonin, so he doesn’t count)
“You forget though”: Actually no, Token’s original statement was that Kisame feared Yamato as a Earth user, when 1. he was more like a side though and 2. He doesn’t neccesarily know that Wood = Earth + Water since we only know that because Yammato explained it. Kisame knows Yammato has wood from observation but not earth. Furthermore they are still seperate elements with different properties.
“kind of insight on chakra flow”: 1. He has the Sharingan which gives him SOME insight 2. He has more experience than Neji 3. He doesn’t need to disrupt the flow in the barrier is he can kill Zabuza with lightning since the technique would break down without Zabuza’s chakra 4. The outer part as well as the inner part is made up of condensed water.
“Shino or Shikamaru”: 1. Shino MIGHT beat Neji but Shikamaru would deffinately lose 2. Being promoted isn’t about who is the strongest but about who is the best leader (chunin) and teacher (jounin) though skill is neccesary, this is probably why Neji is more effective than those two or others, since his Byakugan lets him determine Shinobi skill levels while Shino would just creep out students and Shikamaru would ignore them (post Assuma’s death may have changed this). The only Jounin I feel are overhyped are Kurenai and Anko.
@mart1
Actually, Jounins are allowed to teach genins only because they are so good, because they know what it means to be a ninja. And because they are skilled enough to protect the genins.
About Kakashi and the water prison, I see no reason for Kakashi to put the genin’s lives in jeopardy by pretending to be stuck. You don’t know that chidori could break out of the water prison, I fail to see why Kakashi wouldn’t do it if that would be his way out.
As to wood = water + earth, I think that the Shodai Hokage’s abilities are pretty well known, ESPECIALLY to Akatsuki.
Kakashi an guy to me are the 2 jonins that are a step from being considered kage level like for me if kakashi had a better endurance he would be a kage level an guy if his analytical skills an knowledge of ninjutsu was around kakashi level he’d be kage level my point being those two are so awesome they make other normal jonin look week
@uchigatana, i am correct, answer me this, y was lee picked at and cast out as an outcast from the beginning of the series, it is because he can’t mold chakra into ninjutsu or taijutsu. he does have chakra, but he can’t mold it. everyone knows this, that is why decided to strictly train him in taijutsu. lee doesn’t walk on water or hang on walls with his chakra.in one ep him and tenten or sakura were peeping on someone, and he claimed to have used a ninjutsu tech to make him vanish, but in actuality he moved real fast. what guy is using in his fight with kisame, is clearly ninjutsu, i mean he summoned his turtle which takes ninjutsu, what, u think he summoned it with determination. come on dude, now that lee isn’t around guy can show us what he can really do, and why he is kakashi’s rival and konoha’s green beast, it isn’t his taijutsu, which is impressive btw. thanks for reading, some of the guys that dictate this site will also give u examples, they live for this kind of thing me, i am not a debater
“Shodai Hokage’s abilities are pretty well known”: I think that he can use those three elements (or at least wood) is known, but I don’t think that the average (akatsuki or otherwise) ninja relates them since there has only ever been two users. It’s like assuming all sharingan users have fire element simply because most do, unless you know the specifics on how to preform the jutsu which most don’t.
“why Kakashi wouldn’t do it if that would be his way out” Because as long as he staied there Zabuza wasn’t attacking Tazuna the bridge builder, if he used chidori then Zabuza would have a chance to counter attack, but if he had them run and then use it then Tazuna would be fine.
and i meant he can’t mold chakra into ninjutsu and genjutsu, his words were, imma show the world that u can be a great ninja without the use of ninjutsu and genjutsu, u can be great with taijutsu.. and if i am not mistaken, lee can’t summon which takes a blood and chakra pact contract. i love lee and guy, but lee can’t mold his chakra, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have it
even kakashi says so in the chunin exams.
@just passing, he gets better at molding chakra in Shippuden. In Part 1 he had 0 for Genjutsu and Ninjutsu, now he has 1 for them. He can also mold chakra to stand on walls and walk on water. So he CAN mold chakra, but he isn’t very good at it.
@Mart, how do you know Raikiri would break through the Prison? If he could, he would have done that.
@just passing, Lee is standing on the water.
http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-256/10/
@kisuzachi, dude do u just troll the site to pick arguments with the ppl that voice their opinions, okay he can walk on water and ok his genjutsu and ninjutsu are 1 geez.
@mart1
I agree with kisuzachi. Look at this link:
http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-14/03/
Kakakshi says “this is bad” meaning he doesn’t have a way out of the water prison. It is way out of character for Kakashi to give up like that.
if he has a way out.
“dude do u just troll the site to pick arguments”: Can you guys stop accusing Kisu.? He happens to be right about the Lee thing and most of his stated facts (his oppinions such as Pein is the best are his own, but “Lee can mold chakra” isn’t oppinion. You are wrong, he has proof acept that since it isn’t meant to be mean just acurate.) I enjoy arguing, as much or more than him, I like shannaro because it’s easy to debate on, and if you don’t want to talk or read about the chapter/ current debate/ oppinion, you don’t have to.
Kisu. my analysis of Raikiri is this: Drop a toaster/radio/live wires in a bathtub and anyone in it probably gets fried. So if Kakashi uses lightning jutsu in a body of water, it will create a similar effect. Since Zabuza had his hand INSIDE the water prison and was standing on the water, he would be well within range. I accept that the water might SOMEHOW be different from normal water, however, the only STATED difference is that the water is denser, which would make it a BETTER conductor and force the lightning MORE towards Zabuza’s hand. I view it less as a element battle and more of a strategic one, in that if you use an equal level water jutsu and an equal level lightning jutsu just hurled at the opponent they would both do either the same damage (ex. chidori vs. rasengan) or nullify each other BUT If you evade (the death blow) of the water jutsu, then you have a good counter attack with the lightning jutsu.
But he didn’t neccesarily give up, I see his message as “Run away, you need to protect Tazuna.” the “This fight was over part” is simply to convince the Genin to get away without letting Zabuza know he hasn’t given up. If he said “Run away, so I can end this safely, our duty is to protect Tazuna” then Zabuza would have probably changed targets and either tried to instantly kill Kakashi or Tazuna in one blow so that he could complete his mission
lol, u guys win, u can argue all u want i won’t add fuel to the fire, thats a womans job, i just won’t post anymore, cause i don’t like to argue or debate, and u guys do, i just want to post my opinion and not have to worry about u guys dragging my name in the mud. so applaud u win. put that in quotes.
Lol just passing g how boring would it be if people didn’t defend their points? Sides we r not dragging ur name In the mud we r just trying to help keep facts as true as possible. People r gonna disagree and argue but hey helps get facts and stuff straight.
point taken, thank u, now u guys can get back to ur thing, i’m good. i guess it was just a misunderstanding on my part, but until i see lee do hand signs and perform a ninjutsu or genjutsu art he can’t mold his chakra, no matter how fast one moves their arms, it wouldn’t produce fire( guys peacock) there has to be some fire element chakra somewhere in there.
@just passing, it’s just the nature of this blog, we just like debating about everything and there’s a lot of walking Narutopedias here, and they don’t miss anything. Don’t take it personal if someone pokes at your arguments, it’s just what we do here, and just part of what keeps the community active. My advice is: stick to your guns, find weaknesses in others’ arguments and stick it to him.
http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-14/17/
Interesting point Mart1
I stil disagree about the chidori through water idea, in fact at that point Kakakshi didn’t even know the ranged version.
In any case, in the link I provided, Zabuza’s arm is clearly defenseless! Why doesn’t Kakakshi have at it? He didn’t even try to stab it?!?!? So odd.
Of course, the only thing I can think of is that while in the water prison the victim is unable to move. Is there any evidence that they can try to escape?
http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-257/18/
There you go, Lee says “Can’t move” so no movement, no Chidori.
And if you look further, Neji is able to break out because he can project chakra from his opening points all over his body, and we already know he can do that without movement.
Go checkout me latest issue of “Revenge of theYellowflash” and comment. Please!
“so no movement, no Chidori”: no movement doesn’t mean no lightning jutsu, (I’m unsure about chidori specifically, because Sasuke needed to learn Lee style Taijutsu to use it but I THINK thats because otherwise it wouldn’t be able to hit.) because you don’t need to move to gather chakra as Neji proved. Hand Signs are meant to give the jutsu form (ex. sphere, dragon, dog shape) but aren’t really neccesary at that range.
“Kakakshi didn’t even know the ranged version.” Kakashi’s never shown a “ranged version” he’s only used Raikiri, Chidori, and that Dog Lightning jutsu. But he has a massive arsenle we haven’t seen, and those three would be good enough because he only has to create the lightning and it will naturally hit it’s target.
As to why he didn’t attack: He was watching what his students could do. How are they supposed to learn the strength of a Jounin if they don’t take one on? Plus this way he gets to conserve his chakra and hide the Chidori.
@mart1
But to do Chidori you have to do the hand signs! Kakakshi needed them when he was fighting Zabuza on the bridge so how could he have done chidori in the bubble if he couldn’t make the hand signs?
http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-30/03/
Here we see that Kakashi needed 3 hand signs to perform the chidori. I could say that MAYBE if he could do chidori with 1 he could do it with none, but I won’t buy him being able to do chidori with no seals if it takes him 3 seals during a pressure situation (which the fight on the bridge certainly was).
The dog lightning jutsu is the ranged version I was talking about (ok it is midrange, but it’s not an upclose attack like the original).
“during a pressure situation”: I don’t see the water prison as a high (mental) pressure situation, since he has the time to think/gather chakra where on the bridge he has to be on constant alert for attacks. Also I would argue that since the chidori was based on the rasengan, it could (and probably has somewhere) been done without handsigns, and even more than that, you don’t need hand signs to gather chakra of any nature, since the deffined purpose of handsigns (as said by sakura I beleive) is to mold chakra into different shapes and give direction/power. Since neither of those is neccesary neither are handsigns. Anyway I’ll be gone for about two weeks starting tommarow but I’ll check your response then.
Where does it say chidori is based on the rasengan??? The rasengan is pure chakra control and the like no signs needed. Also kakashi came up with this at a real young age. Had he even seen minato use rasengan.
“Anyway I’ll be gone for about two weeks starting tomorrow but I’ll check your response then.”
Awww. Now it seems like it doesn’t make any sense to respond. But I’m kisu, so here I go. Ripcord meant that in a high pressure situation on the bridge it would have made sense not to make hand signs, but even in that situation Kakashi HAD to make handsigns, so in the situation in the Water Prison he HAS to do handsigns to form the Raikiri.
Also, according to Sakura, you use hand signs to build up chakra
http://www.citymanga.com/naruto/chapter-17/17/
“he rasengan is pure chakra control and the like no signs needed.”
This was one of the reasons Jiraiya taught it to Naruto in the first place as well. He said Chidori wasn’t Naruto’s style because it NEEDED hand signs, and Naruto isn’t exactly known for his dexterity
WOW, Kisame dies in the next chapter! Guys attack isn’t made of chakra so Kisame can’t absorb it and it destroys all the sharks and greatly injures Kisame! Aoba ( LEaf ninja) comes and reads his mind and discovers Madara manipulated the Fourth Miukage which we already knew but before he can get anything else kisame bites his tongue and kills himself!
Guy finally snagged himself an Akatsuki!
i cant believe he dies
Thank you Kisu, that’s exactly what I meant. In Part II we see many instances where Kakashi is able to form a chidori without handsigns (that is either Kishi omiting them or Kakakshi just got better), but that was WAY after Part 1. I realized earlier today though that the water prison debate is a moot point:
Against Zabuza, Kakashi said he doesn’t fall for the same jutsu twice (ok he fell for Pain’s shinra tensei several times, but we’ll ignore that one…) so there’s no way he’d fall for the water prison again.
I just found this spoiler from mangaspoiler.com:
Check it out now
Naruto 507 Spoiler Summaries
Naruto’s little quip about Guy was difficult to translate. It probably wasn’t written correctly in japanese in the first place, so i just winged something. Don’t take it to seriously
Kisame’s shark tries to absorb the chakra of Noon Tiger , but Noon Tiger isn’t made of chakra.
Guy: “Roar!! Youth!”
The shark and tiger collide
Not far away:
Yamato: “Guy-san’s Hachimon Tonkō art… Noon Tiger !”
Naruto: “Hirudora…? What, does Guy-sensei give a discount on mushy naming senses while selling his fresh youth stuff?”
Yamato: “The force of Noon Tiger spreads out over a vast range! If you don’t brace yourself…!”
A powerful wind arrives where Yamato and co. are.
Kisame collapses. Guy stands above him. Guy has the scroll (with the information) in his left hand.
Kisame is worn out: “Was that a Ki attack just now?”
Guy has white eyes: “Hirudora is taijutsu, not ninjutsu.” He explains about Noon Tiger .
Kisame moves and Guy punches him in the stomach. Kisame coughs up blood. He loses conciousness.
Scene change:
Kisame: He’s tied to a what appears to be an execution platform (like a gallows). In such a way that he cannot move his hands and neck.
Konoha’s crow user (probably Aoba) tries to get information from Kisame’s memory in a way similar to Inoichi.
Kisame has a flashback~~
His comrades invite him to eat with them, but Kisame refuses.
Seeing this, his comrades are like “Whatever~~~”
Kisame is on a mission to deliver a code. He comes across Ibiki.
Kisame annihilated all his comrades. It’s better if he alone has the code.
If the others get caught and talk, they would be killed.
Then we get to the Fourth Mizukage.
Kisame asks him whether he’s an enemy or a friend.
From behind him, Madara appears…
Madara manipulated the Fourth Mizukage.
Then Kisame regains consciousness and to make sure no information can be retrieved, he bites off his own tongue, committing suicide.
Naruto 507 Trivia: In the Shonen Jump magazine, Viz rendered Guy’s name as “Mighty Guy” in some of the earlier chapters; this was changed back to “Maito Gai” in most of the graphic novel stories, and later changed to “Might Guy” when the guidebooks were released.
the actual manga is now out…..